Octopus Overlords

I guess it's rocket fire or grenades. They show an area of where it's going to hit.

Oh, like the single use rocket/explodey thing? Got it.

Later you can develop other heavy weapons and jam them in there (it replaces the rocket) for different kinds of attacks. Shredder gun/cannon is probably my favourite.

Going after the assassin in her house and I may have blown it... I split focus to take out adds and got my crew spread all over the place, killing the chosen on the last action, meaning I only have two turns to blow the sarcophagus before she comes back. Soldiers are out of position and I didn't bring a sharpshooter so I only get the sarcophagus to 20% before she comes back. She keeps teleporting around the bottom corner so I have to move away from the sarcophagus to kill her again and can't get her in one turn. Her MEC shoots rockets at the Templar and Ranger who are protected by Reflect and Untouchable, yay. Then she stabs the ranger and the ranger is bleeding out. I don't have a specialist on the mission either. WTF. Basically I have two turns to kill the Assassin in the bottom corner WITHOUT my ranger *and* take out the sarcophagus *and* kill the assassin again or I lose my top soldier.

My crew is Reaper, Templar, Skirmisher, Psi Ops, Ranger, Grenadier, all Majors I think. Basically a wrecking crew, but the sarcophagus room is the completely flat one which hampers the skirmishers mobility and the assassin chose her positioning well. I *really* don't want to lose that Ranger, but I am not sure I can pull this one off with my number one damage dealer laying on the ground in a pool of her own blood. It should be an interesting evening.

I just realized I never bought the class specific GTS skills either. I have like 1700 supplies too. Ugh.

Yeah, that's tough. Many good players ignore specialists, and I get their argument, but I have a hard time not bringing at least some healing with me. It helps that with the right weapon mods and PSCs and skills specialists can be absolutely devastating on defense in overwatch, and the ability to semi-reliably stun mechanicals doesn't hurt either. Specialists are the only class that I regularly put repeaters on their weapons. Watching a specialist execute 2-4 aliens (assuming a bad pull or something) on the alien turn is amazing. Exceedingly rare, but it happens. You might not need to stun that light or heavy MEC, but being able to take the Sectopod out for an entire turn is something that even your best ranger can't do, and he certainly can't kill it alone in one turn either, so sometimes a stun is a game changer. On timer based missions postponing a kill until the next turn can be problematic since it eats an extra turn, but there are many non-timer missions too.

I love melee in all things, and that holds true for Xcom as well. Templars and Rangers are easily my favourite, but I'm unlikely to leave a medikit at home just so I can have an extra sword (or even better a shotgun with high crit).

On a couple of missions that I expected to be tough, especially in Ironman, I might even bring two specialists.

It's quite difficult to decide on squad composition with the addition of 3 new classes, especially since all 3 are pretty awesome in their own right. These days if I have to leave one of the regular classes behind, it's often the sharpshooter, despite the fact that a special ammo gunslinger is crazy powerful, especially with blue screen vs. Sectopods. It would probably be the grenadier if not for their natural ability to shred armor. Being able to do that without consumables is a big deal to me.

Just the suggestion of leaving the grenadier at home has me questioning your sanity. Late game four explosives plus shredding, suppression, cover destruction, holo-targeting... the only bad thing about a grenadier is their aim.

I may have a medkit on someone, but it's not on a gremlin, which is going to be the problem.

I almost never heal because it only matter if someone gets hit a second time and if that happens it is because I screwed up.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:50 pm Just the suggestion of leaving the grenadier at home has me questioning your sanity. Late game four explosives plus shredding, suppression, cover destruction, holo-targeting... the only bad thing about a grenadier is their aim.

I may have a medkit on someone, but it's not on a gremlin, which is going to be the problem.

I almost never heal because it only matter if someone gets hit a second time and if that happens it is because I screwed up.

By late game the only one of those that matters is armor shredding, and that's only because it speeds things up.

