Total War Warhammer

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Sat May 30, 2020 1:17 pm

With the sale I got both 1 & 2. Which one should I start with?

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat May 30, 2020 1:55 pm

You can play all of the factions from WH1 in WH2's "Mortal Empires" campaign if you own both games, so I would recommend just playing WH2.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat May 30, 2020 2:01 pm

I'd agree unless there is a race from WH1 that really appeals to you, in which case you might want to try their campaign.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Sat May 30, 2020 2:40 pm

It was a little bit of a hassle but I finally got the Mortal Empires installed.
I figure to start off with I'd go with Dwarves.
Anybody disagree?

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Sat May 30, 2020 3:30 pm

Dwarves are good in the longer term as their units are tough, and their cities can produce a lot of money, but their start can be a little harder now than it indicates. They can really get slammed with greenskin invasions if you aren't careful, but it's pretty doable.

I think one of the easiest starts is the Itza lizardman start. They are in a fairly safe part of the world for lizards, have big boosts to their saurus units, and a couple of awesome starting lords. The high elf main faction is also pretty straight forward once you get past some of the initial battles

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Sat May 30, 2020 9:09 pm

I forget, does the Mortal Empires campaign have the chaos invasion when you play as the old world factions?

If not, I might recommend playing one game of Total Warhammer I, just so you can experience the joy of fighting ... uh... I forget the guy's name, anyway, it's a big chaos dude and you have to kill him three times before he actually croaks.

Regardless, Dwarves are a perfectly good race to start with, they're super slow both on the tactical and strategic map, but make up for it by basically never routing and their devastating ranged weaponry. Even their low-level infantry can hold the line long enough for some ranged guys to walk around the flank and open up a can of whoopass. Just be careful of enemy cavalry and bring some crossbow guys if you expect to fight flying units. It also helps to make friends with the humans, so that the vampires aren't coming up into your mountains all the time trying to beef - you need to focus on the Orks to begin with.

Another good thing about Dwarves is that they have plenty of potential buddies to draw into confederations so you can expand your territory without having to conquer it all. The downside is half the time you have to tear all their buildings down and disband their stupidly arranged armies.

T · Post by T » Sun May 31, 2020 9:35 am

I'm playing a Dwarf campaign as Karaz-a-Karak and it's not easy. Playing on hard/normal. You're surrounded by Orcs and VC and under constant attack, especially from underground Orc attacks. Makes it hard to venture out. I took one settlement other than my starting province, but kind of regret it as it's harder to defend.

And I agree, ranged units are you friend as Dwarves. Quarrallers tear things apart.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:58 am

Sepiche wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 3:30 pm Dwarves are good in the longer term as their units are tough, and their cities can produce a lot of money, but their start can be a little harder now than it indicates. They can really get slammed with greenskin invasions if you aren't careful, but it's pretty doable.

I think one of the easiest starts is the Itza lizardman start. They are in a fairly safe part of the world for lizards, have big boosts to their saurus units, and a couple of awesome starting lords. The high elf main faction is also pretty straight forward once you get past some of the initial battles

I'd been looking to do a Total War game forever and OO's rave reviews on on Warhammer got me to drop $35 for the 1&2 campaign combo (no paid for DLC). I set the game to easy and took the dwarf advice and those green skin invasions... How do you play them carefully? I've tried three or four time and then Waargh!!!! invasion always sees about 7 nearly full squads coming after my 2. And while most of their units are weaker, I just can't stop that force.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:22 am

I can say this: The Greenskins used to be weak and useless. They didn't present a threat, and the AI wiped them out early without really trying. Nobody played them. They were just bad. The devs buffed them considerably and gave the faction certain 'benefits' to boost them, and it worked. But they didn't rebalance the Dwarf campaign after they did so, and made the beginning very, very tough.

I can't give any specific advice, as I haven't played the Dwarves since right after the game came out (they were my first campaign.)

