So, Bioshock...

[Scuzz]

I think part of the problem with the combat is the nature and environment of the game. You are basically surrounded by crazy manic people who don't act rational, and the game wants you to feel that via sounds and thru the quick actions of your antagonists. But it does make combat a very quick and instinctive thing. You rarely get to plan an attack, except for maybe on a Big Daddy.

I have arrived at a part of the game that I remember being a bitch. It is the fight in Dr. Lombard's office after you release the cure into the air. Gawd I remember hating that the first time I played.

By the way, for your info, the first time I played Bioshock I played for 48 hours according to steam. If I remember right I had a hell of a time at the start of the game figuring things out.

[GreenGoo]

I have arrived at a part of the game that I remember being a bitch. It is the fight in Dr. Lombard's office after you release the cure into the air. Gawd I remember hating that the first time I played.

I had a lot of trouble the first time through there too, although I may have been playing on a harder difficulty than I am now. This time I just hacked all the turrets, and then just shot them all in the face. I think I lured one to a big daddy so he'd turn hostile and beat the splicers up a bit too.

When I say that combat is quick in Bioshock, I mean it's fast to start, fast to fight, fast to end. Combat comes in these very manic bursts that only last a few seconds at a time (mostly). Combat is regularly over for me, barring a scripted encounter, in about 10-15 seconds. The biggest challenge is trying to take no damage. It's not that I can't take damage, I have a full complement of health kits, a full wallet, several vending machines and a health machine all hacked and ready to go. It's just that trying to kill everything before I get hit adds to the combat.

I keep mentioning the difficulty level I play on because I'm fairly sure that a harder difficulty level would change the combat to be more challenging. I'd change it, but I don't expect the extra challenge to be much extra fun, so I leave it.

Combat in the new Doom is much faster in terms of movement, dodging, enemy movement and shots, but you are much faster too, and you have room to move as a lot of the areas are much wider open than in Bioshock. Of course Bioshock is almost a decade older, so if there were tech limitations, that could very well be part of it.

I'm still playing Bioshock. I'm hoping to finish. eventually. My play is pretty sporadic though. I play for like 15-30 minutes at a time, every 3 days or so.

[NickAragua]

Yeah, I don't remember being terribly impressed with the combat in that game. I agree with the assessment that, once you find a set of weapons and plasmids that works for you, there's little incentive to try anything else. So, I spent the whole game using lightning and the shotgun. With lightning shells. And hacking turrets/bots when I could. There are a couple of sections where you have to defend an area, that's when you'll wish you'd gotten more practice with mines and traps and whatever. Or just crouch behind a corner and use the shotgun to blast everyone who comes around it.

I actually played Bioshock Infinite some time ago (got it for free on the XBox 360), and it improves on the combat quite a bit. There are a lot of large, open areas, with many tactical options. Too bad that the best tactical option is (90% of the time) to camp out in a corner with a sniper rifle and shoot people in the head. Unfortunately, the storyline is hard to follow (and I pride myself on being able to follow the plot generally) and kind of stupid/annoying/creepy when it's not.

[Rumpy]

I think part of the problem with the combat is the nature and environment of the game. You are basically surrounded by crazy manic people who don't act rational, and the game wants you to feel that via sounds and thru the quick actions of your antagonists. But it does make combat a very quick and instinctive thing. You rarely get to plan an attack, except for maybe on a Big Daddy.

Yeah, I think you touch on why I don't like it very much. I get what they were going for, with the tight spaces, as it's all part of the setting and what they do with it, but as others point out, some games have done that kind of thing in a much better way. And the combat being the way it is, is actually making it more difficult than it should technically be. I think my favourite plasmid was electricity?

With my slog through the Rapture, I wasn't wanting to return for the sequel and also Infinite. In general, I just didn't find it all that interesting.

[Scuzz]

Well, I think the easiest way to kill an enemy is to freeze them with a plasmid and then blow them to pieces with the shotgun. But enemies killed that way don't leave any bling.

[TheMix]

I was partial to setting them on fire and watching them burn.

Shock was also fun.

