Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

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em2nought
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Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by em2nought »

This looks so cute. http://store.steampowered.com/app/537800/Bomber_Crew/

Awesome dark humor video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liqvlakhih4
Actually, that's a condensed version of the video, the extended version is funnier, but I didn't see it and I'm tired so...
Last edited by em2nought on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

Looks cute and interesting, but rather hectic. I'm looking at a Let's Play right now to decide if it is something I want to deal with.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Suitably Ironic Moniker »

You might want to indicate in the thread title which game you're posting about. A grateful Daehawk will thank you.

I'm curious about this one, but I don't know how good I would be, as it does look a little busy.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

My objection is that there is no pause button. Even though each mission is only a few minutes, Real Life sometimes intrudes.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by tgb »

I assume the game in question is Bomber Crew. Apparently you can pause it but not pause and issue orders, which makes it a no sale for me.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

tgb wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:12 pm I assume the game in question is Bomber Crew. Apparently you can pause it but not pause and issue orders, which makes it a no sale for me.
Yes, it is Bomber Crew. Hmm, I've been following a thread over on the Steam forum which complains that you can't even pause it, but now I see that you can press Esc which does stop the game, but you can't issue orders. Now I've had some real time games (sadly I cannot remember which) where pausing was allowed but you couldn't issue orders and while that made it more difficult, I guess I can see that. So maybe I might pick this game up.

And for cripes sake, someone fix the thread title :D
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

Also, you gotta love a game where Steam's review summary says "Very Positive" yet four of the five top voted reviews are thumbs down.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

Well, I decided to pick this one up. And after a couple of hours I have to say, it's a lot of fun :D. Yup, it does get frantic at times, and I'm someone who isn't that quick in responding to crisis after crisis, but it never got too unmanageable. That isn't to say I didn't end up losing a crew on my fourth mission, which I did. But it was partly my fault as I didn't really understand a few things, which now I know. Also I screwed up by not ordering the crew to bail out early enough, so instead we hit the water as they were about to jump.

Also I didn't know that losing a crew and plane doesn't end your campaign; you can recruit a new crew and you get a new plane. You've just lost a bunch of upgrades you bought for the previous crew/plane. And you don't lose any accumulated cash and points you didn't spend.

So I'm going to give this one a thumbs up if you don't mind getting beaten periodically. And while there are a couple of tutorial missions, you do end up not knowing enough early on, so it's important to experiment even if it means losing an early crew or two.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Montag »

So uh the RAF lost more than 44% of the strategic bomber crews. Happy gaming?
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Kraken »

It does look like fun, but I absolutely suck at realtime games. If you can't pause and give orders, is there at least a game speed control? I might stand a chance if I can slow combat to a crawl.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Cortilian »

I am thoroughly enjoying this so far. It does get a little hectic but not too bad. Well worth the 12 bucks
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

Kraken wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:42 am It does look like fun, but I absolutely suck at realtime games. If you can't pause and give orders, is there at least a game speed control? I might stand a chance if I can slow combat to a crawl.
There is a normal speed, which still seems fast at times, but nothing slower. You can pause by hitting Esc, but that takes you to a menu. From there you can resume. I am doing reasonably well, which is a surprise to me, as I am slow as very cold molasses in playing games. Happily you can find out within the first two hours of play if you like the game speed, so you can always get a refund if you don't.
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Re: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

Montag wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:05 am So uh the RAF lost more than 44% of the strategic bomber crews. Happy gaming?
As happy as I was as a WW2 U-boat commander :D

This is definitely NOT a serious simulation. Not when you can select a plaid paint job.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

Thanks to whoever for fixing the title of the thread :D

I've played about seven hours and mostly I'm enjoying it. Yup, it is fast paced at times, but as you level up your crew and aircraft you can handle more enemy fighters and damage. What I'm frustrated with is that I've played the Operation Chariot mission about five times and still haven't beat it, but I think I'm just not "getting" it, I'm missing something on how to complete it successfully. I'll keep trying.

