On Buffy & Angel

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What's next for El Guapo?

Buffy Season 6
9
33%
Buffy Season 7
0
No votes
Angel Season 1
16
59%
Angel season 2+
0
No votes
Other (explain)
2
7%
 
Total votes: 27

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El Guapo
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On Buffy & Angel

Post by El Guapo »

So I've gotten through Buffy seasons 1-5 on DVD, as well as Firefly. I'm contemplating picking up Season 6 to watch through, but I've heard bad things about it. Both it and season 7, actually, though I've liked the random season 7 episodes that I've seen thus far on TV.

Meanwhile, I'm also eyeing the Angel DVDs. I've heard people rave about Angel, but the couple episodes that I've happened to catch have been pretty bad. The only one I remember is where Angel has to get some weird glove to fight a demon, and once he has it he simply grabs the guy by the throat and he dies. Awfully lame episode, and the descriptions don't sound too appealing. Still, some people swear by it.

So, what should I do? Pick up Buffy Season 6? Skip straight to 7? Or should I get Angel? If so, start with season 1, or is it bad and should I skip to a later season? Or should I just pick up Battlestar Galactica?

Any and all insights are appreciated.
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Post by Padre »

I'd start watching Angel now. It has good episodes and not so good ones, but overall there's just too much not to love.

Not to disparage Buffy season 6 though, I actually like it a lot.

Then again, I'm a total Buffy/Angel fanboy, so..
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Post by ChaoZ »

Padre wrote:I'd start watching Angel now. It has good episodes and not so good ones, but overall there's just too much not to love.

Not to disparage Buffy season 6 though, I actually like it a lot.

Then again, I'm a total Buffy/Angel fanboy, so..
Watch Angel season 1, not brilliant, but it's necessary to lead into the great season 2 and 3 (and eventually to the not-so-brilliant, 4 and the mindblowing 5)
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Post by Jiffy »

Might as well start in on Angel. Season one was...inconsistent I found, but it had some excellent episodes (my favorite two of the season were back to back).

As for Buffy Season 6, in a word I would describe it as...Brutal. Not as a bad show, but it utterly beats the poor viewer. Some great shows in there though, and overall a very good season, but not one I would watch again right away. (You MUST see it, if for just the musical episode. Amazingly great episode)

Season 7 was weaker, but of course, you made it this far, you might as well finish it off. :)
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Post by Tscott »

Short answer- since you've been watching Buffy straight through so far, you might as well finish it out. Then start from the beginning of Angel.

People online seem to love to tear apart Buffy season 6 (and it does have some faults) but there's a lot worth watching in that season, and some great moments. I think some of the faults are also lessened by watching it over a short period of time on DVD rather than needing to wait a week or more for the next new episode like Buffy fans who watched it as it aired had to do. I'd say keep at it and pick up season 6 next.

I don't want to scare you away from 7, though IMO it's the weakest season since the first season of Buffy. There's still some great episodes to be found and like season 6, it benefits from watching several episodes in a row on DVD rather than waiting week by week. It's also the season that wraps the show up so if you've got that far you might as well finish it up.

As for Angel, I highly recommend watching this if you've liked Buffy at all so far. The first season is likely the weakest. Mostly monster of the week stuff, but it does offer a few nice surprises and sets things up for the rest of the show. Seasons after have more of an arc that run from episode to episode and are likely to make for highly compulsive marathon DVD viewing. Don't miss out- IMO Angel keeps getting better and better as it goes along.
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Post by Hamlet3145 »

Basically, season 6 is just way different in tone from the previous seasons. It is much, much darker. And Buffy really loses herself in a number of ways.

That said, I thought it was great as a departure. And one episode in particular gets the award for "most violent sex scene ever aired on network TV."

Now that I think about it, there were a number of sexually charged moments when I said to myself, "They didn't just do that did they?"
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Post by Hell's Taco »

Definitely watch Angel Season 1, but take it as you took Buffy Season 1. In my experience Joss Whedon takes a bit of time to get all the writers on the same page and moving in the same direction (which only pisses me off more when I think about Firefly and what could have been, grrrrr :evil: ) In my opinion the best season of Angel is equal to the best season of Buffy (Angel 5 = Buffy 3).

And although Buffy has the edge as an overall better show (IMO, lets not get that debate started), Angel has the single greatest, series long, total character transformation of...

*NOTASPOILER*(anyone who has seen the series knows which character I'm talking about :P )*NOTASPOILER*

But
Padre wrote:Then again, I'm a total Buffy/Angel fanboy, so..
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Post by gameoverman »

Start on Angel, it'll grow on you. In fact, as a series, Angel builds and builds to a peak, where it ends at the top of its game. The last seasons of Buffy can wait till after you finish Angel, cause then you'll know if you need more Whedonverse or not. If you do, the last of Buffy will be worth it.
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Post by Blackhawk »

Buffy season 6 wasn't nearly as bad as season 4 was. It has some genuinely amazing episodes in it (including the musical!). It helps set the stage for season 7, plus it explains a few later-on Angel tie-ins. There are some stretches that are mediocre, but it also has some of the best moments in the series in it.

