XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - Now talking about the new WOTC Long War Mod

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GreenGoo
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

New post to summarize:

Uninstalled *all* mods and the scope would still not go on a gun with a laser sight.

Fine. Makes sense, I guess. Has the game always enforced this rule? This is the first time I've come up against it, it seems to me. I would have *never* put the superior laser sight on the gun if I knew I wouldn't be able to put a scope on it later. Oh well.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by MonkeyFinger »

GreenGoo wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:02 pm OO_Peeps+

I believe you need a dropbox account.
FYI - You don't. :wink:
-mf
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

MonkeyFinger wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:53 am
GreenGoo wrote: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:02 pm OO_Peeps+

I believe you need a dropbox account.
FYI - You don't. :wink:
That's even better, although I'm not sure how that works, as you can put permissions on the folder, and permissions would need account info, I would think.

Anyway, I'm glad it's easy! Enjoy! OO'ers are a colourful group, if nothing else.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod »

GreenGoo wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:15 pmFor anyone paying attention, it appears I cannot install a laser sight and a scope on the same weapon. Outside of the realities of having a scope/laser sight on the same weapon, is anyone else having this issue? Is this a base game issue or is a mod screwing with me?
I believe the game puts both items in the same "slot" - like the top rail of your gun. It's a "one or the other" thing. I know logic says you should be able to mount the laser under the barrel and the scope on top - but I think the laser is top-mounted. These two mods are the only ones that conflict in this way. I honestly don't know if it's by design or a bug they've never addressed.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Jag »

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 am New post to summarize:

Uninstalled *all* mods and the scope would still not go on a gun with a laser sight.

Fine. Makes sense, I guess. Has the game always enforced this rule? This is the first time I've come up against it, it seems to me. I would have *never* put the superior laser sight on the gun if I knew I wouldn't be able to put a scope on it later. Oh well.
One of my few mods is replaceable weapon parts. It's not too OP, but it makes it easier not to worry about who is using what.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod »

Jag wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:59 am
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 am New post to summarize:

Uninstalled *all* mods and the scope would still not go on a gun with a laser sight.

Fine. Makes sense, I guess. Has the game always enforced this rule? This is the first time I've come up against it, it seems to me. I would have *never* put the superior laser sight on the gun if I knew I wouldn't be able to put a scope on it later. Oh well.
One of my few mods is replaceable weapon parts. It's not too OP, but it makes it easier not to worry about who is using what.
I believe there's a rare inspired research item that unlocks this normally, but I agree completely with using this mod. It makes about zero sense that you can't unclip a scope from a gun once you put it on.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Paingod wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:23 am
Jag wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:59 am One of my few mods is replaceable weapon part
I believe there's a rare inspired research item that unlocks this normally
There's one to make PCS's reusable too.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

The last chosen, the Hunter, is now down, although I admit to save scumming it twice. I should have been able to finish it without that, but in a moment of weakness I savescummed when one of my guys got hit because of a stupid decision I made, then later 1 of my guys died because of a bad decision I made 3 turns earlier. So that was less satisfying than it could have been.

Crushed a room with 3 mutons and an andromedon, so that felt good. Did it with only 1 Colonel and no Reapers/Templars/Rangers. Even brought 2 specialists, just because.

Did the Codex map coords facility. Had some minor trouble finding the extraction point after and that cost me an extra reinforcement drop, but otherwise it went like clockwork.

So things are moving along. I'm pretty much ready for the end mission as far as my roster and gear, but I still need to grind through some research/missions before I can get there.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

I highly recommend pursuing the "Inside Information" continental bonus if it's feasible in your game, assuming you even have the option. It bumps all weapon upgrades up 1 quality level. Standard extended clips become 2 extra rounds instead of 1. Superior extended clips are now 4 bonus rounds. Superior repeaters become 20% insta-kill. Every 5th shot that hits (on average) becomes an instant kill? Yes please.

Doing the first mission where the sitrep shows chrysalids. It's a story mission and if I remember correctly from vanilla, it's the Gateway/Gatekeeper mission. I've already killed gatekeepers, so I'm not particularly worried.

That said, I'm bring 4 guys with bladestorm for sh*ts and giggles. 3 Rangers and a Templar. Not the best for Gatekeepers, but it should make any screwups I make regarding Chrysalids extra fun!

The other two are a Reaper and a hack Specialist. There are heavy MECs on the mission so I'm gonna try to grab one. No med kits. Oddly, the Assassin shotgun started the mission missing 1 round. Weird. Reloading worked as expected though, so if it's a bug, it didn't do any harm.

edit: uh oh. I forgot Chrysalids poison. This should be more interesting than I had hoped.

edit: Omg, that was satisfying. I killed 2 advents in a 3 man pod, leaving an elite Spectre (22 hp). Knowing that it would shadowbind one of my guys first, I set up a conga-line of bladestormers. And of course the Spectre targets the last guy in line/a guy past the line. Each bladestorm went off like dominoes falling. He never reached the 4th bladestorm. Hah!

