Metallica S&M

[Roman]

Just have to gush here.
But I watching this for the first time after having listened to the soundtrack umpteen times already.

I would have to say (bet even) that even the non-metallica fan would enjoy this concert. Having the symphony accomany their music was a stroke of genious in my mind.

And to move to another topic - lip synching - Is it my imagination or does James Hetfield sound fantastic? I mean there is no way that he has a vocal track behind him (ala that Simpson chick)

Do yourself a favour and watch this one again, or rent it if you have never seen/heard this one - I think that you will find yourself pleasantly surprised.

Roman

[Odin]

I never thought Hetfield had a particularly notable voice. In fact, it's only been in the last ten years or so (well after they were a mega-band) that he even attempted to "sing." If you listen to anything up through And Justice for All, he's really just kind of screaming/chanting the lyrics, with no attempt at anything approaching harmony or range. Course it's hard to be lyrical when you're trying to keep up with the pace of speed metal. Their new stuff being less frenetic gives him more opportunities to experiment.

He does have a powerful voice though. It's not as if he sounds like Lemmy from Motorhead or anything (goddammit man, clear your throat!). And I also have to agree that S&M is outstanding. I just wish there wasn't 30 second of applause at the beginning of track 1. It was ok the first time, but after playing it a hundred times I really just want the music to start.

[warning]

I watched the whole thing in two sittings with my 7 year-old son. We both loved it.

[knob]

I don't know, I just haven't been able to support Metallica after the whole Napster thing. And I've never even been big on the downloading music thing. Something about it just bugged the hell out of me.

[The Mad Hatter]

I don't know, I just haven't been able to support Metallica after the whole Napster thing. And I've never even been big on the downloading music thing. Something about it just bugged the hell out of me.

Agreed, I was a huge Metallica fan from their speed metal days but the Napster thing soured me on them. I would never buy anything of theirs.

[Kelric]

I've had the two CD-set since the week they came out and I've been in love with those CDs ever since. I'm probably close to wearing them out, they get a ton of airtime. I didn't ever realize there was actually concert footage (I assume there's a DVD of the concert you can buy), though I probably should have figured it out. Those two discs sometimes make it into my 'Best CD of All Time' discussions.

[gorky1]

I just wish there wasn't 30 second of applause at the beginning of track 1. It was ok the first time, but after playing it a hundred times I really just want the music to start.

Why don't you just edit that out and burn a copy? I do that with all the CDs I buy.

[Two Sheds]

S&M is friggin' fantastic. I've had the CD set since it was released. Actually, I can't even listen to plain old Metallica any more--it just doesn't sound right without that orchestra.

[Odin]

I just wish there wasn't 30 second of applause at the beginning of track 1. It was ok the first time, but after playing it a hundred times I really just want the music to start.

Why don't you just edit that out and burn a copy? I do that with all the CDs I buy.

Um, cuz I'm lazy? Duh!

[ArmyOfOne]

S&M was indeed a stroke of genius. Unfortunately all the credit can't go to Metallica. Several other bands did this before hand, but Metallica's production was by far the best.

This is where they should've gotten off.

3.5 years later. We (Metallica fans) are treated to the festering, steaming, pile of excrement we know as St. Anger. Don't get me wrong, I've been a Metallica fan for a very long time, since the beginning in fact. I liked Load. I liked Reload. I was comfortable with the bands musical evolution. I didn't care about the Napster thing, I was content.

Then they kicked me in the nutz. Those bastards! If this is the byproduct of the band going back on the wagon, I'm going to ship them a case of Jagermeister.

[Odin]

I hated the title track to St. Anger so much that I couldn't bring myself to even listen to the album. Reload was the first album of theirs that I didn't buy - ever. I'm not as thrilled either with their need to evolve - I find that the farther back I go, the more I enjoy their stuff. On the other hand, it's got to be hard to stay edgy and pissed when you're a multi-millionaire, so expecting them to produce the same material as when they were penniless probably isn't realistic.

One funny thing for me about St. Anger (the song) though - ever since the first time I heard it, I get an incongruous mental image at the words "push it out, push it out." No, it's not what you're thinking. Rather, I picture flamboyant male dancers behind the band, jogging in place and making pushing motions with their hands. That image hasn't helped me to like the song any more, of course.

