Phoenix Point - from the creator of the X-COM series in the 1990s

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:02 pm

Now you tell me!

Yojimbo · Post by **Yojimbo** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:17 pm

When your mission is to destroy specific targets I find that speed can be your friend.

I am loath to steal an aircraft. I need another ride but I cannot morally reconcile the theft in any way whatsoever. I hope that I have the option to build or buy one - my "family" of 8 solders are having a hard time sharing one jet.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:24 pm

Yojimbo wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:17 pm When your mission is to destroy specific targets I find that speed can be your friend.

I am loath to steal an aircraft. I need another ride but I cannot morally reconcile the theft in any way whatsoever. I hope that I have the option to build or buy one - my "family" of 8 solders are having a hard time sharing one jet.

And I am guessing that is the only way to bring more than 6 people(or tanks) to a fight, right? I have the game, and all the DLC, I was an early buyer, so got everything. But have not started it yet. I keep waiting for some balance patches, since some of hte battles I have watched seem a little lopsided.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:28 pm

That's one of my slight issues with the narrative. The human race is being invaded by a biological menace...and there are factions of humans fighting between themselves. I'm with you, I don't want to have to steal an aircraft or supplies from my fellow humans.

I'd understand fighting with the Anu...who doesn't want to beat some sense into a doomsday cult?...but the rest of them should want to work together.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:37 pm

That would be ignoring human history.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:47 pm

My playthrough of this stalled due to a) Release of a mod for HBS Battletech, b) Mechwarrior 5 and c) lack of motivation. The latter being that I know I'm going to get 5 DLCs (being an early backer) and thus feel like I'm playing a half-finished game. That and my squad got massacred during an ambush by grenade-launcher-wielding crabmen.

I had trouble convincing myself to raid human settlements as well, until I realized that a good chunk of my battles were already against human settlements, just ones not affiliated with a major faction (the fact that they wear spiky outfits and shoot at my guys on sight notwithstanding). It's not like I'm killing *everyone*, I'm just mounting a precision strike to acquire a strategic asset which is better used by me than by these scrubs who just appear to have it fly back and forth with no purpose whatsoever.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:59 pm

NickAragua wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:47 pm he latter being that I know I'm going to get 5 DLCs (being an early backer) and thus feel like I'm playing a half-finished game.

I watched some of the Chrisopher Odd let's play alluded to in this thread and I was on my way to breaking down to sign up for Epic and buying this game this past weekend but then I saw that $40 gets you a basic game where $25 in playable content DLC is already up for sale unless you want pay $80 for the game and season pass that gets you that plus two more unannounced DLC. I just can't get in to this model of game design. It may very well be necessary to keep cashflow moving to put food in their mouths but I can't hang. Sucks to me, I guess. This looked like it was going to be better than Enemy Unknown (which was that last XCom game I bought. I never bought all the expansions and 2 all of the expansions) which felt much too confined and scripted to for me.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:22 am

Yeah, if you didn't get the season pass with the "early backer" bonus, I'd recommend waiting for a sale (and/or its appearance on Steam/GOG) at this point.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:26 pm

NickAragua wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:22 am Yeah, if you didn't get the season pass with the "early backer" bonus, I'd recommend waiting for a sale (and/or its appearance on Steam/GOG) at this point.

Or GamePass... *glances at clock*
*rolls eyes*

*wanders off*

Yojimbo · Post by **Yojimbo** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:33 am

I built my 2nd aircraft without having to steal anything. I did end up in conflict with each faction in other ways as my game progressed.

Getting faction tech lets me build their types of aircraft. The trade-offs are interesting (slower + more capacity, faster + less folks).

Some of the bigger aliens are humbling.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:02 pm

Buatha wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:48 am
jztemple2 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:39 am [Hell]

"Alway carry as much ammo as possible on lair missions, even if your soldiers become a bit over burdened . Simply because the number of enemies means you will absolutely run out of ammo otherwise."

Back from my trip. I also saw this post on Reddit, but it notes that until you get a line of sight to the spawnery it doesn't appear on the map, only a hole at least 2x2. I've looked all over the map and haven't seen something that looks like that. However, I'm going to continue this mission and see if I can eek out a win.