EMP Bombs stun heavy MECs for 2 turns, kind of making hacking them a waste of effort, unless you actually seize control of it. It's much easier to throw a grenade than to rely on probability during a hack.

EMP Bombs do not stun Sectopods however. They do good damage though.

I pussed out and instead of taking the Chrysalids on in hand to hand combat, I set up overwatch lines then moved my Templar around, activating buried Chrysalids. Buried Chrysalids get to attack on the turn they activate, so not getting poisoned is a challenge. I have a high aim guardian Specialist with a repeater and she would regularly get 2 shots off per overwatch. And 3 shots once.

Damn it. So it was the Gateway/Gatekeeper mission. Gatekeepers explode. I'm gonna hafta try to remember that in the future when using 4 melee soldiers. (only 2 took it in the face, but only because it died before I could get more around it).
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by killbot737 »

I just figured out what you mean by pods. I thought you meant the green alien blobs all over the place and I was totally missing something. You actually mean MOBS.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod »

killbot737 wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:07 am I just figured out what you mean by pods. I thought you meant the green alien blobs all over the place and I was totally missing something. You actually mean MOBS.
Well, sort of. It's a set of MOBS that activate together when you spot them. A Pod is a small group of MOBS, if you will. You don't want to spot and activate three Pods at once... :mrgreen:
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Jag »

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:40 pmEMP Bombs stun heavy MECs for 2 turns, kind of making hacking them a waste of effort, unless you actually seize control of it. It's much easier to throw a grenade than to rely on probability during a hack.
Unless you savescum a hack. Not that I would ever do that. It does seem like the hack success is predetermined based on a test of savescumming like 6 hack attempts at 50% that all failed.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Paingod »

Jag wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:58 am
GreenGoo wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:40 pmEMP Bombs stun heavy MECs for 2 turns, kind of making hacking them a waste of effort, unless you actually seize control of it. It's much easier to throw a grenade than to rely on probability during a hack.
Unless you savescum a hack. Not that I would ever do that. It does seem like the hack success is predetermined based on a test of savescumming like 6 hack attempts at 50% that all failed.
I believe the game stores a set of random variables to pull out for each roll. I think it seeds this before the save, and again after the save is loaded - which means you'll get different results the before you load a save for the first time, but the same results for each load after that. If you're scumming, you just need to the order of operations correct for a really hard scenario. Go ahead and ask me how I got the "Who Needs Tygan?" Achievement. Basic gear against the last mission? ... Either you've got bullshit luck or great patience. I've got patience.

As an example, the game might store 5, 93, 18, 56, and 70 before a save is loaded. If you try and hack and then shoot, you'll fail the hack (roll a 5) and succeed with the shot (unless it was a 6% chance to hit or lower) ... and if you reverse them, you'll miss with the shot and succeed with the hack. Each time the save is loaded, though, it refreshes a newly created seed the same way. Now it'll be 82, 23, 79, 12, and 64 - and each time you load it, it will be 82, 23, 79, 12, and 64. You can then try to, for example - shoot an enemy (82% success), break cover and force an enemy overwatch (23% success for them), shoot another enemy (79% success), aim for an easy target (anything 88% chance to hit or better), and maybe put someone into overwatch (giving them a 64% chance to hit).

I don't know this for certain, and base it on my observations after hundreds of hours of non-Ironman play chasing sometimes absurd achievements. In my regular play, I like to limit myself to one save mid-mission. I either start over, or from that point. When doing something stupid hard, I'm not bashful about save scumming.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

tl;dr version
----------------
If you want a different result after a reload, do things differently.
if you want the same result, do things exactly the same as before the reload.
----------------

I don't know if Paingod is correct as I've never tested it, but I thought I did have a basic understanding, so I'll explain what I think I know.

Computers aren't random, but they can use elements in the software and hardware to simulate it. It's called entropy, which is different but sorta the same from thermodynamics entropy. No details. If you want to understand randomness in computer engineering, it's its own field of study.

If you've ever played a game that randomly generates a map, but allows you to put in a code to recreate the same map, or the map of someone you saw playing online, it is often called a seed. You can think of the seed as the number from which all other numbers are grown. Using the same starting seed means all decisions that go into making a random map are made in the exact same way, every time. The number represents a pre-determined snapshot of all the random decisions that resulted in the first map, so you can tell the game to make those exact same choices for the same decisions again, and this results in the exact same map being generated. The term "seed" is a common computing term referring to the starting point for simulated randomness.

Ok, here's where it gets Xcom specific, and in my opinion, kind of cool. Have you ever read someone complaining about how Xcom is broken because it is clearly not random because dude missed a 95% shot, reloaded, and missed it again, then did the same again and again for like 10 reloads? Remember that a "seed" is the number from which all other randomness springs? Exactly. The game generates a seed that it uses to simulate randomness. When you reload, the seed is the same as it was before you reloaded, so the shot that missed will miss again. It's the exact same seed so the "roll" is exactly the same as it was last time.

Following so far?

