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Nioh

All discussions regarding PC gaming.

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GreenGoo
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Re: Nioh

Post by GreenGoo » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:27 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:58 pm
I finished the base game content yesterday. Steam says it took me 61 hours though some of that would have been distraction time. In game stats tell me I died 573 times over the course of the game.
At this point I'm 93 hours into the game and I'm not sure how far along. About 1/2 way I'd say. Some of that is the game idling, but not a huge amount of it.

I just checked. There appear to be approx. 23 main story missions, I'm on mission 9.

So...yeah.

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GreenGoo
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Re: Nioh

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:09 am

I may have hit my wall. After killing the boss in a box, it was only a sub-boss (I knew that) with the only thing left to do on the mission was the mission boss. I don't think I have it in me to make 10's of corpse runs as I try to take yet another boss down. I'm a slow learner I'm slowly learning, and I'm slow in general. Most of the time I know exactly what I'm supposed to do, but fail to do it in time. Sometimes I dodge too early, sometimes too late, sometimes I get nicked by the boss's elbow. As far as I can tell, each boss has a certain move set for their first 50% of life, and when you knock them past 50%, they break out a new move set that you need to learn. It's such an iterative, painful experience learning each boss, and I'm so bad at it, that I don't know how much I have left in me. Knowing that I have to do 50% damage before I even get to see and start learning the new move set is demoralizing.

The game is fantastic and up until now I've persevered through sheer force of will. That will is starting to run out. I've even started a new Dark Souls game because Dark Souls is much easier with its slower and more methodical combat. "easier" being a relative term.

I don't count, but I'm sure it takes me 30-50 tries to kill each boss. Sometimes more. I have never reached 100 serious tries yet on any boss, but I can see that happening in the future. 100+ times I run back from the shrine spawn and fight the same fight over and over again. Just writing that out is daunting and disheartening.

I've tried debuffing with the discord debuff, but the problem isn't damage. I simply cannot stay alive long enough through each boss's move set to make it to the end of their health bar. Doing more damage doesn't make me a better dodger, or predictor of what's coming next.

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GreenGoo
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Re: Nioh

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:42 am

I don't know where I'm going to find the patience. Up until now it has been frustrating, even anger inducing, but it was also fun. Now it's none of those things. I'm not having fun, I'm not angry, the frustration I'm feeling is a completely different sort of frustration. Before it was damn, I'm trying hard and screwing up, I better do better next time. Now it's like, why bother?

I just ran 10-12 times against the white tiger. I'd say 4 of those times I reached his second moveset, which includes a wide swinging eye beam that swings back and forth 2-3 times with infinite range. Presumably I need to dodge 2-3 times using the iframes to avoid damage, but because it's the second moveset, I have little practice and it is constantly surprising me. Blocking (which I tend not to do anyway) results in huge chunks of damage.

Anyway, that means 8 times I never even reached his second 50%. And this is not a tough fight. Or not supposed to be anyway. Here's an example of what's causing me trouble. The cat telegraphs a charge. So far so good. Lots of options, but the best I've found is to dodge forward and to the right (could be left, I just chose right) and hammer him in the side as he recovers from the charge. 9 times out of 10 he lands and continues to face the direction of the charge. 1 time out of 10 he lands and spins around all in one move. Often 180 degrees, but sometimes less. What happens to my dodge is that because I'm locked on the boss, and my camera moves relative to the direction of the boss, and my dodge is relative to my camera, when the boss is not where I expect him to be, my dodge will often land right in front of him. So I'm happily dodging and combo'ing, dodging and combo'ing, then for no discernible reason, he'll land funny, the camera will spin wildly, and my dodge will either fail completely or I will end up in front of him where he swipes pretty hard. I can often recover from even this, dodging his swipes. But not often enough.

If I just spammed healing pots I could make it much farther, but then I'll die anyway as I learn his second moveset, and you have a finite number of pots. Eventually I'm gonna run dry and that'll leave me short of the next boss.

I realize this is pure whining, and that I need to "git gud". I may simply not be cut out for this, and that's the worst part of all of it. I may have reached a game that I can't beat, because it takes me too long to figure everything out and then even longer to utilize that knowledge. I have no doubt that I will, one day, defeat this boss. I'll do everything exactly as I have been doing, but instead of screwing up the timing, or getting hosed by a camera angle change, or because the boss picks his easier to predict moves instead of some of the harder ones, I'll get through it. At which point, so what? I don't think I have *ever* felt satisfaction at beating a boss in this game. Relief? Sure. Happiness or satisfaction? No way. Fighting the same fight 10's of times and finally getting through it one time just doesn't seem to be satisfying. It feels like luck. Like, *this time* I didn't get screwed over or dodge too slowly. To me the dodge feels the same when I succeed or when I fail. I anticipate the move and dodge. Whoops, didn't work. Whoops, didn't work. Whoops, didn't work. Whoops, didn't work. Hey, it worked. Move on to the next boss move, repeat.

