Killing Floor 2

[GreenGoo]

I didn't see a thread for this game so I'm starting one.

Nothing to say yet except that it was the early unlock for the monthly humble bundle and I was surprised to find it actually had good reviews. A cursory view of a gameplay video looked interesting, and the fact that there is experience points and leveling and a metagame has got my attention.

I plan to explore the game in the near future. If it turns out to be a dud, I guess this will be a short thread.

[TheMix]

I played two training rounds. Once with the berserker and once with the gunslinger. I did not like the latter; way too slow to reload. I did much better with the berserker. Then I tried one round of survival. I got through 2 of the waves before getting trapped in a corner (so hard to run backwards).

Things I like:
Lots of characters to play.
Lots of apparent variety for the Zeds.
Character development (though it seems more along the lines of the XCOM skill trees).

Things I don't like:
Apparently your weapons reset. You begin every map with the same starting load out. I picked up some decent guns, but they don't appear to stick around. Or maybe that was just during training. Not sure what happens if you complete a survival map and then go on to the next one.

Also seems to apply to things you buy. Again, I'll have to see. But that will be kind of annoying if you don't actually get to improve your gear.



As for the game play, the couple of maps I saw seemed huge. Lots of bright colors, doors, halls, rooms, etc. Very easy to get lost... though I don't think that really matters. Except that on the rare occasion that a zed drops loot, you'll want to get back to it. But with one person, I was always retreating, not advancing.

There were very few lulls in the chaos. So it was kind of hard to get any kind of bearing.

I hope it will be a little easier with multiple people. Because with just one it's insane.

[GreenGoo]

I'm pretty sure the training missions are some sort of hybrid version of the regular game in that some stuff is persistent (xp maybe?) but most of it is not (upgrades?). I know they are supposed to be some sort of truncated version of the "real thing". The game is definitely designed around multiple team mates, with some classes (they're called perks? wtf?) being weaker solo and some stronger. For example I read the gunslinger class (perk? Grrr) is pretty strong, but as you noticed, if you're the only target for the zeds, you can't afford the long reload times. If the zeds were split between 2 or more targets, things change. I believe the zerker perk has some tanking ability.

All this is mostly speculation and vague understanding based on limited exposure. I'm going to try to get some time in today.

[TheMix]

I'll look for you once I'm done working.

The 'zerker "perk" (I know, right? WTF?) is definitely supposed to be the "tank". Though he doesn't get that good until much later. What he does have is melee and, therefore, doesn't need to reload. However, most of the special Zeds should be engaged at range. So it will definitely help to have someone else picking them off.

[GreenGoo]

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but the training mission is just 2 waves, with lots of tutorial comments as you play. At the end you get enough xp to level up your perk once. Seems like you can run the training for each perk. At least I've run it twice now, for gunslinger and SWAT.

I really need to figure out a better way to switch weapons. There are only 4 options, but scrolling with the mouse wheel is too slow. You have a melee weapon, but you also have the ability to melee with your gun. You can block while using your melee weapon, and if you time it right, you stagger your attacker. There is a large green effect when you do. You have a fast and a slow attack with your melee weapon.

Don't forget your grenades.

It is very busy, and I assume it gets much worse with more players in a real scenario. Not sure what I think of the game yet. There are lots of ads in game (well, before you start the game. In the menus I guess) about micro-transactions, so that's not great. I believe most of them are for cosmetic items, so it's not quite as bad as it seems.

In training scenario, time pauses when you're between waves and at the trader. I took some time to look at a bunch of smg type weapons for the SWAT, and man, it was hard to tell the difference. Everything is in bar chart form (damage, penetration, whatever) and some of the weapons were only 1 or 2 pixels different. I guess it comes with experience and preference.

I'm pretty sure there were some different zombie types between my SWAT and GS plays. Not sure if the tutorial customizes it based on your perk, or if it's random, or what.

edit: Just played as the berserker and it was much easier, partially because I'm starting to get a feel for the game and partially because you just keep pressing fire as they come at you. I found a shotgun just lying around, which entered my primary weapon slot and my former primary weapon now shared the number 3 slot with my melee weapon (you start with 2 melee weapons it seems). Pressing 3 toggled between the two weapons. I don't understand enough to know why I'd want one melee weapon versus the other. I bought a Katana at the break and it was insane. The shotgun seemed to fire solid shot so I couldn't spray groups, but it was useful for the "boss" at the end, who was all about fire and I was not keen to get up close and personal as I'd already been lit on fire once.

