Video games and dissatisfaction

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Blackhawk
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Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Blackhawk »

This came up as an aside in Video Game Randomness, and by the time I finished replying, I had decided that it warranted its own thread. The discussion:
Paingod wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:15 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:44 pm
Eel Snave wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:22 pm I'm perturbed because there aren't any games interesting me at the moment. I don't feel like playing anything too complicated or anything where I have to learn an interface, so I'm just playing the same old boring games I play all the time. I feel like I need to reignite it somehow, but I can't.

I'm getting close with figuring out some stuff on Retroarch that'll make it more useful, but until then I'm borrrreeeeeed.
This has been spring and summer 2020 for a lot of us. I've actually spent quite a bit of time reexamining what I get out of games, and asking whether I still get that. Or if I still need it.
Man, ditto that. I've been struggling so hard at finding a game to captivate me that I've started learning Unity to try and make my own.

When I started gaming (heavily), it was because I was unhappy, lost, and needed the escape. That was more than 25 years ago. I've gone to college, gotten married, had a kid, gotten divorced, gotten married again, had more kids, gotten divorced, my kids have mostly grown (two adults, one almost there), gotten back together with my ex-wife. I chased religion for years, discarded religion for reason. I've gone from unable to legally buy a drink to never getting carded. I'm not that same unhappy, lost kid anymore. And I don't need the escape anymore. But nearly every element in my life (my hobby, my financial investments, my social connections, my family's routine, activities with the kids...) is built around gaming, so when I remove it from the equation, there's mostly just dead time. Once the family settles in for the night, the only real empty space that's left is my gaming computer.

And so I do what I've done for years: I go looking for a game. But instead of a sense of satisfaction (which I no longer need to get from gaming), I get nothing. So I quit. Dead time. Look for game. Nothing.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"

Another factor, and this is something I've thought a lot about over the past couple of months and have read a lot about: gaming has changed so much in the last 15 years, and a lot of it stems from the MMO revolution of early 2000s. I'm not talking about some subjective "In my day..." rant here, I'm talking about a fundamental change from a design perspective. More specifically, the gameplay reward loop has completely changed. Instead of slowly working toward a big reward, games are designed to give constant small rewards. Instead of resolving a long story beat or finally making your way to a destination, you're constantly leveling up, unlocking something, collecting some hidden thing, or finding new loot. It's like an endless stream of little doses of dopamine spread out across the entirety of the game. Gamers are so used to it that if they go more than five or ten minutes without some sort of reward, they get bored and wander off, so developers are almost forced to design around it, usually at the expense of narrative flow, engagement, and building a sense of curiosity and wonder. We continue to game out of inertia.

It creates this mental state where your mind is trying to find that same constant reward loop in anything else you try to do. Read a book, build something, work on a craft, be artistic, study. Your brain keeps looking for the reward that it has been trained to expect every five minutes, and it's no longer there. Your brain responds by looking elsewhere. That either comes through craving 'gaming' without enjoying the games themselves, or through constant distraction. We have literally forgotten how not to game.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by coopasonic »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:12 pm We have literally forgotten how not to game.
In my house, in reaction to my wife's frustration with everyone else in the house's "addiction" to video games, every Tuesday evening (5p to bedtime) is "No Tech Tuesday" and the first Saturday of every month is "Stone Age Saturday". In both of these events, no video game playing or video game watching is allowed. We've played a lot more board games, ping pong, darts and pool as a result, so we basically just change our kind of game, but they tend to be more interactive and physical.

I still find myself wishing I could be gaming in those times, so apparently I have fallen victim to those damn dopamine surges. Luckily the few times I have found myself not being engaged with whatever game I am trying, I have close to a thousand other options and generally something speaks to me... or I go watch some netflix if it's just not happening. (I will finish season 3 of Jessica Jones one day!)

