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Games Finished - 2020 Edition

If it's a video game it goes here.

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Paradroid
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Paradroid »

I rarely finish games because I tend to play open-ended stuff (nothing at all to do with my toddler-like attention span, oh no), but I did recently 100% Refunct which I was quite proud of.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Blackhawk »

Paradroid wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:53 am
I rarely finish games because I tend to play open-ended stuff (nothing at all to do with my toddler-like attention span, oh no), but I did recently 100% Refunct which I was quite proud of.
I've listed plenty of open ended games over the years. 4x games, grand strategy, MMOs, and so forth. My view is that I'll list it when I'm 'done' with it if I feel like I've seen most of what it has to offer. After all, people who list an open world game in here may do so with every collectible and corner explored, or they may just 30% completion from rushing through the story, ignoring most of the content. It's a little subjective, but that's fine. This is an informal thread.
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raydude
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by raydude »

Finished Control main story and quite a few side quests.
What a wild ride.

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Isgrimnur »

Bioshock 2.

I might be interested in doing Minerva's Den, but there's no way I'm going back for The Protector Trials.

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by hitbyambulance »

Snow White: Charmed Kingdom Solitaire (all levels max)
Hitman GO (completed all levels and challenges)

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by raydude »

Finished Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak.

Careful husbanding of units and not letting them die in the early missions gave me some battle hardened veterans that made some of the later missions easier. As a consequence of trying to keep units alive I decided to try and keep my force together as much as possible. I also made the Kapisi carrier run point a few times as it could soak up a lot of damage and dish out damage on its own.

After being burned a few times with not having enough resources and the game telling me I needed to research "tech blahblah" I tried to always keep a resource reserve when possible so I could immediately research the tech at certain milestones in the game. And since the game doesn't have an "automatic harvest of all remaining resources" option a lot of times I would park my forces on a resource site, grab all the resources, then move to the next one while waiting for the Gaalsien forces to try to attack me.

Things opened up when I unlocked Rachel's ability to hack cruisers into coming on our side. There was one mission where the Gaalsien forces kept sending armored forces backed by an HonorGuardcruiser; I think I hacked 4 cruisers into joining me that one time.

For the final mission I parked my force on some hills near a wreck on the right side of the map and just let the enemy forces come to me. The K'Had Sajuuk obliged me by coming straight at me. Orbital bombardment stripped away his forces, and all my units targeted his flagship.

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Isgrimnur »

Isgrimnur wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:12 pm
Bioshock 2.

I might be interested in doing Minerva's Den, but there's no way I'm going back for The Protector Trials.
Minerva's Den done.

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by TheMix »

Diablo 3: Season 21 - completed all chapters. Got all three conquest challenges on the first try with little to no prep. Definitely happy about that. And it appears that 13 is the max number of stash tabs. So that means I'm "done" done, if I want. At least until D4 comes out. Though I may go back in occasionally just for fun. The Barbarian Rend/Whirl Wind build is incredibly OP.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Archinerd »

Supraland. It's actually a pretty good game with a nice mix of puzzle solving and secret hunting. The combat is a bit annoying at times and I wish there was less of it, or maybe even none at all. I would say it's most comparable to Portal, but much weirder.

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Sudy »

I actually finished a game! Doom (1993). On Hurt Me Plenty difficulty, anyway. Except, I didn't do the fourth episode that was added in Ultimate Doom. I read it's ridiculously tough, and I'm going to be an adult here. I can handle taking on the baron of hell with a shotgun on the first map, but the enemies spawning out of nowhere are cheap. I also picked up Doom 2 and Doom 64 and feel my time and blood pressure will be better served by moving on to those.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Kasey Chang »

Replayed Sniper Elite V2 Remastered (technically, it's not a replay, but the game is otherwise identical to original Sniper Elite V2 gameplay-wise) , and did not go for all the achievements. I did find a few more gold bars and whatnot this time around, but I'm not the kind of guy who explores every room just in hopes of finding a collectible.