Hurray.

I so desperately want to keep playing the game. The regular mobs are maybe a bit too easy, but they are fun. I think I might just be too old to handle the razor thin (to me anyway) margins of error. Rarely (although the multi-swing eyebeam is one) do I not know what I need to do, I just fail to do it.

I apologize for the negativity, I'm just venting my spleen. I can't bring myself to spend hours running from the shrine back to the boss any more. That I might have to forget about playing the game sucks.

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GreenGoo
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Re: Nioh

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:48 am

To give you an idea about how long it takes me to defeat a boss, I can often reach maximum familiarity with several weapons from when I start fighting the boss, to when I finally defeat the boss. Several. Like, more than 2.

edit: I just realized something. For some reason, sometimes, the camera doesn't reposition directly behind you towards your target. Sometimes it's slightly off center, like it's looking over your shoulder instead of over the top of your head. This changes a bunch of things, including perspective and anticipation of angles. That's fucked up. It's not the reason I'm having trouble, but it is part of the reason. I spent several dodges examining the effect, and trying to get the camera to "straighten up". Eventually it did, but as far as I could tell, it was just randomly broken and then randomly fixed. It wasn't pushed to the side because I had my back against something that was blocking it, as sometimes happens in games like resident evil/silent hill. It's just...misaligned. Grrr.

edit2: I've turned off "auto avoid obstacles" just in case I'm wrong and it is because objects are screwing with it.
edit3: That's not the problem, and I'm too used to the setting being on that it's screwing with my normal play. back on it goes.
edit4: And it crashed in the middle of the fight. It was too early to tell if it was going to be a good attempt or not, but that's enough for me to put it on the shelf for the rest of the night.

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coopasonic
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Re: Nioh

Post by coopasonic » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:32 pm

I just want to mention that you are being heard. There is just not much I can say in response. Each time you bitch I am tempted to start the game up again. I thought I should point out that after you finish the game there is a fight available that has White Tiger with two other hard enemies (I can't remember the exact enemies, but some type of bird thing as I recall) in the same location. I spent a good bit of time trying to defeat that, but I don't think I ever did... dammit I am *this* close to reinstalling.
-Coop

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GreenGoo
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Re: Nioh

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:32 pm

Turns out I was doing it wrong.

Got pissed off enough that I said f**ck it, and decided to stick to White Tiger like glue, never disengaging unless I had absolutely no choice. 5 attempts later it was dead.

:roll:

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GreenGoo
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Re: Nioh

Post by GreenGoo » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:47 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:32 pm
I just want to mention that you are being heard. There is just not much I can say in response. Each time you bitch I am tempted to start the game up again. I thought I should point out that after you finish the game there is a fight available that has White Tiger with two other hard enemies (I can't remember the exact enemies, but some type of bird thing as I recall) in the same location. I spent a good bit of time trying to defeat that, but I don't think I ever did... dammit I am *this* close to reinstalling.
Tengu.

They are a fight all by themselves, but if you have room to maneuver they are relatively easy. I mean, they are tougher than fiends and such, but you do need to engage in tactics for multiple attack sequences before you can finish them. They are like 1/4 or 1/8 bosses, in that you actually need to dodge and stay mobile, but they don't have the hp. The first time you see them is the sub-mission after Umi Bozu, which is the last of a series of waves.

The first sub-mission after White Tiger has you fighting a Tengu supported by 2 Mages, who are also summoners if you let them get a chance. I couldn't do that fight without splitting them and fighting them separately. I sure am excited to fight 2 Tengu and White Tiger at the same time. :?

I feel kind of bad about venting like I did, but I was at the end of my rope. I never did look up how others were defeating him, but I will in the future. I can't be doing that for the next 14 bosses + additional sub-bosses. I think the game said I died 71 times (which was over the span of 3 days) before I finally beat him. I'm not even embarrassed, much. Of course it is just ridiculous, because quite honestly he was one of the easier bosses up until now. I just kept getting f**ked over by missing my dodges by a single iframe, or a fast camera reposition that messed with my dodge direction. There were a few times where I dodged *through* the body of the tiger, but you don't have enough iframes, so I made it 1/2 way through, and died inside the tiger. Was pretty funny to watch.

The fight *seemed* like it was an engage/disengage/engage fight, like many of them are, but in this case I only ever had to leave melee range when it was doing a AoE spin move. By the time I got it down to 25% I just living weaponed the hell out of it, but it had a sliver left, so I threw 3 fire shurikens at it and it died.

I have 30 unspent samurai points. :oops: In my defense (again) a lot of the skills are just extra attacks on the end of combinations and other utility type skills. I did look into spending some of them and nothing I saw was immediately helpful in the boss fight.

I also have a few ninjutsu and Onmyo points.

Being a generalist is not as fun as it was at first. I don't have a plan going forward.

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