UPDATE: I'm an idiot (again). Turns out the spawnery was there in plain sight, I was just so convinced that it it would be hard to find that it was hard to find

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:42 pm

I decided to start a new game with the lessons learned from before. Also I decided to play on Rookie, as I don't have infinite amounts of time to grind through a lot of missions again

Oh, and also the Epic Game Launcher is acting weird. It keeps wanting to change my language

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:33 pm

Well, this sucks. The Epic Games launcher still won't launch correctly, and when I do get to a password screen I am told I have been trying to sign in too frequently and I'll have to try again later

So I tried starting the game without the launch, which I read somewhere was possible, and yes you can start the game but you can't access your saved games, even if you start a new game just to be able to get to the "load save" screen; they just don't show up. If this crap goes on for more than a couple of hours I will be very indisposed to spend money with Epic again.

UPDATE: I managed to copy my EGS saves to my local folder and I have my saves back. Still very annoying.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:04 pm

Please let us know how it goes on Rookie since I'm far from a noob, but I also don't like crazy difficulty spikes.

I haven't had too many troubles with Veteran, but I'm also very early into the game. I sure would like to know how to stop the mist from spreading since it's already approaching a settlement. I'm waiting for a Preston Newton-type to show up.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:36 pm

Buatha wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:04 pm Please let us know how it goes on Rookie since I'm far from a noob, but I also don't like crazy difficulty spikes.

Well, Rookie hasn't seemed to be much easier than Normal was during the tactical missions. I've yet to attack a Pandoran Colony so that would give me an idea I assume.

On this go around I'm going to try to avoid stealing aircraft or raiding other havens. Those cost me soldiers and didn't seem worth the cost. Also I'm going to avoid recruiting or building vehicles. I found the two I used in the last playthrough to be wanting, without enough ammo and also being bullet magnets for the aliens.

What I'd really like is a vehicle that is small so it only replaces one soldier and whose sole purpose could be to carry extra items. Hmm, I could just use a rookie soldier for that

. Well, maybe it could have some additional attribute, like being a moving shield or something. I'll think about it...

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:04 am

I'm continuing along in my second campaign. No Raids, no Stealing Aircraft and except for initiating Sabotage, no taking action against other factions.

I had my first really tough mission. This is the second New Jericho special mission and even playing on Rookie I faced two Chirons, two Sirens and a host of others. And the Chirons were Acid Worm throwers, which is pretty awful:

That's twelve acid worms active. It was a nightmare

.

I lost two troopers on the level because the Sirens would mind control them and then the worms would run up and explode. And there were Tritons just in case that wasn't enough. I probably would have rage quit if it wasn't that after a number of turns the Chirons both turned and ran off the map. Why they did that I don't know, certainly I hadn't done much in the way of damaging them. Maybe they had run out of Acid Worms to shoot

Well, at least I'm now all buddy-buddy with New Jericho which means I have access to their research, which includes the Thunderbird aircraft which holds seven, one more than my starting Manticore. It was a good thing this happened when this did as I was just starting to manufacture a second Manticore, so I canceled that and apparently got all my resources back, and now I'm just waiting ten days for my new bird to show up.

Of course I had ordered the new Manticore because I had ten troopers and with a couple of more I would have two full crews, but now I have only eight troopers so the Thunderbird won't be a really game changer, I'll still be only sending out one bird till I get more troopers. Still, being able to send seven troopers at one time really would help.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:27 pm

I found this LP to be very educational. Obviously, he's adept at the game systems (or appears to be), and he does pretty well.

For the worms, his third video at 21:30 shows his experience.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:32 pm

Phoenix Point Patch 1.0.54713 - December 16th, 2019

Our first major patch deploys today. It should be going live at about 2 PM Eastern European Time, or about 4 AM Pacific Time.

Patch Notes:

GAMEPLAY CHANGES

Return Fire
Dazed targets no longer return fire
Only enemies who are targeted by an attack can return fire
Return fire is no longer a half burst for some weapons - all weapons now return fire with a full burst

Ambush Missions
Ambush missions should occur less frequently

Pandorans
Some Pandorans have their perception slightly increased. Affected Pandorans may now detect the player’s units more easily

Scavenging Missions
Scavenging missions should now have slightly more variety in the type of enemies encountered

Spotting
Soldiers now stop every time they detect an enemy regardless of range (previously, they only stopped if the spotted enemy was close)

Mind Control
The “Recover Will” ability can no longer be used while simultaneously mind controlling another unit. The effect of this is that Sirens will no longer permanently be able to keep soldiers under mind control.