I'd have done more freezing (which may be the most effective), but, as noted, no bling.

I wasn't very satisfied with the bees. I dabbled very briefly with the trap. It's a blast to watch in action.

I think my biggest complaint is being limited to swapping them out only at specific points. That kept me from experimenting. There are some that are perfect in specific situations that you wouldn't want to run around with the rest of the time (and therefore "lose" one of your slots). I also think they should have randomized the first plasmid you get. You quickly get used to/familiar with Shock... so there doesn't seem any reason to swap it out.

[GreenGoo]

So the lead splicers are getting tougher. They either have armour or more hp or something. The rest seem to be relatively the same.

I enjoy the bees, and with a maxed out research, even the basic bees do good damage. fire and run away, fire and run away. I just recently got my hands on bees 2 and I watched them eat some splicers very quickly. I don't recommend fire and bees though. Bees 2 even did noticable damage to a big daddy, which is a surprise. Nothing but grenades normally make a dent on them.

It's been harder to finish a fight without taking damage, which is making things more interesting. Also, I'll be the first one to admit that my constant quick saving makes a significant difference in how the game plays out.

[TheMix]

Try the crossbolt traps for Big Daddies. That can be fun. When I could, I'd set up a line of those and proximity grenades. You can take down a Big Daddy without firing a shot (well... obviously you need at least one shot to get his attention).

This may be a silly question, but you are using the camera, correct? It provides significant bonuses over time.

[GreenGoo]

I enjoy the bees, and with a maxed out research, even the basic bees do good damage.

Yep. The camera is one of the things I like about the game.

[gbasden]

I actually played Bioshock Infinite some time ago (got it for free on the XBox 360), and it improves on the combat quite a bit. There are a lot of large, open areas, with many tactical options. Too bad that the best tactical option is (90% of the time) to camp out in a corner with a sniper rifle and shoot people in the head. Unfortunately, the storyline is hard to follow (and I pride myself on being able to follow the plot generally) and kind of stupid/annoying/creepy when it's not.

You take that back!

Infinite is easily in my 5 favorite plotlines of all time. I think it's absolutely brilliant.

[Smoove_B]

I played the first two and thought they were generally overrated. I absolutely loved Bioshock Infinite - what a difference a story makes.

[Rumpy]

Hmm, is Infinite really that different? I admit, when it first came out, I was interested in it, but that dampened when I got to playing the first one. If it really is that different, then maybe the change in scenery would help. From what I've seen, it's a much more colourful game.

[Daehawk]

I felt it was the same game Id played twice before just with slightly different characters and a flying city rather than an underwater one. But I only played it once. I started it and was about 3 days from finishing it when my little dog of 15 years passed away. Was so difficult hearing the music in the game and just finishing it without him in my lap I just have never been able to do it again. So maybe I missed a lot or forgot a lot.

[Scuzz]

I pretty much finished up Fort Frolic last night. It is weird how you remember parts of games and I did remember how hectic things could get there. I feel like I cheated in killing Cohen though, just after he appeared I shot him, not realizing it was him, (I missed a free plasmid because of that I think) and then a Big Daddy walked by. I used "Enrage" on the Big Daddy and he destroyed Cohen.

I still need to take one more walk around to see if there is anything I missed though.

[GreenGoo]

So I made it to Ryan's office and spoke with him. While I know in general how the game plays out, I've managed to avoid specific spoilers for 10 freakin' years, so I'm enjoying the story.

spoilers in case there is someone else like me that somehow doesn't know the details of the game. I managed to avoid the Cake is a Lie for like 5 years too, for reference.

Spoiler:

I don't think I knew about the conditioning, although I knew Altas was not who he appeared to be. I think I knew that I was not who I thought I was either, but as for who we were, I wasn't sure. I thought I might be fontaine somehow.

Despite Ryan's speech at the end, there wasn't any choice involved. Use the key, stop the self destruct. There was nothing else I could do. Even without the conditioning, I probably would have used the key. I was in a self destructing city. I assume I would want to live and not destruct, and the key was the easiest way for that to happen.

