XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - Now talking about the new WOTC Long War Mod

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:48 pm

Yeah, the Workshop cost is apparently ridiculous in WoTC compared to the base game and that's where the complaint is. I'm going to try to do without it. I just finished mission 2 and got a new engineer.

I got some promotions and took Phantom for my ranger. It just looks too good to pass up. I found some loot on a dead alien during the mission which I was able to pick up so that's something new. I like it.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:46 pm

I'm pretty sure you're absolutely guaranteed to get at least 1 engineer early. You can't excavate without an engineer and if the game relied on RNG to give you you're first engineer, you could be waiting for much too long, hindering your base development, setting you back much farther than the scripted campaign expects, increasing the difficulty significantly.

I don't know this is true but I suspect it is.

edit: Just went and looked up the workshop cost in vanilla Xcom 2. It looks like it was 100 supplies, plus another 50 to upgrade, maybe? I know the cost is 250 supplies in WotC, so that's a pretty huge increase. Not sure what the upgrade cost is as I haven't gotten that far yet, and didn't bother looking it up.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:07 pm

Lost 1 of 2 dudes on a covert op. They were ambushed and I blew the extraction as I was unsure what was happening or what to expect. Also, grenades are a bad idea when you only have 2 soldiers and are in a city infested with zombies. You would think they would be ideal in that situation, but no.

Last dude made it out with only a couple of wounds, so...good enough. I didn't reload. Other dude was only a squaddie (corporal?) anyway.

I think that's 2 dudes lost now. 1 was a rookie on the very first mission, and now this dude. I'm starting to wonder if I set the difficulty correctly. A few missions that I expected to be tougher were a bit easy. Rescuing Mox was unreasonably easy, but maybe I just got lucky with the path I took to him. Plus it's scripted so I assume the game wants you to succeed, which is why it is easier than other missions.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:17 pm

The resistance mission "cards" or whatever that system is orders are a bit confusing. Hidden face dude will take a mission card, but both the skirmishers and the reapers are locked (edit: and now the templars) I assume I need better relations with them, but I'm unsure how to do that. Again, I assume there are faction specific missions that build rep or something?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:06 pm

Oh, that sharpshooter I lost during the ambush evac? You're immortal in our hearts, Fretmute.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:12 am

Ok, first reload of the game. Freakin' lancer ran halfway across the map then crit and killed my first and only level 1 Templar.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Nope.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:07 am

The big thing for WotC is that you're potentially facing three unique recurring bosses and the Alien Rulers, if you enable them all. It's a hefty challenge, but yields a lot of nice equipment that makes the end-game easier.

I tend to focus heavy on weapons and ammo before armor, to better punch through alien defenses, and agree that Engineers are essential - clearing rooms and building quick. I don't mind my research going a little slower as it means you have to play longer, which is fine with me.

This is all vague recall from a long time ago, though. I've been slowly chewing through the Legacy missions. Only once I've hit the achievements for those do I plan to move on to a new campaign - either ironman/commander or normal/legendary. Both are achievements I've yet to get.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:37 am

Last night I got offered a 'breakthrough' research for +1 sniper rifles (5 days). After some agonizing I decided to accept it and defer other research for that time. Hopefully, that was the right choice.

Then I was offered a 6 day 'investigation' task on the geoscope which lead to 2 new rookies being recruited. This 'investigation' stuff appears to be something new as I don't recall that being in the previous game. After that I was offered another 6 day investigation that leads to an engineer so I jumped on that. After only a day however, a cut scene popped up with the Reapers and I was forced into doing the "lost and abandoned' mission and had to drop the investigation. No choice was given. I'm hoping that once I finish that mission I can go back to the investigation I was doing previously for the engineer. If not, that would really suck.

I'm building the GTC as my first room. The Resistance Ring wasn't even available to choose. There was another facility they want me to build instead as part of the main story line but I didn't choose that. Hopefully, that won't bite me.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:28 am

ColdSteel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:37 am Last night I got offered a 'breakthrough' research for +1 sniper rifles (5 days). After some agonizing I decided to accept it and defer other research for that time. Hopefully, that was the right choice.

It's certainly worth it if the upgrade lasts through each version of Sniper Rifle you'll be using. With one or two snipers each mission, often firing many times - using things like Kill Zone - this bonus stacks up...

I wouldn't pass it up. I'm okay with a slower paced game that results in more missions, so extra research never bothers me.