Story Missions
Adjusted difficulty on some story missions to better match up with when the player encounters them in a usual campaign flow

General UI improvements
Restart Game, Exit to the Main Menu and Quit to Desktop now trigger a confirmation pop-up, instead of merely restarting, quitting to the main menu, and quitting the game, respectively

Cover detection
Generally, more tall objects are detected as high cover, and more low objects detected as low cover on the tactical maps

Full notes in the spoiler:

Spoiler:

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:39 pm

Maybe this was true before, but I'm playing a mission now and I'm seeing that disabling the head of a Siren removes its Mind Control ability.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:20 pm

Finally! I've actually captured not one, but two aliens

. I have one trooper who has the Berserk skill that is specialized in capturing, with max speed.

Also used a technician for the first time. Turns out the turrets you can drop don't have overwatch, so a couple of times aliens just scampered right in front of them

. However, they did shoot at the alien if it ended its turn in view of the turret. And I used the technician's heal ability. Very cool. I might have to convert one more of my troopers to have secondary ability as a technician.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 12:48 am

Seriously bad bugs have shown up with today's patch. I just posted this over on the PP bugs forum:

I'm also seeing this problem after today's patch. Today I recruited a priest and when I went to the personnel screen my Heavy now had priest armor and equipment, just like the priest I recruited. However, he is still trained as a heavy. And to boot my Heavy armor and weapon are also entirely gone. This has pretty much ruined my play though.

I would just pass on playing the game until this is resolved. With the equipping system broken the game is unplayable. What pisses me off is that before today's patch it was working OK.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:00 pm

Buatha wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:27 pm I found this LP to be very educational. Obviously, he's adept at the game systems (or appears to be), and he does pretty well.

For the worms, his third video at 21:30 shows his experience.

Dude is alright. He's entertaining. He knows his game. I love his psycho laugh so much that I would absolutely hate his psycho laugh if I were playing against him. In addition to his being entertaining, he goes back and does a fantastic job of editing (at least two "episodes" in). When you understand what he is doing, he simply edits out the repetition buy keeps the flow. He also corrects himself with text flashes if he was originally mistaken or unclear on the live play-through.

I got, what 11.5 months until this releases on another platform and it's discounted with all it's DLC, right?

Yojimbo · Post by **Yojimbo** » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:16 pm

One tip for late game:
When everyone is at war with each other you get negative rep with 2 factions for helping out one with a Pandora attack. This is a hard time to keep everyone happy.

Spoiler:

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:50 am

Well, I hate being thwarted in my desire to play this game, so I've decided to work around the bug I mentioned above by enabling the debug control in the released game by using these instructions posted on Reddit. Not too difficult and it was fun for this old gamer who spent many an hour editing files to do this. I'm now stuck however, and while I've posted to Reddit I'll also ask here:

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:52 am

I found a set of console commands posted over on Reddit and so I was able to update my save game to fix the problems the equipment bug had caused. And since I had wasted a number of hours fixing the problem I decided to not wait eight more game days to get my Thunderbird so I just conjured one out of thin air

. And I inadvertently used a command which gave me ten thousand of each resource

but I've decided to just continue playing for the hell of it for at least a while.

I played the third New Jericho mission which was very interesting since I came up against bad guys (not aliens) I hadn't seen before with new weapon types. I won't go into it further as to avoid spoiling the surprise, but the mission played out much differently than other before...

Spoiler:

I might continue on with the campaign till I at least see the more dastardly of the alien bases, but I'm still dealing with the fallout of the equipment bug so I don't want to get too emotionally invested in this play through

. It is still a fun game.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:17 pm

Another PP article from Rock, Paper, Shotgun: Phoenix Point Tips and Tricks

Phoenix Point has been a contentious game since its release on December 3rd, 2019. Created by the original designer of the X-COM series, Julian Gollop, the tactical/strategic hybrid definitely leans on some of the hardest underpinnings of the original title while giving the nod to innovations brought by Firaxis Games in the XCOM reboot. Released exclusively on the Epic Games Store for a year, divisions were already running high.