I think I started typing with a point in mind. It has escaped me so I guess I'll go back to finally playing Shadow Tactics! :ninja:
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by YellowKing »

Historically my problem has been a desire to consume more content than I have time to consume. We all have our game backlog, our TV show backlog, our movie backlog, our podcast backlog, our book backlog, etc. At one point I was getting stressed over stuff that should be entertainment and leisure. Reading or playing games became more like a job than a hobby.

I wound up really having to change my mindset, and not look at the stuff I owned as a backlog. But more as a library. When I walk into a library, I don't have to read every book. I just find something that interests me and I read that. I've tried to apply that to not only books, but games, podcasts, television shows, etc. I play what I feel like playing, I read what I feel like reading, I watch what I feel like watching at any given moment.

It has really helped me actually enjoy stuff again, because I don't feel the pressure of obligation. And I've actually found that it has expanded my experiences because in the past I'd be hesitant to start a new show or try a new game because I had so many others in that infernal "backlog." Now if I want to try out something new I try it. If I want to quit it and never play it again after 30 minutes, then so be it. If I want to watch half a TV season and never complete it, who cares.

I'm not saying that mindset shift was easy. I still struggle to maintain it to some degree. I have come to recognize when I'm falling back into old habits again though, and that's usually my sign to walk away and focus on something else for awhile.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by JCC »

I can relate to this apathy. I still follow games and am interested in them, but I find when I actually play them I don't get the same enjoyment out of them. Part of it, is I seem to be getting worse at them. Jedi Fallen Order has all the Metroidvania elements I love - but the Souls like combat even on Easy was frustrating for me. And then I got to the swampy level and just ran out of interest.

Moved onto replaying some class stories in SWTOR, which I enjoy, but it's just a grind if you don't subscribe and once my 2 months ran out I had had my fill.

Picked up AC: Origins in the Steam sale. Played it a couple times, liked it, liked the controls changes (altuough still learning them), but... it's still just more AC. I would rather replay AC 2 and Brotherhood. I haven't given up on it, but already find my mind wandering...

I keep trying with Prey. I *love* Dishonred, love immersive sims, and loved System Shock 2. On paper this should be in my wheelhouse. But I always start and just stall out on it... Not sure why it doesn't grab me.

Anyway, I am off for a week at the beach this weekend, so it's a dilemma for another time....
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Isgrimnur »

YellowKing wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:00 pm Historically my problem has been a desire to consume more content than I have time to consume. We all have our game backlog, our TV show backlog, our movie backlog, our podcast backlog, our book backlog, etc. At one point I was getting stressed over stuff that should be entertainment and leisure. Reading or playing games became more like a job than a hobby.
Giving up the DVR really turned a corner for me.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by hitbyambulance »

i feel this is where i was about... ehhhh a decade to five years ago. i went through maaaany gaming dry spells in that time.

right now, i'm playing again because i _want_ to. a real change i've noticed - if a game isn't grabbing me, i drop it after giving it a fair chance. i know what makes a game 'good' to me, and i can tell pretty fast if that game isn't going to deliver on it. i'm also not concerned about 'finishing' games. it's just not a motivating factor for me (and i don't play many narrative-based titles, so that's fine). as mentioned above, if i just want to play 30 minutes and then never have anything to do with it again after that, who cares. there were times where i feel like i *should* be gaming more, but that's silly. it's indicative of a lack of other hobbies/self-enrichment pursuits.

since then, after coming to terms with this and making some corrective changes in my life. my concentration has made a few strides back to sanity. reading is something i can fully engage with - back 15 years ago, i was abandoning books all the time. i've gone back to most of those abandoned books and finished them, and i'm able to see any book through to its end now (if i can finish Joyce's _Ulysses_ in six months, i think anyone can, if they want to.) i'm doing my own self-study and working on my own projects. it's faaaaaar more rewarding and fulfilling to create than consume, and i'm ashamed of how far i slipped into the consumer mindset. (but i'm not into TV or movies or most video-things in general, so that helps.) i'm actually starting to think i should read less so i have more time to work on my own stuff.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Lordnine »

I guess I fit in the jaded gamer category too! I remember in high school being excited about all the games I could afford once I got a real job. Now I have all the games (857 according to Steam!) and little desire to play them.