I welded some doors shut just to see how that worked. One time it was actually even useful, splitting the current swarm and keeping 1/2 of them from reaching me until after I had dealt with the first half. I also saw some sort of stealth/inviso-zed, so that was fun.

Not sure how much meta is here. Leveling up seems to provide extremely incremental bonuses. Was fun enough, but I'm not sure how much staying power the game will have with me. Of course I barely know the basics, so it's too early to tell.

[GreenGoo]

I'm going to play Moo4 for a bit but if you come on and want to play KF2 send me a steam message (so I see it in game) and I'll jump out.

I'm not sure about voice chat, as I don't think I have a working mic/headphones. I can see 4 broken sets from here. My kids are animals. One of the sets might have a working mic, which would be enough. I'll probably buy a new headset tomorrow.

I have no idea how the game handles difficulty levels. I assume it scales to the number of players, but maybe it scales based on the perk level as well? Probably.

[GreenGoo]

I noticed the game has 2 settings for mouse sensitivity. One for regular play and one for down sight. That's pretty cool. I am having trouble finding a setting that works in game AND in menus. Either the sensitivity is too much in game, with me turning faster than I like, or the sensitivity is not enough in the menus, and I have to move my wrist too much (even having to pick up the mouse, move it to the side and drop it again to get enough travel). It's an odd problem that I haven't seen before in other games.

[GreenGoo]

Heh. Well that was fun. I'm like, "what does this button do", and The Mix is like "we're tactically vulnerable here, we need to find some choke points. Wtf other dudes, why are you running around in the open!". Then I'm like, huh, this is a pretty rock, while chaos enveloped us.

[TheMix]

lol



I wish I'd come up with "tactically vulnerable". But, yeah, I don't know what they were thinking. When you are being swarmed from all directions, the only smart play is to limit the number of directions.

I also suspect that my gun may have still been where I died. I'm not sure that any of the other players even knew where I was. That's what I get for trying to find a more secure place to fight....

I thought Vermintide could get hectic, but this game makes it look like a walk in the park. Seriously. I barely knew what was going on most of the time. I thought it would be a bit more like L4D2, but it dials that up to 12! The "specials" aren't quite as creative, but there are also waaaaaayyyyy more of them and no warnings. Plus a boss.

I did try to do some research last night. As far as I can tell, you start every match with the same starter equipment. I also think your cash is reset. Basically, the only thing that you get to carry over are your class skills. That's a bit of a bummer. So basically you have to build up cash and make the same purchases every game. That would also explain why people are relatively quick to give spare cash to others - you can't take it with you.

I also read that KF1 had issues with people picking up the nice weapons when someone dies and then selling them. But comments suggested that KF2 is better about that. I guess there are always trolls, but if you can't take the money with you, then screwing one of your team out of a good weapon is only going to result in possible failure. But stupid is as stupid does.

Definitely means that we will have to learn how to identify good gear that we pick up in order to give it back.

But it was lots of fun.

[GreenGoo]

Grabbed a set of headphones with mic earlier, fyi.

I played a quick game today and afterward I had a new weapon skin sitting in my steam inventory. I don't know how I got it, but there it is.

The medic weapons are interesting. Pressing the "switch to alt fire mode" button actually fires a healing dart. So regular fire for zeds, and pressing the "switch mode" button for darts. The darts are different ammo and they seem to recharge on their own. i.e. you can run out so no spamming, but you don't need to pick up new ammo for them.

I'm seriously considering the medic class because it looks interesting, and I see lots of people running around with low health and they never seem to heal themselves.

In my game earlier, the end boss was a german sounding doctor (so a different boss than the patriarch) and he ended up wiping us. Not sure what he does but he was harder to hit/damage and then he did a large explosion that killed 3 of us at the same time.

[GreenGoo]

Had a bunch of chores to do tonight but I'm around now. If you want to play give me a shout, otherwise I'll catch you another day. I know you have early mornings.

[TheMix]

I joined a game in session. We got the doctor too. But we were able to take him out without any issues.

My next game started with just me... and no one joined. It did not go well.

Sorry I missed your comment. I think I was eating dinner then. I did look for you in-game, but I should have just checked to see if you were online.

[GreenGoo]

I joined a game in session. We got the doctor too. But we were able to take him out without any issues.

My next game started with just me... and no one joined. It did not go well.

Sorry I missed your comment. I think I was eating dinner then. I did look for you in-game, but I should have just checked to see if you were online.

No sweat. Another day. Any interesting observations on the classes?