Notable bugginess and balance issues continue to dog the game's steps, but if you can dig through some of the jank, there is an incredible game to be had. It's an experience that will benefit from ongoing discussions of strategic deployment, tactical nuance, and general exploration.

We can help you out with that process.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:01 am

Phoenix Point just went live on Xbox Gamepass for PC. You can get 3 months for a $1 if you want to try out the game plus all the other PC games on it.(Outer Worlds, Gears 5, Metro Last Light, Europa IV, AOW Planetfall, etc)

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:09 am

Jag wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:01 am Phoenix Point just went live on Xbox Gamepass for PC. You can get 3 months for a $1 if you want to try out the game plus all the other PC games on it.(Outer Worlds, Gears 5, Metro Last Light, Europa IV, AOW Planetfall, etc)

installing, thanks for the heads up, though based on jzts recent experience I may still give it some time. I need to play with it a bit at least.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:32 am

Do I need an XBox to sign up for this? Seriously thinking about it.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:31 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:32 am Do I need an XBox to sign up for this? Seriously thinking about it.

Nope, just Windows 10. xbox gamepass for PC is a subset of gamepass ultimate, which is a superset of xbox live. Confused yet?

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass/pc-games

One key note, you access games through the xbox(beta) app for win10, not through the microsoft store. That confused me initially.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:44 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:31 pm Confused yet?

Yes. I can join Xbox Game Pass for PC beta, where I need an app for $4.99 for??? Or I can join Xbox gamepass for 3 months for a $1 which is Xbox Ulitmate and comes with 6 months of spotify premium and appears to maybe have XBox Game Pass for PC. Also I could just buy the game for $40 through MS? Wait what?

Still, 3 months for a dollar and quit very well could see me playing this over the holiday break.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:54 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:44 pm
coopasonic wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:31 pm Confused yet?

Yes. I can join Xbox Game Pass for PC beta, where I need an app for $4.99 for??? Or I can join Xbox gamepass for 3 months for a $1 which is Xbox Ulitmate and comes with 6 months of spotify premium and appears to maybe have XBox Game Pass for PC. Also I could just buy the game for $40 through MS? Wait what?

Still, 3 months for a dollar and quit very well could see me playing this over the holiday break.

follow me over to the gamepass thread

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:42 pm

Been enjoying this as much as I hoped I would. They made some non intuitive UI decisions I wish I could remap. Especially with the mouse, where right click is move without confirm, scroll forward zooms out (and vice versa), you can't pan out very far on the tactical map, the nest does goofy things with not lighting up until you hit a magic light up spot and some other nits, like it would be nice to be able to sort your guys or search for the world for dude, resource, ?, etc... you are looking for without the spinning the globe like crazy.

But over all, I'm enjoying the game. It feels a lot more XCom like than XCom did (I haven't played 2 yet). It's only missing kill counts and ranks for my money so far and the pacing for leveling your squad is a bit

. I'd like more leveling over a longer period. It's weird to still be early game and have a full crew of maxed guys just waiting for better equipment/tech to come along.

It will be neat when someone publishes this mechanics of what moves the game forward. After getting my ass handed to me on my first lair and resetting the game, I decided the second go around would see me no scavenging after the first three sites (I needed them to get moving) and not hitting every scavenge site I find, because more stuff!, seems to have really slowed the pace down and allowed me to get a bit of a foothold... But now it's time for my first lair again. The game is tougher than my first try, but my squad is also considerably tougher. We'll see how well we do tomorrow.

I'm looking forward to find out if there is real difference between pursuing the different alliances. (Right now I'm still courting all three, which is likely putting me behind, only Anu and Jericho are both sharing tech with me, so there's that)

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:48 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:42 pm But now it's time for my first lair again. The game is tougher than my first try, but my squad is also considerably tougher. We'll see how well we do tomorrow.

I eventually beat a Lair, but damn it is not easy. I wish you much good luck.

