Stadia - Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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Stadia - Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by Daehawk »

Think I got it time stamped right. So is this the future? We went from Disks and no hard drives to hard drives and physical media to digital downloads and perhaps now streaming?

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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by Isgrimnur »

Time stamp didn't make it through.

It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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Daehawk wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:14 pm Think I got it time stamped right. So is this the future? We went from Disks and no hard drives to hard drives and physical media to digital downloads and perhaps now streaming?
We've had it for a while. Playstation 4 has had it for a while now. And someday? Maybe. We're not there yet, though. Not with broadband the way it is today.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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No thanks. Hard pass.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by naednek »

i'm very interested. It this should be the next step forward. Sony and MS won't like it because it means no longer controlling the hardware. It would be awesome that I could subscribe to a service, and play it on any device I want. I no longer have to buy a PC, or a console, and having to buy the game twice if I wanted to be able to play it on either device.

I know it's be attempted before, but Google has the infrastructure to make it successful and reliable. This could be the answer of not having to upgrade every 5 years.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by ColdSteel »

In this scenario there is no more "buy the game". It's streaming so you are just renting all your games. There is no more game ownership. This heads us down a path where people no longer possess and control their own games. It's also perfect DRM so I'm sure the AAA companies would love for this to succeed.

Fortunately, the US in general has a terrible internet infrastructure and internet metering is a real problem so I expect this to ultimately be niche at best. At least I sure hope so.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by naednek »

ColdSteel wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:00 pm In this scenario there is no more "buy the game". It's streaming so you are just renting all your games. There is no more game ownership. This heads us down a path where people no longer possess and control their own games. It's also perfect DRM so I'm sure the AAA companies would love for this to succeed.

Fortunately, the US in general has a terrible internet infrastructure and internet metering is a real problem so I expect this to ultimately be niche at best. At least I sure hope so.
See, I don't have problem with your first paragraph. I'm a guy who plays a game once, or until I get bored, and move on to the next. I can see that being an issue for others.

Modding will probably have some obstacles.

Your point about ISP data caps is a real issue that I didn't think of. I think ISP's will have to adjust as users needs increases. That will take years for that to happen though if this takes off.

I'm sure our resident party pooper, GreenGoo won't like :P I'm sure we'll get paragraphs on why and how everyone else's opinions don't matter. But, hey we're used to that :D

I think if they make this consumer friendly as possible it could change how we game.

[*]No more having to choose which console you want... If PS4 or Xbox were identical hardware wise, do you care about which one to get? It eventually comes down to what software is available. Stadia would eliminate that choice and even the playing field in terms of what games are available. No more games based on OS...

[*]No more having to upgrade your components to play the latest games.

[*]The ability to cross play or play on a unified system [/*]
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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ColdSteel wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:00 pm In this scenario there is no more "buy the game". It's streaming so you are just renting all your games. There is no more game ownership. This heads us down a path where people no longer possess and control their own games. It's also perfect DRM so I'm sure the AAA companies would love for this to succeed.

Fortunately, the US in general has a terrible internet infrastructure and internet metering is a real problem so I expect this to ultimately be niche at best. At least I sure hope so.
These are all the arguments that were made about movies. It doesn't seem to have stopped Netflix, Amazon, Disney, CBS, Hulu, etc. :)

I agree with you in principle, though. I also still buy all the movies I want because while my current house has an internet that would totally support streaming, I can't be sure all my future houses will.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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ColdSteel wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:00 pm In this scenario there is no more "buy the game". It's streaming so you are just renting all your games. There is no more game ownership. This heads us down a path where people no longer possess and control their own games.
We've been there for a while. If I were to lose my internet connection, or Steam were to close my account, I'd very quickly discover that there isn't a single game I've purchased in the past few years that I independently 'own', save for a few from GoG.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by rittchard »

OK I was extremely skeptical about this mostly because it seems like I've heard similar claims time and again and have never seen it take off. But having watched about half of that video I can start to imagine how this could transform gaming, particularly multiplayer. If they can really remove latency issues by having all the players only using their backbone/hardware, that alone would be a game changer. But other convenience factors like not having to load patches and download stuff, I've been asking for that for years. For a while it seemed like every time I wanted to play a new game, all my excitement was deflated after spending hours updating either my PC or the console, and then updating or downloading the game. Bypassing all that would be incredible.