In any case, I have not finished the game yet, so I'll keep my eyes and ears closed until I have. Probably only a few more hours if I hurry, but I don't like to hurry, so it might take a week.

[GreenGoo]

Got my second dose of Lot 192.

Feels like I'm in the home stretch.

[GreenGoo]

Escort mission accomplished. Now it's just me or him.

I'm fully decked out. I took a quick swing at it but bailed when my kids needed something. Will change my plasmids around given what I know about the fight now.

[Baroquen]

I remember when Infinite came out and all the positive buzz got me hyped about the game. Didn't like it much. Felt more like a slog, and I wasn't wowed by the story like others. I think I liked the first one more, as an overall game. (Yet to finish the second). I'm a heretic, I know.

[GreenGoo]

Probably took me 5 years and at least 3 tries, maybe 4, to get this far. I believe this is the end of the game, so I should finish tonight. Which will be a huge deal for me to finally get through it.

[GreenGoo]

And done.

These are the longest credits in the history of credits, past or future. Edit: Game was pausing them when I alt-tabbed out.

I was nice to the little sisters, fyi. So I got the ending that was happy.

Hilariously, I thought the Director's commentary would spoiler things as I played, so I didn't even click on most of them. Which means they aren't available to me. Oh well.

I did enjoy the museum of orphaned concepts though. That was neat.

[Rumpy]

And even then, it wasn't much of a happy ending...

[GreenGoo]

And even then, it wasn't much of a happy ending...

Considering what the possible endings might have been, it seems pretty happy to me. I mean, it is literally "...and everyone lived happily ever after". Well, the ones you didn't murder along the way.

[Rumpy]

Well, from what I remember, the imagery is a stark contrast to that. So, while it may have said everyone lived happily, the imagery seems to indicate a darker turn, which is how it conveys some of that morality.

[GreenGoo]

Well, from what I remember, the imagery is a stark contrast to that. So, while it may have said everyone lived happily, the imagery seems to indicate a darker turn, which is how it conveys some of that morality.

Spoiler:

Nope. It is literally you and the little sisters are free and have happy, normal lives. It ends with you dying of old age, with the little sisters also older, at your bedside, holding your hand as you pass. The implication is that you lived out your life as a normal person and died of natural causes. As for the little sisters, it explicitly says they lived, loved and laughed, thanks to you

Did you harvest any little sisters? I did not.

[Scuzz]

I finished the game last night as well. I had played it before, probably 8-9 years ago and had forgotten the final fight and the ending. Once I got the right combo of plasmid and weapon he went down pretty easily.

I would say the ending I got your ending, which was a happy ending. As happy as any ending could have been from the mess that was Rapture.

36 hours this time, down from 48 in my first play thru.

[Rumpy]

Well, from what I remember, the imagery is a stark contrast to that. So, while it may have said everyone lived happily, the imagery seems to indicate a darker turn, which is how it conveys some of that morality.

Spoiler:

Nope. It is literally you and the little sisters are free and have happy, normal lives. It ends with you dying of old age, with the little sisters also older, at your bedside, holding your hand as you pass. The implication is that you lived out your life as a normal person and died of natural causes. As for the little sisters, it explicitly says they lived, loved and laughed, thanks to you

Did you harvest any little sisters? I did not.

Honestly, it's been so long, I can't remember. Maybe one or two when the game was giving me pointers? But that's not a goal I was trying to achieve. I guess that's another problem I have with it. It's so arbitrary.

[Isgrimnur]

Ending guide

[Rumpy]

Yep, looks like I got the first ending. But I thought I had remembered saving most of them. The thing is, 1 & 2 are too similar. In fact, what is said in the narration is the same. So, if you messed up once or twice by harvesting one or two, you get a bad ending. So, yeah, if I already didn't like it very much and ended up getting a shitty ending, it's no wonder I didn't have a good overall impression of it.

[GreenGoo]

I've got #2 all set up to install overnight tonight. I'll take a look around, see if it grabs me or not. I don't own #3.

[Scuzz]

I've got #2 all set up to install overnight tonight. I'll take a look around, see if it grabs me or not. I don't own #3.