Some things that I was confused about regarding the game before I got it that now I know better.
  • While there isn't a pause button in the game during a mission, you can press Escape and the mission will be paused and take you to a menu where you can change options and also look at the help menu. You can't issue orders from there, but you can address Real Life issues without losing your place in the mission.
  • Losing a plane and/or crew doesn't end your current campaign. You get a new plane and can recruit a new crew. And while the recruits are fairly green (with a sprinkling of veterans), the plane in my case carried over a few upgrades I had added to the previous aircraft. For instance, the armored fuselage sections that had cost me a mint on my first plane were there when I got my second one. Now that wasn't true for all upgrades I had made, and I don't know if it changes from new plane to new plane, but it's better than starting off with a vanilla bomber. By the way, in my current campaign I've flown 24 mission, but I am on my third crew :roll:
  • The "money" in the game is pounds sterling, which you spend, and "Intel". However, Intel isn't spent, it is sort of an XP system where as you accumulate Intel, new upgrades get unlocked. And as long as you are in your same campaign, you keep your Intel even if you lose your crew or plane or both.
  • Also if you lose plane or crew or both, you still keep your money.
  • There are upgrades to the guns, at least the tail gun, that provide a continuous ammo supply so you don't have to send the gunner for more ammo. That really does help.
  • There are also upgrades to the crew that does help in managing the chaos that is playing Bomber Crew. It basically rewards you for getting through the missions by making the crew and plane better able to handle the tougher missions that no doubt I would be seeing if I ever could beat Operation Chariot :doh:
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by em2nought »

jztemple2 wrote: Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:28 pm
[*]Losing a plane and/or crew doesn't end your current campaign. You get a new plane and can recruit a new crew. And while the recruits are fairly green (with a sprinkling of veterans), the plane in my case carried over a few upgrades I had added to the previous aircraft. For instance, the armored fuselage sections that had cost me a mint on my first plane were there when I got my second one. Now that wasn't true for all upgrades I had made, and I don't know if it changes from new plane to new plane, but it's better than starting off with a vanilla bomber. By the way, in my current campaign I've flown 24 mission, but I am on my third crew :roll:
Maybe they're simulating you receiving someone else's plane along with a few of their crew after they've "bought the farm". FYI You don't want the bird named "Leper Colony". At least according to what I've seen in Gregory Peck movies. :wink:
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Sepiche »

Been playing this as well the last few days and really enjoying it. I am generally turned off by action oriented games like this without the ability to pause and issue orders, but everything else is just so much fun, and you eventually get used to all the tagging and having to order crew members around. It also gets easier when you get a radio operator high enough to get the Auto Tag skill. It isn't active all the time, but it works wonders when a bunch of fighters show up and you're trying to line up for a bombing run.

I think a lot of it is that the game reminds me of the old Avalon Hill game B-17 that my friend and I used to play all the time.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

I remember Queen of the Skies too :D. Spent many an hour losing crew after crew. And since I got The General magazine, I also got mods and add-ons; I think one was for a Lancaster, but that was so long ago... I still have my copies :roll: so I guess I could look through them.

And in Bomber Crew, I'm 36 missions in on my campaign, and I've just lost my third bomber. This time I did manage to have two people parachute before crashing, while a third was about to jump. Sadly, they were over water and the two that safely parachuted weren't recovered, while two that stayed with the plane when it ditched (sans the tail section!) survived. My current Memorial Wall:

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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Holman »

Sepiche wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:46 am Been playing this as well the last few days and really enjoying it. I am generally turned off by action oriented games like this without the ability to pause and issue orders, but everything else is just so much fun, and you eventually get used to all the tagging and having to order crew members around. It also gets easier when you get a radio operator high enough to get the Auto Tag skill. It isn't active all the time, but it works wonders when a bunch of fighters show up and you're trying to line up for a bombing run.

I think a lot of it is that the game reminds me of the old Avalon Hill game B-17 that my friend and I used to play all the time.
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FWIW, Legion Wargames has recently published an update/successor to B-17 called Target for Today. Reviews at BoardGameGeek seem pretty good.

They also have a Pacific B-29 version, and they're developing a slightly more tactical B-26/B-25 sequel.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

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Yikes! Those prices!