It’s not that I don’t like the games I have, to the contrary, I actually have quite a few I know I enjoy installed and ready to go, but it almost feels like work to boot them up. Instead I tend to play an hour or so of Heroes of the Storm with a friend every night, then I end up reading about games I might never play but still follow intently.

For me at least, the exception seems to be short games. If I can complete the full game in only a few hours I tend to enjoy the experience a lot more. For that reason, I have migrated almost entirely to indie games at this point. Give me a 4-6-hour game with a unique gimmick or a well told complete story and I am happy. Show me a 30+ hour campaign and my eyes glaze over and I will run in the other direction.

I wonder what I am going to do once Wasteland 3 comes out. It is still one of my most anticipated games but I don’t know if I have the patience anymore.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Alefroth »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:12 pm More specifically, the gameplay reward loop has completely changed. Instead of slowly working toward a big reward, games are designed to give constant small rewards. Instead of resolving a long story beat or finally making your way to a destination, you're constantly leveling up, unlocking something, collecting some hidden thing, or finding new loot. It's like an endless stream of little doses of dopamine spread out across the entirety of the game.
This applies to more than gaming anymore. So much of our life is gamified. I don't know if it started with MMOs, or MMOs were just one of the results, but those that want us to consume and behave in a certain way have found that is a very effective approach. I mean, they didn't just stumble upon this approach, they created it knowing about human nature.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by dbt1949 »

I'm over 70 and I still play my PC games. Every once in a while I get tired of it and instead of playing one of the 300 games I have just a few minutes in I watch Amazon Prime or Netflix or just YouTube videos, usually about games. Sometimes I read.
After watching enough game videos I recover my need to play my games and I get to it.
Of course I'm one of those olde people who loves not working or inter reacting with people.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Blackhawk »

For some perspective, I loaded System Shock 2 up a couple of weeks ago and really paid attention to the reward loop. There were huge stretches of walking down empty corridors, searching rooms that were empty, searching crates that had one item that wasn't at all useful. The rewards, usually level-ups, came after climactic moments rather than substituting for those moments. Basic improvements didn't have big flashes of light that were thrown at you every few minutes. Instead, they required backtracking and an investment of time and thought. There were no levels, just costs for skill increases, which means that improving wasn't built around big, pre-planned reward moments with fanfare, but as a slow accumulation. There were no collectibles or achievements to add 'extra' rewards to the game. The only non-essential collectibles were logs that were usually placed in plain sight to ensure you got to hear the story rather than just spending time searching. There was downtime where nothing happened, which made things like combat, a story moment, or a discover really stand out - you know, pacing. Where is the pacing in so many modern games? That reward loop seems to have replaced it. There's no buildup, no release, just bam, bam, bam.

The game drew me in with interesting environments that made me genuinely wonder what was next (even though I'd played it multiple times in the past), a narrative that I cared about, and tidbits that were planned for how engaging they were rather than for how they could manipulate my psychology. It didn't need to trick my brain into drugging itself every few minutes to keep me playing.

I didn't reach a point halfway through where I checked to see how much more I had to get done before I finished, and each time I played I walked away thinking about the game rather than just feeling exhausted. It was kind of nice.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Madmarcus »

hitbyambulance wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:11 pm it's faaaaaar more rewarding and fulfilling to create than consume, and i'm ashamed of how far i slipped into the consumer mindset. (but i'm not into TV or movies or most video-things in general, so that helps.) i'm actually starting to think i should read less so i have more time to work on my own stuff.
I was a prodigious reader up until I had kids. I played video games before then it was really after my second kid that I switched my consumption hobby from reading to playing games. For years that consumption was balanced against the fact that I was running a high school robotics team. The work with the students and the access to the school's workshop for some small projects of mine scratched the creator itch.

