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Hades

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Zaxxon
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Maybe this will help as another opinion:


Skinypupy wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:55 amIf I lose to a boss, I want to be able to fight that boss again right away, not have to start over and spend 20 minutes fighting back to the boss...only to lose to him again. That sort of gameplay loop tends to frustrate me pretty quickly, but Hades manages it better than nearly any other game I've played.
I totally get that. For me, I've enjoyed the from-the-start replays since the whole individual run thing is pretty short (it is a rogue-like after-all), and starting over lets me try different weapon/keepsake/boon combos which to this point I've not gotten bored with. I'm actually loving the fact that my strategy is only partially determined by me prior to starting a run.
I think a big part of the grindy feeling comes from how slowly you gain Diamonds and Titan's Blood (?, the thing that you use to upgrade weapons). Diamonds require some significant grinding to get keys or gems to trade at the vendor. I haven't even seen a Titan's Blood since the second time I beat Meg ages ago. She only drops Darkness now, so I'm not sure how to even get more at this point. I spent the two original Titan's Blood I got from Meg, thinking that those would be a standard drop every time you beat her. Now that they're not, I have no idea how to get more and increase my weapon abilities. I'm sure there's just something I'm missing there.
Something I didn't realize right away, either--you initially receive those higher-tier rewards for completing each biome/boss with a particular weapon. Want more Diamonds and Titan's Blood? Change your weapon. I'm not sure what happens once you complete the game with all weapons, as I obv haven't done that yet.

Side note: I love how the bosses themselves change with different runs. Really well-thought-through to keep the grindy feel lower than you'd ordinarily see on a rogue-like.
I think I've unlocked all the still options on the mirror at this point. Interestingly, I find the all red options to be far more useful than the yellow ones. I only actively use one of the yellow options. I mostly use the gun or the spear, as any of the melee weapons kick my ass pretty quickly. I try to be as active as possible in moving around the room, but feel like I'm woefully underpowered compared to the Minotaur/Theseus combo. I probably just need to keep at it (got them both down to about half health last night, which is better than I'd done before), but I'm not sure if the general structure of replay after replay will keep me going.
Interesting. I like the yellow Dark Regeneration (60% of Darkness collected also restores health) and Stubborn Defiance (gives you one Death Defiance per chamber, ensuring that you will always have one for a boss). I also use the Keepsake that gives you a Defiance per run, swapping that one in when I get to the harder bosses. Net effect is that I will have 2 Defiances left for that boss battle (and hopefully the one following).

Since speed is also a concern for you, I'd max out Abyssal Blood (slows and weakens foes while they have Cast arrows in them) and Greater Reflex (additional Dash). I've also been using Family Favorite (+5% damage per Olympian whose boon you have). Since I typically have 4 Olympians booning me by the lategame, that's a big boost.

After that I've found it's mostly a matter of learning the bosses' move sets so I can better anticipate where I need to skeedaddle to in order to not get harmed but be in position for a quick counter. I also recommend upgrades that include Dash attacks (and tidal push-backs when offered). With those you can ensure that you are actually damaging the bosses and giving yourself some space just by dashing.
Is there a way to check the map before a run and see which weapons I've already obtained them with?

Also, is there anywhere that keep stats on how many runs, how many encounters, how many enemies killed, etc.? Someone mentioned upthread that their best run was 27 rooms, just wondering how they knew that.
The run count is on the save slot, so if you exit out and go back in you'll see it. The rest I believe opens up once you have beaten Hades once, though I haven't verified the exact mechanism as I haven't done it yet. I know there is a master list of all your accomplishments somewhere in the end-game, though.
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Re: Hades

Post by Scoop20906 »

A fun way to see the farthest room you have reached is to go to the overlook of the underworld on the upper left of your weapons room and stand there for a second.
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Re: Hades

Post by Lordnine »

For another opinion, I am really enjoying the game. I do think if rogue likes aren't really your thing, just turn God Mode on and enjoy the game that way, it will more closely resemble a more typical Action RPG since you will constantly be getting stronger each time you fail.

Also, there is an achievement for petting the dog.
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Completed my first successful run tonight. Won with the Aegis, in 56:15.