I think I still have the B-17 one show above. Got a lot of gameplay from it.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by tgb »

Reading about this just makes me want to reinstall Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

tgb wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:32 pm Reading about this just makes me want to reinstall Grigsby's Eagle Day to Bombing the Reich
Oh, you just had to mention that, didn't you? Now I want to as well. :roll:

I will mention that I've rather burned out on the game after eleven hours. I've played 38 missions on my initial campaign. As I mentioned, I lost my third plane, so I had to recruit a new crew and spend some money kitting them out, plus adding a few desired upgrades to the new (abet somewhat upgraded plane). I then played my 37th mission, which was a milk run, but while I was scanning all around, trying to tag all the mass of fighters attacking me, my pilot was knocked unconscious and I missed that and it went into the drink. Since it was a new plane and crew and I didn't have the cash to spend on sea survival, I lost the whole crew. Again :( .

So I got a new crew for my fourth plane. I had very little money so it was a minimum of coveralls for each and nothing for the plane. Again, I was lucky that among the four missions I was given, one was another milk run and this time my crew all survived and I have some cash. What I find I'm lacking is the energy to once again go through the process of upgrading the crew equipment and the plane back to where they were and it was several mission ago. Also on this supposed milk run (short and easy) there were lots and lots of fighters, which I guess is because I'm further in the campaign, in the third "segment". So it is more likely I'll lose another plane sooner than later and have to go through the process again. It was fun for ten hours but now it's starting to get old. So the game is getting put in the "sometime in the future" category.

I'm off to Egypt in a couple of days anyway :coffee:
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Daehawk »

Looks kinda fun. I have a games of flight game pack that came with B17 in it. Fun game but complicated. This seems to be a mix of that with Kerbals. Kerbals are always funny.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by em2nought »

jztemple2 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:20 pm I will mention that I've rather burned out on the game after eleven hours.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by tgb »

jztemple2 -

Don't bother. You'll only be reminded of why you uninstalled it in the first place (clunky, archaic interface and poor optimization).
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

em2nought wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:43 am
jztemple2 wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:20 pm I will mention that I've rather burned out on the game after eleven hours.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by naednek »

Is this worth $11? Or does it get tiresome after a bit
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

naednek wrote: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:03 pm Is this worth $11? Or does it get tiresome after a bit
On the basis I usually use of cost versus time played (one dollar per hour of gameplay), I'd say it's worth it. It is fun early on and even when it starts to get a bit frustrating later in the campaign, you can always take the lessons you have learned and use them in a second campaign, rather than continuing the first one. I'd say the biggest mistake of my first, and so far only campaign, was to take on the "big boss" missions (the ones that upon completion allowed you to advance to the next segment of the campaign) too soon. I should have stuck with the shorter, easier ones until I had really gotten a truly tricked out crew and bomber. As I said, I might do that on the next campaign.

Will it get tiresome after a bit? I'd say yes to that, I did find myself getting weary of going through the same preps and procedure each mission. I think that a player will recognize that at a certain point the frustration of the current campaign is starting to outweigh the fun and it is time to put the game away for a while and then start a new campaign.

By the way, by happenstance I am currently reading Enemy Coast Ahead, a memoir by Guy Gibson, the man who lead the Dambusters raid. The book was released in 1944, during the war, but is great reading.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by MonkeyFinger »

Holman wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:28 pm
Sepiche wrote: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:46 am Been playing this as well the last few days and really enjoying it. I am generally turned off by action oriented games like this without the ability to pause and issue orders, but everything else is just so much fun, and you eventually get used to all the tagging and having to order crew members around. It also gets easier when you get a radio operator high enough to get the Auto Tag skill. It isn't active all the time, but it works wonders when a bunch of fighters show up and you're trying to line up for a bombing run.

I think a lot of it is that the game reminds me of the old Avalon Hill game B-17 that my friend and I used to play all the time.
Enlarge Image
FWIW, Legion Wargames has recently published an update/successor to B-17 called Target for Today. Reviews at BoardGameGeek seem pretty good.

They also have a Pacific B-29 version, and they're developing a slightly more tactical B-26/B-25 sequel.
And... you just cost me $75. I LOVED Queen of the Skies and played the crap out of it back in the day... had to pick up Target for Today.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

New patch with some requested features added... The Halloween Update
OK, straight to the most important stuff - Jon and myself have been working non-stop on a Bomber Crew update, and it's available now!

Brew a pot of tea, butter your crumpets, sit back and check out the new features in Flakfire's guide.