With the new job and move (2 years ago by now so not really new) I really struggled with the loss of the creating outlet. Last summer I even broke down and spent more money than I should have to get a mini toy CNC here to do some fiddling. Yet I've barely done any and I've swung farther towards the consumer side. Some of it is due to the Covid Spring and finding strategy games and RPGs a good mental refresher when the world is crazy. And some of it is that I have renewed my interest in an old TTRPG project I've been working on. Yet I don't feel bad for having gone through a stage of consuming. I'm not sure that creation for the sake of creation is significantly better then consumption.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Pyperkub »

I've become more of a console gamer lately - especially during the Pandemic shelter-in-place. I find that I have to motivate myself to sit down at the computer for computer gaming after a day of working from home. Couch gaming is a change and a move, and a lot of times it helps wake me up when I'm drained. I also have found that I'm more able to just play one game through, though that could be the games I've been playing - Spider-Man and Horizon Zero Dawn. HZD did have a bit of the doldrums as I was doing more side-quests than the main quest, but as I've jumped more into the main quest, it has dragged me back in.

As to other media - Mrs Kub and I have our family time where we binge shows, or just watch something with dinner, and I'm reading a lot - mostly in bed before sleep, to take my mind off of work, pandemic, etc. I've found that it's helpful to stick to F/SF for that reading, as Mystery/Thrillers seem just a bit too close to real life. Even some of the SF I've read seems to bounce too close to real life, if the book revolves too much around politics parallel to today.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Eel Snave »

Glad I started something! :P

I used to play Civ religiously. Now, I start a game of Civ, get about ten turns in and then I'm like, "Eh." I play games where I can have music playing and it doesn't distract me, like Out of the Park or Slay the Spire, but I'm not ENJOYING myself.

Like, is it just because there's too much going on to really focus on anything? Or does it have to do with the reward loop being disrupted because we're all in hell? I dunno.

Maybe I'll do what I used to do: Play Lords of the Realm 2 until I FEEL something again.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

I would echo Paradroid's sentiments here:
Paradroid wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:08 pm To those in a gaming funk: Try genres you wouldn't normally be very interested in. It's simple advice but here's my personal experience and why I recommend it:

Firstly I recently acquired the first gamepad I've had in about 20 years. I only bought it to play Monster Hunter: World but, since I had it, I thought I may as well install some racing games and platform games I've had in my library for a while - two genres I didn't give a toss about before. To my delight, I found myself enjoying them a lot. I now have lots of games in my library that are effectively new games for me, and since they're genres I don't usually play they feel particularly fresh.

Secondly, I always used to like RPGs and preferred turn based strategy to real time strategy. These days however I can't bear the thought of micromanaging a single character in minute detail and min-maxing him, and with strategy I now much prefer the immediacy of real time to the plod of turn based (and endlessly clicking "end turn" to see something happen).

Anyway those are only my experiences, but the first was almost luck and the second came only after a lot of soul searching. I feel like my library has come alive again.
As a case in point, I recently began playing Streets of Rage 4 even though I probably haven't played a beat'em up brawler since the bygone era of coin-operated arcade machines. And much like Paradroid, I've found it to be a refreshingly satisfying and enjoyable experience. YMMV, but figuring out how to string together useful combos for the various characters, acquiring the learned knowledge of enemy attacks and weaknesses, and utilizing that to counter with your own arsenal of attacks makes for a surprisingly compelling core gameplay loop.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Skinypupy »

I’ve given up trying to figure out what’s going to click and what won’t. It’s completely random anymore, and usually far more misses than hits.

About the only constant is that the more complex or difficult a game is, the less likely I’ll be to enjoy it. I simply don’t have the time or patience to bash my head up against something over and over again.

I am a little sad that many of the games and genres I used to enjoy fall flat these days. I used to adore CRPGs, but most of them end up getting me lost in side quest hell and I lose interest. I’ve tried going back to the MMOs I’ve spent hundreds (or thousands) of hours with, and burn out within a week. I find most JRPGs to be overly childish and silly.