Cool ending, and now I can figuratively turn up the heat on future runs to earn more rewards.
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Re: Hades

Post by Skinypupy »

Finally broke through tonight and beat the Minotaur. Twice, even. I even did it with two weapons I hadn’t really used before, the Aegis and the Fists. I made it to the final boss (I think...got to the surface) and got him about halfway down before dying. Progress!

Seeing completely new bosses in Meg’s place three me for a bit of a loop. Very cool how that mix that up.
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Re: Hades

Post by Scoop20906 »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:38 pm Completed my first successful run tonight. Won with the Aegis, in 56:15.

Cool ending, and now I can figuratively turn up the heat on future runs to earn more rewards.
Congrats!! I can't wait to see the ending. I've escaped twice during early access so I haven't see the real ending just yet. Nice work!
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Re: Hades

Post by Scoop20906 »

Scoop20906 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:06 am To get Titan blood or Diamonds you need to make runs with different weapons. You can see on the map when moving to a different realm that those boss fights are checked off and you already got their rewards (blood or diamond). You won’t get them again with that weapon.

I think it’s also possible to buy blood or diamonds from the store at Lord Hades house though the exchange rate isn’t in your favor.
OK, a little more detail on this.

The first time you beat a boss with each weapon you earn a bounty. A bounty could be Blood, or Diamond or maybe something else (no sure what the final boss gives now after the game left early access). There are four bosses per run.

So once you have completed a run and escaped with a weapon, you have earned all the bounties for that weapon. You can see this in the weapons room when you are just about to start a run and you have opened the Pact of Punishment. You will see check marks for each bounty for the weapon you are currently holding.

So if you escape with lets say the Sword and you got the four bounties, how can I get more? The Pact of Punishment allows you to "turn up the heat" by selecting a punishment. The 2nd time you try to take a weapon and escape, you need to select just one punishment to get four more bounties. If you manage to escape, the next time you make a run you will need two punishments and so on.

The reason I am belaboring this is it wasn't really clear to me how it worked until tonight.

So my advice, stay away from the punishments until you have escaped with every weapon or add one punishment so you can at least beat the first boss and get their bounty. Good Luck.
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Re: Hades

Post by Scoop20906 »

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:04 am
Spoiler:
Eurydice:
That song really grows on you. Finding her was a nice discovery.
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Got my second escape tonight, too. Used another aspect of the Aegis. Now working on my first escape with some heat.

The ending is really the beginning...

I think the Aegis is the easiest weapon to start with. Its damage output may not be as high, but the ability to block anything really helps out on the bosses.
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Re: Hades

Post by Moat_Man »

Ok I caved. Sounds like something I will enjoy. I like action RPG's so I will at least have that going for me. Thanks folks.
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Re: Hades

Post by Baroquen »

Yeah, I generally like roguelikes, especially when I feel like I make some incremental progress when I die (some... it just feels like I'm getting nowhere). So I did pick this up. I'm in the VERY early stages, but enjoying it so far. We'll see how it holds up.
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Really enjoying the Pact of Punishment / heat concept once you complete your first run. Rather than a general 'now we're making things harder' a la Diablo, you can specify exactly what is getting harder, and by how much. You can also easily see which biomes you've beaten with a particular weapon/heat level combo.
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Re: Hades

Post by Jolor »

I don't suppose has played Asura and can compare relative difficulty? I could not beat that game at all.
Last edited by Jolor on Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Not I.
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

This Polygon piece dropped this AM. I think it's a solid summary of what Hades is like, and why it's kind of special.
Try as I might, I cannot find fault in Hades. It’s even created a calm in me that no other similar game has. Loss isn’t a frustrating experience met with loud swear words and the sounds of scrambling feet made by my previously sleeping cats. Failure is just another step on a long adventure with one of my favorite games, years in the making and well-worth the wait.
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Re: Hades

Post by coopasonic »

I bought this yesterday after finishing up Arkham Knight. I think I have made 9 or 10 runs. I've taken out the first boss with all 4 starter weapons and the second boss with one and hit a third boss-like encounter but it was too early for the boss and I couldn't pull it off anyway.

