A Feast for Crows Discussion (Spoilerific!)

[Zaxxon]

Well I finished it off tonight. What a tumult of an ending. I think I'm going to have to sit here for a few days and let it soak in, then re-read the whole gorram series so that I can remember things clearly enough to participate in this discussion!

Having a sucky memory while reading multi-thousand-page epics with thousands of characters over several years is teh hard!

[Odin]

with thousands of characters

Roy Dotrice's website refers to his having portrayed some 500 distinct characters for the audio books. Add in all the characters they've referenced but who don't actually appear in the books (all of the former Targeryans, for example) and you probably have A thousand, tops. Quit exaggerating, sissy.

Sith

[Zaxxon]

with thousands of characters

Roy Dotrice's website refers to his having portrayed some 500 distinct characters for the audio books. Add in all the characters they've referenced but who don't actually appear in the books (all of the former Targeryans, for example) and you probably have A thousand, tops. Quit exaggerating, sissy.

Sith

There are 64 pages of names in the back of AFfC. Sixty-four. We're well over 1,000 once you include general references.

[slackerjoe]

Whew, I finally finished the book and reading this thread!

Good discussion so far, though I'm surprised that no one mentioned Tyrion's appearance in AFfC!

Maybe I got this totally wrong, but as soon as I read that Brienne chapter (Brienne II) with the wise-cracking dwarf priest, I knew it was Tyrion. I don't know how he covered up his various deformities (fake nose, heavy makeup, contact lenses?), but I expect we may be hearing more from the dwarf priest in the next book.

[Kelric]

Whew, I finally finished the book and reading this thread!

Good discussion so far, though I'm surprised that no one mentioned Tyrion's appearance in AFfC!

Maybe I got this totally wrong, but as soon as I read that Brienne chapter (Brienne II) with the wise-cracking dwarf priest, I knew it was Tyrion. I don't know how he covered up his various deformities (fake nose, heavy makeup, contact lenses?), but I expect we may be hearing more from the dwarf priest in the next book.

I'm about halfway to the second Brienne chapter. I'll pay special attention to the dwarf when I get to that chapter.

I read the first three books last fall/winter to get ready for the release of AFfC, read AFfC after Christmas and now I've re-read the first three books again and am on AFfC. Whew.

Love these books.

[Bob]

Whew, I finally finished the book and reading this thread!

Good discussion so far, though I'm surprised that no one mentioned Tyrion's appearance in AFfC!

Maybe I got this totally wrong, but as soon as I read that Brienne chapter (Brienne II) with the wise-cracking dwarf priest, I knew it was Tyrion. I don't know how he covered up his various deformities (fake nose, heavy makeup, contact lenses?), but I expect we may be hearing more from the dwarf priest in the next book.

Hmm... possible. The Hound is almost certaintly hiding in that monastery where they found his horse.

[Remus West]

Whew, I finally finished the book and reading this thread!

Good discussion so far, though I'm surprised that no one mentioned Tyrion's appearance in AFfC!

Maybe I got this totally wrong, but as soon as I read that Brienne chapter (Brienne II) with the wise-cracking dwarf priest, I knew it was Tyrion. I don't know how he covered up his various deformities (fake nose, heavy makeup, contact lenses?), but I expect we may be hearing more from the dwarf priest in the next book.

Hadn't thought about it, but it makes sense. I kinda had the idea that he would go off in search of his first love which would put him in the area(if my mental map is correct)

[Odin]

Hadn't thought about it, but it makes sense. I kinda had the idea that he would go off in search of his first love which would put him in the area(if my mental map is correct)

If they were specific about where Tysha was from, I missed it - I just supposed she was from somewhere near Casterly Rock/Lannisport. Wasn't the monastery partway between Maidenpool and Saltpans? That's way far East from the Lannister holdings.

SIth

[Remus West]

Hadn't thought about it, but it makes sense. I kinda had the idea that he would go off in search of his first love which would put him in the area(if my mental map is correct)

If they were specific about where Tysha was from, I missed it - I just supposed she was from somewhere near Casterly Rock/Lannisport. Wasn't the monastery partway between Maidenpool and Saltpans? That's way far East from the Lannister holdings.

SIth

She was from around Casterly Rock I think. Didn't he meet her when Jamie and he were out riding? I thought Briene met the dwarf priest before reaching the first town she went to, but now I'm all confused will have to check the book when I get home.