Ok. So that might lead you to believe that Xcom is not random because it creates a seed and then uses it. Putting aside that nothing in a computer is truly random, the seed in Xcom is generated on the fly. Meaning that the number from which all other numbers are created is always changing. What it doesn't do, is change the seed if nothing happens. When you reload and do the exact same actions again, you get the exact same result. Every. Single. Time.

So here are a couple of ways to use this information from a practical standpoint.

a) If you reload and want a different outcome, do different things. This would even include the exact same actions but in a different order. Move soldier 1, then soldier 2, then fire with soldier 1 and don't like the outcome? Reload and then move soldier 2 FIRST, then soldier 1, then fire with soldier 1. This changes the seed and the outcome *could be* different.

b) If you saved a few moves back and liked the result of your next 5 actions but the 6th is a HUGE mistake? Reload and then do the first 5 actions EXACTLY THE SAME as you did the first time. I promise you you will get the exact same result that you did the first time. On your 6th action, change it up. Do something else, anything else, before taking that 6th action again. Typically I just move the soldiers in a different order, but it can literally be anything at all that results in the game's "reality" changing in some way. So you can't just look at someone's move options without moving them or whatever and have things change. You need to alter the game in some way. Throw a grenade. Take a shot. Move in a different order. That sort of thing.

Sorry for the long post, but hopefully it helps understand Xcom mechanics and gives you some practical ways to take advantage of that knowledge.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Here's a stackoverflow link to a Q&A about computer entropy.
computer entropy wrote:In computing, entropy is the randomness collected by an operating system or application for use in cryptography or other uses that require random data. This randomness is often collected from hardware sources, either pre-existing ones such as mouse movements or specially provided randomness generators
That "specially provided randomness generator" is often the same thing as "mouse movements", although it usually means mouse movements + lots of other factors. You can generate entropy for the /dev/random "device" in Linux/UNIX by pounding on your keyboard, for example. The more actions/sources, the more "random" the number generated.

While I did say that nothing in a computer is random, the methods used might as well be completely random, as replicating the method used to generate the number is all but impossible.

Cryptography relies heavily on entropy. I don't know anything about Crypto-currency, but given its name...
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Opinions on Colonel rank skills for Templar? Templar in question has room for 3 focus points. Starts with 1 focus point.

Ionic storm - Spend focus to do ranged AoE damage. More focus, bigger AoE, bigger damage. Kills generate focus like Rend does. 4 turn cooldown. This sounds pretty rocking.

Void Conduit - Trap enemy in psionic prison, immobilizing them for multiple actions (# of actions = focus points at cast time). Enemy actions transfer health from prisoner to Templar. Ok if you need health. Ok if you need to remove an enemy unit for a turn. Unlike stasis you can still shoot the target. I'm not really sure how this works. I'm not really sure how any of this works, which is why I need your help.

Ghost - create a shadow doppelganger of the Templar. Uses 2 focus points. Ghost starts with same focus as Templar had when cast. Rending costs the Ghost 1 focus point. Ghost cannot gain focus points. When focus reaches zero, ghost dissipates. Create a second Templar from a humanoid corpse? That sounds too good to be true, especially if the Ghost has all the skills of the original Templar, like deflect/reflect etc.

Here are my thoughts.

I love exciting AoE damage. Void on my psioperatives is my favourite skill of theirs. The extra mind control/panic is just gravy, and what lovely gravy it is. I still use it on mechanical units, because large radius AoE damage. So Ionic storm sounds great. And does double damage to psionic enemies! However, AoE damage is best used as an opener, before your rangers/templars get "stuck in". Worse, you need to kill a couple of things first to generate enough focus to get the most out of your storm.

There is practically nothing more powerful than taking a single unit out of the fight for 1 turn. Being able to ignore the most dangerous but also most difficult to kill unit in a pod for an entire turn can often turn a challenging fight into a cake walk. Everything else is just gravy. More effective the more focus points you have. i.e. need kills first. Conduit looks like a solid workhorse, with absolutely no fun attached to it whatsoever.

A mimic beacon that has all the health, skills, movement and melee damage of the original Templar? Can this be true? What am I missing? Still, you need at least 2 kills beforehand to get the most out of Ghost. On the other hand, you can't even cast it without getting a kill first, so maybe that's moot? edit: More reading shows that the Ghost is basically a copy of your Templar. All skills are carried over. That's nuts, even if your supply of focus is limited.
Last edited by GreenGoo on Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Didn't realize Focus gives mobility points as well. No wonder my Templar can nearly move as far as other units can dash. I really wish my Templar had better than standard combat intelligence. I also wish he had Fortress as an option. Talk about a purifier slayer.

Dodge as well, apparently. My Templar would be approaching 100% dodge chance after gaining enough focus, apparently.

I'm reading that channel works no matter who kills the enemy. I.e. the entire squad can help build focus for the Templar when they kill someone. I took overcharge and not channel. I regret my decision.

If you have both deflect and reflect, only 1 is active at a time. 1 focus point or less? Deflect is active. 2 focus points or more? Reflect. I kind of hoped they both were active at the same time (but only 1 can trigger) meaning you have layered defenses, but I'll take what I can get.