What I can suggest is to watch watch this playlist for the game in general. It is excellent.

Then watch this specifically for the Dwarves. He also has a guide for most of the other races:

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:03 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:58 am I'd been looking to do a Total War game forever and OO's rave reviews on on Warhammer got me to drop $35 for the 1&2 campaign combo (no paid for DLC). I set the game to easy and took the dwarf advice and those green skin invasions... How do you play them carefully? I've tried three or four time and then Waargh!!!! invasion always sees about 7 nearly full squads coming after my 2. And while most of their units are weaker, I just can't stop that force.

Dwarves are not a "maneuver warfare" race, that's for sure. Some of the Dwarf campaign starts give you either Thunderers (dwarf rifles) or a flamethrower unit. You want the flamethrower.

Strategically speaking, it's better to have a single army with twenty units than two armies with ten. A twenty-stack will basically crush any but the most determined opposition, while a five or ten stack is just asking to get overrun. With dwarves, I like 10 or so basic melee guys (not the miners, but the ones that are one tier up), three or four crossbow, one or two flamers, then some artillery if I can hook it up. Gyrocopters are also excellent for harassment but they're pretty high up in the tech tree.

Also, focus on retaining control over a whole region, rather than a bunch of separate settlements scattered across separate regions. That way you can specialize your individual towns/cities and make sure that you put your buildings that don't go up past tier III into towns, saving the city slots for bigger, fatter buildings.

A great way of making money is to, when attacking an enemy city, sack it first. That'll get you a bunch of gold. Next turn, you can take it over with minimal penalty.

The general tactic for battle is to keep your guys lined up with maybe one or two melee units in reserve. Anchor your flanks either against the map edge or some kind of terrain feature. If you can't do that, then you'll need a pair of melee units in reserve to deal with flanking cavalry attacks (use your judgement based on how much cavalry got brought in). You're dwarves, so you don't have cavalry of your own. That's just the way it is.

Now, once the orks have engaged your front line and you've got the cavalry locked down, take your flamers and bring them around to the side of the front line for some instant barbecue and routed orks.

The other thing about Orks is that they have a lot of goblins. Goblins rout like nobody's business. Focus on those little twerps first - because when a unit routs, its buddies also lose morale and then it's easier to rout them.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:27 pm

And pay very close attention to the unit cards. Some infantry units will get eaten alive in close combat with enemy troops, but have the 'anti-large' quality. Those you keep back to throw at anything large (including cavalry - but you usually want to wait until the cavalry has charged a heavily armored unit then flank them around.) Likewise, identify your anti-armor troops. Dwarves, as I recall, have a lot of these, but you'll want to make sure you're sending them against the enemy's armored units. And that means that when the enemy appears you'll need to check their unit cards and see what has what capability. If something is anti-armor, don't set your armored units to to hold against them, etc.

One thing I like to do if the enemy doesn't have a lot of cavalry is to wait until they commit their forces to my line, then charge the ranged units around the flanks and set them up in a straight line on either side so that they're firing into the enemy's rear. Dwarves are a lot slower than other races, so it's tougher to flank with them, but their ranged units are usually also very capable in close combat, unlike most other races. That means that if you can pull off the flank, you'll be relatively safe if something attacks them directly.

Keep in mind line of sight as well. Many dwarf units cannot shoot over their comrades. If you can, set your lines up on a hill where your ranged is physically higher than your melee. Another way to deal with this is to keep your front line in narrow, long columns with your ranged in between them at first. L = front line, R = ranged:

LLLRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLL
LLLRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLL
LLLRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLL
LLL.....................LLL....................LLL
LLL.....................LLL....................LLL
LLL.....................LLL....................LLL
LLL.....................LLL....................LLL

Then, when the enemy gets close, you pull your ranged back and reform your front line. It only takes a second. Pause and give orders is your friend. This is where I usually split the ranged into two groups and move them to the side for the flank once they enemy commits.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:33 pm

NickAragua wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:03 pm

Also, focus on retaining control over a whole region, rather than a bunch of separate settlements scattered across separate regions. That way you can specialize your individual towns/cities and make sure that you put your buildings that don't go up past tier III into towns, saving the city slots for bigger, fatter buildings.