I realize this is in the early stages but it's kind of scary to think about for certain businesses. This could essentially kill (or at least completely alter) the high end consumer hardware market in one fell swoop. High end hardware would essentially be obsolete. If I can get the same quality on a $200 Chromebook as a $2000 gaming PC, why would I bother? Of course there will likely always be people who want to stay unconnected and play single player games, but this kind of thing could shift the momentum for developers and consumer hardware in a different direction. It kind of plays right into the old Blizzard software model where you develop for the least common denominator and then scale up. But it's like turned on its head because now its the hardware guys that get to do that, i.e. focusing on cheaper, more universal (and lower end) hardware but selling more of it as opposed to making bleeding edge GPUs, etc.

The cynical side of me wants to poopoo this, but the hopeful side of me is almost as excited as the first time I saw the iPhone live. And we all know how that second example turned out, so maybe...
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by Lorini »

Only the copyright holder of software actually 'owns' the software. You just have a revocable license, so really it's all the same it's just a different way of paying for it.

Dunno about the broadband situation, that's what has me somewhat skeptical that this could work. The other worry I have is that we'd only get games that *could* work with streaming instead of the storage we have now.

I don't know that a lot of people are going to be crying because they won't need a hard drive, but you'll still need a device, and I do wonder if a graphics card or some way to update the graphics will be available.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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Lorini wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:10 pm Only the copyright holder of software actually 'owns' the software. You just have a revocable license, so really it's all the same it's just a different way of paying for it.

They've been pushing that angle since physical copies were still a thing to try and block second hand sales (I seem to recall a few lawsuits against EBGames and/or GameStop over it.) The difference was that back in the 90s they could say that my copy of, say, Baldur's Gate was a license only, but they couldn't revoke the disks sitting on my desk. Now they just have to turn off the authentication server, or block keys, or discontinue games that are no longer profitable (this already happens, and regularly.)
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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Google could have the best technology in the world, but it won't mean much if the infrastructure can't support it. The sad reality is that the quality of access varies greatly wherever you are, and providers love to throttle. I see companies claiming that it's the future, and maybe it is, but at the moment I don't think we're there yet.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by hitbyambulance »

i was in the beta for this - it worked surprisingly well, to the point where i forgot that the title i was testing (AssCreed: Odyssey, which you'd get for free after the beta was over) was actually being streamed and wasn't installed on the hard drive. i'm pretty sure the graphics were also better than what my video card could put out. you could plug in whatever USB controller you wanted and it would autodetect and work as intended.

however, as mentioned above, the data usage was Really Quite High (9-15GB/hour? not sure if i'm remembering correctly).

AAA puglishers love this, as it's the end of piracy. Gooble loves this for all the embedded advertising and trackers they can implement.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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hitbyambulance wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:43 am Gooble loves this for all the embedded advertising and trackers they can implement.
And that's why I don't have a Google account. They've shown over and over that they can't be trusted with people's data. I certainly won't use something like this that is owned and operated by them.

I don't think most people realize just how large the areas of the US are that don't have broadband internet. And even some of the broadband carriers meter and throttle data. Even more so for mobile carriers. I think that alone will limit this to just some of the big market areas on the east and west coasts.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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Rumpy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:40 am Google could have the best technology in the world, but it won't mean much if the infrastructure can't support it. The sad reality is that the quality of access varies greatly wherever you are, and providers love to throttle. I see companies claiming that it's the future, and maybe it is, but at the moment I don't think we're there yet.
Um, Google Fiber to the rescue. Oh, you don't have it because municipalities support their local monopoly/duopoly? Well, put the pressure on them. Google is big enough to create a gaming service just to create the want for what they're really trying to sell.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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ColdSteel wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:04 am
hitbyambulance wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:43 am Gooble loves this for all the embedded advertising and trackers they can implement.
And that's why I don't have a Google account. They've shown over and over that they can't be trusted with people's data.
Out of curiosity, what services do you consider safe to use?
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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stessier wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:37 am Out of curiosity, what services do you consider safe to use?
None of them, really. I do use Steam and GOG. I didn't use Steam for a very long time but it became unavoidable. I just try to minimize my data footprint as much as possible for the services I do use and avoid the ones I consider egregious.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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ColdSteel wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:01 am
stessier wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:37 am Out of curiosity, what services do you consider safe to use?
None of them, really. I do use Steam and GOG. I didn't use Steam for a very long time but it became unavoidable. I just try to minimize my data footprint as much as possible for the services I do use and avoid the ones I consider egregious.
If it makes you feel good, I guess that's all that matters. With the amount of tracking going on, though, once you use anything, you're pretty much known everywhere.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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I'm sure pushing Google Fiber to towns of under 4,000 is high on Google's to-do list. This is one of those services that rural America will be discovering a decade after it is common everywhere else.
stessier wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:51 am
If it makes you feel good, I guess that's all that matters. With the amount of tracking going on, though, once you use anything, you're pretty much known everywhere.
That's my view. Truly private stuff doesn't go on the internet. The rest? They all already have it. April 12, 1973. That's my birthday. Anybody who cares already had ready access to it and a thousand other pieces of data like it.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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Assuming that it works, this might e something I am ok with.

