Marvel's Netflix serieses

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by EvilHomer3k » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:46 am

Smoove_B wrote:That being said, I am excited for The Punisher, though I do wonder how he's going to play with casual fans. He's...not a nice guy. Then again, maybe because he's so different than what's currently available for entertainment, he might do well.
I think I would be a casual fan overall. I didn't know who Iron Fist was before the show. I am not an avid comic book reader. I have no idea who Night Nurse is. I have no outrage about the deadpool character being swapped to a different race as I didn't know who she was before. Most of my knowledge of Marvel comes from movies, pop culture, etcetera.

Deadpool did pretty well with casual fans. The Punisher looks great to me. Jon Bernthal was great in DD S2. He certainly can't be worse than what they've done with Iron Fist. Everything about that character has been bad. Bad acting, bad characterization, bad writing. You name it. All terrible. Anyway, Punisher looks awesome from a causal fan's perspective. Whether it's true to the comic I don't know (and don't care).
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by hepcat » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:33 pm

hepcat wrote:It's a testimony to the show's style when I actually look forward to the musical scenes at Cottonmouth's club. Raphael Saadiq, Method Man...all great...but good goddamn if 67 year old Funk singer Charles Bradley didn't make them all look like amateurs. I'm now searching for any and all music from this man. :shock:
Well crap, Charles Bradley has died at 68 years of age. I was just listening to his last album a few weeks ago. Such a great talent. :cry:
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by DD* » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:48 am

Well, I finished up Jessica Jones (damn!) and am working through season 2 of DD. Just started the arc with Matt's old flame, and it looks pretty damn interesting. The Punisher storyline was fantastic, IMO - very much looking forward to seeing where they go with it.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by $iljanus » Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:38 pm

hepcat wrote:
hepcat wrote:It's a testimony to the show's style when I actually look forward to the musical scenes at Cottonmouth's club. Raphael Saadiq, Method Man...all great...but good goddamn if 67 year old Funk singer Charles Bradley didn't make them all look like amateurs. I'm now searching for any and all music from this man. :shock:
Well crap, Charles Bradley has died at 68 years of age. I was just listening to his last album a few weeks ago. Such a great talent. :cry:
From a quick Wiki search his music shows up in a few shows. But it's Luke Cage which turned me on to him. Listening to the album "Changes: The Instrumentals" on Spotify and it just oozes cool. The producers made a great choice in Charles along with the other artists on Luke Cage. Not going to get into spoilerish specifics but it was a bit of a shame when the nemesis changed in the show. The club really was something to look forward to.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Punisher » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:38 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:That being said, I am excited for The Punisher, though I do wonder how he's going to play with casual fans. He's...not a nice guy. Then again, maybe because he's so different than what's currently available for entertainment, he might do well.
I think I would be a casual fan overall. I didn't know who Iron Fist was before the show. I am not an avid comic book reader. I have no idea who Night Nurse is. I have no outrage about the deadpool character being swapped to a different race as I didn't know who she was before. Most of my knowledge of Marvel comes from movies, pop culture, etcetera.

Deadpool did pretty well with casual fans. The Punisher looks great to me. Jon Bernthal was great in DD S2. He certainly can't be worse than what they've done with Iron Fist. Everything about that character has been bad. Bad acting, bad characterization, bad writing. You name it. All terrible. Anyway, Punisher looks awesome from a causal fan's perspective. Whether it's true to the comic I don't know (and don't care).
As a casual fan.. I am looking forward to it. :)
As for origin, I'm not sure yet. The origin from DD was pretty close. The origin implied in the trailer was different from DD and the comic.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by EvilHomer3k » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:20 pm

Second Punisher trailer is out. It is fantastic. The music fits the mood really well. Did I say the trailer was fantastic?
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by tjg_marantz » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:17 pm

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/re ... ew-1057289

Far better than 'Iron Fist,' Marvel's latest Netflix stand-alone is a tight, brutal six-episode story of revenge stretched exhaustingly and inexcusably over 13 hours.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by stimpy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:56 pm

tjg_marantz wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:17 pm
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/re ... ew-1057289