I did not take any of the repositioning skills. Obviously they are extremely strong, but I went hard at damage skills and less on utility. Still, swapping places to bring someone out of cover, then using the Templar's natural mobility (assuming invert only uses 1 action) to get back into cover/attack another strategic target is a pretty awesome tactical ability. As with melee attacks though, you need to watch out for activating new pods.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by ColdSteel »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:55 pm I took overcharge and not channel. I regret my decision.
So, why not go to the Training Center and buy channel as well? I've bought a ton of extra skills for my heroes and my better troops. You really can have it all. You probably do have to do some of those skill point covert ops though if your XCOM AP total is low. I try to keep mine no lower than 25 in case I want to buy a big skill.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Daveman »

It's been awhile, but isn't there a facility that lets you reassign a soldiers skills? Puts them out of action for a few days but no other cost.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

ColdSteel wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:43 pm
GreenGoo wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:55 pm I took overcharge and not channel. I regret my decision.
So, why not go to the Training Center and buy channel as well? I've bought a ton of extra skills for my heroes and my better troops. You really can have it all. You probably do have to do some of those skill point covert ops though if your XCOM AP total is low. I try to keep mine no lower than 25 in case I want to buy a big skill.
A couple of reasons, although they are less reasons and more feelings about how I like to do things.

First, she only has standard combat intelligence and I've already bought extras like bladestorm and reaper.

Second, I don't like spending Xcom points on non-Xcom (i.e. non-hero class) soldiers. No reason whatsoever, I just don't like doing it. Because.

Third, I don't like retraining my soldiers. What they get as they level is what they get. So while I could retrain her, I'm not going to do so. This is fundamental to how I approach games that allow you to "build" your character. If you want a powerful endgame build, you need to suffer through the low end stuff with stuff that doesn't get good until later. Games where builds are designed to be changed regularly (Diablo 3, for example) are an exception. No reason. Because. Yes it is strange, and limiting.

Lastly, none of that matters and I'll probably do exactly what you suggest anyway, because the Templar is too awesome not to make even more awesome using any means possible, including extra AP covert ops, which I've already done once for her.

So in the end I'll have a Templar with both channel and overcharge.

Info: I'm sure I have over 100 AP in my Xcom pool. And that's with lots of soldiers buying extra skills. The Hero classes especially have bought extra "Xcom" skills, although the other heroes have more AP available from leveling because none of the others are as low as standard combat intelligence.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Jag »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:51 pm Opinions on Colonel rank skills for Templar? Templar in question has room for 3 focus points. Starts with 1 focus point.

Ionic storm - Spend focus to do ranged AoE damage. More focus, bigger AoE, bigger damage. Kills generate focus like Rend does. 4 turn cooldown. This sounds pretty rocking.

Void Conduit - Trap enemy in psionic prison, immobilizing them for multiple actions (# of actions = focus points at cast time). Enemy actions transfer health from prisoner to Templar. Ok if you need health. Ok if you need to remove an enemy unit for a turn. Unlike stasis you can still shoot the target. I'm not really sure how this works. I'm not really sure how any of this works, which is why I need your help.

Ghost - create a shadow doppelganger of the Templar. Uses 2 focus points. Ghost starts with same focus as Templar had when cast. Rending costs the Ghost 1 focus point. Ghost cannot gain focus points. When focus reaches zero, ghost dissipates. Create a second Templar from a humanoid corpse? That sounds too good to be true, especially if the Ghost has all the skills of the original Templar, like deflect/reflect etc.

Here are my thoughts.

I love exciting AoE damage. Void on my psioperatives is my favourite skill of theirs. The extra mind control/panic is just gravy, and what lovely gravy it is. I still use it on mechanical units, because large radius AoE damage. So Ionic storm sounds great. And does double damage to psionic enemies! However, AoE damage is best used as an opener, before your rangers/templars get "stuck in". Worse, you need to kill a couple of things first to generate enough focus to get the most out of your storm.

There is practically nothing more powerful than taking a single unit out of the fight for 1 turn. Being able to ignore the most dangerous but also most difficult to kill unit in a pod for an entire turn can often turn a challenging fight into a cake walk. Everything else is just gravy. More effective the more focus points you have. i.e. need kills first. Conduit looks like a solid workhorse, with absolutely no fun attached to it whatsoever.

A mimic beacon that has all the health, skills, movement and melee damage of the original Templar? Can this be true? What am I missing? Still, you need at least 2 kills beforehand to get the most out of Ghost. On the other hand, you can't even cast it without getting a kill first, so maybe that's moot? edit: More reading shows that the Ghost is basically a copy of your Templar. All skills are carried over. That's nuts, even if your supply of focus is limited.
I got my Templar to Colonel yesterday and Ghost was a no brainer. I always prefer summons in any game I play. Easier to throw them at the AI and avoid damage to your actual team. I was actually surprised though how powerful the ghost was. I would have been happy if it was just a lure for the AI to waste attacks on, but it has all the same skills as the Templar. Used it 3 times already, most recently on a Chosen stronghold mission.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Paingod wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:55 am
killbot737 wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:07 am I just figured out what you mean by pods. I thought you meant the green alien blobs all over the place and I was totally missing something. You actually mean MOBS.
Well, sort of. It's a set of MOBS that activate together when you spot them. A Pod is a small group of MOBS, if you will. You don't want to spot and activate three Pods at once... :mrgreen:
I fought against using the term "pod" for hundreds of hours in vanilla. I dislike it quite a bit. But it is the term that the community uses, and it's simpler to just adopt the community's verbiage so that everyone understands what everyone else is saying.