I must just be getting old.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Paradroid »

Skinypupy, for what it's worth I felt precisely what you described, literally word for word, until my experiences that Anonymous Bosch kindly linked earlier. You must have games in your library you assume to have zero interest in; why not give them a try? What's the worst that could happen? :)
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Skinypupy »

Paradroid wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:54 pm Skinypupy, for what it's worth I felt precisely what you described, literally word for word, until my experiences that Anonymous Bosch kindly linked earlier. You must have games in your library you assume to have zero interest in; why not give them a try? What's the worst that could happen? :)
Oh trust me, I’ve tried a ton of games outside my typical wheelhouse. There’s just very few games anymore that really make me sit up and take notice in any way. The fact that I have the attention span of a goldfish these days doesn’t help the situation any.

I am, however, trying to play some games in ways that I typically wouldn’t. For example, I fired up Dragon Age Inquisition this week and have been playing as an elven Mage, which is a race/class combo that I typically never even consider (I almost always play a melee fighter. It’s made the game a much different and fun experience.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Madmarcus »

Skinypupy wrote: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:03 pm About the only constant is that the more complex or difficult a game is, the less likely I’ll be to enjoy it. I simply don’t have the time or patience to bash my head up against something over and over again.
Oddly I've found almost the opposite. I'm finding that the only games I can get into are ones with lots of crunch. I feel much more adrift right now and solid mechanics that I have to think about helps to counteract that.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by raydude »

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:14 pm I would echo Paradroid's sentiments here:
Paradroid wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:08 pm To those in a gaming funk: Try genres you wouldn't normally be very interested in. It's simple advice but here's my personal experience and why I recommend it:

Firstly I recently acquired the first gamepad I've had in about 20 years. I only bought it to play Monster Hunter: World but, since I had it, I thought I may as well install some racing games and platform games I've had in my library for a while - two genres I didn't give a toss about before. To my delight, I found myself enjoying them a lot. I now have lots of games in my library that are effectively new games for me, and since they're genres I don't usually play they feel particularly fresh.

Secondly, I always used to like RPGs and preferred turn based strategy to real time strategy. These days however I can't bear the thought of micromanaging a single character in minute detail and min-maxing him, and with strategy I now much prefer the immediacy of real time to the plod of turn based (and endlessly clicking "end turn" to see something happen).

Anyway those are only my experiences, but the first was almost luck and the second came only after a lot of soul searching. I feel like my library has come alive again.
As a case in point, I recently began playing Streets of Rage 4 even though I probably haven't played a beat'em up brawler since the bygone era of coin-operated arcade machines. And much like Paradroid, I've found it to be a refreshingly satisfying and enjoyable experience. YMMV, but figuring out how to string together useful combos for the various characters, acquiring the learned knowledge of enemy attacks and weaknesses, and utilizing that to counter with your own arsenal of attacks makes for a surprisingly compelling core gameplay loop.
Thirded. My current game outside my normal wheelhouse is Murder by Numbers. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be caught dead playing puzzle games. Something about them makes my brain hurt but for some reason this game clicked with me. I think it's because it's not just a puzzle game. There are segments where you question suspects that play out like Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney; and the art style is similar so that was a plus.

I also like it because I can play the game in short bursts or over long periods of time as I feel like it.

I'm also rotating through various games. I play Minecraft with my kids sometimes, then switch to Murder by Numbers when I'm by myself; Streets of Rage4 when I want mindless beat-em ups or Shipbreaker when I'm in the mood for something more zen-like.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Kasey Chang »

With almost 1500 games in my library, I play a lot of games, but there are a couple "pet peeves" that makes me quit a game.

I don't like super-difficult games

I don't like games that require exquisite timing for optimum effect, as I'm not very good at timing (bad reflexes). One reason I don't play fighting games, or bullet hell games.

I also don't like games that have infinite respawn as I tend to sit back and kill enemies one at a time (so sniper games are right up my alley, until they force me to go up close). I do play quite a few action games, but often I end up engaging a cheat or trainer to play through the plot.

I get bored if the game just makes me repeat certain sections with minor variations. I can make it through rally games as the cars handle different enough, but it can get boring too.