I am tired of staring at a steam backlog, because I never have time to play games that I impulse purchased on sale.
If I could pay 15 dollars a month and play any steam game, I would totally. Totally in a heartbeat.

As for owning vs licensing the media, books and music I purchase physical media. Games I do not, because they just don't age as well.
I have tried going back and playing old games, even the amazing ones like xcom or civ or master of Orion, and I just can't.
but a 10 year old cd, or a 50 year old book, those are still amazing.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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Blackhawk wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:01 am I'm sure pushing Google Fiber to towns of under 4,000 is high on Google's to-do list. This is one of those services that rural America will be discovering a decade after it is common everywhere else.

They don't care about that, they want to put the screws to the larger urban areas with pay-to-play or other political restrictions.


Tangentially related, I know several people who want to move away from the city (and its insane taxes) and into the woods. They have jobs they can do remotely and high 6 to 7 figure salaries that would go a long way in rural America. A few of these folks are thinking about getting together and setting something up in rural Michigan or Indiana. There is some opportunity for rural towns if they can get a nice pipe and get it first. But I guess it's a chicken/egg thing.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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Yeah my wife would love to live in the country... I am largely fine with that as long as I can get at least 100mpbs with sub 10ms pings and no data caps. I'm not hard to please. :)
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:29 am
Blackhawk wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:01 am I'm sure pushing Google Fiber to towns of under 4,000 is high on Google's to-do list. This is one of those services that rural America will be discovering a decade after it is common everywhere else.

They have jobs they can do remotely and high 6 to 7 figure salaries that would go a long way in rural America.
Not as far as you might think, at least once you've paid for your land and house. Everything is cheaper, yes, but there isn't actually anything in rural America to spend money on. They'll end up shopping from the same online stores as people in urban centers, or else driving to the nearest large city to shop.

Anyway, there are some semi-rural areas in the state that are already a little like that. They're twenty or so miles outside of Bloomington and Lafayette - the homes of IU and Purdue, respectively. Both areas are now as expensive to live in as a major city, but keep their 'rural charm' as a facade without any of the actual rural people.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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ColdSteel wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:00 pm In this scenario there is no more "buy the game". It's streaming so you are just renting all your games. There is no more game ownership. This heads us down a path where people no longer possess and control their own games. It's also perfect DRM so I'm sure the AAA companies would love for this to succeed.
I'm not going back to a a pre industrial culture, no matter how hard you try to sell it. :wink:
Fortunately, the US in general has a terrible internet infrastructure and internet metering is a real problem so I expect this to ultimately be niche at best. At least I sure hope so.
I doubt it. There's too many big names, and the technology is now there. Folks said the same thing about Netflix streaming. You don't need a nationwide gigabit network to make this work.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by morlac »

The limited bandwidth availability actually is a plus for them at this point. Imagine if 100% of the US could have access to this at launch. That would be a massive investment on them and most likely fail miserably. The way it is now they can roll it out at a much more manageable pace and blame the infrastructure for it. I think everyone can slow down on the pitch forks in regards to being able to own games as well. This won't be a forced change until it is viable for at least 90% of the populace. We will probably all be too old to play games by then anyhow and/or it will all be VR and you will still need local hardware for that. That being said I have already bought in to this eco system with the EA premium game pass. It's not streaming but I am fully onboard the gaming as service feature they offer. It is a great deal and had it come out a couple years ago I prolly would have save hundreds if not thousands of dollars growing my backlog ;)
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by Lorini »

Google Fiber is basically dead. The broadband requirement for Stadia will be 25MPS. Which is doable, and even though it'll be higher than the basic internet that some offer, it'll still be cheaper than a $1K+ computer.