A group of mobs that all activate at the same time when any individual member of the group has visual contact with any xcom or xcom allied soldier is called a pod. Don't blame me. I don't even like the term.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

I agree with Jag, I'm going with Ghost for this Templar I think.

On another subject, I have 2 tracer rounds, 2 venom rounds, 3 dragon rounds and zero talon rounds. :(

Bluescreen rounds aren't randomly created in the Proving Grounds so I didn't include them in my quest for talon rounds. I have 2 bluescreen rounds, fyi.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by Jag »

Does it matter what gear and upgrades are equipped for soldiers sent on Covert Missions? Wondering if it ok to strip them down before sending them out or should I gear them better for the missions.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Jag wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:28 pm Does it matter what gear and upgrades are equipped for soldiers sent on Covert Missions? Wondering if it ok to strip them down before sending them out or should I gear them better for the missions.
I don't know for a fact, but I feel very strongly that it doesn't matter. The only time it would matter is when the covert op gets ambushed and you have to run an escape mission, at which point whatever you had equipped when you went on the covert op is still equipped during the ambush mission.

To the best of my knowledge there is no variability to covert ops missions. They are always a success, unless it gets ambushed, but since I have never not escaped (save scum), I'm not sure that the covert ops is a failure just because the ambush was.

Sometimes a soldier is wounded, or sometimes a soldier is even captured (never happened to me, strongly implied by the text on some covert ops), but the op is always successful. I do not know but strongly assume that there is no variability to how much exp is gained, or how much bond compatibility is gained, or whatever.

I absolutely would strip the soldiers down to the bare essentials if I was willing to micro manage that. So far, I am not. That might and probably will change if I play ironman.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

I took Ghost with this Templar. I kind of want to try a caster Templar in my next game. We'll see.

With no more story missions available right now, and 2 shadow chamber tasks waiting to be completed (I'm not working on them right now as there are a couple of normal research items I want to get out of the way), a UFO shot down the Avenger. I'm pretty sure this is scripted for this exact stage of the story development, but I could be wrong.

In any case, I had plasma and warden armour on everyone except the grenadiers, who are still using Gauss (soon to rectify that though). I did not have a defense matrix, mostly because that requires turret breakdown research, and I've only done autopsies/break downs when they are instant. I have not captured enough destroyed turrets for it to be instant, yet. It's too late to care now anyway. I don't believe there is any other assault possible on the Avenger.

By the end of the mission 3 reinforcements were dropping every turn, but they didn't matter because all but the very last reinforcements were killed on the turn they dropped, often by overwatch, although the Hvy MEC always goes into overwatch instead of moving, so you have to actively kill him. The mission gives you 10 soldiers in total (maybe if you lose one, Bradford sends out another one to make it an even 10 again?) and with the ranks and technology I had, it went like clock work, although an early priest made it onto the ramp after he dashed in, got crushed, stasis'd, then dashed again on his next turn. I managed to kill him before the turn ended however, so crisis averted.

Up until now I had been very dissatisfied with the Fuse psionic skill. It seemed like there was always something better my psi-operative could be doing. No longer. Every time reinforcements dropped, a Hvy MEC would immediately go on overwatch. Fuse has no cool down, so it can be used every turn. I must have fused like 7 Hvy MECs to drop them out of overwatch so that my guys could move around to more advantageous positions. Sometimes I fused a MEC corpse instead, if the newly arrived MEC was too close to one of my own overwatchers. Very useful.

In the end, zero soldiers killed, zero soldiers wounded, 33/36 enemies defeated, zero scums saved. In retrospect I could have ended it probably 5 turns earlier, but I was waiting for a lull in the reinforcements that never came to activate the final pod around the beacon. I guess I could have just killed the beacon with squad sight without activating the pod, but what's the fun in that?
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Just a reminder, the skulljack gives +20 to hacking in general, so if you plan on doing any hacking, bring a skulljack, even if you don't plan on hacking a soldier.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by ColdSteel »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:10 pm By the end of the mission 3 reinforcements were dropping every turn, but they didn't matter because all but the very last reinforcements were killed on the turn they dropped, often by overwatch
I love parking one of my bladestorm rangers with the assassin katana next to a reinforcement node. When they pop up they try to run and the ranger kills all of them when they do.

I did the main mission with the gate yesterday and it had a ton of buried chrysalids. I used to worry about those but now with the bladestorm ranger out front, they pop up and run over to them and get killed. The katana can't miss so there's no risk. It 's nice.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

ColdSteel wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:10 am I love parking one of my bladestorm rangers with the assassin katana next to a reinforcement node. When they pop up they try to run and the ranger kills all of them when they do.
Absolutely. In this case I didn't have anyone with bladestorm (I had just run a mission with 4 bladestormers and they were all on cooldown) so I had to do it the old fashioned way.