I've put in 46 hours(!) on PP and it is now on the shelf waiting for a major patch to fix the inventory issues. Even then, I don't know if I want to go all through the steps again. I might wait till the patch and then the first DLC. I really do like the game, but after that many hours I'm seeing the same maps a lot and since the gameplay isn't changing I'm holding off for something cool to be added.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:55 pm

I bailed on the first game when I couldn't find a second base in the first ~100 explored sites. I'm doing much better with the second game. I am up to 6 bases. Though I don't have even close to the resources I need to actually develop them all. I'm only fielding 2 teams right now. I desperately need another vehicle, but the cost has been stopping me. I think it's time to try and do some Food>Material trades.

What's screwing me right now is a couple of things I did wrong developing my soldiers.
1) I didn't do a very good job picking my second class for many of them. Sniper/Heavy using the HelCannon can be devastating. Sniper/Assault has been far less effective/useful for me.
2) I didn't know that they capped at 7 levels. I would have spent points very differently if I'd known that. (Oh, and I wouldn't have built so many Training Rooms if I'd known they were useless once the soldiers hit level 7.)

Pretty sure I'm losing my current game, but am too clueless to know how bad.

On the bright side, I'm finally starting to get some better gear. But it's so expensive to make it all that it's going to be a while before I can really ramp up.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:00 pm

After struggling with my first Lair, I did a bit of research.

Key take-aways:
1) The Spawner/target will be in the back left or back right corner. The advice I found was to just pretend you were taking a character there. If it won't let you see the path all the way, then that's where your target is hiding.
2) The enemies never stop coming. So focus on just the path to the target. Don't worry about enemies that are on the other side and haven't aggro'd. If you can get close enough, 1-2 Assault soldiers should be able to use Dash to get there. A shotgun will make short work of the target. Just remember that you don't have to survive past that; the mission ends as soon as the Spawner is dead.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:09 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:55 pm 1) I didn't do a very good job picking my second class for many of them. Sniper/Heavy using the HelCannon can be devastating. Sniper/Assault has been far less effective/useful for me.

The whole skills aspect made the game a lot of fun for me. I also debated over adding a second class and what to make that class. My best sniper had the skill that adds an assault rifle capability, so I opted to stay away from a second class. I never reached level seven on her so I don't know if I would have had the option to go back and add that second class eventually.

I found the cannon to be not very useful. I had to be close and it was a single shot. I much preferred to have at least half my squad carry sniper rifles and fight from a distance. But a heavy with a machine gun was a big help

And grenades! I sure used a lot of grenades. I had my factory turning them out all the time to keep my soldiers supplied. Upping the weight carried for every soldier was one of the first things I did when I got skill points, so everyone carried at least two grenades plus one or two medkits.

People have suggested getting the pistol skill or having sniper as the primary or 2nd class so you could use a pistol if you had one arm disabled, but I found it didn't happen that often and usually if they were that hurt I wanted them out of the line of fire, certainly not close enough to use a pistol. Instead I'd pass extra grenades to anyone with only one good arm.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:10 am

The key to a Sniper/Heavy build using the HelCannon is to ditch the Heavy armor. It's not worth it. You lose a TON of accuracy wearing it. Instead, put Sniper armor on the soldier (at the very least swap the helm). The other thing that turns them into insane damage dealers is to get the Sniper's Quick Aim (mostly for the accuracy) and the Heavy's Rage Burst. I've actually taken out the HUGE ones in one shot/clip. But if you get rid of the stuff killing your accuracy, the cannon becomes almost as accurate as a sniper (well, not really - but accurate enough to take out the head of the controllers in one shot.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:18 am

Oh... and finally figuring out that the game doesn't show you the reduced cost for the Sniper's overwatch helped a ton. As long as I have a pistol, I can use up all of my actions and still set up overwatch. You just have to manually select the character again.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:32 am

TheMix wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2019 12:10 am The key to a Sniper/Heavy build using the HelCannon is to ditch the Heavy armor. It's not worth it. You lose a TON of accuracy wearing it. Instead, put Sniper armor on the soldier (at the very least swap the helm). The other thing that turns them into insane damage dealers is to get the Sniper's Quick Aim (mostly for the accuracy) and the Heavy's Rage Burst. I've actually taken out the HUGE ones in one shot/clip. But if you get rid of the stuff killing your accuracy, the cannon becomes almost as accurate as a sniper (well, not really - but accurate enough to take out the head of the controllers in one shot.

Oh, I didn't think of that. Thanks for the tip!