Suppression and demolition are on the same tier. Luckily you can have both, now. So which do you choose on a turn? You can't use both. The times it is better to suppress rather than create a flanking opportunity are rare. Of course demolition can be on cooldown but even then I'd rather blow something up than suppress. In any event, everything you say is true, and yet I'd still have something else. That holo-targeting is a very common as a bonus skill on most (all?) other classes helps, but it's not necessary, in fact I almost never buy it on anything that isn't a grenadier, because there are often better things to spend AP on. Early game though, Grenadiers absolutely rule, no question. I'd rather have a 2nd grenadier than a sharpshooter or specialist, for sure. It's late game that I find them weaker than other options. What's the point of a 4-5 damage grenade when a plasma shotgun can do 18+? The DoTs are almost, but not completely, useless since killing everything the turn it activates is the name of the game. If it lives long enough for the DoT to tick twice, you've screwed up, as you say. Sure you can throw a grenade AND fire if you don't need to move (pretty rare for me) and have taken the "grenade does not end your turn" skill.

What I can't give up is shredding. I hate armor too much to leave it at home, most of the time. Rangers are better at killing stuff and cover becomes a non-issue given melee and run and gun. Sharpshooters are situational but when that situation arises, they are extremely valuable. 1 sniper on a Lost mission makes it easy. 2 snipers on a Lost mission leaves your other 4 able to do anything the want and ignore the lost.

I only bring specialists for their "oh shit" moments. There aren't too many of those, but they still happen to me. They are basically insurance. It's lucky that they can do more than that, but even if they couldn't, I'd probably still bring one. On tougher missions anyway.

I've tried having a medikit on other classes, but it is too restrictive and not nearly effective enough to warrant the space, unless you have nothing else to put in the slot, which happens sometimes, especially as you work on proving grounds projects while you unlock predator armor.

In any case, the classes are nicely balanced in my opinion, although the Specialist is arguably the worst. If you don't need healing then they become even weaker (but not useless!). I won't ever again do a chrysalid mission without at least one healer though. I just won't, and I'd probably take 2 just to be sure. I only ever seem to level up 2, while I'll often level up 4 rangers, 2 grenadiers and 3 sharpshooters, depending on their combat intelligence and what classes the early rookies get randomly.

The truth is that I take what is available. With injuries (often enough) and fatigue (hard to avoid) you often have many soldiers on the bench, so what's left is what I take. If it's 6 grenadiers then it's 6 grenadiers (which of course it never is).

Actually the class I find myself leaving at home the most lately is the Reaper.

What I'm trying to get across is not that my opinion is the right opinion, but that Xcom is balanced enough that you can win whatever your playstyle.

Hell, I'd take 6 Rangers if I wasn't uncomfortable putting all my eggs in one basket. The Ranger is a beast. The 2 drawbacks are mistakenly activating another pod during a melee strike, and a lack of utility. The best utility is killing stuff fast, and that Rangers can do.

I like rangers and sharpshooters myself.
At least one of the Chosen is weak to explosives and I think all are weak to the Reapers and the Templars.
I believe the male Chosen is weak to close combat.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:59 pm I like rangers and sharpshooters myself.
At least one of the Chosen is weak to explosives and I think all are weak to the Reapers and the Templars.
I believe the male Chosen is weak to close combat.

The strengths and weaknesses of the Chosen are random unless you have the Lost and Abandoned mission enabled. I think it is enabled by default. If you have it enabled you will always fight the Assassin first, and she will always be immune to melee, although I can't recall the rest. Each Chosen is weak to 1 of the new classes. If the Lost mission is enabled, I believe the Assassin will always be weak to Reapers.

So, you've played this game before.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:01 pm So, you've played this game before.

I'm a reader. I'm not good, I'm a decent study.

In this case though, I found the predictability of the Assassin and her abilities were less interesting than what randomness can bring. Also I didn't like that my rangers and templars couldn't chop her to pieces. In my current game I met the Warlock first, then Hunter, then Assassin. None are immune to melee this time around.

Just walked into the final mission... deciding if I want to go through that slog again. I've done it so many times I know how it all plays out and it takes a long time to get there, but then again it feels wrong to leave it unfinished.