Even with the Assassin's Katana I was not able to kill the Chrysalids in 1 hit. Or maybe I could have but forgot I had it? I can't remember. The Templar definitely couldn't do it.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by ColdSteel »

GreenGoo wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:55 am Even with the Assassin's Katana I was not able to kill the Chrysalids in 1 hit.
Yeah, I researched the sword upgrade that gives them more damage and have the blademaster skill on all my rangers that also gives more damage to sword attacks (+2 I think). After that the katana can take out most mobs. A bladestorm/blademaster ranger with reaper working is a sight to behold.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by ColdSteel »

GreenGoo wrote: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:10 pm a UFO shot down the Avenger. I'm pretty sure this is scripted for this exact stage of the story development, but I could be wrong.
You may be right. As soon as I finished the first gateway story mission, Brad popped on the geoscape screen and said a UFO was tracking us and we should be careful which route we took. I was in Australia at the time and flew back to northern Europe. On the way a red UFO came flying down to Australia from the north but I was already out of there. I saw it hanging around on the geoscape map for a while buzzing around that area. So, it appears you can avoid it.

I've developed A,B and C teams of regular soldiers. I only have 2 psi ops soldiers though. The C team is still at Major on average but A and B are all colonels. I always have one of my two Reapers on any team that goes out as they are invaluable for scouting ahead for pods. I mix in the Templar, Skirmisher and the psi ops as needed. It's working well so far.

Though the other soldier have their roles, 90% of my kills are made by sharpshooters and rangers. Sharpshooters in particular are just death machines. I've killed as many as 10 mobs in a single turn with one. Rangers can also kill a lot of stuff in a turn. My Templar *should* be the same but I really need to get more mobility on him so he can get into battles faster. By the time I can run him over in range of stuff, my sharpshooter has already killed everything.

I only had two sharpshooters so when I finally recruited a gifted rookie, I put him in training and made him a sharpshooter. Then I sent him on every covert op I could that increased his intelligence or gave him a promotion. Now he's a savant captain and shaping up to be A or B team material. Covert ops are great for a quick rise in rank.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Finished it last night. Nothing too note worthy. Only 1 guy got hit on the first stage for minor damage. I underestimated how far some mutons could move on their first action then they got a lucky hit on my skirmisher behind high cover.

Second stage went fine, but I made a few mistakes. Without spoilers (even though the game is 2 years old, maybe I'm saving someone from spoilage), there are 3 "thingies" to deal with. The first isn't supposed to be a challenge, I don't think and he wasn't. However I managed to get my guys too spread apart. The second thingie was a bit tougher, as I was fighting on both the left and right sides at the same time. I am unsure if the spawns are timer based, enemies left based, or just every turn based. In any case it's a testament to how OP you are compared to vanilla because I was mostly winning both sides at once. If the spawns are enemies based, I think it makes more sense to pick a side, waste anything that spawns there, and make the other side come to you.

In any case, I banished the second thingie and things were looking good. However, I over extended my main asset, although I didn't think I had, and after giving 2 archons battle frenzy without killing them, they were able to move much farther than normal and get a melee attack on my asset. Both landed, then a muton got a lucky shot and it was game over.

So I actually lost the mission. :(

I reloaded from a few turns earlier and did things differently, and so did the ai. I got stuck just killing spawns with no progress until eventually in my frustration I decided, and that the game probably expects, a suicidal assault on the final thingie. One turn earlier I left my skirmisher exposed when I failed to turn the last andromedon into a robotic melee only enemy, and he crit my skirmisher and he was gone. That turn I started my assault on the final thingie, and won with 2 soldiers yet to move.

You're kind of crazy OP by end game, in ways that vanilla could only dream of. Still, enough enemies were spawning fast enough that I was constantly pressed for reloads and blue moves. A couple of times a 1 or 2 hp codex got a psionic bomb off, and that slowed me down further. If/when I do it again, I'll set up a kill zone on one side of the map only, kill the spawns and hopefully force the other side to come to me. This might hand the initiative to them, and that would be bad, but I felt like I was juggling too many balls and the game kept throwing new ones into the air before I was quite ready.

I made the mistake of taking the wrong reaper on the mission, but it didn't matter, really. I also made the mistake of not giving my psi-op a modified rifle, so he was stuck with low aim and a vanilla fusion rifle. His long cooldowns meant he had to shoot way more often than I expected, and a scope and some other weapon mods would have helped quite a bit.

I left over 100 Xcom Ability points on the table, so that was a waste. I just didn't think to use them before I started the final mission.

I let a viper strangle my sharpshooter for 2 turns, while sitting in a poison cloud. I made the mistake of leaving her unsupported and there were bigger problems than her slowly dying. I eventually freed her and healed her up and it was all good.