This is important. There are big advantages to controlling a whole region, and there are disadvantages to a huge, widespread empire. Don't be afraid to raze and leave towns that are more hassle than they're worth (as in towns in the wrong climate.)

And check if any regions have specialized buildings that can only be built in that one region. Use this to specialize your regions, allowing you to have (for example) a region with lots of military buildings that has the +XP policy in effect and a region with a powerful wealth building set up to generate money with the appropriate policies. In larger games I often have multiple specialized military regions (infantry/cavalry in one, ranged in another, heroes in yet another, navy in another for some races, all depending on the strengths of that region), and a swathe of specialized resource regions (money!), which allows me set my newly captured regions to growth/defense rather than desperately needing them to keep my capitol afloat.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:09 pm

I haven't even played a game yet I just keep watching those zerkovich videos.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:03 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:09 pm I haven't even played a game yet I just keep watching those zerkovich videos.

That level of strategy isn't necessary to play. It's how you win the tough battles without losing most of your army every time. On the easier difficulties and in the early game you can often get by just throwing your masses of troops against their masses of troops.

You can also employ cheesy tactics, but those get boring after a while. I remember in the original Rome: Total War I'd fill my army with 1/2 pikes, 1/2 archers, then run to the nearest corner. I'd line the pikes up at an angle across the corner with the edges of the map at each end, put them on defensive, and crowd the archers in behind them. The edges of the map would protect my flanks, any enemies that got close would be torn up by the vast numbers of archers, any that got into melee would just hit a wall of unmoving spears, then they'd rout and be chewed up by the archers again. It was a no-lose strategy. It was also horribly cheesy and got boring pretty fast.

Now, I'll still sometimes do something similar when entering a castle. I'll breach one spot, move spears (or whatever hard defensive units I have) into the castle to block each avenue of approach, then move my archers in behind them (or place them on the walls with units to cover their flanks), then inch my way forward, chewing up the enemy as I go.

Note: I play with battle time limits disabled.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:13 pm

Time limits suck.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:14 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:03 pm Note: I play with battle time limits disabled.

My main tactical map sin is playing almost all battles at half-speed or less, because I just can't keep up with all the crap going on at full speed.

Edit: sometimes time limits work in your favor when the computer gets stupid and a defensive battle that you should have lost by all rights winds up in your favor due to timeout. Cheesy, but...

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:30 pm

I started a campaign today. After a battle (it was easy enough) and a couple of turns I quit to start another one as somehow I was playing the Empire. I wanted to start as the Dwarves.
I do love Vikings however so I got the Norsca addon.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:05 pm

I enjoyed the Empire quite a bit when I played them. They're a very 'little bit of everything' race.

I've played through the campaigns for:
Dwarves
High Elves
Wood Elves
Dark Elves
Lizardmen
Empire

My to-play list:

Vampire Counts
Tomb Kings
Vampire Coast
Greenskins
Bretonnia

I'm actually not a huge elves fan, lore-wise. The High Elves were because I played them the most in the tabletop version (I also had partial Greenskin, Dwarf, Bretonnian, and Lizardman armies.) The Wood Elves I played because I love ranged. The Dark Elves were because I wanted an 'evil' faction, but didn't feel like messing with a completely new core mechanic (corruption, Waaagh, Skaven weirdness, etc.) The Dwarves were my first, and I really enjoyed their 'tough plus ranged' style. Empire was second for me because I wanted to try the full range to troop types, plus monsters, after finishing with the Dwarves.