Doing the "Beat the game by July 1st" achievement is going to require some intense discipline and following a strict guide.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:11 pm

Yeah, I'm partial to snipers to start with so that made me decide to research it. I liked to run 2 of them with different skills in the first game. They were killing machines. I already have 2 of them in WoTC, one of which has 'gifted' combat intelligence, whatever that means.

I just finished Lost and Abandoned. What a long (but fun) mission. I was glad I brought 2 rookies because they both got promoted afterwards (one ended up a sniper and the other a ranger). The assassin at the end was some ridiculous BS though. I sure hope there aren't that many early missions where you have to fight those. They seem unstoppable.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:30 pm

Yeah, the Assassins are unpleasant.The main thing that helps with them is getting squad size upgrades ASAP, and keeping your guys close together (but not too close because of area attacks) so you can wake people up when they get dazed.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:38 pm

Oh great, my first retaliation strike mission (which I assume is like the old terror missions) and all my best troops are tired. I'm going to have to bring a few rookies and this could get ugly fast.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:46 pm

Here's a reddit thread where they talk about build order, Coldsteel.

reddit wotc base build order

edit: Base layout thread
reddit talks about optimal base layout

It has some decent discussion of why they choose certain buildings over other buildings. Enough anyway to let you make your own decision. I think you're past GTS&Resistance Ring (RR), but there is some discussion of what to do past that.

You'll note that no one mentions a workshop.

Oddly however, there is talk of building a lab and/or rushing a lab. I have no idea why you would want to do that. In vanilla Xcom 2, the lab just acts as another scientist. If you have 1 scientist and no lab, research times are cut by 50%. If you have 2 scientists, research time is cut by 67%. In vanilla, if you have 1 scientist and a lab, your research time is cut by 67%. That made labs a complete waste of precious building space. In WotC I'm hearing more than one person talk about rushing labs. I don't know if "lab" refers to something else or if they've changed the lab functionality, but it bears more investigating.

edit: Since you guys seemed to like the reddit thread, I've added one about optimal layout. tl;dr version - don't sweat it, it doesn't really matter much.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:01 pm

Best post from that thread.

Reddit wrote:Sectoids first, then snakes, Fellow Humans, and Mutons.

If XCOM ever skullfucks one of your troops, research the computer strippers and deploy them IMMEDIATELY.

Try to trick XCOM into assaulting alien leader dens ASAP for heroes.

In midgame, deploy bugs.

Wait to deploy gatekeepers and sectopods til late game, cuz that's when XCOM starts sending out those bullshit cheap-ass one-shotting power rangers.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:01 pm

ColdSteel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:38 pm Oh great, my first retaliation strike mission (which I assume is like the old terror missions) and all my best troops are tired. I'm going to have to bring a few rookies and this could get ugly fast.

There are active resistance fighters that don't stay alive very long, but they tend to do a lot of damage before they die.

Aliens will prioritize resistance fighters, then civilians, then you. At least in the first mission. You should be able to move farther and take less cover (not less than 1/2 (low?) cover though). Obviously, triggering pods of aliens is a risk. Just not necessarily to you. You need to kill enough aliens before they all focus fire the civvies to death.

Also, there is a civvie infiltrator among the people you need to rescue. When you get close to the civvies, he'll activate and transform into a blobby humanoid thing. He's all melee so you can often focus fire him down before he reaches you. Of course if you activate him with the last move of your turn, he's probably gonna eat someone's lunch. He hits hard and at this stage of the game, you don't have armour yet (just the vest for +1 hp, if you bothered). he can definitely 1 shot your guys, but it's not guaranteed. He misses semi-regularly even on commander and sometimes doesn't do enough damage to kill outright. Still, be careful, keep soldiers with action points in reserve, and try to activate him on the first move of your turn, then pull back if you can, or blast him hard at close range and then follow up with the rest of your team.

The other parts of the mission are just regular baddies from this far in the game. Sectoids and Advent. There might be 1 or 2 lancers in there, I don't recall, so keep an eye out for melee. Melee is scary at this stage of the game, but you're mostly ranged, so if done right the melee never reach your guys. Note that they can use 2 movement points THEN attack, so they have wicked long range. They will often suicide themselves, leaving themselves exposed without cover, just to get a solid hit or kill in. Don't let them. Also at this stage of the game, the best case scenario with a sectoid is to have it use it's psy-powers on you. I don't think it can mind control you yet, but even if it can, it gives you a free turn without being fired upon by the sectoid. This might seem counter-intuitive, but your soldiers are so weak at this stage that even a sectoid's gun can kill you. This is more true at the higher difficulty levels and less true at the lower ones, as soldiers' starting hp varies by difficulty level.