Sniper Elite 3 is a true replay though, and got a bit more "completion" percentage, now at 69%, as it counts all the optional objectives and collectibles. But I am NOT going for 100%, which, I feel, is impossible to get without following a map or way too much time I want to spend.

I just replayed the FIRST mission in SE3 (yet again) and finally got everything, and that was the short intro level... Apparently, you need to sit at each sniper spot and scan the horizon for ANYTHING you can kill, to get the "long shot" deed for that level. Otherwise you won't see it. I play slow extermination, where I start shooting and then kill all the reinforcement until my zone had been depopulated. I don't really sneak except to get into position. I think I will see if I have any DLC missions, and try those, then move onto Sniper Elite 4.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Sudy »

I finally got my last Diablo 3 class (Monk) to 70, eight+ years later. I'm going to go ahead and call that game finished?

Prior to launch Monk was the class I most interested in, but it just never stuck. I think this is the fourth one I've played. Witch Doctor wound up being my favourite, instead.

Holy cow, I can't believe D3 is eight years old! I remember pre-ordering it like it was yesterday. I'm going to die soon. :(
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Isgrimnur »

Far Cry 3 Blood Dragon complete.

100% on the side missions. Not doing the collectible hunt.
Last edited by Isgrimnur on Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Kasey Chang »

I think I've previously reported that I am DONE with Sniper Elite 3, as that collectible hunt is out of hand.

I'm "almost" done with Sniper Elite 4. I'm doing it just enough to gain mastery over the Delisle Carbine, and that's it. Time to move onto something else.

I've done two out of eight missions, to 100% collectibles, but EACH level took 3 hours to scour the map, WHILE referencing a map. I have NO IDEA how the guide makers found all of them. Did they conduct a grid search pattern or something?

I may do the "kill Hitler" mission just for the heck of it. It may be enough to get me the weapon mastery.

EDIT: Kill Hitler complete. Crushed him with a U-boat. That's it for Sniper Elite 4. There's like 7 other ways to kill him but I'm not going to try all of them.

EDIT2: Okay, I guess I want the gold skin really bad. I went in and killed Hitler by hitting an explosive drum next to him. Was going to crush him with the eagle but can't get the right angle. Then proceed to exterminate the base. STILL didn't get enough eye shots. Did Deathstorm 1 again. Actually this time managed to drop a set of sea mines on a tank, getting a challenge done, but that's merely 1 out of 5 challenges. Decided enough is enough, got the gold skin for the Delisle, and that's it. I'm DONE with Sniper Elite 4. Moving onto Subdivision Infinity.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Kasey Chang »

I am done with Subdivision Infinity, and I'm giving it a Thumbs DOWN, because it is a schizophrenic game.

The combat portion of the game, i.e. main campaign, is pretty good, with full 6 degrees of freedom (lateral and vertical movement, turn nose left or right, and roll ship) and there's afterburners (or speed boost), and there are two guns and missiles. But there are quirks here... You can't fire the guns separately. They are linked only. And apparently all gun shots travel as the same speed, as there is only ONE aiming cross-hair, and it has minor auto-aim once you "lock-on".

But the game also throws you a combination gauntlet (infinite enemy waves) / scavenger hunt (find the crate, in 3D space, sometimes inside asteroid tunnels) / resource management (mine the asteroids) mode called "exploration". There are X number of crates hidden in each exploration map. To reveal ONE of them, you have to buy and deploy a "radar beacon" for 5000 coins, which is a big chunk of money at least in early game. And a map can contain a dozen of these. Then you have to fly there, while under nearly constant harassment by enemy forces, who never stops coming. If you kill one wave, next wave jumps in. AND you need to give up your missile launcher to fit a "mining tool" (i.e. mining laser) so you can shoot it at minable asteroids and watch stuff pop off like candy for your tractor beam to grab automatically. But not all asteroids are minable. Then you realize there's a control quirk... Press "A" button on gamepad to scan, but your turning control is on RIGHT stick, so you can't do both with one hand. ARGH...