I'm waiting to see who signs on other than Ubisoft, that will be the big thing. Is Activision-Blizzard going to sign on? Electronic Arts? Epic?
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:17 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:29 am
Blackhawk wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:01 am I'm sure pushing Google Fiber to towns of under 4,000 is high on Google's to-do list. This is one of those services that rural America will be discovering a decade after it is common everywhere else.

They have jobs they can do remotely and high 6 to 7 figure salaries that would go a long way in rural America.
Not as far as you might think, at least once you've paid for your land and house. Everything is cheaper, yes, but there isn't actually anything in rural America to spend money on. They'll end up shopping from the same online stores as people in urban centers, or else driving to the nearest large city to shop.
When you consider the the power of taxes and also the kind of things these people spend money on, it's a big difference. There's also the rat race effect.
Blackhawk wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:17 pm Anyway, there are some semi-rural areas in the state that are already a little like that. They're twenty or so miles outside of Bloomington and Lafayette - the homes of IU and Purdue, respectively. Both areas are now as expensive to live in as a major city, but keep their 'rural charm' as a facade without any of the actual rural people.
Bloomington and Lafayette and other college towns aren't what I would call rural. I'm talking about a few people buying a few hundred acres each in the middle of the woods or buying up farms. Not a house in a college suburb.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:36 am
Rumpy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:40 am Google could have the best technology in the world, but it won't mean much if the infrastructure can't support it. The sad reality is that the quality of access varies greatly wherever you are, and providers love to throttle. I see companies claiming that it's the future, and maybe it is, but at the moment I don't think we're there yet.
Um, Google Fiber to the rescue. Oh, you don't have it because municipalities support their local monopoly/duopoly? Well, put the pressure on them. Google is big enough to create a gaming service just to create the want for what they're really trying to sell.
lol you make it sound so easy. For one thing, Fiber services exist in fragmented pockets because they are expensive to deploy. Even Google has stopped deploying its Google Fiber service in Canada because of the high cost involved. Many communities that were promised the service were eventually told it would not be coming. Simple fact that we lack options and it's not for a lack of trying.

And even then, the Fiber that has been deployed have been in large urban areas, ie Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver. Rural areas tend to be cost-prohibitive with little return and so often get overlooked. Like I said, the quality of access varies greatly wherever you are. I know of some communities that still don't have good high-speed, some even still on dialup.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Rumpy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:13 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:36 am
Rumpy wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:40 am Google could have the best technology in the world, but it won't mean much if the infrastructure can't support it. The sad reality is that the quality of access varies greatly wherever you are, and providers love to throttle. I see companies claiming that it's the future, and maybe it is, but at the moment I don't think we're there yet.
Um, Google Fiber to the rescue. Oh, you don't have it because municipalities support their local monopoly/duopoly? Well, put the pressure on them. Google is big enough to create a gaming service just to create the want for what they're really trying to sell.
lol you make it sound so easy. For one thing, Fiber services exist in fragmented pockets because they are expensive to deploy. Even Google has stopped deploying its Google Fiber service in Canada because of the high cost involved. Many communities that were promised the service were eventually told it would not be coming. Simple fact that we lack options and it's not for a lack of trying.
Well yeah, Google wants public funds for infrastructure buildout.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by Rumpy »

Yeah, well sure. I mean building across Canada ain't cheap :P

One way I can see them market this is to casual gamers. But at the same time, this market is one that I don't necessarily see making a big fuss about bandwidth. This might end up with cable companies creating a new tier aimed at gaming bandwidth, something I'm surprised they haven't already tried.

Or if Google were smart about it, they could package their Fiber with Stadia (where possible) to offer a complete solution.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by morlac »

Lorini wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:03 pm Google Fiber is basically dead. The broadband requirement for Stadia will be 25MPS. Which is doable, and even though it'll be higher than the basic internet that some offer, it'll still be cheaper than a $1K+ computer.

I'm waiting to see who signs on other than Ubisoft, that will be the big thing. Is Activision-Blizzard going to sign on? Electronic Arts? Epic?
is that 25 up and down? 25 up is not all that doable for good portion of folks just yet. DSL wont do it at all so Fiber is the only services that can meet it and usually mid tier and up.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by coopasonic »

morlac wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:08 pm
Lorini wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:03 pm Google Fiber is basically dead. The broadband requirement for Stadia will be 25MPS. Which is doable, and even though it'll be higher than the basic internet that some offer, it'll still be cheaper than a $1K+ computer.