Far better than 'Iron Fist,' Marvel's latest Netflix stand-alone is a tight, brutal six-episode story of revenge stretched exhaustingly and inexcusably over 13 hours.
Ummmm......contradiction for $500, Alex.
If it is "a tight" six story episode, how can it also be "stretched exhaustingly and inexcusably"?
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:04 pm

His contention is that there was enough story for six hours, and they diluted it out to thirteen.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by hepcat » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:10 pm

Fingers crossed in hopes there's not even a hint of ninjas.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Ralph-Wiggum » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:17 pm

Variety seemed to really like it, but they only got to see the first six episodes for their review.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by EvilHomer3k » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:23 pm

I'll wait for a review that's less politically motivated. :roll:
It's the show's relationship with guns that's sure to cause the most unease for anybody who has sat in sadness in front of a news broadcast in recent years. Watching Frank Castle storming around in all black wearing the trademark Punisher skull while reports were breaking about a shooter in black killing 26 people in Texas was unsettling. Listening to pundits bemoan the lack of movement on sensible gun control while watching a show in which the opening credits are two minutes of loving close-ups of rifles forming into the Punisher skull made me flinch every time. I'm sure all involved would want to point out that The Punisher goes to great lengths to show the damage guns can do, but at the same time it's a show that treats every expelled cartridge, every smoking gun barrel and every sniper sight as nearly sexual. Take it as you will that this is a show that makes strong Second Amendment arguments and that treats its one liberal politician as a spineless and oblivious stooge when he isn't speaking in hollow platitudes about unenforceable policy. Having a show this turned-on about its firearms use in this particular moment is going to make The Punisher very popular in some circles and infuriating in others. Take that as knowledge, not as a pro or con. For me, it was a distraction, not a detraction per se; it wasn't the thing that kept me from getting completely involved in The Punisher.
Excessive gun violence in the Punisher? I'm shocked. Absolutely shocked. Said nobody ever. Next thing you know, someone will tell met that there are dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. I don't care if this show gets 1% at Rotten Tomatoes. Friday night I'm watching it. Not every episode but at least a few of them. I won't be thinking about real life gun violence. I won't be thinking about my job. I'll just be entertained and that's all I want.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by tjg_marantz » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:59 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:04 pm
His contention is that there was enough story for six hours, and they diluted it out to thirteen.
Can confirm.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by hepcat » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:26 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:17 pm
Variety seemed to really like it, but they only got to see the first six episodes for their review.
The other 7 episodes are the ones that the negative review were specifically talking about. They all are just an extended scene of Frank at the DMV trying to renew a class C driver's license.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Zaxxon » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:30 pm

Image

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:40 pm

Not sure if it's my internet speed or the embedded image. Bravo.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by TheMix » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:43 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:40 pm
Not sure if it's my internet speed or the embedded image. Bravo.
That got a chuckle. :lol:
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Zaxxon » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:46 pm

TheMix wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:43 pm
Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:40 pm
Not sure if it's my internet speed or the embedded image. Bravo.
That got a chuckle. :lol:
Indeed. I see someone's not up on his Zootopia...


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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by TheMix » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 pm

I assume that was directed at Smoove. I got the reference immediately. And juxtaposed with Smoove's well-known internet speed... Whether he got the reference or not, I thought it was well done. Hence the chuckle.

Edit: Nevermind. I see now that you were agreeing with me. For some reason I didn't read/interpret "indeed" properly the first time.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Punisher » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:58 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:23 pm
I'll wait for a review that's less politically motivated. :roll:
It's the show's relationship with guns that's sure to cause the most unease for anybody who has sat in sadness in front of a news broadcast in recent years. Watching Frank Castle storming around in all black wearing the trademark Punisher skull while reports were breaking about a shooter in black killing 26 people in Texas was unsettling. Listening to pundits bemoan the lack of movement on sensible gun control while watching a show in which the opening credits are two minutes of loving close-ups of rifles forming into the Punisher skull made me flinch every time. I'm sure all involved would want to point out that The Punisher goes to great lengths to show the damage guns can do, but at the same time it's a show that treats every expelled cartridge, every smoking gun barrel and every sniper sight as nearly sexual. Take it as you will that this is a show that makes strong Second Amendment arguments and that treats its one liberal politician as a spineless and oblivious stooge when he isn't speaking in hollow platitudes about unenforceable policy. Having a show this turned-on about its firearms use in this particular moment is going to make The Punisher very popular in some circles and infuriating in others. Take that as knowledge, not as a pro or con. For me, it was a distraction, not a detraction per se; it wasn't the thing that kept me from getting completely involved in The Punisher.
Excessive gun violence in the Punisher? I'm shocked. Absolutely shocked. Said nobody ever. Next thing you know, someone will tell met that there are dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. I don't care if this show gets 1% at Rotten Tomatoes. Friday night I'm watching it. Not every episode but at least a few of them. I won't be thinking about real life gun violence. I won't be thinking about my job. I'll just be entertained and that's all I want.
Wait..What?? WTH is The Punisher doing with guns.. This is completely ridiculous and something I don't appreciate with The Punisher.. I'm gonna have to change my username and completely ignore the Netflix show.. In fact, I'm canceling Netflix..
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:07 pm