And let's just say the scanners can find everything even through asteroids and such, which can be both blessing and a curse, as you don't know how far the target is except through a slight bit of triangulation possible by lateral displacement... And enemies will launch missiles at you in later levels that will just hit whatever in the way, and if you were in a tunnel, the missile warning is CONSTANT and non-stop (and impossible to mute). And you quickly developed the tactic of leaving one in a wave of fighters alive so you can mine in "relative" peace, as one single fighter is unlikely to do you much damage. You just have to avoid the minibosses that show up in exploration, which can be a challenge to kill without missiles.

You do get a few weapons, and those weapons can be further upgraded for magazine size, damage, and firing rate, but so far it's a bit of "meh". You need to spend "gear crates" (blue blobs you capture as random enemy drops) and lots of it

The ships themselves are named poorly with dubious lineage (Tornado looks nothing like Tornado X, and Supernova looks nothing like Supernova X) and differences are minor (with exception of Supernova: TREMENDUS armor, about 10X of normal, paper-thin shields). You can "evolve" your ship but all that does is spend some "ship evo kits" (green blobs you pick up as random enemy drops) and some cash, and expands your armor and cargo slightly, so you can mine more stuff. Some ships must be BUILT by using a dozen evo kits, some blueprints you have to pick up (hidden in crates, thus the exploration missions), and some special elements you have to mine (but most you mine is dirt, which can be sold cheaply, and no, you can't eject cargo while exploring, or only mine the stuff you need).

So to get the best weapons and ships, you have to "grind" the ANNOYING exploration missions.

And there is no mid-mission save. Or any checkpoint saves for that matter. If you die, restart from the beginning, even if you've spent an HOUR looking for the crates and taken down cruisers and more.

And THAT is its ultimate sin...
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Kasey Chang »

Finished an oldie... MOH Pacific Assault. Way too dramatized and condensed for my liking, IMHO, to use the same crew for everything. This guy was doing EVERYTHING from Pearl Harbor to Raid on Makin to Guadalcanal to Tarawa, and even flew planes and shot down enough planes to be an ace. :D

I actually managed to finish it this time. I remember may have finished it ONCE before, as I remember the Tarawa mission becoming a bloody mess of tunnels and trenches and banzai charges. That fly boy mission finally did finish it without cheats. Put 4 bombs on the carrier, then strafed the planes left on the flight deck. Then torpedoed the destroyer. Then started going after the Zeros. Took a while to shoot down 4 of them as they are sneaky and the game cheats. They can make sudden 90 degree turns in front of you.

The rest, in Tarawa, is a bit messy but otherwise, doable, except for the corner ambushers, but IIRC, that was really the way it was. So... that's that.

I am going to be retreading some of my backlog, but first I need to study some ****. May put off games for a few days.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Kasey Chang »

Finished Jagged Alliance: Rage! set 20 years after the most recent product. Most mercs are now tired and cynical but still working for AIM. When Fidel called out a Mayday from an island when his chopper was shot down, someone did respond to his promise of pay. Pick a team of 2 mercs and visit the island... And Elliot is back... and his guards captured you right at the beginning. But someone helped you escape. Find your way out through the sewers, gather your weapons, contact the local rebels, and take on the "guards" and the "black shirt" mercenaries, and find Fidel... and maybe, give some sweet payback... Just what is Elliot doing on this island anyway?

This is not quite JA, but it's about as close as we will get. Your weapons break after firing 10-20 times. Your armor gets damaged after taking hits. You are usually running out of water and clean water is scarce, while dirty water will sate your thirst but can cause an infection. As will wounds... and mercs with weak constitution are especially vulnerable. Shrapnel can embed in your skin and only a minor surgery (performed at a campsite) can remove them, but they can keep your adrenaline up. You also get adrenaline when you make kills or get wounded... and with enough adrenaline you can engage "rage" special power... And each merc has something different. Raven can make 100% accuracy armor piercing shots. Dr. Q can do minor heal without using medpacks (only +2 hp though, but you only have like 14-16hp) or meditate and turn that into more action points (i.e. give him more time to perform stuff). There are a LOT of weapons here, but vastly simplified and shrunken to fit the simple inventory system. You can craft enhancements for both weapons and armor if you have the skill, the raw materials, and some camp time. And you are taking on both the regular army and the mercenaries, who has some tricks up their sleeves... But you are veterans of AIM, not some washed-up has-beens...

