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Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

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El Guapo
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by El Guapo »

The Papacy controls Normandy?

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

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I'm trying another tribal society, this time in the far north-east of the map. We are now the mighty Kirghiz Khanate, but I expect it to all come tumbling down every time the crown passes to the next generation. Tribal societies are stuck with confederate partition, which means that in every succession, the realm is splintered among the male children, leaving the primary heir with a much-diminished power base that inevitably leads to civil wars for power and independence.

In my current game, the latest Khan came to power in his mid-thirties, spend a decade at war with a large independence faction, and now has maybe 10-15 years to do productive things before he dies, his heir takes over, and it starts all over again.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by coopasonic »

AWS260 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:15 am
Tribal societies are stuck with confederate partition, which means that in every succession, the realm is splintered among the male children, leaving the primary heir with a much-diminished power base that inevitably leads to civil wars for power and independence.
Infant mortality was terrible in those times... if you get my meaning.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by AWS260 »

coopasonic wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:11 am
Infant mortality was terrible in those times... if you get my meaning.
Why, I have no idea what you could be referring to!

:ninja:

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by El Guapo »

I picked this up, but I'm still rocking an aging Surface Pro 3, and the performance of this on that is not exactly *amazing*. I'll see if I can jigger the settings enough, but guessing I may just need to request a refund and hold off on this until my next computer.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:51 am
The Papacy controls Normandy?
Yup! We tend to think of the pope as a nice old man who lives in the smallest country on Earth, but up until 1870 (IIRC) the Papacy was a player on the world stage. It vied with other European powers to control lands and peoples. As you can see in the screenshot below the Pope in my current game commands over twelve thousand troops and has six holdings, plus a kingdom and several duchy-equivalence titles. It might be fun to play as the pope sometime, although the heir situation might be interesting!

Enlarge Image click to enlarge
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by El Guapo »

jztemple2 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:24 pm
El Guapo wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:51 am
The Papacy controls Normandy?
Yup! We tend to think of the pope as a nice old man who lives in the smallest country on Earth, but up until 1870 (IIRC) the Papacy was a player on the world stage. It vied with other European powers to control lands and peoples. As you can see in the screenshot below the Pope in my current game commands over twelve thousand troops and has six holdings, plus a kingdom and several duchy-equivalence titles. It might be fun to play as the pope sometime, although the heir situation might be interesting!

Enlarge Image click to enlarge
I know what the Papal States were, I was just confused about how the Papal States wound up with holdings in northern France.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

From Rock, Paper, Shotgun, The official Crusader Kings 3 house motto awards
One of the strange things about Crusader Kings 3 is that the sheer size of the world means that even the mightiest empire will still operate in perhaps a quarter of the map at most. When you’re a small realm, or one squished into a corner like Ireland or Kham, you can spend the entire game without proof that most of the world even exists.

It’s a good thing. I like it. Sometimes I like to pause and scroll around the world to see how it’s doing while I was busy taking Yorubaland to the regionals. And that’s when I noticed something about all the AI dynasties.

They have mottos. They have randomly generated mottos. And yet, they have no independent body to evaluate the best ones and give them appropriate awards. Well, we’ll just have to fix that.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

El Guapo wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:29 pm
I know what the Papal States were, I was just confused about how the Papal States wound up with holdings in northern France.
Ah, sorry, I didn't understand your meaning. I'm not sure how the Pope ended up with so much of northern France, but I suspect a Holy War was involved, since the Adamite faith is strong in that area. We've had Holy Wars rolling all over northern Europe lately.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

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All sorts of random folks have random holdings everywhere!

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

It gets harder and harder to show all Ireland on one map!
Image

Sadly, High King Otto mac Mael-Coluim, now known as High King Otto 'the Historian' :D is not long for this world, having the somewhat dubious perk of knowing that death is coming in one year. Thankfully he (me?) was able to win a holy war, probably his last war, against the Adamites and seize the Duchy of Poitiers. He now has eight holdings, a Petty Kingdom (dukedom) and eight counties. Not bad for a 79 year old! He has ruled for almost 45 years. Happily his son is his elected heir, although I know a lot of the holdings will go away.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

I like this new CKIII old timey map view, showing off the green of Ireland.
Image

My army is just over ten thousand strong, making it stronger than all my neighbors. Only the Holy Roman Empire is stronger with over twenty-seven thousand. I now have two duchy titles, having usurped the Duchy of Poitiers title, plus eight counties. And the awesome advice and suggestion box is telling me that there are two counties in Spain upon which I could wage holy war if I wanted to.