I like the game concept, but I am not sure it's something I will stick with. It's a little grindy and random for my tastes. Also the complexity and opacity of the systems is a bit off-putting. I'm definitely learning things but I am doing so begrudgingly!

Anyway the Mafia remake comes out this evening and I'll be on that right away. We'll see if I have the urge to come back to this after that.
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Re: Hades

Post by Skinypupy »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:34 am This Polygon piece dropped this AM. I think it's a solid summary of what Hades is like, and why it's kind of special.
Try as I might, I cannot find fault in Hades. It’s even created a calm in me that no other similar game has. Loss isn’t a frustrating experience met with loud swear words and the sounds of scrambling feet made by my previously sleeping cats. Failure is just another step on a long adventure with one of my favorite games, years in the making and well-worth the wait.
Hades is definitely a very good game, but I haven't found it to be the near-spiritual, transformative experience that others seem to be finding it.

Then again, I've felt that about all of Supergiant's games, so YMMV
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

The only prior Supergiant game I played was Bastion, and that one didn't grab me nearly as much as the praise it received suggest it should have. I think Hades has gotten me because it's checking all sorts of different boxes for me that I don't normally get in a single game: a well-done ARPG with tight controls, great art, and an addictive upgrade/loot system; rogue-like gameplay that doesn't feel like runs are wasted; solid writing/voice acting; a smashing soundtrack; the ability to pick up and play for very short periods / stop whenever I want.

I can definitely see how it's not for everyone. Or even how it could be for everyone but be seen by many to be just decent.
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Re: Hades

Post by coopasonic »

Yeah the pick up and play for a half hour thing is really nice, especially as I have been through a dozen different big open world games this year with several more to come this fall.

The gameplay is very good, I just don't find it compelling. I don't *need* to make another run to unlock the next thing. I came up ONE key short for the fist this morning and that almost annoyed me into making another run rather than start working... and then I'm out of stuff to spend darkness on so I need more keys for that, but I really want some more nectar to see some new keepsakes, but maybe I should get the gems so I can get some heals on the second realm... wait I can trade my gems for that key I need! OK then I... on and on and on.
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Re: Hades

Post by LordMortis »

Many years ago I bought too many "Diablo II" killers and gave up on the idea this sort of game. Also many years ago, out of nowhere Zaxxon gave a copy Torchlight II, presumably because he had a spare key. He assured me I'd love the game if I loved Diablo II. He was right. Steam says I put in 132 hours before moving on to something else. I don't know that I the reflexes to play this sort of game but I I've got downloading now. It wasn't $20. It was $25 but the OO effect plus bonus Zaxxon Torchlight II take earns the rare new game full price purchase.

We'll see if I make time to play tonight... I was so close to all the achievements in Renowned Explorers, and I really shouldn't be playing any games. Why oh why do I read a video game forum?
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Way to put the pressure on me, LM. :) Bummer that it sounds like you missed the $20 price by a couple of hours, but I think this one's worth... more than $25.
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Re: Hades

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Zaxxon wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:29 pm Way to put the pressure on me, LM. :) Bummer that it sounds like you missed the $20 price by a couple of hours, but I think this one's worth... more than $25.
My free copy of Torchlight II was worth more than $25 when it all shook out, so this game will be what it will be. (It also helps that we both put in too much time in to Slay the Spire, which was actually brought me in to read this thread)
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Re: Hades

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LordMortis wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:36 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:29 pm Way to put the pressure on me, LM. :) Bummer that it sounds like you missed the $20 price by a couple of hours, but I think this one's worth... more than $25.
My free copy of Torchlight II was worth more than $25 when it all shook out, so this game will be what it will be. (It also helps that we both put in too much time in to Slay the Spire, which was actually brought me in to read this thread)
I can neither confirm nor deny that a partial reason I linked here from there today was to lure you in.
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Re: Hades

Post by LordMortis »

I don't think I'm going to have the coordination for this. I'm not even sure yet why the mouse pointer is used when movement is WASD and I'm not so hip on WASD + space +Q + all the other buttons I haven't had cause to utilize yet. This is why I largely stick to turn based games nowadays.