And each merc has his or her own problems. Vicki the gunsmith/mechanic, for example, has claustrophobia. Her accuracy drops when she's indoors. Dr. Q is just a bad shot and suffers a permanent -10% accuracy. And so on and so forth, but the dialog feel as bit forced. When you find loot, some characters will crack jokes. Vicki will joke about alcohol being Ivan's secret weapon. Dr. Q will joke about 'medicinal purposes' of alcohol. And Raven calls dibs on any sniper rifle you find.

You start with 2 mercs, has a chance to add a third with a special mission, and finally Fidel to make it a 4 person team with yet another special mission. But that's actually OPTIONAL, as it is possible to finish the game as a two-person team only. (And there's an achievement for that)

The biggest problem is extremely limited "group stach", and looting the bodies for useful stuff afterward is TEDIOUS as heck. There is no "global loot". Instead, you have to click on individual bodies, and you don't see bodies if they are not in visual range. But if you did clear the map, you can "remote loot" (i.e. just scroll the camera to "flies" buzzing around that square, even if they are not in visual range), instead of forcing you to walk up to the corpse. Your inventory "slots" holds up to 50 bullets (of one type), or up to 4 of a larger item, from grenades to weapon material (used to build those weapon accessories). So you are almost always looking for some way to carrying more stuff. tactical vests, backpacks, leggings and holsters... They may offer armor, storage, or both, and often, they can be accessories (by building the right accessories at "camp")

As you move around the map of the island, you may be chased by enemy patrols. But as enemy patrol only has six to seven guys, you can usually wipe them out pretty easily if you are careful and don't get caught in the open. There is also a mission to intercept a "convoy" By getting between it and its destination. Then fight a battle with the guards.

I like it. at least a 6 out of 8 tentacles. There are some annoyances like the art style, the joke about alcohol that's getting a bit old (alcohol can sate thirst, but gets you drunk).
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Baroquen
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Baroquen »

I don't usually venture into this thread but I finished a game. That's rare enough for a mention.

Fire Emblem: Three Houses is done.

I love the series; I've played most of the games released here, and finished three others previously. As we mentioned in the discussion earlier, the "house"/social aspect of the game starts to drag late. I eventually abandoned this part during the last few chapters and just blitzed through the story. The last few battles provided some challenge though the 'rollback' technique they included in this version made my missteps manageable. Despite the complaints, I enjoyed the characters and game mechanics a lot. The story was interesting, but overall, boiled down to a typical FE storyline.

I have the DLC but not sure I'll play it. I'm tempted to play the other houses/plots/viewpoints but also will probably skip.

Overall grade: A-

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Kasey Chang »

Finished MOH:Warfighter (again). I'm also calling it quits on V-Rally 4 and Sebastian Loeb Rally Evo.

I'll probably try to play Mercenaries 2 and Battlefield 3 (yes, they are all on Origin). I think I played a few missions in M2, and never really played B3's single player.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Kasey Chang »

I am starting to remember why I quit playing Mercenaries 2... infinite enemies unless you manage to move into a different area. It was trying to do GTA / Just Cause, and it lacks the reputation system or the destruction schtick to make that worthwhile. Sure, you can blow up buildings and whatnot, but unless you're in a tank (and you need to play a QT segment for that) you lack the firepower. THEN there's the aiming problem, as aiming with a gamepad is horrible (autoaim is not good enough) and while aiming with mouse solves that problem, it's impossible to do the quicktime events with it.

For example: the first mission is to take over the enemy villa and make it our base of operations. You do this by killing the ten entourage inside, and take out the extra soldiers too. But somehow, there was no reinforcements. I get infinite number of jeeps coming in if I managed to kill them just outside villa gates, but once I'm inside, no more reinforcements. Hmmm... And they never really try to send forces so I have to defend the villa. Hah, maybe it's one of the later missions.