All this will change however with my upcoming death :cry:. My heir will probably end up with one holding and lots of cranky vassals :doh:
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by AWS260 »

That screenshot is full of delights. The Holy Roman Empire of the Scottish Highlands. The Papacy of northern France. That chunk of Hungary hanging out on the Iberian Peninsula.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by LordMortis »

Urge to drop $50 and play rising...

Wonders how my rig will handle the game. It's getting long in the tooth and even TBS that are being released have been stressing it, though I'm still within the recommended specs.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by Octavious »

I think you would have to have a really crappy computer to not be able to handle this game. I'd also highly recommend just getting the xbox pass if you aren't sure you are going to play it for long. I'm pretty sure they still have the 1st month for a dollar promotion... :shock:
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Another king passes away, a new one is crowned:
Enlarge Image

Otto ruled for 44 years and made Ireland quite a world player, as I've mentioned in my previous posts. Now with High King Mael-Coluim II on the throne, I'm back a bit with only three holdings instead of eight. Something unexpected happened however, the Queen of the Danelaw proposed that she would give me Dublin if I would give her Devon! A nice way to tidy up borders. Interesting that CKIII has that coded into the game. So now I have a united island and I got to create a new Duchy for myself:
Enlarge Image

One sore spot is the Duchy of Poitiers, on what will eventually be the west coast of France in modern times. It is that section of Irish green south-west of Flanders. It is held by my six year old half-brother Prince John, who is yup 54 years younger than me :roll:. According to the right-click menu, I can grant him independence, because he is not my De Jure vassal, Poitiers not being a duchy that is "drifting" toward Irish control. I can't see where this would be any advantage to me, giving away such a large part of my realm. So I do the responsible thing, I start a Scheme to murder Prince John :twisted:. Sadly for me, the scheme is uncovered and I'm back to where I started and will have to wait ten years to try again. Since I'm already sixty, ten years may not be possible. So I'll think of something else.

Otherwise it has been a quiet transition for the new King, no one is declaring war on me yet. However, the peasants of the four counties that comprise the Duchy of Poitiers have started a faction called the French Adamite Populists. They aren't at the revolting stage yet, but maybe if things get serious, this would be a good reason to grant Poitiers independence. Let little Prince John deal with the insurrection himself!
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

From PC Gamer, Even for a Crusader Kings game, there are a heck of a lot of bastards in CK3
Affairs, lovers, and illegitimate children are nothing new in the Crusader Kings series. In one game of Crusader Kings 2, my pudgy, brown-haired character and his pudgy, brown-haired wife had five children. Four were pudgy and brown-haired, but one was very thin and extremely blonde. Hey, it happens.

But in Crusader Kings 3 there sure seem to be a whole heck of a lot of bastards, even for a Crusader Kings game. Take this one player who was inhabiting a ruler named King Nuno until he died, at which point he took over as his heir, Pedro. Pedro had a low fertility score, yet Pedro's wife Isabel kept getting pregnant. So Pedro sent his spymaster, Duke Aregisel, to investigate.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by Sepiche »

If this game has been getting anyone else in the mood to ingest some medieval history, may I recommend A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman of Guns of August fame.
In this sweeping historical narrative, Barbara Tuchman writes of the cataclysmic 14th century, when the energies of medieval Europe were devoted to fighting internecine wars and warding off the plague. Some medieval thinkers viewed these disasters as divine punishment for mortal wrongs; others, more practically, viewed them as opportunities to accumulate wealth and power. One of the latter, whose life informs much of Tuchman's book, was the French nobleman Enguerrand de Coucy, who enjoyed the opulence and elegance of the courtly tradition while ruthlessly exploiting the peasants under his thrall. Tuchman looks into such events as the Hundred Years War, the collapse of the medieval church, and the rise of various heresies, pogroms, and other events that caused medieval Europeans to wonder what they had done to deserve such horrors.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by El Guapo »