I took a medi-specialist and he did heal people, except none of the people that he healed were ever hit again before the game ended, meaning that the heals didn't matter. The one guy that needed a heal but didn't get one was the Skirmisher, and that killed him. Luckily the specialist had a good gun and good abilities and his utility was useful in other ways.

The Templar was not nearly as effective as I would have liked. No fortress meant he was eating poison when he should have been immune if I had the option. He did have 2 or 3 turns in the middle of the fight where he killed 4-6 guys each turn, so obviously that was awesome, but I'm not sure that makes up for all the turns where he did basically nothing effective at all.

My team was:

Reaper
Templar
Skirmisher
Specialist (mostly medic)
Sharpshooter (non-pistol. I'd take a pistol SS next time, if given the choice)
Psi-operative

I had 5 Rangers in my roster, 4 of which were Majors and one of which was a Colonel. Unfortunately the Colonel didn't have blademaster or bladestorm, so I didn't take him. I didn't take the others because they weren't Colonels. I'm not sure a Ranger would have been a better option than the sharpshooter, but maybe. In retrospect I might ditch the specialist, but I find it hard not to have him in case I need to recover from a lucky enemy shot. I might even give up the Templar instead, as the fight is very spread out. With his high mobility and bladestorm and Reaper he should have been much more effective than he was. I think I misused him. He did get a reflect off, which was the first time ever, so that was cool. Buying a skill that only worked 1 time, not per mission, but per game seems like a waste. And it's actually two skills, since deflect never fired, that I can recall.

I guess I never finished a commander game of vanilla, even though most of my hours in it were Commander/Ironman, so when I finished this game I got the Commander achievement.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

I'm not sure if you've finished the game before Coldsteel, but just some advice in case you are not aware:

The start of the Hack the Advent Tower mission is the beginning of the end. After you finish that mission you are no longer able to access any of the Avenger's or Global map's options before the next mission starts. You can however, pick and choose your team, and pick and choose their equipment. But that's it. You can't spend any extra AP on skills, you can't build anything in the proving grounds, or buy new equipment in engineering. No research either. Nothing but access to the mission prep screen. Any will lost on the Tower mission is gone for the next mission as well. 2 of my guys were used on both missions and their will was basically zero when the game ended.

The next time, if I get this far, I will definitely take B team members on the Tower Hack.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by ColdSteel »

Thanks for the tip, Greengoo.

No, I haven't played either XCOM 2 or the WoTC expansion before so this is all new. I'm getting near the end of my game but I had been holding off on doing any of the story stuff until my soldiers and research were pretty much maxed out. I still have Shadow Chamber research to do but I'm not sure how much more there is at this point.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Sounds like you don't have anything left to do but wait out the research.

Here's my plan for what's next.

Do the canned missions from the legacy DLC to unlock everything. My son has done the first one so I just need to do the last 3 to unlock the legacy armor, helmets and soldier attitudes. I'm gonna do it on the easiest difficulty probably to speed things up.

Then, I'm playing another normal Commander (thinking about legendary) game with the DLC not integrated. Reading, this should give me the original story missions from the DLCs. By all accounts this is more difficult, but I want to experience the DLCs as they were originally intended. I guess I could play vanilla Xcom 2 with the DLCs. Maybe I'll do that. Not sure.

After that I'm hoping to start doing commander/ironman runs with integrated DLC. The community is pretty split on the Alien Hunters DLC. Half really like the new challenges and the other half either find it too difficult, or the Leader mechanics too big a change, or both. Very few if anyone thinks the Alien Hunters is easy.

I really just want to start a new campaign, but I also want the unlocks, so I guess I'm stuck with the mission chains for now. I realize I can use a mod to unlock them without doing the chains first, but I try to avoid doing stuff like that. I used to be completely opposed to that sort of "cheating" but now I'm less adamant.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

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I've been meaning to make this comment for days, weeks possibly.

I really, really dislike the visuals of the Chosen. They are offputting without being cool. I don't usually have a strong opinion on this sort of thing, but I really don't like the look they went with, and it's everywhere in the game now, so you can't escape it.

Aesthetically displeasing even in the context of horrible monsters from mankind's nightmares.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

About to start the last mission of "It came from the sea". My play has been sloppy and the difficulty is story mode. I think I've only had 1 flawless, and that was the 6th mission. I even lost Bradford on the very first mission. In my defense, I saw blademaster and thought bladestorm. It's not much of a defense, but it's why I left him unsupported. In later missions he's missed quite a few bladestorm opportunities, so it's not like he was guaranteed to live even if he had bladestorm on the first mission.

That's the only soldier I lost, but I usually end a mission with at least 1 soldier injured, sometimes 2. Still, I'm a little surprised that I'm still below the silver medal going into the final mission. Unless that mission is worth a ton more points than I expect, I'll barely squeak over the silver medal. I haven't been playing particularly defensively, meaning I should be gaining a fair bit of early bird bonuses, and I'm usually finishing timed missions with 3-4+ turns left.