When you're done with 6 & 7, then turn to Angel. It sounds like you've managed to catch a couple of bad episodes. I mean, imagine if you'd only caught one episode of Buffy, and it was 'Beer Bad'!
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Post by godhugh »

I'm a pretty big fan of both shows and I won't hesitate to say the Buffy Season 7 is the single worst season of either show. The extra characters are horrid and the over-arching story is fairly bad. We bought it to complete our collection, but I don't think we've ever even opened it.
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Post by Hell's Taco »

Blackhawk wrote:When you're done with 6 & 7, then turn to Angel. It sounds like you've managed to catch a couple of bad episodes. I mean, imagine if you'd only caught one episode of Buffy, and it was 'Beer Bad'!
I actually didn't mind "Beer Bad." Of course, I was disturbingly attracted to neanderthal Buffy. She seemed exceptionally horny and easy. Just imagine the squeezing she could give you with that prehistoric slayer strength and muscle control.


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Post by Pharaoh »

What season has the "Evil Willow" storyarc?

Angel has good and bad points, but like someone mentioned above, man that last season is stellar, its worth hanging around during some of the cheese in Season 4!
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Post by Blackhawk »

Pharaoh wrote:What season has the "Evil Willow" storyarc?
6
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Post by Pharaoh »

6
Well there ya go. That scene is worth the entire run!

Well, that and Hush is probally the best hour of horror/comedy/etc on TV in the past 20 years!
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Post by tiny ogre »

Other (explain)
should I just pick up Battlestar Galactica?
Consider it explained!
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Post by Tscott »

Grrrr, please put that in spoilers since the thread starter hasn't seen season 6 yet. :evil:
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Post by El Guapo »

Pharaoh wrote:
6
Well there ya go. That scene is worth the entire run!

Well, that and Hush is probally the best hour of horror/comedy/etc on TV in the past 20 years!
Hush is actually season 4. Great episode.

But ugh, man season 4 had some really bad moments. It had some good points - some of the initiative stuff was good, but the first four episodes - Buffy 90210.

I think I will check out season 6 next. I think I'd want to take a break from Whedon before committing to 5 seasons of Angel, especially if the first season is mediocre - I'd probably get discouraged.
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Post by El Guapo »

Tscott wrote:Grrrr, please put that in spoilers since the thread starter hasn't seen season 6 yet. :evil:
Thanks, but I do actually know about evil willow already, just from previous general buffy discussion.
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Post by Suitably Ironic Moniker »

ChaoZ wrote:
Padre wrote:I'd start watching Angel now. It has good episodes and not so good ones, but overall there's just too much not to love.

Not to disparage Buffy season 6 though, I actually like it a lot.

Then again, I'm a total Buffy/Angel fanboy, so..
Watch Angel season 1, not brilliant, but it's necessary to lead into the great season 2 and 3 (and eventually to the not-so-brilliant, 4 and the mindblowing 5)
I'm always surprised when people badmouth Season 4. It was the one season of Angel that I thought had a great story and acting from beginning to end. Different strokes and all that...
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Post by Asharak »

Suitably Ironic Moniker wrote:I'm always surprised when people badmouth Season 4. It was the one season of Angel that I thought had a great story and acting from beginning to end. Different strokes and all that...
It had Alexa Davalos, too, which can never hurt (Gwen Raiden, probably only remembered as "the electric girl".

Oh, and Season 6 of Buffy is one of it's much better seasons, IMHO. As others have already stated, it gets a lot of bad press because it's very different from the earlier seasons - and people were quite surprised by that. But provided you know that going in, it shouldn't be too big an issue.

And you get the musical episode, which is phenomenal.

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Post by GuidoTKP »

Get Season 1 of Angel. Not the greatest, but starts you on the really amazing story arcs of Cordy and Wesley and how those characters change over time (Wes was bad ass mo-fo by Season 4 of Angel). Lots of great dialogue in every season of Angel. Seasons 1&2 of Angel were probably better than Seasons 6&7 of Buffy (mostly because Season 7 of Buffy was maybe its worst, although, still enjoyable).
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Post by Freezer-TPF- »

First, just to get it out of the way -- you should eventually watch all of Buffy and Angel. Buffy S6 has some weak points but several high points, and S7 still has some good episodes even if it is even weaker overall.

I'd take a break from Buffy and dig into the first 2 seasons of Angel. That will bring you to the same point in both shows time-wise. Then you can reassess. I'd probably just alternate and go to Buffy 6, Angel 3, Buffy 7, then Angel 4 and 5, or however you want to do it. There are some light crossover moments here and there, but the only thing I'd really keep in mind is that you should finish Buffy 7 completely before watching Angel 5.
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Post by ChaoZ »

Everything is relative.

I watched season 1 through 4 on DVD and season 4 just didn't grab like the first three did. The first half, as I recall, was still enjoyable, but to me, the last two or three episodes was akin to pulling teeth (I actually fell asleep watching one of the episodes, and it wasn't even late at night).