I also get discouraged at games with a VERY steep learning curve right at the beginning. I tend to play games at easiest level, unless it's a genre I'm okay in, like driving/racing games.

With a lot of the shooters, I just go God mode and play through the plot. In fact, I'm pretty much NOT going to buy Halo... I just want to watch the cinematics. ;)
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Paradroid »

raydude wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:57 am I also like it because I can play the game in short bursts or over long periods of time as I feel like it.
This is pretty key for me too. I live in a busy house so if I want to get really stuck into something I have to wait until late at night, and the chances are I'll be too tired by that point. Consequently I really value some of the more casual games like Crash Dive and Carrier Deck that I would have sneered at when I was younger.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by hitbyambulance »

Kasey Chang wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:16 am

With a lot of the shooters, I just go God mode and play through the plot. In fact, I'm pretty much NOT going to buy Halo... I just want to watch the cinematics. ;)

i don't understand this at all. your game playing philosophy couldn't be any more opposite from mine.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Blackhawk »

I wouldn't want it (I want some challenge), but I can understand it. Some people game for the experience of 'being there' and being a part of the story.

Others are all about the challenge of difficult gameplay and/or strategy, or about understanding complex mechanics, or about competitiveness.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Kasey Chang »

hitbyambulance wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Kasey Chang wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:16 am

With a lot of the shooters, I just go God mode and play through the plot. In fact, I'm pretty much NOT going to buy Halo... I just want to watch the cinematics. ;)

i don't understand this at all. your game playing philosophy couldn't be any more opposite from mine.
Well, I've played my way through plenty of shooters, and they *are* fun, in certain doses, but there is only so much of "guy around the corner", "guy hiding in the bushes", "guy spawning behind you" that you can take. :)
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Jiffy »

I've found that my gaming style and approach has shifted quite a bit in the past 5 years (now being mid 30s and married). To that effect I actually limit myself to only buying, and playing, one game at a time. I play the game until I tire of it, then move on to the next, which I usually then buy on sale. I don't know the last time I've bought a 'new' game, though having a switch, I've definitely paid full price for the Nintendo titles.

Much like YK though, I don't feel the need at all to complete something if it doesn't grab me, even if I think it should. Dragon Age inquisition is a good example - I got probably about 5 hrs in....and just went 'meh', and found a new game. There are *so* many games out there to choose from, that I don't find any lacking for choice, more the difficulty being making that choice. But I usually will decide by what is on sale at the time of choosing the next game.

I find it helps that I now enjoy narrative driven games a lot more than I used to (i.e. when younger, loving TF2, Civ2, etc). The narrative in the game helps drive me, but also ensures I know there is an end goal.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by hitbyambulance »

Kasey Chang wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:36 pm
hitbyambulance wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Kasey Chang wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:16 am

With a lot of the shooters, I just go God mode and play through the plot. In fact, I'm pretty much NOT going to buy Halo... I just want to watch the cinematics. ;)

i don't understand this at all. your game playing philosophy couldn't be any more opposite from mine.
Well, I've played my way through plenty of shooters, and they *are* fun, in certain doses, but there is only so much of "guy around the corner", "guy hiding in the bushes", "guy spawning behind you" that you can take. :)
to my point - instead of zombie-ing one's way through a title on invincible mode with every slightest hint of 'challenge' removed in a genre one isn't even really in to, why not... go do something interesting or productive instead? for me, that would be removing the entire impetus for playing in the first place. if games have little or zero challenge, i don't bother.