I am pretty much giving up on this game (again)

Also tried Cold War, and I have to say, one of the more frustrating stealth games I played. Mappings and game mechanics don't follow standard FPS or third-person action mappings for no particular reason.

Moving to Battlefield 3's Solo Campaign. I've seen other people play through the plot, and I'd say it's quite a bit of fun. Just survived the Earthquake and got evac'ed. Onto the air mission.

EDIT: Finished B3's Solo campaign. It's a fun ride, and actually does teach you a bit about how the battle is supposed to go. FLANKING is almost required to advance, unless you're locked in place for one of those "Alamo" scenarios manning a fixed turret. I don't like the launcher though... It actually launches an EA webpage which somehow opens origin link to my HD.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by pinstripe »

Finished Red Dead 2 yesterday https://store.steampowered.com/app/1174 ... emption_2/ One of the best games I have ever played. Trying to get 100% completion by hunting the legendary animals etc, online a bit of a led down but WOW what a story

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by raydude »

I finished Firewatch. Interesting game. I thought it was a commentary on what we'd do if no one was looking. I picked up all the beer cans because, fuck trash, and I would put things back where I found them because that's what I would want to see others do in real life. I also argued against starting a forest fire and didn't try to find the teens to seek retribution, but because I thought they weren't the ones behind the cut wire. I actually thought someone was trying to frame them.

Yes, I did find myself getting attracted to Delilah but I did put the wedding ring back on. Then when she bugged out instead of waiting for me I decided she was not the person to be with. So in the end I suggested she go be with her sister in Santa Fe and I decided to go see Julia.

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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Isgrimnur »

Crysis.

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Kasey Chang
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Kasey Chang »

I am done with Void Bastard for now. It is interesting in that by randomizing some variables the game can be made to fit wide variety of difficulty levels, and I can see the whole thing is a lot of puns (half of the items you collect are sex jokes). It was fun in short bursts. As it does get a LITTLE repetitive, esp. when all the factors are stacked against you.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Blackhawk »

I'd fallen really behind. I just updated my list with:

Strange Brigade - did another run in cooperative with OO folks. Good game, good use the 1930s cliffhanger theme.

World War Z - also in co-op, both with OOers and with my kids. We've probably finished this one enough times to qualify for five or six 'finished' checkmarks. It's essentially Left 4 Dead 3, and we've had a lot of fun with it.

Dungeon Defenders - the original. I've played this one solo and co-op with OOers this year, and have probably completed the campaign six or more times, from Medium to Nightmare. I've really been enjoying this tongue-in-cheek tower defense/action hybrid.

Metro Exodus - I finally finished all three games, and all three were fantastic. This one was beautiful, too. It felt a little rushed at the end, but was long enough that I wasn't really bothered. Highly recommended.

Mafia 2 - It's Mafia 2. Good game, not a great game. I'd played it years ago on the PS3 (or the 360 - one or the other.)

Tick Tock: A Tale for Two - Played this with Bad Demographic. It's a fun two-player cooperative game that doesn't require the clients to connect. It's a point-and-click style puzzle/adventure title. Player 1 and Player 2 are each sent through a completely different set of screens. Sometimes one person sees one side of the room, the second person the other. Or they see completely different area. But in order for either to get through they have to describe what they're seeing to each other, as the clues to solving the puzzles are mixed between the two players. It was only about three hours long, but we had a lot of fun.