I have a kid; of course I've seen Zootopia. :D

Here's the thing about the Punisher - in modern America, there will never be a good time to release his story. He's a screwed up dude - majorly screwed up. It actually makes me uncomfortable to read that military units and police departments have adopted his logo. Don't get me wrong - I'm a huge fan of the Punisher (comics) but it's pretty easy to miss the point (as would be suggested when police officers use his emblem). I also think Rorschach is a fantastic character - and they're quite similar. Frank Castle is just at a whole different level.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Pyperkub » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:11 pm

I was never much of a fan of the Punisher - possibly for that exact reason. Spider-Man and with great power comes great responsibility always resonated more to me.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:21 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:07 pm
It actually makes me uncomfortable to read that military units and police departments have adopted his logo.
People that work with guns like a guy that is synonymous with guns. And then there's the whole hero aspect of it. They're still people.

And I can find nothing to confirm that they are officially adopted by police or military units. At best, they're morale patches.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Punisher » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:06 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:11 pm
I was never much of a fan of the Punisher - possibly for that exact reason. Spider-Man and with great power comes great responsibility always resonated more to me.
As much of a fan as I am of The Punisher and pro law enforcement, I always felt that this decision was not a good one... IT's one thing if officers decide to wear it while off duty or something, but I have seen this on patrol cars and it just isn't right in my eyes..
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:12 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:21 pm
And I can find nothing to confirm that they are officially adopted by police or military units. At best, they're morale patches.
The most recent adoption by a police agency (that made the news and that I'm aware of) is here. Not surprisingly, once it went public they were ordered to remove it. You can read about the military's relationship with the Punisher here. It's also a logo that's seemingly been adopted by the Three Percenters as well, which is just gross.

As a fan of the comics, it's one of the reasons I wouldn't ever wear a shirt or hat with that logo - it's taken on a new meaning.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by morlac » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:02 pm

EvilHomer3k wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:23 pm
I'll wait for a review that's less politically motivated. :roll:
It's the show's relationship with guns that's sure to cause the most unease for anybody who has sat in sadness in front of a news broadcast in recent years. Watching Frank Castle storming around in all black wearing the trademark Punisher skull while reports were breaking about a shooter in black killing 26 people in Texas was unsettling. Listening to pundits bemoan the lack of movement on sensible gun control while watching a show in which the opening credits are two minutes of loving close-ups of rifles forming into the Punisher skull made me flinch every time. I'm sure all involved would want to point out that The Punisher goes to great lengths to show the damage guns can do, but at the same time it's a show that treats every expelled cartridge, every smoking gun barrel and every sniper sight as nearly sexual. Take it as you will that this is a show that makes strong Second Amendment arguments and that treats its one liberal politician as a spineless and oblivious stooge when he isn't speaking in hollow platitudes about unenforceable policy. Having a show this turned-on about its firearms use in this particular moment is going to make The Punisher very popular in some circles and infuriating in others. Take that as knowledge, not as a pro or con. For me, it was a distraction, not a detraction per se; it wasn't the thing that kept me from getting completely involved in The Punisher.
Excessive gun violence in the Punisher? I'm shocked. Absolutely shocked. Said nobody ever. Next thing you know, someone will tell met that there are dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. I don't care if this show gets 1% at Rotten Tomatoes. Friday night I'm watching it. Not every episode but at least a few of them. I won't be thinking about real life gun violence. I won't be thinking about my job. I'll just be entertained and that's all I want.
From what I took on the quoted article it was less about the gun violence and more about the gun worship that was disturbing to the author. Slight but significant difference. You can have one without the other.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by hentzau » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:08 pm