(i also find 'cinematics' the absolutely least interesting part of gaming. they tend to be like a C-grade-made-for-TV episode at best. i would be good with removing all poorly-made 'story' from any game i play.)
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Skinypupy »

hitbyambulance wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:23 pm
Kasey Chang wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:36 pm
hitbyambulance wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Kasey Chang wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:16 am

With a lot of the shooters, I just go God mode and play through the plot. In fact, I'm pretty much NOT going to buy Halo... I just want to watch the cinematics. ;)

i don't understand this at all. your game playing philosophy couldn't be any more opposite from mine.
Well, I've played my way through plenty of shooters, and they *are* fun, in certain doses, but there is only so much of "guy around the corner", "guy hiding in the bushes", "guy spawning behind you" that you can take. :)
to my point - instead of zombie-ing one's way through a title on invincible mode with every slightest hint of 'challenge' removed in a genre one isn't even really in to, why not... go do something interesting or productive instead? for me, that would be removing the entire impetus for playing in the first place. if games have little or zero challenge, i don't bother.

(i also find 'cinematics' the absolutely least interesting part of gaming. they tend to be like a C-grade-made-for-TV episode at best. i would be good with removing all poorly-made 'story' from any game i play.)
I don’t care one whit whether a game is challenging or not. In fact, I’d much prefer that it’s not. I care about whether the world, the story, and the characters are interesting. That’s what gets me to buy it and what keeps my interest.

The Bioshock series is a great example. I very seldom felt challenged (and generally just got annoyed on the rare occasion it did happen), but played through all three games because I found everything about the world and characters absolutely fascinating.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by hitbyambulance »

there's a spectrum of interactivity in gaming, and it goes from 'movie with occasional user input' to '100% unthemed game mechanics' - personally, i'll take the latter every time. if i want stories, i'll go to books. (imo, game stories tend to be not good and certainly seem to be filler or afterthoughts.)

games i'm interested in will fulfill their function first and foremost as dictionary definition #3 states:

game (n): a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance according to a set of rules

but i think i'd take that further with a primarily reliance on the 'skill' component.

i enjoy sandbox titles, but those are another thing entirely
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Blackhawk »

The biggest change I've seen is that I get far less satisfaction out of open world stories than I used to, and this from the official forum 'Elder Scrolls Guy.' Too many sidequests, too many collectibles. I lose the narrative for any particular activity by the time I get to it, and the urgency of the story disappears when it is broken up by collecting/clearing/searching six different areas on the way.

The last game I played that was open world (Assassin's Creed 4: Black Flag) I very much 'fixed' for myself by actively ignoring any collectible that wasn't directly in my path or any side activity that I wasn't excited about. Save for some fort conquering and a little bit of ship upgrading, I just followed the story and ignored the rest.

None of this seems to apply to sandbox games (Minecraft, Subnautica), or games that you can play as sandboxes (Fallout 4.) Games without a driving narrative don't suffer from having that non-existent narrative diverged from.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Skinypupy »

hitbyambulance wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:10 am there's a spectrum of interactivity in gaming, and it goes from 'movie with occasional user input' to '100% unthemed game mechanics' - personally, i'll take the latter every time. if i want stories, i'll go to books. (imo, game stories tend to be not good and certainly seem to be filler or afterthoughts.)

games i'm interested in will fulfill their function first and foremost as dictionary definition #3 states:

game (n): a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance according to a set of rules

but i think i'd take that further with a primarily reliance on the 'skill' component.
It’s always fascinating to have the same core hobby as someone, yet be on such complete polar opposites when it comes to why we do it and what we get out of it.

Fully agree with BH on side quest hell. The further a game strays from the main story, the more likely I am to wander off.

I always enjoy the early game in sandbox titles. Exploring, getting a sense of how progression works, creating new things, etc. Once the inevitable grind sets in though, my interest disappears very quickly.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Blackhawk »

For me I usually crash on open world games when:

A) I've got so many tasks that I don't remember what any of them are about, or end up completing them in a non-linear manner: I go out to do Quest A, which starts off really cool, finish steps A1 and A2, then stumble across B1 (from Quest B), hit A3, but then I'm right in front of B2 and B3, which takes me in the opposite direction where I finish C1 and C2, plus all of D. And what was quest A about again? Who was I supposed to turn D in to? It's like reading four books simultaneously, changing after one or two chapters each time, and ending up not following any of them. I had this problem with The Witcher and Elder Scrolls games in particular (and of course MMOs.)