You might panic because your civvies are getting slaughtered. You need to be concerned and not dawdle, but don't panic. There are a LOT of civvies, and you don't need all of them for a flawless mission. Keep that in mind. The life of one soldier is worth all the civvies on the map, especially if you play Ironman.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:03 pm

*sniff* I like workshops, because I never have enough engineers.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:03 pm

PSA: Use CTRL+mouse button (whichever is the right one. I forget) to assign movement waypoints to your soldiers. You can move them around sight zones or force specfic paths by doing this, and often still get to where you want them. It's useful. If you *don't* need a specific path, I'd avoid using it, as I'm never sure if I'm wasting mobility points whereas the game will normally give you the most efficient paths.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:04 pm

Thanks, that thread is pretty helpful. I have 2 engineers and 1 scientist now with a day left in my first month. I have both engineers clearing out debris in rooms and will be building the RR next.

I'm curious about the lab now as well. Let us know if you find out anything.

The resistance strike mission went well. It was a lot easier than I thought. It was in Assassin territory so I was really worried one would show up to the party but nope. I only needed to bring one rookie and she got in a few kills and was promoted to specialist afterwards, which is great because I only had one of those. Now I have 2 of everything except grenadier (and reaper, of course). I even picked up a laser mod and another datapad, which was a nice bonus.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:07 pm

ColdSteel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:04 pm I only needed to bring one rookie and she got in a few kills and was promoted to specialist afterwards, which is great because I only had one of those.

Congrats on the mission!

The game tends to give you what you're short of, but not always, and late game you don't want to be using rookies or even squaddies, so it's up to you to keep the right balance of soldiers alive.

I tend to be short rangers, as I tend to use them overly aggressively and they pay the price for it.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:08 pm

ColdSteel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:38 pm Oh great, my first retaliation strike mission (which I assume is like the old terror missions) and all my best troops are tired. I'm going to have to bring a few rookies and this could get ugly fast.

Around tired soldiers - I kept my groups diverse by always bringing a couple of my best and at least one of my weakest soldiers on every mission (unless I thought it was going to be nasty - like Retaliations). I played more risky with the lower-tier soldiers (scouting, daring moves) and keep the big guns safer. I tried to avoid fielding a full team of elites, just because I didn't want them all tired at the same time.

I know you don't get much choice early on, but it pays big in the long run to work up the guys in the back rows. It's nice to have your "weakest" in the roster be a Corporal or Sergeant.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:13 pm

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:08 pm I know you don't get much choice early on, but it pays big in the long run to work up the guys in the back rows. It's nice to have your "weakest" in the roster be a Corporal or Sergeant.

I play this way normally, so I don't mind the tired mechanic, but I can see how it would be frustrating for those that take the exact same soldiers on every mission. On Ironman, you're gonna lose guys due to randomness or just sloppy play (I try not to play Ironman while tired), and if you don't have bench players, you're gonna have a bad day.

I'd say the early game is ideal for leveling rookies. Anything later and they have trouble hitting anything and especially killing anything, which is where a lot of xp comes from.

That said, you need a sargeant asap for the extra soldier slot in your squad, so I'd keep playing your vets as much as is reasonably until you have a sgt. The next slot is at captain but that's a ways away usually, unless you really farm exp on a single soldier, but even then you can only be promoted once per mission.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:37 pm

Something else a new player should know, is that if you have enough of a single corpse type in your inventory, you can research that autopsy instantly. Below are the numbers for vanilla. They may have changed for WotC but I somehow doubt it. There is almost zero times that you need to research a corpse before you have enough of them to do so instantly. Perhaps the early story based research, like the advent officer, but even then I'm not sure that's true if the list below is complete, then yes, you need to research advent officer corpse as it doesn't seem to trigger instant research, as per the list below. For the rest, I wouldn't research any corpse that wasn't instant, unless I had run out of things to research that aren't corpses.

edit: Apparently they have changed it for wotc, and it varies by difficulty level as well, or at least it increases at legendary difficulty. I'm gonna spoiler the list. Consider it for vanilla only. You can still just collect corpses until it's instant.

Vanilla corpses numbers for instant research.

Spoiler:

Oddly, I haven't been able to find a list for WotC yet.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:45 pm

What exactly are the negative ramifications of having a soldier captured?