[TheMix]

Not yet. Not enough time with them. And in the hectic fights, you don't get much time to see how the other classes work.

[GreenGoo]

I played quite a bit last night, and I think I've got a good feel for the game now, at least the basics. I've also read a couple of perk specific guides (user Dodo on steam does a pretty decent job) which is helping with the game mechanics in general as well. Unsurprisingly, the berserker and field medic are amongst the more unique perks, with game mechanics that apply specifically to them. Unfortunately there is no hard taunt (or even soft taunt) so tanking is by engaging the zeds first so they decide you're edible and stick on you.

As you noted, the only thing persistent is perk levels and cosmetic items. The rest of it, the money, the weapons, are just there to give you decisions to make while playing. Of course the weapons don't change, so once you're familiar with your perk, you will almost always follow the same upgrade path (so there really isn't any decision to be made, because you made it 20 games ago when you learned what you liked to use best).

Upgrades are mostly straightforward. The weapons are listed in descending order, from worst to best, top to bottom. Buying the first upgrade is normally a better weapon than your starting weapon. Some weapons have weird differences, like increased recoil, which is about the only time you'd not want to upgrade to the next weapon in the descending list. You can also skip an upgrade and save up for the next one.

Armour is just a money sink for berserkers, as they are going to get it stripped almost instantly when a new wave starts. With their self healing just skip armour until the boss fight.

Large zeds rage, so engaging all the large zeds at once, instead of team focus firing one down and then the next, is a sure way to pain. It's actually better to ignore a large zed chewing on you, than it is to only shoot it a little while your team is elsewhere. Running is your best option.

The perks have combat roles as you've probably noticed, with the sharpshooter doing large damage to single zeds and SWAT doing small damage fast to groups of zeds. That sort of thing.

The bosses are actual bosses, so knowing how they work, what each phase does, when you should pour on the firepower versus regroup etc. I haven't bothered to learn this yet.

Dosh is handed out as a percentage of the damage you did to the zombie. You can "steal" dosh from other players by pouring bullets into a decapitated zombie before it falls over dead. A decap is like a DoT that doesn't stop until the zombie is dead, but on tougher zombies, they stay up and moving and even doing damage without a head. You can really see this effect on the bloated/pukers, as they stay up a long time (although the stumble around ineffectually).

I'm not 100% on how xp is doled out (apart from doing your perk specific xp tasks). I believe the player who does the most damage gets the "kill" while everyone else gets an assist. The kill gives full xp, the assist gives 1/2. A single bullet from your 9mm counts as an assist, so you can get a TON of assists just by spraying and praying. For perks like SWAT, this is actually how they are supposed to work and is a workable strat. For others, not so much.

Buying the medical pistol is cheap and gives you the ability to heal others from range. This works for every perk (it gives field medic xp) so it's something to consider.

Those are just some of the things I've learned recently and can think of off the top of my head. I'll post more as I think of them.

The game is fairly basic. Pick a perk with a role you like, shoot things, upgrade your weapon slightly, do it again. That's about it as far as I can tell. But the combat is fun, the synergies between perks are interesting, the skill trees have interesting skills and I think I'll keep playing for awhile. Once I have a perk at max level I'll probably not play it again, as I can always be leveling another one. I like leveling stuff.

Oh, and you're gonna hate this, but there is no real need for rainbow 6-like tactics while playing on normal or the next skill level. Obviously experienced players are going to do things by instinct to improve performance/reduce risk, but running around blasting stuff is perfectly valid and even slightly more effective because you clear out waves faster. A good field medic can keep everyone up, but if you don't have one, mobility is king. Welding a door can often result in closing an escape route that you might need later. Which is not to say that welding is not useful, it's just NOT always useful.

Which reminds me. Being injured slows you down. the first 15% slows you linearly by 15%. Anything after that has no effect. Items have weight, and weight slows you down. The more you're carrying (as SWAT I like to have 3 smg for the ammo reserves) the slower you are (I don't recall the exact %/pound). In a game where being slow and static is death, carrying a lot of stuff is a balancing act.

Once you hit perk level 10 you should start playing at the next difficulty level. Not only is it harder, requiring sharper play, but it gives more xp (I think just from more zeds) and thus levels you faster.

[TheMix]

Heh, I actually had a zed hit me after I took his head off. I had to back out of range and wait for him to die.

Some of that I knew/had figured out, but it's still nice to see it summarized.

I did notice that there is a favorite button in the store. I assume that's so you can mark what you want to end with and then jump to it easier.