or

B) The quest is something vital - I'm going to pick on Fallout 4 here - "Save the kidnapped baby!", but there are dozens of minor side tasks along the way, collectibles, projects, and so forth that "Save the kidnapped baby" becomes utterly unimportant. Elder Scrolls/Fallout are the obvious offenders.

or

C) I start off on the story, but get busy chasing down collectibles, climbing towers to 'synchronize', upgrading my stuff, etc that I eventually stop having fun. Yet the completionist in me just keeps collecting, and I end up badly burned out on the game before I even know what it's about. Assassin's Creed and Rockstar stuff can be like this, as can Far Cry.

or

D) On games that involve leveling up or upgrading things, I'll do side content and end up so powerful that the core gameplay isn't fun anymore. Far Cry and The Witcher 3 were games I've lost track of for this.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Kasey Chang »

With what I said before, I have to add that I played Far Cry 3 and Far Cry 4 to the end. So I like the story, but I'm probably a bit overpowered by the end as I did all the sidequests and whatnot.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Eel Snave »

So I think I may have found something to get me out of my doldrums. I've been using RetroAchievements for a while, and I stopped a while back when I lost all my saves. I picked it up again, and the bug has hit me again to play NES games until my eyes bleed, so that's something, right?
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by hitbyambulance »

Eel Snave wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:49 pm and the bug has hit me again to play NES games until my eyes bleed, so that's something, right?
i purchased a few dozen second-hand Famicom cartridges from a seller in Japan over the past years. have found some good titles that never got a US release. the ones that did were all waaaay cheaper than their US NES used versions (sometimes significantly so - US version of Clu Clu Land: about $28. JP version: $2).
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Kasey Chang »

In the interest of fairness and to see if I still like the sniper games, I decided to replay Sniper Elite V2 (Remastered)... AND chase down all the gold bars and wine bottles... And those are hidden in some of the weirdest places... You'd NEVER think to look unless you are actually out looking for them. Keep in mind that SEV2 is NOT an open world game... The ruins of Berlin is organized in a way you can only move through one way (different zones blocked by buildings) though you *can* go backwards. But how you approach each segment of enemies is up to you. It only has the illusion of open world. The "world" is much smaller than you think. SE3 is the same. Can't tell about SE4 as I haven't played it yet (despite owning it for years).
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Paradroid »

What do you think of Sniper Ghost Warrior Contracts? I have it but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by coopasonic »

Paradroid wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:03 pm What do you think of Sniper Ghost Warrior Contracts? I have it but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.
SHORT

There is way too little content. I think they want you to play it like Hitman repeating some areas to get all the goals. It was solid, but needs to be more. Steam says it took me 14 hours to complete.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

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Heh, that's plenty for me. I guess I'll try it out soon!
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Jeff V »

Working in the gaming media for a bunch of years kind of killed it as a hobby for me. Used to like wargames, can't remember the last time I played one. Anything with a learning curve isn't going to get played, as well as anything I can't walk away from at any time or something that requires manual dexterity (arthritis is a bitch). Games library is still mostly CD/DVD although the computer no longer has a player -- my Steam library has fewer than 20 titles I think (it became a thing at the tail end of my media involvement). When I do give it some time, it's Civ 6 or Gal Civ 3. It's not gaming season now anyway so it's rare I'll venture into the basement to play when I have opportunity, but a stormy forecast for tomorrow means a greater than zero chance I'll get some time in.
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Re: Video games and dissatisfaction

Post by Kasey Chang »

Paradroid wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:03 pm What do you think of Sniper Ghost Warrior Contracts? I have it but haven't gotten around to trying it yet.
I've been told, and from videos I've watched, it's not that long, and a sequel is due later this year. But you can, again, do it any way you like: sniping, knifing, or just plain shooting. Mechanics is quite solid, and paths plenty. Price is low enough that you can enjoy it without hurting like a AAA title. Should be pretty good game for the price, and has stuff for achievement hunters who want to chase down every last sub-goals.
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