Sepiche wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:21 pm
If this game has been getting anyone else in the mood to ingest some medieval history, may I recommend A Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman of Guns of August fame.
In this sweeping historical narrative, Barbara Tuchman writes of the cataclysmic 14th century, when the energies of medieval Europe were devoted to fighting internecine wars and warding off the plague. Some medieval thinkers viewed these disasters as divine punishment for mortal wrongs; others, more practically, viewed them as opportunities to accumulate wealth and power. One of the latter, whose life informs much of Tuchman's book, was the French nobleman Enguerrand de Coucy, who enjoyed the opulence and elegance of the courtly tradition while ruthlessly exploiting the peasants under his thrall. Tuchman looks into such events as the Hundred Years War, the collapse of the medieval church, and the rise of various heresies, pogroms, and other events that caused medieval Europeans to wonder what they had done to deserve such horrors.
I'd also recommend this book on the Norman conquest of England. Also covers the 100+ years leading up to it, including a lot of the scandinavian incursions. Really great and readable medieval history.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

jztemple2 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:52 am
My army is just over ten thousand strong, making it stronger than all my neighbors. Only the Holy Roman Empire is stronger with over twenty-seven thousand.
My current army with my new king is just over eight thousand, still pretty sizeable and only smaller than the Holy Roman Empire with over twenty-seven thousand and the Papacy with thirty-five thousand :shock:. Guess who I'm not going to cross anytime soon!

UPDATE: And the Byzantine empire with twenty-five thousand but unlike the Papacy, the Byzantines haven't been seen in my neighborhood.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Made a couple of strategic marriage arrangements. Married my son to the daughter of the Queen of the Danelaw and betrothed my daughter to the son of the King of Wales. With part of Scotland in the hands of the Holy Roman Empire I think it will be my aim to take the rest!

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Hmm, small problem, the King of Scotland is allied with the Byzantine Emperor with those thirty-five thousand troops :roll:. Still, the Byz is buzy fighting a couple of wars on the other end of Europe. So my bishop is fabricating a claim on a county of Scotland to give us a reason to attack.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Uh-oh

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While performing her duties as my Spymaster, Duchess Njåves has uncovered a secret held by my lover Failenn. Not only is she in fact a bastard, but... I am her true father.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Well, this rather ruins my plan to carve out a part of Scotland for myself... there's no more Scotland!

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

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And this ruins all my plans... I'm dead, long live me! Only a sixteen month reign, hardly enough to screw things up. At least death clears up having to explain that relationship with my coutier :wink:

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High King Måel-Coluim Il of Ireland rests in the arms of the Lord at 61 years of age. He died of old age. Known to be a respected scholar, he spent most of his days studying in his library, rarely leaving his castle. High King Öenucån mac Måel-Coluim ascends to the throne. A modest and temperate man, Öenucån's passive nature may also be his undoing.
Passive nature my ass! :D

UPDATE: It turns out that my new King, who has no offspring, is also sterile. It's going to be hard to make alliances!
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

OK, wait, I think I can figure this out... nope, I can't. It must be done with mirrors!

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While performing her duties as my Spymaster, Duchess Niåves has uncovered a secret held by my courtier Failenn. She is in fact the bastard child of her mother Failenn and High King Måel-Coluim! Unbelievable!
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Wait...

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While performing his duties as my Spymaster, Svein has uncovered a secret held by my Chancellor Æthelweard. He has secretly taken Failenn, a commoner from Czersk, as a lover.
I guess I shouldn't be happy about this, because Failenn was my father's lover. Also his daughter. And her own mother. Somehow this vaguely makes her my half-sister or my aunt, or both. My head hurts, and this is not helping my stress at all! :D
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

The map of Ireland changes again after I launch holy war against the French and seize part of the Duchy of Aquitaine. I'm now happy I didn't left Prince John go independent with my lands down there. The Kingdom of France is now just a shadow of its former self. Not bad for an Irish King with no foreign alliances! I don't remember that much about the mechanics of CKII, but it seems to me that it was harder to go to wars with your neighbors. Here I just have to have someone nearby be of a religion hostile to mine, have enough Piety points and I have an automatic casus belli against them.