A friend asked me to ask you.

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:05 pm

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:45 pm What exactly are the negative ramifications of having a soldier captured?

If I understand it correctly, it increases the amount of Intel that the Chosen gains about XCOM. The longer they stay captured, the more they get. So you need to get them rescued ASAP.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:14 pm

ColdSteel wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:05 pm
GreenGoo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:45 pm What exactly are the negative ramifications of having a soldier captured?
If I understand it correctly, it increases the amount of Intel that the Chosen gains about XCOM. The longer they stay captured, the more they get. So you need to get them rescued ASAP.

Sure, but what does "intel" mean in this case? Closer to starting an assault mission against the Avenger? End of the game? What?

In any case my friend pussed out and reloaded so that he didn't have to deal with it. This time around, the chosen summoned a spectral army (only 1 advent in this case, at this level) and 2 faceless showed up that he didn't have to deal with after the kidnapping last time, but everyone was dispatched with no casualties/damage.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:27 pm

Brian "metalhed" gets a promo. He's testing out our new magrifles, and apparently they do the job. For now.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:30 pm

Go me!!

I like the stay low, kill first part but I'm way too old to go fast. That's why I usually try to make my namesake a sniper. Much prefer to kill from a distance (where I can be comfortable) than all that run and gun stuff the younger guys are so good at.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:01 pm

I tend to have specific ideas about who gets to be what, but they are more guidelines than rules.

If you're a rookie and the game decides you're a ranger, as was the case here, so be it.

I have 2 different versions of myself (younger, douchier me, and older, nerdier me) and those 2 are a ranger and a specialist if I get any say in the matter.

I can't help but notice that most of us wear glasses, and a larger than expected number of us have beards.

I've also created a few characters. I've done Pickett's character from the matrix, a Jason vorhees character, and I think I downloaded a Sarah Connor character.

They all give the soldiers some personality that would otherwise be missing with the generic, default, randomly generated characters. I don't have any of the cosmetic dlcs. Those would probably help too.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:59 pm

Ok, found the lab stuff. This thread seems to explain it fairly well.

reddit discussion of wotc lab benefits

Here is the lab details from the ini file. Note I've cut and pasted them from the thread, not the actual file. It's possible that the file no longer matches this due to patches and whatnot.

Lab ini Entry wrote: MaxBreakthroughTechTimerHours[0]=840
MaxBreakthroughTechTimerHours[1]=840
MaxBreakthroughTechTimerHours[2]=840
MaxBreakthroughTechTimerHours[3]=1176
BreakthroughLaboratoryModifier=0.75
BreakthroughResistanceOrderModifier=0.5

These numbers are explained by the post that follows:

so what this is saying is that at max, every 840 hours you should be getting a new breakthrough (1176 hours if its on legendary) and if you get a lab, you should get one every 630 hours.

All the details aren't here, but I believe that it means that there is a maximum amount of time between research breakthroughs. i.e. you are guaranteed a breakthrough every 840 hours below Legendary difficulty. This implies that you can get them more often, and definitively states that you can't get them less often. With a lab, you reduce the maximum amount of time between breakthroughs to 630 hours. That's more than a week's reduction per breakthrough. Over the length of a game that is a significant increase.

Is this all the lab does? I don't know. Still looking.

edit: There are references to increased breakthrough chances, but I'm unsure if they are just referring to the numbers above or not.
edit: A developer did say that a staffed lab counts as 2 scientists as far as speeding up research goes. Which is to say that the lab is exactly as it was in Xcom2 pre-wotc for research purposes.
edit: After more looking, I'm going to assume that the lab only does 2 things: counts as 1 scientist for reducing research time and reduces time between breakthroughs. Is that enough to warrant building it? Up to you. Depends on how valuable you feel breakthroughs are, I suppose. They are ruled by the RNG however, so it would be tough getting consistent performance from game to game.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:24 am

Ok, I pulled the # of corpses for free autopsies from the .ini myself. This is only for Commander difficulty as I didn't compare the numbers to the other difficulties. Chances are everything but Legendary are the same. I'm only doing this because I was in the .ini's looking for laboratory info and stumbled across these.

You get an instant autopsy when you have this many of each alien corpse. You are only offered an instant autopsy if you have the right number of corpses when your current project finishes. I've spoilered it in case some people don't like to see the inner workings of the game.

Spoiler:

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:32 am

Pulled a Gold Medal out of my ass on It Came From the Sea. The last mission...