I think it was Paingod who noted that your score scales significantly with difficulty level, so I guess that's what I'm experiencing. That's fine, my goal this time around is not personal best, I just want the unlocks without mod cheating.

edit: Huh. Looks like this final mission is the same map as the Newfoundland Chrysalid map from the first one. I guess that makes sense. This seems to be a retelling of that period of time, or close to it.

edit: Flashbangs don't work on Avatars. FFfffuuuucckkkk me. edit: 4 soldiers ate a rift. That's gonna put a dent in the ol' points.
edit: Wait. There's a timer on the X4. Does that mean I need to reach the extraction point before then, or is it just to make sure you're not standing beside it? I'm gonna look it up because it makes a pretty big difference for how I exfiltrate.

edit: never did find out. Just rolling dashs/overwatches straight to the extraction point. Chrysalids spawned and gave chase, but most were killed by overwatch and the last 2 never made it anywhere near liftoff.

Game summary shows no lost soldiers, but I definitely lost Bradford on the first mission, so I don't know what that means. Bug, I guess. 9 wounded soldiers. Assuming that number is correct, 4 of those were on the last mission from a single Rift. Oh well. Silver medal, not that I expected any different, only that I was surprised I couldn't get there before the last mission points.

Final score was: 273,700, with 101 aliens dead and 23,700 bonus points. 74 turns taken, which seems a bit long. That's over 10 turns per mission on average.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Taking another look at the mission start, Rookie and Legendary are still greyed out. I could have sworn people were talking about doing this on Legendary, so I don't know what the deal is.

273,700 + 9000 (if all missions were flawless) still puts me well short of the 300,000 needed for a gold medal.

Even if I went Faster, pussycat! kill! kill! I'd still need over 17,000 more bonus points. Considering I only received ~23,000 this time, I have my doubts that I could nearly double that with better, faster play.

Two more of these to unlock everything. :( I admit that the score keeping was making me pay more attention and care more about my turns, even though I wasn't paying attention to the numbers as I went along.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Started Avenger Assemble.

Bah. Over extended again thinking LoS was blocked to the 3rd pod. It wasn't. Pulled the 3rd pod while the priest was still active. Finished with 1 wounded.

Enemy commanders can shoot on the turn they patrol and spot a concealed Xcom, apparently. I was counting on the fact that I didn't think they could. Oh well, another mission, another wounded soldier.

Ok, 3rd mission, activated a pod on the last move of my turn, light MEC grenaded my grouped soldiers about to kick in a door on the next turn, completely exposing them to 2 other pods with no cover to speak of.

Some how the other 2 pods didn't get a turn when they activated. I don't know why. It's their turn and they activated but didn't fire. So weird. I figured I'd lose several members of the squad, if not a complete wipe, but I'm gonna play it out, see how it goes. Son of a gun, it was just one tile, and they went from out of LoS into it, despite cover. I haven't had a mistake bite me on the butt like that in a long while.

Did it. Lost 2 soldiers, 2 wounded, 1 unwounded. On the easiest setting. Not my finest moment. Still, there is no setback besides score, you just get replacement soldiers of the appropriate level for the next mission, so I'm gonna keep going. Feels like Silver is an easier medal on Avenger Assemble than on It Came from the Sea.

Just justiced a purifier, that then exposed my concealed ranger, then exploded damaging both the Skirmisher and the Ranger. Oh yeah, I'm on a roll tonight.

Ok, 5th mission was flawless. Started out strong and fast, but got bogged down in the middle, so a couple turns too many, probably.

6th mission is a protect the object mission. I pretty much hate these. Actually, I take it back. They can be a little difficult if you can't reach aliens on the far side, but normally they aren't so bad.

Turns out it was close thing. I believe the object only had 7 hp left. An 39% hack on a sectopod to take control basically won it for us. If Shen had missed it, we would have had to engage the last 2 pods (gatekeeper+ for one, Sectopod+ for the other) and turret from a less than ideal starting position. I'm not sure I could have done it, especially if they just kept at the object rather than turning to fight me.

Skirmisher ate a purifier explosion in melee combat. It was a calculated risk. It was either that or give the purifier a free turn against exposed soldiers. I gambled it wouldn't explode and lost. Still worth it.
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Re: XCOM 2: War of the Chosen - A new war? A new thread!

Post by GreenGoo »

Ok, Avenger Assemble done.

Enlarge Image

Fairly unremarkable. Spoilering some comments on the last mission just in case:
Spoiler:
I think it was only 3 pods on the easiest setting, each with an Avatar. No pod got to take an action, and the last Sectopod+Avatar pod never even got to activate before it died. 2 homing mines and a capacitor discharge lit them up, then the mines went off, then the Sectopod exploded, killing anything that was left. That might be the best result of a setup followed by a single action I've had in Xcom 2. It was pretty glorious.
I definitely skulked around the outside looking for pods instead of beelining to the objective. Was 14 turns for the flawless, so that's way too long for the amount of enemies on the map, even if they were pretty dangerous enemies.

I have no idea why it says 4 soldiers lost. To the best of my knowledge, I just lost the two as noted in my post above.

Just the last archive left for the soldier attitudes (I think?).
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