[Odin]

She was from around Casterly Rock I think. Didn't he meet her when Jamie and he were out riding? I thought Briene met the dwarf priest before reaching the first town she went to, but now I'm all confused will have to check the book when I get home.

I'm a little vague on where exactly she met the dwarf priest (I actually paid him no mind on the first reading and it never occurred to me that it might be Tyrion, any more than the idea that the large man at the monastery might be Sandor. I'll pay more attention on my second read-through via audiobook), but her course was from King's Landing through Rosby to Duskendale, to Maidenpool, east (I think) to the old abandoned castle where she kills the Bloody Mummers, then back to Maidenpoole, and northeast to the monastery and Saltpans on the coast. This is where Arya left from, and she said she wanted to take sail to Eastwatch, which would put her on the East coast of Westeros. In other words, not only did Brienne never get near the Lannister territories, but remember that unless she took a very southerly route, she'd need to pass through the seige at Riverrun to get there from Maidenpool.

At least, that's how I read it. The map's not nearly detailed enough for my liking, so I often had to guess whereabouts she was.

Sith

[Kelric]

She was from around Casterly Rock I think. Didn't he meet her when Jamie and he were out riding? I thought Briene met the dwarf priest before reaching the first town she went to, but now I'm all confused will have to check the book when I get home.

I'm a little vague on where exactly she met the dwarf priest (I actually paid him no mind on the first reading and it never occurred to me that it might be Tyrion, any more than the idea that the large man at the monastery might be Sandor. I'll pay more attention on my second read-through via audiobook), but her course was from King's Landing through Rosby to Duskendale, to Maidenpool, east (I think) to the old abandoned castle where she kills the Bloody Mummers, then back to Maidenpoole, and northeast to the monastery and Saltpans on the coast. This is where Arya left from, and she said she wanted to take sail to Eastwatch, which would put her on the East coast of Westeros. In other words, not only did Brienne never get near the Lannister territories, but remember that unless she took a very southerly route, she'd need to pass through the seige at Riverrun to get there from Maidenpool.

At least, that's how I read it. The map's not nearly detailed enough for my liking, so I often had to guess whereabouts she was.

Sith

You're pretty much right on all geographic locations there.

[Odin]

You're pretty much right on all geographic locations there.

Yay for my memory!

[wire]

I really wish all the locations mentioned in the book were actually on the map. GRRM writes pretty detailed descriptions of the various wanderings of the main characters but you can't actually follow them on the map. Where is Maidenpool exactly? Saltpans isn't actually listed on the map but I was able to figure it out finally from the description of the river meeting the ocean.

[Zaxxon]

You're pretty much right on all geographic locations there.

Yay for my memory!

You guys freak me out.

[Kelric]

You're pretty much right on all geographic locations there.

Yay for my memory!

You guys freak me out.

I've read the first three books maybe half a dozen times in a little more than three years and am on my second reading of AFfC. I was looking at the map last night trying to figure out various locations again.

[Remus West]

anyone know of a site that has an map on it. This is driving me nuts and I want to look at the friggin thing.

[Odin]

anyone know of a site that has an map on it. This is driving me nuts and I want to look at the friggin thing.

I started looking, but I stumbled across some sites posting e-mail responses to readers' questions by GRRM and I've been buried in that ever since.

Sith

[Sherpa]

anyone know of a site that has an map on it. This is driving me nuts and I want to look at the friggin thing.

Some maps here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Images/Images01.html

[Remus West]

anyone know of a site that has an map on it. This is driving me nuts and I want to look at the friggin thing.

Some maps here: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Images/Images01.html

For some reason that site comes up all broken up on this machine. Will have to check it out when I get home as sometimes this network screws sites up badly.

[Odin]

It's amazing how, even with those detailed maps, there are still missing items like Castamere and Darry, for instance, and Mole Town.

Martin's world is just so detailed.

Sith

[Kelric]

It's amazing how, even with those detailed maps, there are still missing items like Castamere and Darry, for instance, and Mole Town.

Martin's world is just so detailed.

Sith

Well, just stick Mole Town about an hour or two away from Castle Black. Darry and Castamere are just ruins, so they aren't terribly important. There are a lot of places missing in the north. Where are the Cerwyns (sp?) from, for instance?

[spoiler]The boy that gets killed with the Castellan of Winterfell when trying to take the castle back from Theon.[/spoiler]

The Brackens and Blackwoods from the Trident? Etc., etc., etc. There's just way too many people mentioned to be able to get them all in there.