Spoiler:

I've got my elite team of bad-asses, but the objective says nothing about killing anything. Just place explosives and evac. Easy. I've got the points - I really only need to win and get out to get the Gold. I decide I want to try a different route than smashing everything. After all, the previous mission was a bear with 26 enemies - and all of them needed to be killed (18 of them were Chrysallids) - and I eeked out with 4 wounded, no dead. We head up the closest zone wall, staying in cover, and can see the objective - in the open, no hostiles. Super easy. I didn't even see an enemy on the way there, let alone need to avoid anyone. Central runs up to the waypoint while others take up light defensive positions - just enough to be in cover if anything comes around a corner.

It worked well. Right up until the fish next to the objective morphed into a Faceless and broke our cover. Perfect. Central is right next to it and annihilates it with a free Blademaster strike. He places the explosives and we back off towards the opposite wall we came in on, hoping to get to extraction using the same technique - hug the wall, avoid a fight. 5 turns to get there. Only now we're in the open, no cover. As an added bonus, after we all move up two Chrysallids leap out of the water nearby. They died quickly to Overwatch fire. I wasn't expecting a sudden time crunch and the great plan has come undone.

4 Turns. We fall back again towards the extraction, but not sprinting. It becomes clear that there's no way there for all of us - not outrunning Chrysallids the whole way - plus running through whatever mess I ignored coming in. I look at the list of objectives. Place the explosives. Get at least one soldier to Evac. I look at Central. We know he lives, right? I don't have the points to suffer a team wipe and get the Gold, but I don't have any options left. I could restart the mission and take a 5000 point penalty, or I can see how it plays out. More Chrysallids and a Faceless drop to Overwatch.

3 Turns. I look at how far Central can run. He can almost make it to Evac at a full sprint. Almost. My Psionic still has her Inspire ready, and my Skirmisher still has his. It should only take +1 action to get him there and get out. We do that, and buff Central for the run. As I'm trying to move him into the Evac zone, there are a number of spots he can't move to. That means there's hostiles right on the Evac. He makes the run and it looks like he triggers every enemy pod on the map. A Sectopod, a Gatekeeper, a couple Avatars, a Codex, a Muton, and a couple more Chrysallids are suddenly aware of my location... As a parting gesture, Central brings a Chrysallid down to 1 health, on fire, with a Blademaster strike as it moves towards him. He grimly salutes the team, and lifts off the field. Someone needs to live to tell the tale. My other soldiers take up whatever defenses they can, and my Psionic is stuck in a forward position with no movement left.

2 Turns. More Chrysallids burst from the water and run at us, falling to Overwatch fire. The Codex warps over and knocks out all of our defensive power by emptying our guns. The Gatekeeper moves up and takes a pot-shot at the Sniper and misses, but she returns fire with her pistol and dings it. I see flashes of enemies moving up. The team falls back - with no real cover left. We can't stay in the blast zone of the Codex's little present. Everyone reloads except the two who were in the clear, and they Overwatch.

1 Turn. More Chrysallids from the water. We don't kill them both. The Gatekeeper moves up and de-shells. Shit. He drops a huge bomb on my squad, cutting four people in half. An Avatar finds us and Dominates my Templar. It could be worse. I see a Muton take up a distant defensive position. Another Chrysallid leaps onto a shipping container. The Codex teleports and makes a flanking shot on my Specialist but misses. That could have been fatal. I still have 11,500 points to spare. I can lose 2 of those wounded soldiers... and that's assuming the ones on the field aren't considered dead when the X4 goes off. I'm still hoping I won't need to restart. The team kills the last nearby Chrysallid. I disable the Templar with Stasis. Everyone else is on Overwatch.

0 Turns. The camera jumps to a high view and the bomb explodes. I'm in mild disbelief as I see the victory play out. I killed 9 enemies, had 4 wounded, and 0 dead. I silently high-five myself in my head.

If I ever do this mission again, I'm going right down the middle and clearing a path to the objective. I was not amused when the Evac zone appeared in the middle of the map near the other side.

I do like the Legacy rewards so far. Not unbalanced, but nice.

Spoiler:

ColdSteel · Post by **ColdSteel** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:46 am

This game certainly throws a lot of events, information, and decisions at you. I'm in the middle of month 2 and it's becoming a deluge. I don't recall another strategy game that throws quite as much at you. It's hard sometimes to tell where to focus your priorities. A project Avatar counter has popped up. I assume that's some kind of doomsday counter I'll need to deal with. It's got 3 ticks on it already to start so hopefully further progression is slow but who knows.