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I'm back to having a really good time with CKIII again after being a bit burned out. I'm now up to sixty-five hours of gameplay and this is still my first run through. I can see how folks reached thousands of hours in CKII.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by Freyland »

Am I correct in understanding that their are several made-up versions of each religion, and someone only needs to be of a different version to declare a holy war? If so, that seems to really dilute the charm of the causes belli mechanism.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by Isgrimnur »

There are so many to choose from.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Freyland wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:41 pm
Am I correct in understanding that their are several made-up versions of each religion, and someone only needs to be of a different version to declare a holy war? If so, that seems to really dilute the charm of the causes belli mechanism.
It is more complicated that this (of course it is, this is CKIII!). I'll post a screenshot to explain. Click it to expand.
Enlarge Image

Here is a partial list of the Christian Faiths in the game at this time, there are sixteen of them. They aren't made up but are based on historic variations, off-shoots if you will, of Catholicism. In the list in the center you can see how many counties have a specific religion as their own. They also have Fervor, which I'll talk about in another post, maybe. On the left a religion is discussed in detail. Here's where I'm actually getting to your question :D. Up at the top you see the following:
We consider them Astray
They consider us Righteous
Astray and Righteous are two of the three possible relation states, the third is Hostile. So, I'm the Catholic King of Ireland. If a neighbor is of a different faith but we consider them Righteous, then we can interact with them without issues. We can marry, co-exist and have no casus belli with them. We can Usurp their titles.

On the other hand, if they are Astray, then their Faith differs in a way that is not particularly significant, so intermarriage may still happen. Character Opinion is -10 and Popular Opinion is -15, and we can usurp their Titles. Again, we have no casus belli.

Finally, we can consider them Hostile. Their Faith deviates significantly from ours. Intermarriage may still happen, Holy Wars can be waged.
Effects:
• Character Opinion: -20
• Popular Opinion: -30
• Can start Great Holy Wars against them
• Cannot usurp their Titles
• Can use Holy Orders against them

So, that's the situation. If you'd like an example, just look at the Catholics versus the Protestants in the Late Middle Ages. And of course there are a zillion other faiths in the game... well, maybe not that many, probably no Jediism for instance.

Did I answer your question Freyland? Did I? Are you there? Hello? Bueller? Bueller?
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by Freyland »

I'm feeling ignorant at the moment. How often did Holy Wars happen between European countries? I mean, i get they may not have like each other for religious reasons, but weren't European wars largely fought for territorial claims, real or fabricated?
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Freyland wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:54 am
I'm feeling ignorant at the moment. How often did Holy Wars happen between European countries? I mean, i get they may not have like each other for religious reasons, but weren't European wars largely fought for territorial claims, real or fabricated?
That's an interesting question you've raised. I was going to start mentioning various European religious wars, but every one I thought of happened after the time period of CKIII. Then I went to Wikipedia for this List of conflicts in Europe and skimming through the lists I didn't find any obvious examples in the time period.

The holy war I just fought in my game was against counties that had adopted the Adamite faith, but if you look in the associated Wikipedia article you'll note that, again, no mention of real world conflicts occurring during the game's time period.

So I guess what we have is a situation of the devs of CKIII giving us a game mechanic that represents what could have happened rather than what did. Maybe that's why I didn't remember this happening in CKII. Can anyone else recall a major European conflict fought over religious grounds between Christian entities during the game's time period?
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by Jeff V »

Sounds like a Casus Belli for the pope to annex your lands.
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by AWS260 »

Image

The Khaganate of Mongolia is looking pretty good, at least in this view. The just-deceased Khagan (chunky bald guy in the bottom corner) did a remarkable job of not only holding it together, but also expanding its borders a fair amount with a few well-chosen wars. He nearly lost it all to a rebellion in his final years, but thankfully his rival for the imperial throne died just a year before he did.

Before his death, the Khagan managed to convert the empire to Islam -- not because he loved it, but because having an organized religion is a prerequisite for converting from tribal to feudal government. Hopefully his heir can complete the remaining requirements and introduce a proper feudal system.

Now the eldest son takes the throne. On the plus side, the empire is at peace. On the other hand, most of his vassals strongly dislike him, so another rebellion is probably right around the corner.