Pyperkub wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:11 pm
I was never much of a fan of the Punisher - possibly for that exact reason. Spider-Man and with great power comes great responsibility always resonated more to me.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Torfish » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:30 pm

I've watched the first four episodes of Punisher. Super good so far. Everything that I wanted it to be and more.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Reemul » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:34 am

Yep I watched the first 3 last night, really enjoying it.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by msteelers » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:37 am

We finished the first episode yesterday, and it's really good. I'm looking forward to watching another episode tonight.

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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by EvilHomer3k » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:42 pm

Three episodes in and I'm loving it so far. Could use more sexy gun violence though.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Combustible Lemur » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:08 pm

Two episodes in, meh. Better than Iron fist by miles and maybe defenders due to directing and cinematography touch. The dialogue is bad, the tropes are abundant, and I already feel like this is going to be his reintroduction arc but super stretched out.
Spoiler:
Really the highly trained NSA spook hacker gets one Menacing phone retort and becomes comically inept sidekick victim? We get it, Punisher is awesome and he's now a counter Intel specialist.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by GargoyleBoy » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:59 am

Finished watching the series last night and I have complicated feels.

The bad:

As a paean to masculinity, it falls short. It almost plays better as a parody about shoot-em-ups than as a serious show. It's a show about gun violence written by someone with little working knowledge of guns.
Spoiler:
At one point, someone is shot in the face by a high-caliber weapon, and spits out the bullet. At another, someone is shot in the arm by a similar weapon, and the bullet seems to stop a quarter-inch in.
Bullets appear to travel with the force of narrative expediency, for better or worse.

Yes, the violence is gratuitous at times, which is expected, but at times you could almost sense the authors pubescent glee at it.
Spoiler:
In one episode, (non-gun) violence is interspersed with flashback sex scenes in a way that seemed to lack emotional honesty and comes across instead as gross.
It's narrative it lends itself to political discussion, which I won't get into here, except to note
Spoiler:
that they portray the only staunchly anti-gun character as a colossal coward when the going gets rough.
An entire storyline is devoted to a discussion of gun rights that seems to flounder as the main proponent is
Spoiler:
a desperate and confused veteran with Taxi Driver aspirations and a serious case of hero worship
.

The good:

Jon Bernthal is perfectly cast, and brings humor to an otherwise humorless character. His interactions with Micro, and I'm thinking of two scenes in particular
Spoiler:
The sandwich scene, and the scene at the end - "You had access to that kind of money and you made us live in that dump?"
showed an unexpected nuance - Bernthal's Punisher is not a nihilist, he is a man still able to laugh and love, which I feel is essential to this character. Bernthal is able to convey the scope of his "emotional journey" - as trite as that sounds - (his humor, fears, love, and rage) in an almost entirely unspoken way. I liked him as Shane in The Walking Dead, and his brief run as Punisher in the previous Marvel series, but I feel, oddly, that this is his most nuanced work to date. His Punisher is damaged but not broken.

Bernthal's dynamic with Deborah Ann Woll (Karen Page) is full of chemistry and unspoken feeling. Woll is a charismatic actress, and I've enjoyed her as Karen Page in the other Marvel series and as Jessica in True Blood before this - she seems to have an understated relatability that translates well to the actors and actresses she stars alongside. Together, they make their characters' complicated feelings for each other palpable, and I love it.

Ultimately, this was a complicated show that I feel was hindered by sub-par writing, and saved by phenomenal acting.
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Re: Marvel's Netflix serieses

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:08 pm

GargoyleBoy wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:59 am
Ultimately, this was a complicated show that I feel was hindered by sub-par writing, and saved by phenomenal acting.
Just finished this last night (Merry Christmas!) and I agree completely. It was leaps and bounds better than Iron First, in part, because of the actors. I really enjoyed the experience overall - never felt like it was dragging or that there were filler episodes. Looking forward to more, absolutely.

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