[SuperHiro]

I just don't think that priest is Tyrion. Tyrion is supposed to be across the ocean by now. I can see why one would think that, but it's just not happening IMO.

[Odin]

Tyrion is supposed to be across the ocean by now.

Says who? Hanging around Westeros wasn't Varys's plan, but then neither was killing Tywin. All we know is that Tyrion killed Shae and Tywin and then left the room.

Sith

[SuperHiro]

Tyrion is supposed to be across the ocean by now.

Says who? Hanging around Westeros wasn't Varys's plan, but then neither was killing Tywin. All we know is that Tyrion killed Shae and Tywin and then left the room.

Sith

Because I've read the spoiler chapters. I suppose he'll need to get across the ocean at some point.

[spoiler]But considering that Tyrion is talking with Illyrio, it's likely Varys helped him get on that ship. hence, I think he left via Kings Landing[/spoiler]

I just don't think it's him. It's a little too Stupid-Mission-Impossible-Plot-Twist. Aha! It's just a super awesome disguise. And if it is him, wtf is up with the Dog? and how would Tyrion know exactly where to walk around the bog?

[Remus West]

Tyrion is supposed to be across the ocean by now.

Says who? Hanging around Westeros wasn't Varys's plan, but then neither was killing Tywin. All we know is that Tyrion killed Shae and Tywin and then left the room.

Sith

Because I've read the spoiler chapters. I suppose he'll need to get across the ocean at some point.

[spoiler]But considering that Tyrion is talking with Illyrio, it's likely Varys helped him get on that ship. hence, I think he left via Kings Landing[/spoiler]

I just don't think it's him. It's a little too Stupid-Mission-Impossible-Plot-Twist. Aha! It's just a super awesome disguise. And if it is him, wtf is up with the Dog? and how would Tyrion know exactly where to walk around the bog?

I don't think we are talking about the same character. The priest who led Briene around was not the dwarf priest. Was it? Crap, now I'm more confused. Damn my steel sieveish memory.

[Kelric]

Tyrion is supposed to be across the ocean by now.

Says who? Hanging around Westeros wasn't Varys's plan, but then neither was killing Tywin. All we know is that Tyrion killed Shae and Tywin and then left the room.

Sith

Because I've read the spoiler chapters. I suppose he'll need to get across the ocean at some point.

[spoiler]But considering that Tyrion is talking with Illyrio, it's likely Varys helped him get on that ship. hence, I think he left via Kings Landing[/spoiler]

I just don't think it's him. It's a little too Stupid-Mission-Impossible-Plot-Twist. Aha! It's just a super awesome disguise. And if it is him, wtf is up with the Dog? and how would Tyrion know exactly where to walk around the bog?

I don't think we are talking about the same character. The priest who led Briene around was not the dwarf priest. Was it? Crap, now I'm more confused. Damn my steel sieveish memory.

If it supposedly is, then that definitely is not Tyrion. First off, they don't have contact lenses in this world. Second, I don't think that guy is a dwarf. Still, I'll be reaching that chapter sometime soon....

[LawBeefaroni]

I just don't think it's him. It's a little too Stupid-Mission-Impossible-Plot-Twist. Aha! It's just a super awesome disguise. And if it is him, wtf is up with the Dog? and how would Tyrion know exactly where to walk around the bog?

It's not. He was recognized by the villages in every little crap village they arrived in. He's been making the rounds for what, 20+ years? He guides them unerringly through broken trails. It's not the Imp.

[spoiler]Oh, and since I missed the discussion earlier, Brienne's final word is "Jamie." Loras is gay gay gay. His relationship with Renly is rumor but he is clearly gay. Arya's blindness is part of training. Whether it is permanent or not, I don't know, but she is stubbornly refusing to "forget." Also IIRC there was an acolyte in the temple who was blind and who had the job of lighting the candles. She might have that job next. I also see some crow dreams in her future, like Bran's. The crow and Nymeria. [/spoiler]

[Odin]

It's not. He was recognized by the villages in every little crap village they arrived in. He's been making the rounds for what, 20+ years? He guides them unerringly through broken trails. It's not the Imp.

[spoiler]Oh, and since I missed the discussion earlier, Brienne's final word is "Jamie." Loras is gay gay gay. His relationship with Renly is rumor but he is clearly gay. Arya's blindness is part of training. Whether it is permanent or not, I don't know, but she is stubbornly refusing to "forget." Also IIRC there was an acolyte in the temple who was blind and who had the job of lighting the candles. She might have that job next. I also see some crow dreams in her future, like Bran's. The crow and Nymeria. [/spoiler]

Oh, THAT guy? Was he even a dwarf? I thought there must be some other dwarf I'd forgotten about. THAT guy was clearly NOT Tyrion, for exactly the reasons Lawbeef mentions.