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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

Jeff V wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:36 am
Sounds like a Casus Belli for the pope to annex your lands.
I'm sure that's why in my game the Pope is so damn powerful. I wonder what happens when the pope dies and a new one is elected. Does the pope lose most of his titles? Never mind, I see that the Pope is an unplayable character. Probably too easy to roll up the map.
AWS260 wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:32 pm
The Khaganate of Mongolia is looking pretty good, at least in this view.
Did you play the tutorial as the Irish? How different is playing the leader of Mongolia?
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

So with the acquisition of Aquitaine I now have a situation to address. I have eight holdings while seven is my nominal limit, plus I have three duchy title which annoys my vassals since they think that anymore than two is excessive. I had this situation come up last night and I posted to the CKIII forum with this question:
Gameplay suggestions wanted for the case of creating a new noble rather than giving a title to an existing one

OK, so here is my situation. I'm the King of Ireland and I now have three ducal titles and want to get rid of one to improve the opinions of my vassals. I was considering giving one to my existing vassals, all of whom have one ducal title already. But I'm thinking, perhaps instead of making one of the existing vassals even more powerful, I might take someone from my court without any titles and give them the ducal title. This allows me to pick someone I would prefer, not boost an already existing duke/duchess, and dilute the power of any one individual holding a ducal title by increasing the number of individuals holding that rank. Does that make sense to do it? Any useful suggestions appreciated.

Bonus questions! Suppose the courtier I pick to make a duke is lowborn and unmarried. Would it make sense to marry him to a member of my dynasty or house? Would it hurt to marry him to someone not lowborn but from outside of the Irish group and my dynasty? I'm figuring that this would somehow be involved with how that ducal title gets inherited. Any thoughts on this as well?
It was pointed out to me that I just can't give a ducal title to anyone, they have to be a vassal, in other words hold at least an earldom. No problem since I have an extra holding to give away. Thoughts were mixed on this. Some thought it was a good idea to avoid empowering a vassal holding a ducal title already with another title, while others thought that making a new duke with only one holding would only create a target for other dukes to war against. It was thought a good idea to make sure this person is married first to prevent the new title from being inherited to outside of Ireland.

Well, giving the title to someone who already holds a dukedom is something I've done before, so I'm going to try doing something new, picking out a deserving courtier and making him a duke! :D
"Today I will be as happy as a seagull with a french fry" - new sign on my back door.

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jztemple2
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

As I discussed above, I elevated a lowborn member of my court to first hold a county, then I made him a duke (there is a plot for a movie in there somewhere). He has a 100% opinion of me of course :wink:. And so far so good.

With a couple of Holy Wars against the French who still embrace the Adamite faith, my kingdom grows even larger. In the eleven years since I've come to power I've increased my holdings from two to seven (and sometimes eight actually ten right now, three over my limit!). My army has grown from six thousand to ten thousand and I now hold two duchies in what someday will be called France :D.
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"Today I will be as happy as a seagull with a french fry" - new sign on my back door.

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El Guapo
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by El Guapo »

Did Scotland regain independence from the HRE?

Also Flanders seems to be quite the world power in this scenario, relatively speaking.

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jztemple2
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Re: Crusader Kings III - The Sequel You Have Been Waiting For

Post by jztemple2 »

El Guapo wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:09 pm
Did Scotland regain independence from the HRE?

Also Flanders seems to be quite the world power in this scenario, relatively speaking.
Yup, Flanders is getting up in the world. Their king, who thinks 100% of me :mrgreen: is currently at war with what remains of France. Good for him!

Apparently Scotland is Scotland again, or at least part of it. The new King is Czech, so I'm thinking that this was some grant of independence given by the HRE to one of his vassals. Of course Scotland is now fighting three wars so things are going to be a might tough for them. And I might have to fabricate a claim on one of their counties to gain a casus belli, something which is 75% faster since my lifestyle is Foreign Affairs Focused :D

Meanwhile another holy war with France has netted me three new holdings as mentioned above, which allowed me to create the title of Duchy of Gascogne. I found another lucky courtier with no ties, married him to another lowborn, then gave him the duchy title and three holdings of mine, bringing me back within limits both on duchy count and holdings. And again I have another vassal with a very high opinion of me. France is now a splotch smaller than the new Scotland, so when my truce runs out (something that happens faster with my lifestyle choice :D) I'll be going in for the kill, if Flanders hasn't gotten it first!
"Today I will be as happy as a seagull with a french fry" - new sign on my back door.

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