I got my first Templar last night. He should be fun to play around with.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:55 am

ColdSteel wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:46 amA project Avatar counter has popped up.

Around the Avatar Project...

Spoiler:

Sidenote... as I progress tediously through the Legacy missions, I've started taking notes on what I encounter and what my scores are at the end of each mission. I wanted to use this as a marking system to determine if my progress was going to be good enough to get a Gold medal, and thus the achievement. I only began enemy counts and notes halfway through the second set of missions, and there's not a lot of detail (enough to jog my memory), but there score milestones for part 1 and 2 now - so you can easily tell if you're doing well enough as you move through to hit the Gold at the end or not. I can post this if anyone's interested.

I maintain that Nightmare is the appropriate method for them still. It offers more kills, equating to more points, equating to more leeway for injuries/deaths and fewer Early Bird scores. It's just a real pain in the ass getting through the early missions... which I ended up basically memorizing.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:16 am

ColdSteel wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:46 am This game certainly throws a lot of events, information, and decisions at you. I'm in the middle of month 2 and it's becoming a deluge.

I'm noticing this too and I think it's because we're playing essentially Xcom 4ish. With the first and it's expansion being 2 and then then Xcom 2 + expansion being another 2. At this point there are so many systems in the game that there is a lot to keep track of, lots happening, and only so much time in a month.

It's not a problem for me, mostly because I'm familiar with everything that isn't new with the expansion, so I only have to work to understand a small portion of it. would not recommend that the 3 people unfamiliar with the Xcom series start with this expansion, that's for sure. I started to really notice just how much stuff is going on when I couldn't finish a scan for weeks because the Avenger kept getting pulled away to some game critical event that couldn't be ignored easily. It was always a challenge to get some scans done in time for the next supply drop and that's doubly true for the expansion. On the plus side, the more I read the more I'm reassured that supplies aren't in short...supply.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:33 am

I was curious about build order and wasn't sure if power placement was an issue like in Vanilla. Seems like it isn't. Was rushing to clear out a middle space for power.

I found infirmary helpful since my guys come back wounded most times and infirmary gets them back out fast (i posted earlier that I disabled tired, because I ain't got time for that).

I think my biggest revelation about WOTC is that my firepower is way weak early game for the number and health of the enemies they throw at you. I'm barely denting them and not increasing gunpower fast enough. Relying heavy on grenades.

I do love the hero units though. It reminds me of RTS that have hero units.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:45 am

Jag wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:33 am I was curious about build order and wasn't sure if power placement was an issue like in Vanilla. Seems like it isn't. Was rushing to clear out a middle space for power.

I think the "middle space" is best used for a Workshop, hosting Gremlins. These can be sent to adjacent facilities to act as Engineers. It's a short term fix for being understaffed on Engineers. I can't recall if any other rooms have adjacent uses or bonuses.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:08 pm

Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:45 am
Jag wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:33 am I was curious about build order and wasn't sure if power placement was an issue like in Vanilla. Seems like it isn't. Was rushing to clear out a middle space for power.
I think the "middle space" is best used for a Workshop, hosting Gremlins. These can be sent to adjacent facilities to act as Engineers. It's a short term fix for being understaffed on Engineers. I can't recall if any other rooms have adjacent uses or bonuses.

I think only the workshop can do it, but I haven't built one yet. Adjacent means next to, so can it staff above or below?

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:15 pm

Yep, above, below, left, right.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:21 pm

Jag wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:33 amI think my biggest revelation about WOTC is that my firepower is way weak early game for the number and health of the enemies they throw at you. I'm barely denting them and not increasing gunpower fast enough. Relying heavy on grenades.

After a few playthroughs I focusesd my research on getting the gauss weapons first and that's a notable improvement. Sets you back a bit as you aren't able to build some of the facilities and things they want you to build to further the game but it doesn't take too long. My first game I relied on explosives a lot too so don't feel bad.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:47 pm

NickAragua wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:15 pm Yep, above, below, left, right.

Just not diagonally.

Daveman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:21 pmMy first game I relied on explosives a lot too so don't feel bad.

Explosives are the simple key to postponing some research needs early on. In the first XCOM, you were penalized for using explosives in terms of scavenged alien resources. I don't think there's any penalty to spraying grenades like candy in XCOM2.