And it's done. No sweat. I got the Valhalla achievement. Apparently that's the fist time I did Commander Ironman. I could swear I did that before but achievements don't lie... or do they. Glad I finished it. I'm pretty sure I even took a legacy weapon into the final mission.... and most of my soldiers didn't have any PCS because I always forget them.

I just killed the last of the Chosen. I don' know how much I have to go.

The Chosen are side/parallel content. They don't have any impact on the actual main storyline, so defeating them doesn't mean anything in terms of "how far you have to go".

The main story objectives are printed on the screen in the upper left corner, above any red text dark events if you have any of those active. If you want to tell us what those are, we can tell you how much more there is to do.

Congrats on beating all the Chosen btw. That's a pretty big deal.

Congrats Coop. I've actually only been through the final fight a handful of times. 5 or less, maybe, and it still intimidates me, although I'm starting to feel the first stage is a bit easier than I keep thinking it is.

The final fight is always stressful for me as I try to keep the spawns under control while making progress on the task at hand. Knowing when to push hard and damn the consequences to your troopers is particularly difficult for me, and doing it on an Ironman game has got to be even worse.

What team did you go with?

Magus, Templar, Grenadier, Sharpshooter, Specialist, Ranger

The Templar was the weakest of the crew as pretty much the entire thing happens at long range. He is mostly useful for his Volt attack when I can't get a good shot. His mobility can be useful from time to time.

I was never attacked until the final room and the final room was over in 5 turns. I would clean the room on turns between Avatar spawns and do everything I could to kill him the turn he appeared. He never attacked me. I only use one explosive before the final room. That gave me tools to hit the avatar pretty much always, saving the blaster bomb for that special turn when I have no shot on him. A few soldiers were injured in the final room, but nobody went down (except for a brief interlude by a spectre).

I had two guys with dominate and never used it. Always saving it for a better target that never arrives. One of these days... If fact I could replace the Templar with another Magi and Dominate half the room.

It has been my experience that I don't have enough shots to actually kill everyone between avatars. Perhaps I'm not being aggressive enough at the beginning, and fall behind the spawn curve.

OK, cleaning the room wasn't quite accurate. Not killing everyone, just thinning the herd to minimize the pain since I am not really prioritizing cover in that final mission.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:23 pm OK, cleaning the room wasn't quite accurate. Not killing everyone, just thinning the herd to minimize the pain since I am not really prioritizing cover in that final mission.

No worries. When the threat is minimum it certainly feels like the room is cleared.

My concern, assuming I ever get there, is knowing when to push harder in an attempt to kill the avatars faster, while putting my soldiers at increased risk. I'll only get 1 chance at it.

I don't think it's possible to get a full handle on the spawns, as I've had some very productive turns during my last legendary savescum game and there were almost always something left at the end of each turn, and the new turn seemed to bring in more based on how many were currently active. i.e. larger spawns if there are fewer currently active aliens on the map. I'm not certain of it, but it felt like that.

It is my experience that once you kill the first Avatar the 2nd and 3rd hang out in the back corner, surrounded by their bodyguards. Those seem to be on top of whatever aliens are spawning and attacking you. Taking on those bodyguards and/or assassinating the Avatar while ignore some of the aliens threatening you each turn is a decision that can have dire consequences if you get it wrong. Or at least it feels that way to me. Perhaps with more experience I will feel more confident.

I do recall drawing an Avatar away from his bodyguards somehow, but I'll be damned if I can remember how it happened. It certainly wasn't intentional on my part.

It seems like two pods spawn every turn after the initial engagement, but I am not 100% on that as I pretty much play it the same every time so if it is conditional, I might not see all the conditions. Since the avatar teleports in seemingly random directions every time he is damaged, I don't think you draw him away from his bodyguards so much as get lucky.

I generally split the team up on the two sides of the room on the initial engagement and organically spread out as I chase the avatar around the room. I spend a lot of time figuring out who has the best shot and how to leave coverage for the different ways he can teleport, largely ignoring his friends. End game all of your soldiers should be able to take a couple hits and keep fighting so as long as you don't take your time killing him it shouldn't be a problem. You spend the whole game training yourself to never let the enemy get a shot off. In this case there is one enemy that needs to die ASAP and everything else is gravy.