We'll see if I adapt. Likely not. I'd map other keys but the root of the problem would be the same. Maybe it's time for a five button mouse.
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Re: Hades

Post by Skinypupy »

I can’t even imagine trying to play something that fast paced with a keyboard/mouse these days.
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

I'm on Switch, but even on PC I think a controller is strongly recommended.
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Re: Hades

Post by coopasonic »

The game itself recommends a controller. I used mouse + KB for the first session and then tried controller after that and never went back,
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

I'm up to five wins, across three weapons. Unlocking the other aspects is fun. I've found two of the hidden aspects so far.

Best time so far is 39 minutes.
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Re: Hades

Post by Lordnine »

I'm having a wicked time with the third boss(s). I've gotten there like 4 times now and can barely scratch them.
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Re: Hades

Post by Scoop20906 »

Zaxxon wrote:I'm up to five wins, across three weapons. Unlocking the other aspects is fun. I've found two of the hidden aspects so far.

Best time so far is 39 minutes.
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Re: Hades

Post by Moat_Man »

Re: Controllers. Crap. :( I don't play consoles and can't use a controller efficently. I knew there was something that would be a problem. Dammit.
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Re: Hades

Post by LordMortis »

Moat_Man wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:03 am Re: Controllers. Crap. :( I don't play consoles and can't use a controller efficently. I knew there was something that would be a problem. Dammit.
+1
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Lordnine wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:41 am I'm having a wicked time with the third boss(s). I've gotten there like 4 times now and can barely scratch them.
Some things that I find helpful on that encounter:

-Dashing even more than usual, and having the double-dash
-Dash damage and/or revenge damage boons
-Getting behind Theseus. He's good with his shield, and attacking from the front will mostly be turned aside.
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Re: Hades

Post by Lordnine »

So the god that makes that encounter trivial doesn’t show up until after you beat it. Demeter is amazing.

I’ve made it to what I assume the final boss is three times now. It actually feels like an easier fight than the last one, but I am usually pretty beat up by the time I get there. The first time I made it there I probably could have beat him but I didn't realize it was a two stage fight, no other fights had done that.
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Got my first double-heat escape today. Despite choosing the Punishment that reduces my reward choices from 3 to 2, I wound up with a kick-ass build. Revenge and dash lightning with increased area, lightning boon boost that generates an electrical charge upon lightning striking a foe, my Zeus shield applying Hangover, and my Cast transformed into Athena's version (slower movement and area of effect).

The Satyr caves were fantastic--I'd let loose the shield and dash around as the carnage ensued...
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Re: Hades

Post by LordMortis »

Pushed through this weekend in spite of my inability to coordinated button mash.

I do not foresee ever making it through with the bow but maybe that will change the more I play and if I find something in need of less precision in button mashing.

I'll never be good at the game but I do find the lots of growth via collecting and gaining the help of comrades interesting. I got as far as winning the boss fight that gives ambrosia with the spear weapon. There's a whole lot of building and dark collecting yet to do and I had to look up what ambrosia does to realize there's a lot more game in front of me. I might have had a chance with what comes after collecting your first ambrosia but I got greedy and hit every optional area, thinking I could walk away unscathed like I did with the first two areas... I was wrong... So I went into the next story fight on my last legs.

(Not sure if/when I'll start God Mode)
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

Woo, completed a triple-heat last night with the Aegis.
LordMortis wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:01 amI do not foresee ever making it through with the bow but maybe that will change the more I play and if I find something in need of less precision in button mashing.
I agree that the bow is harder. Still haven't made it out with the bow yet, but I've gotten close a couple of times. Nearly won this am but screwed up and blew my full Aid bar right as Hades went invulnerable, then spaced out on a couple of dodges. Wound up losing with his 2nd bar at about 15-20%.
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Re: Hades

Post by coopasonic »

LM talking about how bad (uncoordinated) he is and casually throwing out that he took down Theseus.

I've only made it to him once.

In my defense I am primarily playing other games, but if you beat the third boss you don't suck.
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Re: Hades

Post by Malificent »

I love how I've done what feels like a million runs since starting (I bought in Early Access), yet I'm still finding more story, more dialogue, new boons, new items, new activities. I'm super impressed with how they tell the story through all these different conversations.
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Re: Hades

Post by Zaxxon »

coopasonic wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:18 am I've only made it to him once.
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