[PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

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JCC
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by JCC »

So I think the Kotaku Review nails Deathloop. This pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the good and bad of Deathloop. It's telling to me that I haven't played it for a few days in favor of watching TV. It's not that I don't enjoy it, but I just need some time off from repeating these same levels over and over.
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"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don't alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views." - The 4th Doctor
JCC
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by JCC »

Haven't been back to Deathloop since my last post. I have been distracted by playing other stuff - including Dishonored 2 - which I enjoy so much more. In addition to not having the stupid 2 power restriction, I just like going to multiple different levels which on the whole I find much more interesting than the ones in Deathloop. I will get back to Deathloop because I do really like it, but I was already bored of going over the same levels again so the break will help with that. I also hate not having a save anywhere. I hate that in all games really.
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"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don't alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views." - The 4th Doctor
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baelthazar
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by baelthazar »

So I beat the game, which took about ~17 hours. I didn't do EVERYTHING, nor did I delve into a few secrets, but overall I felt like I got a good assessment of what was going on. Here are some of my thoughts.

General about the game:
  • The game was fun to play. Yes, I understand that the repetition gets on some people's nerves, but I like roguelike games, so this is sort of the FPS equivalent. It was fun to test out moves and weapons in different situations. I also liked the "puzzle" aspect, going to old places to discover new things. As the game drew to a close, this got less exciting, but it was fun nonetheless.
  • That all said, by the end I had arrived at basically using the same weapons (elite-level shotgun, purple-level nail gun, elite-level pistol/submachine gun combo) and powers (Nexus and Aether). I could have had fun with other builds, but some of the powers just cause too much attention and not enough payoff. For a long time I relied on Havoc to just barrel through, until I got the Aether mod to not use power when standing still. At the very end, the slug mode from the elite shotgun was all I used as a weapon.
  • The way the game operates, you sometime miss the cool interactions between NPCs. For example, I had to read that Alexus's party was cannibalistic, because - if I got close enough to observe what they were doing, the party devolved into everyone coming to get me. Sure, that was likely due to my skills at stealth, but I pretty much use Aether to go everywhere invisibly, and I still didn't get to see this. A lot of the game is like that - the instant aggro means missing things.
  • While the PVP invasions were fun, by the end of the game I turned them off (solo mode) so that Juliana would simply be an AI. This is largely because I would make significant progress towards ending the game, then get that progress stopped when another player jumped in and out gunned me. PVP also artificially lengthened the game, when I had a player invade, I had to stop my mission to deal with that, playing this cat and mouse game before moving on. One thing I think the devs should do to improve people's sanity would be to limit the amount of invasions to ONE per loop (if I kill Juliana, she should have to wait until next loop to invade). That would limit the disruption actual players could do to your game.
  • I certainly appreciate that the game doesn't go the way of Dishonored and force you into a non-lethal approach to get a "good" ending. Because these people all come back to life next morning, the "guilt" held by your character is pretty low.
Speaking of the ending. I have HUGE thoughts about this, that I am going to put into spoiler tags. My one non-spoiler comment is - if you expect to get this brain melting explanation for everything at the end, you are going to be sorely disappointed.
Spoiler:
There are three endings, based on ONE decision point that you make during the end sequence. I approve of this, as I hate it when a decision you made hours ago basically chooses the ending for you. The three endings vaguely translate to "End Loop," "Return to Loop," "Reconcile with Juliana and join her in the Loop." People are arguing about which of these is the "Good" ending - in my opinion it is the "Reconcile" ending. Other people think it is the "End Loop" ending. The "Return to Loop" is not actually an ending - it dumps you back to try to end the game again.

I chose the Reconcile ending, because it seemed like the natural progression for the game. After all, the game isn't really about freeing people from time, but rather your relationship with Juliana and atoning for what Cole has done countless times. At first, I was hugely let down by it. It basically just "ends" with her saying "Let's cause havoc in the Loop and meet up for drinks." OK. No info on why she remembers things. No info on the past time Cole betrayed her and killed her. No info on what is outside the loop (you don't get this at all, no matter what). No real glimpse at what happens next.

As I thought about this ending, I got more out of it. She says you forget (and get stuck) when you get bored. So Cole got bored at some point before you pick up the game and forgot his previous progress. He has done this countless times, according to Juliana. But apparently he NEVER decided to keep the Loop and reconcile. Or if he did, he got bored of that too. There is a commentary about life here, and parenthood, I guess. The more you think about it, the more you can interpret things.