Sharpshooter with a grapple, Death From Above and the Darklance is hardly fair when it comes to clearing out leftover enemies. Add Darkclaw, the free pistol shot and Bluescreen rounds and it's even better.

Oh and I took a couple Majors into the final mission as well. I guess I didn't do a good job of leveling up soldiers. Too much time tired/injured and not enough Covert Ops abuse.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:34 pm It seems like two pods spawn every turn after the initial engagement, but I am not 100% on that as I pretty much play it the same every time so if it is conditional, I might not see all the conditions. Since the avatar teleports in seemingly random directions every time he is damaged, I don't think you draw him away from his bodyguards so much as get lucky.

Yeah, except I'm pretty sure I got him to to come out of the corner without activating his bodyguards. At least I think I did. It's only a vague memory at this point.

You could absolutely be right about 2 pods per, and that is what it is most (all?) of the time, I feel like there was some deviation from that pattern at some point when I had a really good turn (set of turns?) and possibly killed all active pods.

I don't think anything starts spawning before you activate and/or kill the first Avatar? I seem to remember it's just the Avatar + 2 Archons for the first fight before adds start spawning. Does that sound right to you? The first Avatar isn't more than a speed bump, I think?

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:46 pm I don't think anything starts spawning before you activate and/or kill the first Avatar? I seem to remember it's just the Avatar + 2 Archons for the first fight before adds start spawning. Does that sound right to you? The first Avatar isn't more than a speed bump, I think?

Yes avatar and 2 archons to start. Despite doing the fight yesterday, I don't remember if he had the same health as the second and third iteration. I also don't remember it being distinctly different...

I started a game on Rookie to cheese my way into a few of my missing achievements. First up was killing an alien ruler when first encountered. I got a perfect overwatch trap on the archon king, knocking him down to 65% as soon as he arrived. On the very next move he summoned his portal and bolted. I tried a couple things including the freeze bomb and he just wasn't having it. No way I can deal enough damage to take him out before he bolts.

Next time I encountered him, again I got a perfect overwatch trap (without even reloading, wee!) and since I was upgraded to plasma now he was barely hanging on. I baited him into opening his portal, set up overwatch again and got the Not Wasting My Shot achievement.

Two more rulers to try to get the first encounter achievement. I'll see what I can do to maximize my damage for the next time. Actually, trying to get an Execution might be the easiest (if random) answer. I need to go shopping.

I've used a Spark for the first time ever. Hey, they don't get tired!

This is on the back burner for now. No reason that I can think of, it just is. Not that I have anything to replace it, so...gaming funk time I guess?

Ironman can wear down a person's taste for punishment.

I usually send all troops into the right corner for final mission. A stealth ranger or reaper moves in and climbs up on the tower in the middle right. (Not the one that spawns enemies.) He spots everything for me. One or two sharpshooters then unload on the avatar. Move the concealed soldier around the tower to use it as cover and keep the concealment. Sharpshooters again take out most of the remaining avatars. Others help, but they do most of the damage.

Last time I had to move the stealthed ranger into the middle of the room to see the avatar. Pop...pop...pop...dead avatar. The 3rd one is the only one that gets scary. Sometimes there are too many other aliens to ignore. The snakes can be the worst because they yank you out of position.

I think I've completed the whole thing 5 or 6 times. For me, the key was to avoid using explosives and one-shot skills until the final assault. (I believe it was Coop that said this before.)

I save scummed a few times on the last run to get the "nobody killed" achievement. I always seem to get one or two guys killed every time I try ironman. Working on doing it in ironman again now. Early April and still holding on.

Guys this is Steams midweek madness sale game ......$14.99

I just finished a playthrough on Rookie difficulty to cheese a bunch of achievements. I got everything you can get that way. 11 new achievements earned. Beating the final mission with n00b gear was hard, but I did it with no casualties. My SPARK (Matter over Mind achievement - Kill Avatar with a SPARK) had 1 health for the entire final room and was attacked 3 times, but never hit. I took 4 maxed out psionics into the mission which was good because n00b weapons don't actually do noticeable damage, even to rookie enemies. I also never noticed that tier 0 weapons only get 1 attachment. There's a good reason we don't use them for long.