Here’s what’s new:

‘Slow Time’ - Hold Ctrl
We think this is a good compromise for the players who like their action a little less intense at times, while retaining the urgency of the situations crews found themselves in.

By holding ‘Ctrl’, time will slow, allowing more breathing space for quick decisions. A small bar in the top left of the screen will show how much longer time can be slowed for. Once the bar runs out, it will fill again over a short period. The Slow Time feature can be used even when the bar is not fully filled.

For those of you who are hardcore #nopause advocates, a bonus is rewarded at the end of each mission if you do not use the Slow Time ability. And if you really dislike it, it can be switched off entirely in the options menu.

‘Quick Peek’ - Hold Shift
Quickly move the camera to view inside the bomber! This was in the previous release, but somewhat hidden. Especially powerful when used along with ‘Slow Time’!

Camera control keys - ‘W, S, A & D’
The camera can now be zoomed in/out with the W/S keys, and moved left and right with A/D.
This is especially useful in ‘Quick Peek’ mode!

Hot Keys!
We’ve added a few hotkeys to make some trickier actions a little more straightforward in the heat of battle!

Hot Key: Reload Ammo - ‘R’
Select a crewmember and hit the ‘R’ key - they will immediately head to the ammo box and grab a fresh belt. If they were manning a turret when the command was issued, they will return to it and reload!

Hot Key: Heal at Rest Bed - ‘F’
Select a crewmember and hit the ‘F’ key - they will head to the Rest Bed to regain some health.

Hot Key: Go to Pilot Station - ‘P’
Ever get that sinking feeling during a sortie? It’s probably because your pilot has wandered off!
Now you can simply select a crewmember and hit the ‘P’ key - they will go straight to the pilot’s station and grab the steering yoke!

Difficulty Balancing
We have made some changes to difficulty based on your feedback.
Later in the game, you’ll now receive higher level recruits and replacement bombers featuring better upgrades.

Improved Options
Volume for music and effects can be independently adjusted.
You can now flip the camera’s Y axis in the options menu.

The controls options have now been moved to the pause menu’s ‘Options’ page.

Happy Halloween!
We’ve included a few free special livery items for you to celebrate!

Various bug fixes and improvements
We’ve chased down many bugs, fixed a bunch and *think* we’ve fixed a few more.
We’ll try to address specific issues in the forums. Please do keep reporting anything you happen to find, we very much appreciate it!
We’ve also made various improvements, such as speeding up the crew survival wheel at the end of the missions.

That’s all in this first update! Please keep the feedback and suggestions coming, we are listening!

We’d like to say thank you to everyone who has helped make Bomber Crew such a great success. Your messages of appreciation, criticism and suggestions have been invaluable to us, and we thank you from the bottom of our hearts.

Please keep sharing your opinions, your heart-wrenching war stories, and especially the pictures of your bombers, they’re incredible!
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Sepiche »

That's an excellent update that shows a good amount of responsiveness to feedback.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by tgb »

Sepiche wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:20 pm That's an excellent update that shows a good amount of responsiveness to feedback.
And for that reason I'll show the developer some love and buy a copy after all.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Sepiche »

I haven't beaten the game yet, but I have gotten about halfway through without losing a plane or a single crewman.