The "End the Loop" ending is highly unsatisfying. You alienate Juliana and the Loop ends. The sky looks weird. You get no idea of what is happening in the world. Some people have argued the sky looks like the scene from Prey (also Arkane) where the Typhon take over Earth. Maybe? Others have argued that Deathloop shares the same world as Dishonored (similar military garb and steampunk weapons), albeit perhaps decades or centuries later. All this is speculative, because all you get is an angry Juliana and a "huh, I did it."
And thus ends my Ted Talk about Deathloop.
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baelthazar
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by baelthazar »

One last thing - I am not sure I want to keep the game for the inevitable DLC. They will probably have it be playing Juliana, which makes sense. Or maybe about her first few loops (like when Cole decided to kill everyone). Or perhaps even about the Horizon program, which is hinted at a lot. All of these would be compelling... but maybe not enough to play again. I really loved the game, overall, but I sort of got what I needed out of it.

I felt the same way about Bioshock Infinite. Sure, it made very little sense. Sure the DLC added a lot more (apparently excellent) context. But I never played it because I felt the original story sort of packed it up nicely. I can always watch spoiler videos of the future DLC, I guess.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Isgrimnur »

Finished.

And I went with the:
Spoiler:
reconcile ending
The internet tells me there's an update for one of the endings.
Spoiler:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
JCC
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by JCC »

I tried hard with Deathloop but I just don't like these reset/replay game mechanics. Majora's Mask is still the only Zelda I have never finished because of this. And, I just can't make myself finish Deatloop either. I just can't STAND the rinse/repeat gameplay mechanic. (See what I did there?)

I would much prefer a Dishonored 3 title. But, I do agree they shouldn't punish you with a "bad ending" for wanting to kill people vs. incapacitate them. Sadly, I don't think I am going to get my wish.

I miss Thief and Dishonored so much.
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"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common: they don't alter their views to fit the facts; they alter the facts to fit their views." - The 4th Doctor
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Blackhawk
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Blackhawk »

This is on sale. I'm trying to figure out if I'd enjoy it. I've looked at a couple of reviews, and I... have absolutely no clue. They try to explain the loop mechanic, but don't quite nail it.

My impression right now is that it's a rogue-lite, where you die/fail repeatedly, restarting each time, but some items (which you've upgraded) stay with you, allow you to progress in one way while things are reset in another. What I haven't been able to figure out is if anything changes between 'loops.' Are you repeating exactly the same levels, over and over? One of the things that makes (some) rogue-lites tolerable is that the levels themselves are generated, meaning that you're facing a new experience on every attempt. I'm not sure I find the idea of repeating identical levels over and over all that appealing.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Isgrimnur »

There are four different areas and four different times of day. Each of those 16 combinations will be identical every time you start them, but each area will be different based on the time of day. The trick is that you're gathering information and resources in order to murder the PsTB in order to break the loop.
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Blackhawk
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Blackhawk »

So lobby + morning is different from lobby + afternoon?

I just don't relish the thought of doing exactly the same level over and over and over again. But the aesthetic really appeals to me.
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JCC
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by JCC »

The loop mechanic is what ruined the game for me. Just not my thing. It's the exact same thing that makes Majora's Mask the only Zelda I haven't finished. I get worn down by the repetition and just don't like the mechanic.

I have zero interest in the new Arkane multi-shooter Redfall too. I have given up on a 3rd Dishonored which kind of breaks my heart.
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Alefroth
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Alefroth »

I see what you did there.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Isgrimnur »

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 1:53 am So lobby + morning is different from lobby + afternoon?
Correct. The overall architecture will be the same, but the main characters you are after may or may not be present, certain areas may now or may not be accessible. You won't be doing the same level at the same time of day just to grind. New information will lead you to different locations at different times of day, and you may have to go back to ones you've done, but it will be with more information and different goals.
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Blackhawk
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Blackhawk »

Gotcha. So trying to figure out who will be where and when over the early runs, then structuring the actual 'final loop' so as to hit them all? That's actually a lot more appealing than just a non-procedural rogue-lite.
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disarm
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by disarm »

Sounds like playing Outer Wilds...learn pieces from every loop, then assemble all you've learned into one race against time. That game was awesome, so maybe I need to check this one out...
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coopasonic
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by coopasonic »

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Jul 01, 2023 1:48 pm Gotcha. So trying to figure out who will be where and when over the early runs, then structuring the actual 'final loop' so as to hit them all? That's actually a lot more appealing than just a non-procedural rogue-lite.
Just to take a little of the wind out of your sails, unless they've changed it since release, you have to do the final loop in the order the game wants. In theory there are multiple ways you could achieve your goals, but the game wants what it wants. I was a bit disheartened by that.
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Carpet_pissr »

This is being given away on Amazon Prime Gaming starting 12/7 for anyone interested.
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Isgrimnur
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Re: [PC/PS4/PS5] Deathloop

Post by Isgrimnur »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:18 pm This is being given away on Amazon Prime Gaming starting 12/7 for anyone interested.
It's live.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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