Octopus Overlords

I think FTL: Faster Than Light is a great example, but it might be special.

Othercide is another good example. It has a story which isn't in your face; you can immerse yourself in it as much as you like. And you're practically guaranteed to be stronger on each successive run. It's probably the best roguelike I've ever played.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:56 pm A 4x, or even a survival game, has a progression of events. A start, a middle, and eventual end (be it by objective or burnout.) Most roguelikes have a start, a start, a start, and a start.

Or more like re-start!

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:21 pm It's an activity purely for the sake of being an activity.

also see - every arcade game ever

but that's exactly it! it's the gameplay mechanics that are what is interesting about playing games, to me. if those are strong, i don't need _anything_ else.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:26 pm I agree with that. I guess because with 4X games, it comes across in our experiences. With Roguelikes, in my experience at least, it always seems to be about the game mechanics first, with gameplay taking a backseat.

...isn't 'game mechanics' the very definition of 'gameplay' ?

story and narrative are not gameplay. chess, go, backgammon, football, badminton, cricket....

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:34 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:21 pm It's an activity purely for the sake of being an activity.

also see - every arcade game ever

No coincidentally, arcade games (including modern ones) tend to bore me to tears after about 15 minutes of simply doing the same thing over and over.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:34 pm

...isn't 'game mechanics' the very definition of 'gameplay' ?

Not necessarily, but it may depend on how someone looks at it. I see game mechanics as some skeletal structrure holding the gameplay together, ie a game might have a whole bunch of new innovative game mechanics, with each successive sequel adding new ones. Some game mechanics disappear completely into the gameplay as you stop thinking about them, but others such as roguelikes have game elements that are right at the surface and never tend to disappear. In otherwords, I don't find them immersive because they feel too 'gamey' via its grinding. By its very nature, the roguelike has you dying to progress and really likes to hold you to its structure and it's hard to ignore. The game mechanics seem to come first, then the actual bit of gameplay as an afterthought.

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:53 am Not a roguelike, but Civilization/4X is another genre I can think of that usually lacks a strong external narrative. But when designed well, the story emerges through the events of each game, and in the case of Civ can be shaped especially by memorable and unique maps. Some of the best stories I've experiencing in gaming occurred inside my head over the course of an interesting Civ game. Roguelikes aren't typically so open-ended, but I can see similar occurring in a title like Darkest Dungeon with units who develop weaknesses and survive longer than you ever expected.

That is a great comparison. I don't play many of the more modern roguelike games but the originals (Rogue, Nethack, Angband, ADOM well before Steam) always felt similar to 4x games. They were turn based resource management where certain portions of the start were the same each game but rapidly the different loot/different map led to developing stories. Caves of Qud is a recent game that gives that feeling.

The flip side is that both roguelike games and 4x only appeal to me when the game is turn based. Adding a reaction speed component like souls-like game ruins the experience for me.

Witcher 3 is....ok? I am struggling to find the urge to continue playing it. I jumped into Assassins Creed Odyssey and really enjoying it. I will give W3 another shot but the pull isn’t strong. Let’s see if that changes.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:06 pmThis, and approximately 100% of all console games.

Yeah ... I think I've enjoyed maybe 1 or 2 titles in the last 5 years that were designed to be played with a controller. It's just not my medium.

Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:48 am

Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:06 pmThis, and approximately 100% of all console games.

Yeah ... I think I've enjoyed maybe 1 or 2 titles in the last 5 years that were designed to be played with a controller. It's just not my medium.

Me neither. JRPGs are another genre that leave me cold. /shrug

I wish I could appreciate JRPGs like I did in the SNES and PSX eras, from when I was an older kid into my late teens. They were truly like crack. I couldn't find one that I wouldn't blitz through in a week or less. To name a few: Mario RPG, Robotrek, Lufia II (I somehow played this not realizing it was a sequel... I thought the backstory they kept alluding too was really just backstory lol. Still such a great game, though.), Tales of Destiny, Vandal Hearts II, Front Mission III, Skies of Arcadia (DC)... NOT Beyond the Beyond, that steaming pile....

While they have evolved in ways since then, too many tedious genre conventions and Japanese weirdness remains. (I say that with love.) Obviously, there are exceptions. But a flagship JRPG is often still a JRPG. I also don't generally care for the anime style and the melodrama it tends to bring with it, so I was kind of pushed away when many franchises were finally able to technically accomplish their dream of becoming living anime.

I generally agree about JRPGs, though one exception for me are the Ni No Kuni games. There's just something about them that I find so mesmerizing.

I'll add all of the Call of Duty games.

The Total War series. Shallow strategy, buggy, real-time battles. I guess you need to enjoy tactics management to like this series but I never got into it. Only really played the first Shogun game at any length, mostly because of the history/setting.

Europa Universalis IV. While I love many other Paradox titles (CKII and Stellaris in particular) I felt EU4 was too impersonal. Also didn't care for the board-gamey mana system.

Obsidian isometric RPG games (Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny etc). People keep telling me they have great writing. I keep responding that verbose over-writing isn't "great writing". If I wanted to read a fanfiction quality novel, I'd sit down with Brian Herbert's Dune prequels or something. It's not what I'm looking for in a game.

Kingdom Hearts... It SHOULD be my cup of tea as I love Disney stuff, but man I can never get anywhere in those games before just giving up in frustration. The beginnings are so boring and the combat is meh.

Octavious wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:52 pm Kingdom Hearts... It SHOULD be my cup of tea as I love Disney stuff, but man I can never get anywhere in those games before just giving up in frustration. The beginnings are so boring and the combat is meh.

Another one to add to my list. Final Fantasy is my favorite game series ever and I like Disney, but thought all those games were terrible.

Ooooo... Kingdom Hearts is a good one. I finished the first one MANY years ago (at launch?) but there are parts of the game I still despise. Tried to replay it with the kids and we got nowhere.

I also agree on Obsidian RPGs. Never got into any of those titles recently mentioned.

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:59 pm I think FTL: Faster Than Light is a great example, but it might be special.

I went back to it. Struggled on Normal. Moved it down to Easy, managed two takedowns of the boss, then died. Into the Abandoned column with you!

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:14 pm

Sudy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 1:59 pm I think FTL: Faster Than Light is a great example, but it might be special.

I went back to it. Struggled on Normal. Moved it down to Easy, managed two takedowns of the boss, then died. Into the Abandoned column with you!

If you've had it with FTL, I recommend trying Renowned Explorers: International Society instead:



The mechanics and theme are totally different, but it definitely captures an FTL-esque feeling with plenty of interesting challenges and decisions, and each run feeling like its own little adventure. The combat is obviously completely different and surprisingly deep, but the way you progress through the game feels fairly similar -- travelling from node to node, upgrading your party, managing resources, and making choices in story events.