I've also played Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying (whichever version was around in the early 90s), at least three or four versions of the wargame, and have read a number of the Warhammer novels, so the setting really appealed to me, despite my ugly breakup with Games Workshop.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:06 pm

And now I'm going to go reinstall. Thanks.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:48 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:06 pm And now I'm going to go reinstall. Thanks.

Must... resist... oo effect...

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:13 pm

I missed the sale.
Guess the decision on which to buy has been made for me for now.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:44 am

Been reading a bunch of the Old World novels since getting addicted to TWW2. I like the mindless high fantasy lore.

For learning purposes, the HE Tyrion start is easiest since money and diplomacy is strongly in your favor. I would also recommend starting with a Vortex game because the world is smaller and you have defined win goals. Mortal Empires can be very overwhelming for new players. Some of the DLC have their own campaigns which is a nice break from the base game. Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast have this.

I have 460 hours into this game and don't think i've even played half the factions yet. It's just so good.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:08 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:58 am I've tried three or four time and then Waargh!!!! invasion ...

And again. I was getting ready to camp out side of a gated castle, and then Waagh happened and I was attached same turn, so the defending lord mustered and castle troops and a Waagh! troops got added out of nowhere and they are now 45 units to my 20 and my main force is crushed. This is on Easy setting. This may be part of ruleset you are all used to but I don't like it.

I think I may try a different faction. Right now my annoyed factor is too high.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:39 pm

The buff to Greenskins really made the Dwarf campaigns a lot harder. There are ways around it, but it takes planning and foreknowledge. Building economy and growth, then a strong full army with a cheap army to back them up (IE - set adjacent to them), and a solid defensible structure nearest the greenskins with a strong garrison. When the Waaagh happens you run back to the garrison, put your army inside, put your backup army adjacent, and let the orcs batter themselves against your walls. When it dies down you head out and raze a few of their towns. Eventually you cripple them enough that they can't recover. But it takes advanced knowledge of what to expect to handle it.

A lot of the races have 'gotcha' elements like that, but they usually don't come so early (see the Chaos invasions.)

Also, Grombrindal is probably the easiest dwarf campaign.

Karl Franz (Empire) isn't too bad if you don't have WH2. If you have WH2 then yeah, Tyrion is a great starting campaign.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:44 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:39 pm If you have WH2 then yeah, Tyrion is a great starting campaign.

Another plus to Tyrion is he starts very sheltered, so you have plenty of time before other races come at you.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:57 pm

Yeah, the high elves are pretty easy mode, I'd say.

I haven't tried a Dwarf start recently, maybe I'll give that a shot again to see what the problem is.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:11 pm

20 turns in an Tyrion "Normal challenge" is much easier than the main dwarf "Easy challenge". Now I have to admit the dwarves don't fall apart until surrounded by Warrgh which seemed to happen around turn 30.

I'm going to restart Tryrion though because I think I took the easy bait and way over expanded. I had 13 settlements and found that trying to protect them ground my ability to grow down to almost nothing.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:52 pm

I'm not enjoying the Greenskins. I'm not an aggressive player, and the orcs are push, push, push.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:07 pm

So I'm watching the first episode of the Witcher and they have this mass melee of a battle.
I keep yelling at the screen "Where's your flanking? You need anti armor units! Where's your archers? Where's you large units and monsters? These clowns obviously have no large units. Bring in some flying units!"
Warhammer has ruined me.
Or maybe I just need to stop watching those Warhammer videos. <sigh>

Zenn7 · Post by **Zenn7** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:42 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:13 pm I missed the sale.
Guess the decision on which to buy has been made for me for now.

Good(?) news for you! Pretty much all Total War (including Warhammer) is on sale at humblebundle.com this week. Decision time again...

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:56 pm

Zenn7 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:42 pm
stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:13 pm I missed the sale.
Guess the decision on which to buy has been made for me for now.
Good(?) news for you! Pretty much all Total War (including Warhammer) is on sale at humblebundle.com this week. Decision time again...