Sith

[Steron]

Metallica rocks. Plain and simple. I have liked everything they have put out up to St. Anger. I HATE when people say they sold out. WTF does that mean? They evolved. Hetfield had a great quote when asked about the band selling out. He said "Sure we sold out. Every arena we play."

I didn't hate St. Anger. I didn't like it either. It sounded like they recorded it in a metal trash can. I heard James on SIRIUS the other day talking about going back into the studio next month. I have my fingers crossed.

[Jow]

S&M is the only "good" thing they've done, imo, since "And Justice for All". Load, Reload, St. Anger... None of it had the "oomph" of their older stuff.

[Odin]

Steron - I think it's fine that some people like every note they ever played. That's cool. For me, the change was so significant that they might as well not be the same band anymore. It's not as if I choose not to like their new stuff. I just don't like it.

And frankly, I've heard James's response to the "sold out" comment before. It's very clever, but you have to admit it doesn't in any way address the question of whether they changed musically or philisophically to become more mainstream and marketable. In fact, the notion that they routinely sell out their concerts would in fact be evidence that they might have changed to become more marketable and it worked (if not for the fact that they were already playing to sold out crowds long before the Black Album came out).

[Steron]

If you liked watching S&M you might was to check out Cunning Stunts. I have it and I think it's awesome.

[warning]

And frankly, I've heard James's response to the "sold out" comment before. It's very clever, but you have to admit it doesn't in any way address the question of whether they changed musically or philisophically to become more mainstream and marketable. In fact, the notion that they routinely sell out their concerts would in fact be evidence that they might have changed to become more marketable and it worked (if not for the fact that they were already playing to sold out crowds long before the Black Album came out).

Well yeah. It's not like they were eating ramen noodles in styrofoam cups off cardboard boxes before they released the Black Album. They "sold out" when they were a good metal band back in the heyday of metal. If not selling out was a concern, they would be playing polka.

[Steron]

Sith - Let me preface what I say here by saying that I'm not trying to force anyone to like Metallica's newer music. What I am doing is explaining why I think they didn't sell out.

I don't think it's a fair comparison to compare an album made when the band was nineteen to an album made when the band was thirty-five. The things that drive, anger, motivate, etc a nineteen year boy aren't the same things that motivate a thirty-five year man. And I think we can agree that those life experiences are what comes out in the music. Expecting a band to continue making the exact same clone of the previous album is unrealistic. The band evolves. The music changes.

Do you think that the Black Album was made to take the band mainstream for the sole purpose of making a few extra bucks? Or was it the band making a shift in their musical philosophy? Evolving.

[YellowKing]

I've been dying to get this DVD forever, but it's outrageously over-priced (at least locally). It went from like $20 to $25 to $30 to $35 and now it's like $40 at our local Best Buy.

[Petey Wheatstraw]

iI don't think it's a fair comparison to compare an album made when the band was nineteen to an album made when the band was thirty-five. The things that drive, anger, motivate, etc a nineteen year boy aren't the same things that motivate a thirty-five year man. And I think we can agree that those life experiences are what comes out in the music. Expecting a band to continue making the exact same clone of the previous album is unrealistic. The band evolves. The music changes.

Do you think that the Black Album was made to take the band mainstream for the sole purpose of making a few extra bucks? Or was it the band making a shift in their musical philosophy? Evolving.

Well put... Any band worth their salt cannot release the same album over and over again. AC/DC ceased to be interesting years ago, because everything they do sounds the same. They do it *well*, but there is absolutely no growth.

As far as I'm concerned "Master of Puppets" was the pinnacle of thrash (or whatever you want to call it) - the perfect mix of songwriting, technical ability, and "heavy". Then "Justice" came along, and it was just too... much... in the attempt to out-do "Puppets", something was lost. It came off as so much technical wanking in many cases... how many of you can regularly listen to the song "...And Justice For All" without your eyes glazing over somewhere at the 6-7 minute mark? I sure can't. They had gone as far as they could go, so something needed to change.