With that in mind, here's a few tips for people starting out:
- It's been mentioned before, but bears repeating: don't race through the main missions. There's no real penalty for doing the smaller missions over and over to build up your crew and plane before tackling the main missions.
- I bought a ball turret early on and have my engineer man it on takeoff. He usually mans it until we start taking damage or running low on fuel and he's needed elsewhere.
- The most active turrets are the tail and top turret (with the ball turret getting more action the higher you fly), so early on those are best to beef up.
- Buy the ammo feed for the tail gun asap. It will keep your gun in action far longer than having the gunner run for ammo constantly.
- Make getting the fuselage armor upgrades a priority as well. They add to your survivability immensely.
- As you start taking fire during a mission... RELAX. You have way more time to move and react than you think. It way seem like you are taking enormous amounts of damage, but unless you've gotten too far ahead in the campaign you can take a pretty hefty beating before you'll get shot down
- Early on don't worry about medium and high altitude. Until you're equipped for it, your crew will freeze at high altitude, and until he skills up a bit your navigator won't be able to navigate well at medium altitude.
- Don't overdo it with the bombs. One rack will suffice to kill most anything, and there are a lot of missions where you need to drop all 5 racks on different targets. If you have only one main target however, it doesn't hurt to drop your full load to make sure it's taken out and reduce your weight for the return trip.
- You don't need your bomb bay open to take pictures
- Having your bomb bay open slows you down
- Most of your crew won't be going far on your average mission, so I tend to armor them heavily. The exception is the engineer who, especially if you have him manning the ball turret, will need to run around a lot. Have him equipped with as much of the +speed gear as you can
- No need to rush buying oxygen... you won't need it until you start going to high altitude farther into the game
- Once you're returning to base it can be helpful to have your engineer use "Lean" at his station to conserve fuel
- Don't panic too much if an engine catches fire. Have your engineer put it out as fast as you can if you have extinguishers, but you can survive with a few engines down, and it won't explode or anything
- You don't need to put your wheels down until you are lined up with the runway and on approach. This saves fuel and keeps your speed up so you land faster
- If your radio operator is at this station, he'll report when there are enemy aircraft nearby (often before they show up on the sweep), so no need to stare at the radar
- Don't worry too much about tagging every fighter as soon as they appear. Make sure you're heading in the right direction and take care of bombing first, then worry about tagging fighters
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

Those are some good suggestions there!
Sepiche wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:30 pm - I bought a ball turret early on and have my engineer man it on takeoff. He usually mans it until we start taking damage or running low on fuel and he's needed elsewhere.
I think you mean the ventral turret :D. I don't put my engineer there because once I unlock "Lean" for the engineer, I use it quite a lot on the way to the target. This works quite well with your Navigator once you unlock "Custom", especially on missions where you can go over water (like the North Sea/Baltic Sea) to reach a target area. I usually put my radio operator in the ventral turret when we see fighters.

I played a mission with the new changes from the patch and I really like them. Slowing down time with the Control key, even with its limited duration, helps me when there are so damn many fighters to spot :shock:. And calling for a reload with the "R" key works great. Very good changes.
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jztemple2
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

Halloween livery update:

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tgb
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by tgb »

I noticed that in the early missions (still tutorial, I guess) the rewards are the same no matter which you choose. Please tell me this will change.
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Sepiche
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by Sepiche »

The rewards mostly vary by mission difficulty, going up as the missions get more difficult. You'll get more for harder missions, longer missions, and more for missions where enemy aces are there. There are also bonus photography objectives on most missions that will net you a little more.

The variety of missions increases a lot as you continue, and quite honestly the early missions are so short, they aren't a good representation of the way missions play later on. In the beginning you're practically over the target a minute after you take off, but things get more interesting once you're traveling farther into France.

My advice would be to do some of the easier, early missions for a bit until you're comfortable and built up a bit, then do the St Nazaire raid. The mission variety after that opens up a bit more.
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tgb
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by tgb »

Dumb question I know but how can you tell if a fighter has already been tagged? I'm sure I'm wasting time tagging planes I don't have to.

Also there are a couple of clusters of icons that aren't explained in the "manual" and have no tool tips. Four below the list of crew members that sometimes turn red - I assume that's indicating damage but where? Also there are a couple on the lower right I'm not getting.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by jztemple2 »

tgb wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:37 pm Dumb question I know but how can you tell if a fighter has already been tagged? I'm sure I'm wasting time tagging planes I don't have to.

Also there are a couple of clusters of icons that aren't explained in the "manual" and have no tool tips. Four below the list of crew members that sometimes turn red - I assume that's indicating damage but where? Also there are a couple on the lower right I'm not getting.
If a fighter has already been tagged there will be a series of four arrowheads rotating around it, pointing inwards.

The four icons that turn red refer to damage to O2, hydraulics, electric and... something else. Those are there so that if you are outside of the bomber you know you have critical damage to address.

The ones on the lower right... one is when one of your crew is out of their normal seat. Not sure what the other one is right now.
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by tgb »

Danke
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Re: Bomber Crew: Kerbals in an Avro Lancaster

Post by dbt1949 »

First I was excited. Then I wasn't excited. Then I still wasn't excited. Then I was neutral. Then I bought the stupid game. :tjg:
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