I think it begins kinda the same but there is an obvious change that takes place. I didn't enjoy 2 as much, maybe because I went straight into it after 1 the first time and they are too much alike. The endings are quite different though.

I am planning on skipping 2 this time and going to Infinity next. But not until I play Fallout 4 first. After that if I feel like doing 2 first I may do that.

[Scuzz]

Yep, looks like I got the first ending. But I thought I had remembered saving most of them. The thing is, 1 & 2 are too similar. In fact, what is said in the narration is the same. So, if you messed up once or twice by harvesting one or two, you get a bad ending. So, yeah, if I already didn't like it very much and ended up getting a shitty ending, it's no wonder I didn't have a good overall impression of it.

Lots of games do that now though. The Dragon Age series, I think some Fallout games have 2 endings, Dark Souls 3 has three endings.

[TheMix]

The second one is more like a 1.5. Reminds of the second STALKER game. More like an expansion than it's own game. That said, I still enjoyed them. And if I ever get my computer back, I'll probably continue my replay of the series.

[Rumpy]

Yep, looks like I got the first ending. But I thought I had remembered saving most of them. The thing is, 1 & 2 are too similar. In fact, what is said in the narration is the same. So, if you messed up once or twice by harvesting one or two, you get a bad ending. So, yeah, if I already didn't like it very much and ended up getting a shitty ending, it's no wonder I didn't have a good overall impression of it.

Lots of games do that now though. The Dragon Age series, I think some Fallout games have 2 endings, Dark Souls 3 has three endings.

Multiple endings are great. I don't begrudge them. I just wish things were a little greyer at times.

[GreenGoo]

Ok, I didn't know that you play a big daddy in #2. That has potential.

[GreenGoo]

Weird. Both 1 and 2 Bioshocks received a patch over 1 gig today.

What the hell needs patching that takes over a gig of information some 10 years after release? Well, it's the remastered edition, so more recent than that. I guess I could go looking for patch notes.

edit: Apparently it's stability and bug fixes. Holy crap.

[Scuzz]

So they patched them with the enhanced version? Are you on steam? Steam will give you the enhanced version of games when they come out but they don't load over your original game.

I tried the enhanced version of Bioshock 1 off steam and I had graphic problems and ended up just playing the original version. the slightly better look of the enhanced version didn't make up for the chunks of missing verbage. Anytime the game showed script on the screen letters were missing or jumbled.

[GreenGoo]

I've only got the enhanced editions of both 1&2 installed.

I played all the way through 1 with no graphical issues, although I did find dark corners and such unreasonably dark and lacking detail.

It's possible playing with brightness might have helped, but that sort of defeats the purpose of darkened areas.

I didn't see anything about graphics fixes in the patch notes, but I didn't pay much attention.

[hentzau]

I played Bioshock Infinite when it was released on the Xbox 360, and loved the hell out of it. Really loved the story, was completely engaged throughout. But I never finished it, because I couldn't get past (what I assume is/was) the end battle on Comstock's Zeppelin with the songbird and the Vox zeppelins. Got so dammed frustrated with that fight that I just finally quit out of spite.

Fast forward to today. I got the itch to revisit the world, and i found myself replaying the damn game right up to this very same fight, and I still can't get past it. Frustrates me to no end. And yes, I'm playing it on Easy. I'm old and I suck.

I'd really like to see the ending of this thing, but I'm not sure my psyche can take the repetitive abuse.

[Daehawk]

I dont even remember the fight now. Have you watched videos on it? Maybe there some strategy you're missing.

EDIT: Looking it up I sorta remember it and I also remember it being a pain on normal.

Found this if you want to watch it and spoil it some...

[Daehawk]

Considering a replay of Infinite. I think its been long enough time to where I can do it. Btu Im thinking I should play all Bioshocks again...1 2 and 3 instead of just firing up 3. If I do Ill go all evil and take all the little sisters down with me instead of allowing them to live. It should be easier on me if I have plenty of plasmids or whatever the stuff is. Usually Im all nice and make it tough on me by allowing them to live.