I'm waiting to see who signs on other than Ubisoft, that will be the big thing. Is Activision-Blizzard going to sign on? Electronic Arts? Epic?
is that 25 up and down? 25 up is not all that doable for good portion of folks just yet. DSL wont do it at all so Fiber is the only services that can meet it and usually mid tier and up.
Down for the visuals. Nothing like that is necessary for up.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by hepcat »

Well, there does need to be SOME bandwidth for uploading all your credit data, your location, your medical records, etc.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by Lorini »

morlac wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:08 pm
Lorini wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:03 pm Google Fiber is basically dead. The broadband requirement for Stadia will be 25MPS. Which is doable, and even though it'll be higher than the basic internet that some offer, it'll still be cheaper than a $1K+ computer.

I'm waiting to see who signs on other than Ubisoft, that will be the big thing. Is Activision-Blizzard going to sign on? Electronic Arts? Epic?
is that 25 up and down? 25 up is not all that doable for good portion of folks just yet. DSL wont do it at all so Fiber is the only services that can meet it and usually mid tier and up.
DSL is not part of the discussion for this technology. I don't know how many people are still on DSL but it must not be significant enough for Google to care about them.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:58 pm Bloomington and Lafayette and other college towns aren't what I would call rural. I'm talking about a few people buying a few hundred acres each in the middle of the woods or buying up farms. Not a house in a college suburb.
That's sort of what I'm talking about, not suburbs. The doctors and professors went about 20 miles out of town - in the middle of nowhere - and set up their own communities (or picked an old existing community as a fix-er-upper.) Lafayette's is more 'middle of nowhere' than Bloomington's, which is more constrained by geography.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by Moliere »

Google’s Stadia looks like an early beta of the future of gaming
Google has some significant hurdles to overcome if it wants to dominate gaming for the next generation, though. The biggest among them is getting games on its platform. Google showed a single new title, Doom Eternal, running on Stadia, and it promised that more than 100 game studios already have dev kits. Google even unveiled its own Stadia Games and Entertainment studio to create Stadia-exclusive titles, but it didn’t mention any details on what games it will be building.

Google is using Linux as the operating system powering its hardware on the server side. That means game developers will need to port their games to Stadia, and you won’t be able to bring games you already own like some other cloud gaming services (Nvidia’s GeForce Now or Shadow). Google is partnering with Unreal and Unity and even middleware companies like Havok, but there’s going to be some lifting involved for developers to get games onto Stadia. Google needs to convince big publishers to sign up, but it failed to detail how much it costs to develop, publish, and run games on Stadia.

We don’t even know how much the service will cost for consumers or when it’s launching — only that it will arrive in some form in 2019. Will it be subscription-based? Can you own your games in the cloud? These are important questions that Google needs to answer, and it skipped past them yesterday to promise more details in the summer. It feels like Google has rushed to beat some self-imposed GDC deadline to court developer interest here, and it’s likely why the company was only able to show a handful of games yesterday.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by Rumpy »

There's a possibility that RDR2 might be coming to it based on some symbols that have appeared before the stream hinting at games that would be available for it.

https://kotaku.com/google-unveils-gamin ... 1833409933

Pure conjecture, but it's certainly possible.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

Post by JCC »

Rural America is going to have some level of faster internet in the not distant future as the cel networks start deploying 5G and selling home internet. I doubt those homes will be getting true gigabit speeds, but they will hopefully get into the low hundreds of megabit speeds. That's what those companies seem to be promising at least.

I expect Stadia will be the netflix of gaming streaming services, with others to follow. So, much like streaming TV and movies there won't be an all in one solution. But, gamers can switch between them to play the game(s) they want to play next. This will probably destroy or cripple gaming consoles and greatly hurt PC Gaming hardware sales (in the long term).

The downside may be the inability to play the old games. But, this is just the pre-infancy of this new world, so we will have to wait and see.
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Re: Google's game streaming service announcement from GDC 2019

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JCC wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:14 am The downside may be the inability to play the old games. But, this is just the pre-infancy of this new world, so we will have to wait and see.
Ugh, that's true. I can't imagine them devoting server space and power to games that are more than a few years old. I certainly wouldn't be able to play my periodic Deus Ex, Thief, or System Shock 2 runs, or anything like them.
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