9 achievements left.

I cheesed the no soldiers lost win on commander by save scumming.

Thought I'd try again on C/I to see if I could finally do it on ironman for real. Got to mid-May okay and had a covert op ambushed. My favorite sharpshooter had to choose between running full speed and leaving herself open to 2 Advent troopers in front of her, or stopping to throw a grenade at one which would leave her vulnerable from the reinforcements coming in from behind. Chose to nade the guy. The other trooper shot her from in front, and then the trooper from behind came in and critted her. Gone.

So much for that "real" no soldiers lost achievement.

On ambushes I always wait for the reinforcements to drop after the second turn (and overwatch ambush them) and take them out before heading to the evac.

I'm working on the Exquisite Timing achievement now. Taking out the Hunter and researching the weapons before I head into the final mission. The Warlock will be the only chosen left. I can take him out, but I won't have time to research his weapon. I wouldn't be able to use my A team as they would be tired on the final mission and that won't fly. I guess I'll finally get to see where the Chosen show up on the final mission.

Ambushing the ambushers is definitely the way to go.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:01 am I'm working on the Exquisite Timing achievement now. Taking out the Hunter and researching the weapons before I head into the final mission. The Warlock will be the only chosen left. I can take him out, but I won't have time to research his weapon. I wouldn't be able to use my A team as they would be tired on the final mission and that won't fly. I guess I'll finally get to see where the Chosen show up on the final mission.

Exquisite Timing and Overpowered complete. The only Commander+ achievement I have left is "The Few and the Proud." I don't want to even imagine playing the game with only 4 soldiers the whole way. The squad size upgrades are such a huge upgrade in capability when you get them... skipping them just seems crazy.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:05 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:01 am I'm working on the Exquisite Timing achievement now. Taking out the Hunter and researching the weapons before I head into the final mission. The Warlock will be the only chosen left. I can take him out, but I won't have time to research his weapon. I wouldn't be able to use my A team as they would be tired on the final mission and that won't fly. I guess I'll finally get to see where the Chosen show up on the final mission.

Exquisite Timing and Overpowered complete. The only Commander+ achievement I have left is "The Few and the Proud." I don't want to even imagine playing the game with only 4 soldiers the whole way. The squad size upgrades are such a huge upgrade in capability when you get them... skipping them just seems crazy.

Grats on the first two!
I'm with you on the squad upgrades. The only way I could possibly complete the game without those are with severe save scumming, and even then...

I could see doing it with a 4 man squad if timers were turned off. Otherwise no thanks, and even then it would be a chore.

(bump) because this is going to be my next game, and I'm reading the thread before starting.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:05 pmI don't want to even imagine playing the game with only 4 soldiers the whole way. The squad size upgrades are such a huge upgrade in capability when you get them... skipping them just seems crazy.

I've got that one, but not the Timing one.

Doing four soldiers gets easier when you have Psionics and can Dominate a couple enemies each mission to pad your ranks. The last mission may also require a little save scumming to guarantee you Dominate a Gatekeeper or two...

They really do suck the fun out of the game with their timed missions.
Do they want to make a fun game or a challenging game? They don't necessarily go together.

I used a timer mod. It got rid of most of them (I think), and increased the number of turns on the few/handful it couldn't get rid of (I think). So, thankfully, that wasn't an annoyance that I ever had to deal with. The only ones it couldn't help with were where they were trying to destroy the transmitter. I still had to rush forward to engage on those. Hmmm.... I wonder if there is a mod that significantly ups the health of the transmitters so that you can slow down a bit...

Those timers are a lot of people's #1 gripe about the game. I'm pretty sure they can be fixed with a mod - or even in the settings (though I don't know if you need to unlock that first; it's been a while since I played).

No reason you can't have your cake and slow it down too!