Let me guess, cheaper than the Steam sale?

Also 70 turns in to Tyrion and Elf "normal start" on easy is crazy easy. Dwarf "easy" start on easy was too much for me. Though, I now know a lot more from my Elfish success and might be able to give Dwarf easy a run for its money on turn 32ish. It's hard to say. Waargh! seems to be coded in to happening so I can explicitly prep for it and lay low until it's done and see what happens.

I'm having fun alliance building with Tyrion while beating down one set of drow... drachhii... Dark elves!!! at a time. I can only assume that is what I am supposed to be doing. I might tire before the long game finishes. I'm finicky that way. I like the grand starteginess of games and have a level of desire for them but then I start to feel bogged down when grand strategy starts become spreadsheet managey. 70 turns into Tyrion and I'm feeling a bit spread sheety fatigue, especially when it comes to managing equipment and followers.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:06 pm

Is there war in this game, though?

Zenn7 · Post by **Zenn7** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:21 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:56 pm
Zenn7 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:42 pm
stimpy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:13 pm I missed the sale.
Guess the decision on which to buy has been made for me for now.
Good(?) news for you! Pretty much all Total War (including Warhammer) is on sale at humblebundle.com this week. Decision time again...
Let me guess, cheaper than the Steam sale?

Think most of the DLC is 50%, the base games were 75%? Don't know if you can apply your humble discount on top of that. Don't know what the Steam sales were but I'd guess they're pretty comparable (assuming you can't get a humble discount).

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:06 pm Is there war in this game, though?

Total(ly)!

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:32 pm

I & 2 no paid for DLC was $35 total.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:40 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:56 pm I'm having fun alliance building with Tyrion while beating down one set of drow... drachhii... Dark elves!!! at a time. I can only assume that is what I am supposed to be doing. I might tire before the long game finishes. I'm finicky that way. I like the grand starteginess of games and have a level of desire for them but then I start to feel bogged down when grand strategy starts become spreadsheet managey. 70 turns into Tyrion and I'm feeling a bit spread sheety fatigue, especially when it comes to managing equipment and followers.

Yeah, that's one of the problems with the Total War games - there's a point at which you reach critical mass, and then there's nothing that can challenge your armies. You'll occasionally run into scripted fights where you're forced to bring just one twenty-stack, and those can get pretty tough (e.g. the final elf mission where you have to face three twenty-stacks in a row), but other than that, you're basically just steamrolling weak opposition while clicking "up" arrows. Which, I guess is fair enough since with good enough strategy, you're supposed to be able to do that, but it makes the late game pretty boring for the most part.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:13 pm

Sale prices are the same as Steam was.
Thanks for the heads up, Zenn7.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:25 pm

Just a heads up that the Fanatical store has them just a hair bit cheaper.

I may just pick up 1 for now. If and when I decide to play 2, I'm sure it will have been on sale a number of times.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:30 pm

Track and compare the prices here:
WH1
WH2

Zenn7 · Post by **Zenn7** » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:49 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:25 pm Just a heads up that the Fanatical store has them just a hair bit cheaper.

I may just pick up 1 for now. If and when I decide to play 2, I'm sure it will have been on sale a number of times.

Looked at some of the DLC prices, Fanatical is 5% cheaper (55% discount instead of 50%), but Humble, if you are a monthly subscriber gives you up to 20% off (or for charity) of the sale price. I am getting 10% currently (guessing cause I did not take last month's bundle and I'm classic plan). With 10% back, so long as you plan to spend it, same price. With 20% back, Humble is slightly cheaper.

Wouldn't count on Steam's upcoming summer sale (usually starts the week before the 4th of July doesn't it?) being cheaper, they typically have only been 50% off (Humble price w/o the humble cash back). But if you enjoy it and want to pick up 2 and/or DLC on sale, least you know it'll likely be significantly discounted then.