I never really understood the hate directed at the Black album - yeah, it's more radio-friendly - the songs are shorter, the melodies are catchier - but it's also *really good*. No, it's not Master of Puppets - it's the Black album. It shows a band that knows what it can accomplish technically - now they're trying something different, and succeeding brilliantly. There are still glimpses of the old Metallica, particularly near the end of the album. Anyone who listens to "Sad But True" and claim it isn't one of the heaviest things they've ever done needs to get their head checked.

On to Load - yeah, it had a "more of the same" vibe, and isn't as good as the Black album - still, there are a lot of good moments... I still regularly pull this one on. A previously image-less band got a lot of flack for changing their image - they all got haircuts, which was another example of "selling out" according to some. Newsflash - most of 'em were noticeably balding at this point. A skullet isn't metal, folks, it's just sad

St. Anger - no, I don't like it. But I respect the fact that they at least tried to do something different. The non-production and newly sober James didn't produce a compelling album this time around, but at they attempted to explore new areas - which is more than can be said of most 20+ year old rock bands.

[ArmyOfOne]

Actually it was Jason Newstead that made the "Sell out" comment.

I'm glad to hear that there's talk about going back into the studio. I'd love to see another album. I just hope someone reminds Lars to turn the snares back on. Oh, and bring Jason back. That new guy is a muppet.

[Odin]

Sith - Let me preface what I say here by saying that I'm not trying to force anyone to like Metallica's newer music. What I am doing is explaining why I think they didn't sell out.

I actually don't think they truly sold out either. I just think Hetfield's statement doesn't really address the issue.

I don't think it's a fair comparison to compare an album made when the band was nineteen to an album made when the band was thirty-five. The things that drive, anger, motivate, etc a nineteen year boy aren't the same things that motivate a thirty-five year man. And I think we can agree that those life experiences are what comes out in the music.

We certainly can agree, as I said almost exactly the same thing above.

it's got to be hard to stay edgy and pissed when you're a multi-millionaire, so expecting them to produce the same material as when they were penniless probably isn't realistic.

See? Same idea, just expressed more concisely.

Expecting a band to continue making the exact same clone of the previous album is unrealistic. The band evolves. The music changes.

Do you think that the Black Album was made to take the band mainstream for the sole purpose of making a few extra bucks? Or was it the band making a shift in their musical philosophy? Evolving.

It was probably a combination of both. I think they're fairly bright guys (particularly Ulrich and Hetfield) and they probably realized that they couldn't keep acting like 20-year-olds forever. They probably had an "artist's desire" to try new things. And I think they probably "evolved" unintentionally just by being different people than they were when they started. It's easy to sound pissed and outraged when you're really pissed and outraged. It's got to be harder when you have a staff of people waiting on you hand-and-foot. So I'd imagine that they may not even be capable of making the music they made in the 80's and having it ring sincere.

So is it ultimately unfair that I don't really like their new music as much as their older stuff (I also think Puppets was their masterpiece) and I don't buy their albums anymore? Sure, it's unfair. But the beauty of being the consumer is that I don't have to be fair. They can play whatever and however they want. I can choose to pay for it or not.

Sith

[LordMortis]

And Justice For All while still a good album, was the beginning of the end for them IMO. You could just feel the cracks in their music and the contradictions in their philosophy of music beginning to show through. Black really showed it all coming through and that was the end. Beyond the "maturing" of their music which I did not care for, milking the fans seemed like the number one priority. I never even bought the album. It seemed like the only reason to see the show would have been it was the only place on the planet where you could only hear "Enter Sandman" once in the course of a two hour period.

They could be phenomenal now for all I know, I just have no reason to give them the chance to piss on the band I loved growing up to.

[DiscoJason]

I actually kind of like St. Anger, though I admit it isn't their best work. Well, actually, the reason it isn't their best work is because of Ulrich's snare drum panging and the lack of any kind of production on the album. The songs are nice and heavy and it does seem to be a step back to their roots, but the sound quality of the recording just isn't very good. They should do the opposite of "Let it Be" and instead of releasing it as a Naked version, they could do St. Anger Clothed. Put some production in it and I think a lot of people might think better of it.