As to the spoiler part - how do you know?

Sith

[Remus West]

Wasn't there a dwarf priest well before that guy though?

[LawBeefaroni]

Wasn't there a dwarf priest well before that guy though?

Well, that's who I thought of when we're talking about a priest and companion to Brienne.

As to the spoiler part - how do you know?

Brienne, I'm guessing.
Loras' status is well known and commented on liberally in all the books.
Arya, I'm guessing too.

Since it's fiction that has yet to be written I just state guesses as matter of fact.

[Remus West]

Home now so I can check the book. The dwarf priest that I thought we were talking about is the one she meets in the Seven Swords tavern in Duskendale.

added: Martin describe sthis dwarf's nose as "veined and bulbous" I remember something being said about Tyrion's nose, but not what. Anyone remember the description?

[LawBeefaroni]

Home now so I can check the book. The dwarf priest that I thought we were talking about is the one she meets in the Seven Swords tavern in Duskendale.

added: Martin describe sthis dwarf's nose as "veined and bulbous" I remember something being said about Tyrion's nose, but not what. Anyone remember the description?

No, but Tyrion's nose was cut off, wasn't it? At the very least it's broken and disfigured.

[Kelric]

Home now so I can check the book. The dwarf priest that I thought we were talking about is the one she meets in the Seven Swords tavern in Duskendale.

added: Martin describe sthis dwarf's nose as "veined and bulbous" I remember something being said about Tyrion's nose, but not what. Anyone remember the description?

No, but Tyrion's nose was cut off, wasn't it? At the very least it's broken and disfigured.

Most of it was cut off, yeah.

And it's very clearly hinted at over and over and over (is that even still hinting?) that Renly and Loras had a thing for each other and that Renly at least was pretty well known to prefer men.

[Odin]

As to the spoiler part - how do you know?

Brienne, I'm guessing.

Ah, gotcha. I'm going with "Arya."

Loras' status is well known and commented on liberally in all the books.

Yeah, I wasn't really asking about this part, though given that your statement quoted here is accurate, I wonder why you chose to document it as if it were some sort of revelation.

Arya, I'm guessing too.

Gotcha

Since it's fiction that has yet to be written I just state guesses as matter of fact.

Well, since it isn't being written BY YOU, that's a somewhat irritating habit.

Sith

[Odin]

Home now so I can check the book. The dwarf priest that I thought we were talking about is the one she meets in the Seven Swords tavern in Duskendale.

added: Martin describe sthis dwarf's nose as "veined and bulbous" I remember something being said about Tyrion's nose, but not what. Anyone remember the description?

Tyrion narrowly avoided having his head split in half by a sword on the Blackwater. He has a massive purple scar across his face, and most of his nose is missing. There's no way Tyrion could fool anybody without wearing a mask, and even then his different-colored eyes (and being a dwarf) would give him away. Certainly he can't hide in plain sight as a priest with every fortune-seeker in the realm bringing the head of anything remotely dwarf-like to Cersei in a sack.

And it's very clearly hinted at over and over and over (is that even still hinting?) that Renly and Loras had a thing for each other and that Renly at least was pretty well known to prefer men.

Martin has confirmed their sexual orientation. Renly and Loras were definitely... fashionable.

Sith

[Montag]

I thought that the short priest with his ugly rock hard feet was the guy that became the high septon. Am I way out in left field?

[Remus West]

I thought that the short priest with his ugly rock hard feet was the guy that became the high septon. Am I way out in left field?

I think that the High Septon was already "chosen" when Brienne met the priest who led her through the bogs.

[slackerjoe]

I figured it out!!! The dwarf priest in the inn is NOT TYRION! (my bad)

It is the dwarf whose head is presented to Cersei a few chapters later! I knew he looked familiar.

[SuperHiro]

I thought that the short priest with his ugly rock hard feet was the guy that became the high septon. Am I way out in left field?

I think that the High Septon was already "chosen" when Brienne met the priest who led her through the bogs.

Yeah, the new High Septon was the leader of the Sparrows apparantly.

[Remus West]

Anyone else notice the sudden profusion of dwarves in the book.

The first made it seem like they killed all deformed children. Now there seems to be a dwarf for everyone to off and hand to Cersei or confuse for Tyrion.