And I wouldn't say I was using Rainbow 6 tactics, but limiting where the zeds are coming from is just common sense. It removes the "oh sh#$, I'm zoomed in and now something is whacking on me from behind!"

By the way, for one of the classes/perks, welding doors actually gives XP. Actually... it probably gives everyone XP for that class when they weld.

Since you were playing SWAT, I saw somewhere that a SMG actually has a chance to stagger zeds and slow them down.

Regarding running, don't forget that if you equip your knife you run faster. Helpful if you are carrying a bunch of guns.

Oh... and based on my brief foray into R6 online last night, it appears that even R6 doesn't have R6 tactics...

[GreenGoo]

Played some field medic. In the middle of the fight, the boss knocked me back which just happened to drop me down an elevator shaft, removing me from the fight. Predictably, people started dying, complaining that I wasn't healing, and wondering where I was. They stopped short of completely crapping on me for being the sole reason for the loss (somehow bosses die with groups with no medic, amazingly enough) but it still annoyed me. Not to mention that I enjoy playing medic and it pissed me off that I was completely removed from the fight by the geography of the map. Grrr.

A 10 wave fight is a long process. Losing to the boss is particularly vexing for those fights.

[GreenGoo]

Played a game as support and while the perk isn't very exciting (faster welding and you can actually repair doors that zeds have destroyed) they do use shotguns, and the double barreled (first upgrade) is great, and the final upgrade (drum loading AK-12 AA-12?) is the best weapon I've used in the game so far. 20 round clip, semi-auto as fast as I can click, limited recoil (for a shotgun. So...lots of recoil) and HUGE damage. Killing a large zed by myself was completely possible in a single clip.

I thought armor was literally another health bar, but it's actual damage mitigation with:

1-49 armour = 55% damage reduction
50-75 armour = 65% damage reduction
76-100 armour = 75% damage reduction

[GreenGoo]

Oh, and that burp you heard? It's the fat, spitting butchers.

[TheMix]

Good to know.

[GreenGoo]

Good to know.

[GreenGoo]

Good to know.

And it turns out it's actually the collectibles on the carnival level. Not mr. bloaty face.

[GreenGoo]

Hey Mix, I don't know if you've been playing this at all, but I've managed to get in a game here and there.

It's basically what it appears to be. Last Man Standing. I say this for anyone who hasn't tried it. it has some interesting classes, some synergy between them and the combat is fun, but in the end that's all it is.

I like it, but it's not deep enough to keep my interest longer term. The game only really shines when things reach a hectic crescendo. I find other times to be a bit slow. Maybe not boring, but not nearly as fun.

I accidentally solo'd a normal level when I thought people were sticking around for another game but they all left. I did it as a sharpshooter of all things, which is one of my least level'd classes, which I'm also the least skilled. I did it by using a double barrelled shotgun (off-class weapon) for the trash.

I also managed a suicidal run with a really excellent team. I did it as a firebug, so I was on trash duty, just spraying fire everywhere. I could not have done it as a more skilled class, I'm just not fast enough or good enough at aiming. If a mob is on you for more than about 3 seconds you're in serious trouble and likely to die, so it's far less forgiving than the easier levels, as you'd expect. I didn't notice a large jump in xp, so I think hard is about the right level for me. Challenging enough to be fun, decent xp, and forgiving enough for my abilities.

[TheMix]

I played a round the other day. I'll probably still jump in periodically for a round or two. But it's not a focus.

[GreenGoo]

I'm not a good enough shot to play any of the precision classes, not even on hard most of the time, so I find that pretty frustrating.

Gunslinger/swat/sharpshooter/even commando require nothing but head shots on the harder difficulties and I'm just not fast enough. Bodyshots are almost always a waste of bullets depending on the zed, so...I mostly waste bullets.

Demo/firebug/zerker are all fun for me because I can just hose down an area and "win". Zerker is overpowered and has the most lvl 25's in the game, so no surprise I'm not too frustrated with it.

[TheMix]

I get a lot of headshots (often the most of the group), but I'm still not hitting most of my shots. So I wouldn't necessarily say "required". Bullet time is probably the easiest time for me to rack up the shots.

The key for me is to switch my guns to single shot. On full auto or burst I won't hit with most of the shots. Single shot and a scope allows me to get quite a few.

[GreenGoo]

I can still do well on normal since it is pretty easy, although I do not enjoy the race to see who can kill everything first. Sometimes on normal I will just sit there waiting for the flood where there are enough targets for everyone.

Anything hard or above I'm just too slow to be effective.

Bullet time is a lot of fun, no question.