The big story this year is how many games I've bounced off of in 2020. A lot of that I'm putting down to 2020 stress, but the list of games that I can recall either starting and burning out on or starting and just not getting in to were:

Grimrock 2
Kingdom Come: Deliverance
Conan Exiles
Fallout 76
Wolfenstein: The Old Blood
American Truck Simulator
Saints Row 4
World of Warcraft
The Outer Worlds
The Outer Wilds
Red Dead Dead Redemption 2
No Man's Sky
Warframe
Everspace
Ryse: Son of Rome
Monster Hunter World
Skyrim

A lot of those I liked and will be getting back to, but just couldn't get into (Kingdom Come, Wolfenstein, Warframe, Skyrim, Outer Wilds, others), a few I played a good bit but burned out before the end (WoW, Conan, No Man's Sky), and a few I just didn't like (Outer Worlds, Monster Hunter World.) Seriously, though, Monster Hunter World, who thought it was a good idea to have a game with times missions that you can't save, can't pause, and can't quit - seriously, you have to Ctrl-Alt-Delete to quit the game if you're on a mission, as it doesn't allow you to quit.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by coopasonic »

Blackhawk wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:16 am
Seriously, though, Monster Hunter World, who thought it was a good idea to have a game with times missions that you can't save, can't pause, and can't quit - seriously, you have to Ctrl-Alt-Delete to quit the game if you're on a mission, as it doesn't allow you to quit.
I don't have it installed now to check but there should be two different options, Leave Quest and Abandon Quest. One takes you back the the state before you started the quest, getting back anything you used but losing anything you gained, the other does the opposite. It isn't in an obvious place, but I can't pull it up to check.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by Blackhawk »

coopasonic wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:23 am
Blackhawk wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:16 am
Seriously, though, Monster Hunter World, who thought it was a good idea to have a game with times missions that you can't save, can't pause, and can't quit - seriously, you have to Ctrl-Alt-Delete to quit the game if you're on a mission, as it doesn't allow you to quit.
I don't have it installed now to check but there should be two different options, Leave Quest and Abandon Quest. One takes you back the the state before you started the quest, getting back anything you used but losing anything you gained, the other does the opposite. It isn't in an obvious place, but I can't pull it up to check.
I had a lot more issues with it than that, from graphics settings (every third setting made things blurry) to the controls (it wouldn't let me bind some of the keyboard keys - ], [ - that I use for my mouse side buttons unless I rebound the mouse buttons, which would break the controls for every other game on my system), to a handful of other things I only barely remember. It was a prime example of developers insisting that you play the game the way they want you to - their timing, their controls, etc - regardless of whether it was practical for you.
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coopasonic
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

Post by coopasonic »

Blackhawk wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:36 am
coopasonic wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:23 am
Blackhawk wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:16 am
Seriously, though, Monster Hunter World, who thought it was a good idea to have a game with times missions that you can't save, can't pause, and can't quit - seriously, you have to Ctrl-Alt-Delete to quit the game if you're on a mission, as it doesn't allow you to quit.
I don't have it installed now to check but there should be two different options, Leave Quest and Abandon Quest. One takes you back the the state before you started the quest, getting back anything you used but losing anything you gained, the other does the opposite. It isn't in an obvious place, but I can't pull it up to check.
I had a lot more issues with it than that, from graphics settings (every third setting made things blurry) to the controls (it wouldn't let me bind some of the keyboard keys - ], [ - that I use for my mouse side buttons unless I rebound the mouse buttons, which would break the controls for every other game on my system), to a handful of other things I only barely remember. It was a prime example of developers insisting that you play the game the way they want you to - their timing, their controls, etc - regardless of whether it was practical for you.
Probably shouldn't keep going in this thread, but what the hell... the most amazing thing about it is Monster Hunter world is by far the most accessible Monster Hunter game to date! "Real" fans complain that they made it too cozy.
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Re: Games Finished - 2020 Edition

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It isn't the accessibility that's the issue for me. It's the terrible configuration options combined with the necessity of only being able to play when you'll have big blocks of uninterrupted free time. It's unfriendly before you ever get to the actual gameplay. If they'd let me rebind the controls the way every other game out there does so that I'm not fighting them (I can't put block on my mouse without rebinding my mouse keys themselves), if they had option not to make the game look blurry without turning off many graphical features entirely (so blurry or ugly), and if they gave me an option other than losing 45 minutes of gameplay every time someone knocks on the door or the phone rings, then I'd be able to consider whether it is accessible or not.
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