It could also be because
Spoiler:
I hate Connor and everything related to him. Even Gina Torres irked me. Even the Wes arc never sat right with me. Oh, and evil Cordelia? What?
... and that's basically all the elements (that I can recall) of season 4.

That said, I prefer watching any season of Angel to most shows on TV today.
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Post by Jiffy »

Pretty general spoiler about Wes:
Spoiler:
Out of all the characters in the Buffy/Angel universe, I couldn't think of anyone that had a worse time in life than poor Wes. And I really liked him once he came to Angel. But geez, the bad luck the guy has.
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Post by JonathanStrange »

I would vote for watching Angel Seasons 1 and Seasons 2 over the final two seasons of Buffy (although they should be watched eventually) mostly because I feel the joy of Buffy was rapidly departing and although there were good episodes and moments left, the humor and optimism were giving way more and more to a gritty reality. Yes, I know it was intentional but I think that there was also far more unintended dreariness in the actors performances as though they either didn't want to be there or were only there for the paycheck - just my opinion.

Angel (as lame as many of the first season's episodes were) has the advantage that it got better as time went on and although it was from the start more "world weary" that Buffy, it also felt more optimistic in that the characters knew they had a job to do and believed they could make a difference.

One show was dragging itself to the finish line and the other was just starting its engines.
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Post by El Guapo »

Interesting. Big support for Angel - though actually, I really like dark shows - I really liked Buffy season 2, probably more than season 3, though season 2 was pretty dark.
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Post by Malificent »

I liked Buffy season 6 but I felt that seasons 6 and 7 both had the same problem - they meandered quite a bit until late in the season, and then in the last few episodes exploded in terms of plot, excitement, etc etc. The pacing was off.

Angel definitely gets stronger as it goes along, especially if you ignore Season 4...:) Its worth watching Season 1 JUST for the episode where Spike does the intro - that's worth the cost of the DVD by itself. And regardless of whether I liked Angel Season 4, Angel Season 5 totally kicked ass so make your way towards it at high speed. :)
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Post by Freezer-TPF- »

Malificent wrote:Angel definitely gets stronger as it goes along, especially if you ignore Season 4...:) Its worth watching Season 1 JUST for the episode where Spike does the intro - that's worth the cost of the DVD by itself.
Spike rules. And that intro is gold.
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Zaxxon »

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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Skinypupy »

I still have a hard time listening to James Marsters speak without his British accent.
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Kraken »

Angel doesn't feel 20 years old because I was late to the Buffyverse. Several years ago we binge-watched Buffy DVDs, then starting in S4 (?) we interweaved Angel discs so that they synched up with when both shows had actually run, watching them in parallel. I liked how characters and storylines leaked from one into the other, although mostly one-way. By the time we got to the last disc, after hundreds of episodes, I was a huge Joss Whedon fan.

Never saw Dollhouse, though. Is it in the same league?
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Blackhawk »

Kraken wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:15 am

Never saw Dollhouse, though. Is it in the same league?
In my opinion? No. It was good, and it had its moments. It had lots of Buffy actors, too. But it never really clicked with me. If you haven't seen them, though, check out Firefly and Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Blackhawk »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:18 pm This just in: we're all very old.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/06/20/angel-reun ... niversary/

Top picture. I see Wes, Fred, Spike, Gunn, Angel, Cordelia. Who's the guy on the right? Red shirt, black jacket?
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Hrothgar »

Since it's clearly not Weedon, I'm going with David Greenwalt, writer, producer, co-creator of Angel.
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by AWS260 »

Hrothgar wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:34 am Since it's clearly not Weedon, I'm going with David Greenwalt, writer, producer, co-creator of Angel.

Yes.
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

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Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:40 am
Kraken wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:15 am Never saw Dollhouse, though. Is it in the same league?
In my opinion? No. It was good, and it had its moments. It had lots of Buffy actors, too. But it never really clicked with me. If you haven't seen them, though, check out Firefly and Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.
Clicked for me, for whatever that is worth. :wink:
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Kraken »

MonkeyFinger wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:39 am
Blackhawk wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:40 am
Kraken wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:15 am Never saw Dollhouse, though. Is it in the same league?
In my opinion? No. It was good, and it had its moments. It had lots of Buffy actors, too. But it never really clicked with me. If you haven't seen them, though, check out Firefly and Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog.
Clicked for me, for whatever that is worth. :wink:
Maybe I'll watch Dollhouse someday, since it's just two short seasons. I've seen nearly everything else Whedon has created; nothing surpasses Buffy, IMO, although Firefly came close.
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Zaxxon »

I liked Dollhouse. I just wouldn't put it at the same level as Firefly/Buffy/Angel. And that's probably in large part to it never really having gotten the chance to gel.
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Re: On Buffy & Angel

Post by Blackhawk »

I'd agree with that. The theme also never quite appealed to me, but it was still worth watching.
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