Solar Power. Talk to me.

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em2nought
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by em2nought »

The Meal wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:01 pm Don't do solar next to a golf course.

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If that were to happen to solar shingles I wonder if you'd end up with a leaking roof?
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The Meal
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Formix wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:39 am Nice Meal! Also, I see Silfab and Enphase on a lot of your designs. G3 went with all solaredge, and optimizers instead of microinverters. I know a lot of you have done extensive research, and I'm wondering if anyone found out anything bad about Solaredge or going the optimizer route. I haven't found anything noteworthy, or substantially different about this route that would cause concern.
Here's a recent /r/solar thread on Solaredge vs. Enphase (optimizers vs. microinverters):


(The net is that folks have opinions either way.)
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Isgrimnur »

Given the deregulated, competitive power company environment in Texas, I signed a contract with Chariot Energy, which is 100% solar generated.

Yahoo Finance, June 20, 2019
174 Power Global Corporation (“174 Power Global”) today announced that it broke ground on the $200 million Oberon Solar Power Facility (“Oberon”) in Ector County, Texas. In addition to expanding its solar generation investments, 174 Power Global also announced the launch of a new retail affiliate, Chariot Energy, to facilitate the delivery of affordable, clean energy to customers across Texas.
...
Additionally, Chariot Energy, a subsidiary of 174 Power Global, commenced operations this week, offering simple, transparent and reliable solar electricity products to consumers and businesses in the Texas market. The Public Utility Commission of Texas granted Chariot Energy its Option 1 Texas retail electric provider certificate in March and authority to use the trade name Chariot Energy in May.
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ZOT!

Post by The Meal »

7/2 Signed up
8/9 Received design
8/30 Design approved by local authorities and power company
9/5 Installation complete
9/9 Local inspection passed
9/12 Powered on and generating
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Isgrimnur »

Congrats! :happy-sunny: :happy-sunshine: :scared-shocked:
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And we're off...

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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Formix »

I just signed on the dotted line for a 16.2kW system. Now the waiting begins.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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That's a whopper! Congrats!!
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Formix »

Thanks Meal. I was a little leery since the calcs that I ran came in closer to 14kW, but I figure having more, while pricey, may help generate more $$ sooner to offset costs. Apparently we use way too much energy in this house. I blame the kids, not my gaming rig.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by em2nought »

So this is kind of interesting in a bureaucracy avoidance kind of way. :mrgreen:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pl ... BiggerCake
Legion Solar 4 - Permission Free Energy and Storage
Plug and Play Solar with Artificial Intelligence (AI) for 3x Faster ROI.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Enough »

Hello photon-harvesting friends! So we recently bought a new home in a non-incorporated city that apparently has very flakey power. We both have long been wanting solar and didn't think we would have the bandwidth to do this year with buying a new house, selling our old one all while the rebates were still cranking. However, we are now thinking of cannibalizing some of the money we saved for the kitchen renovation and delaying that project as my wife really needs reliable power for her at home job and I of course would prefer it as well. Are we crazy for thinking we could get a good system still installed in time to take advantage of the 30% rebate? We're just north of Fort Collins and I have identified a few potential contractors and would really appreciate any sage wisdom, suggestions for contractors, systems, etc. IE, talk to me about solar!
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by The Meal »

We signed on the line with Ion Solar on 7/2 and were turned on for full production on 9/12. Some of that is local authorities (Firestone, CO in Weld County) and some of that is our power cooperative (United Power). Seems you're in the possibility zone.

I think we have some sort of incentive to convince folks to go with Ion. LMK if you want to set up an on-site meeting using us as a reference.

[edit:]
We didn't talk to Photon Brothers, but have also heard good things about them. Lots of Boulder friends went with Namaste, but our friends in Coal Creek Canyon just had a horrific experience trying to get them to show up for the install (i.e., "We'll be there on [this date in May]," yet still haven't shown up even though they've set up multiple other "we'll be there" dates.). Apex gave us the best modeling for what our capabilities were (using LIDAR and drone data, not just the stuff available from NREL on their website), and were our clear second choice (they also offered more home-improvement incentives such as swapping out light bulbs and spraying insulation into our attic). Ultimately went with Ion because we wanted specific panels and microinverters. Gilraen and The Mix used Sunrun and have an overwhelmingly positive story to tell.

[edit2:]
Sizing your system for a home you're newly moving into (congrats!) is tricky. I'm fearful that we undersized our installation because of our new home situation. By statute, they're allowed to size your system up to 120% of your consumption, but if you don't have a full years' worth of data then you get into the fudge zone. We didn't install our hot tub until a few months after we moved into our new place, but I fear our system was sized to our pre-hot tub consumption. It's not ideal, but whatchugonnado? Wait?!?
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by stessier »

The Meal wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:47 pm By statute, they're allowed to size your system up to 120% of your consumption,
Do you know the logic behind the statute? I've always wondered and the only thing I can think of is they don't want people becoming little utilities, but that doesn't make much sense as it would really help the system if they were.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Somehow I missed updates to this thread for over a month.

1) Congrats, Meal & MHS. Awesome system and timeline.
2) Welcome, Formix. Hopefully your wait is not long.
3) Go for it, Enough! You should have no problem getting a system installed by the end of the year. Power-on may be another story, but I believe for purposes of the tax credit all that matters is that the install is done this year.

As for my own situation, it's been a lot of nothing lately:

8/5: signed contract with Tesla for my 2nd system (4.7 kW, Solaredge optimizers. My existing system is 4.2 kW Enphase micros, installed by Golden Solar in 2014).
8/27: Tesla install completed.
9/5: County inspection completed.
10/8: Still waiting on friggin' Xcel Energy to complete their 5-minute production meter install and grant permission to operate.

Apparently Xcel didn't give final acceptance of all our documents until 9/12, so that's when they say their 30-day window opened to get the production meter installed. Unfortunately Xcel is an impenetrable machine beyond this. I've called weekly, and no one is able to give any further update other than that they have 30 days and it'll show up when it shows up.

Annoying, but at least I should be close now.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

To tag onto my other post, but this time to focus on the 'flakey' power situation. A standard grid-tied solar PV system won't help you there, as grid-tied solar without battery backup is required to shut down when the grid is down (so as not to backflow onto the grid operators trying to fix whatever problem caused the outage). If you want to actually protect yourself from an outage, you'd want to get battery storage, as well. This will unfortunately raise the cost significantly, however storage installed with a solar PV system qualifies for the same 30% tax credit as the PV portion of the system.

Were I you, I'd be calling Tesla and getting a Powerwall or two added to my solar design. But there are other options out there that I'm less familiar with. Also, some non-battery-tied PV inverters can provide some small level of power in the event of an outage, generally not to your whole home but rather to one specific outlet or breaker.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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stessier wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:46 pm
The Meal wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:47 pm By statute, they're allowed to size your system up to 120% of your consumption,
Do you know the logic behind the statute? I've always wondered and the only thing I can think of is they don't want people becoming little utilities, but that doesn't make much sense as it would really help the system if they were.
I think it's to put some limit the 30% federal incentive.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

The Meal wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:08 pm
stessier wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:46 pm
The Meal wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:47 pm By statute, they're allowed to size your system up to 120% of your consumption,
Do you know the logic behind the statute? I've always wondered and the only thing I can think of is they don't want people becoming little utilities, but that doesn't make much sense as it would really help the system if they were.
I think it's to put some limit the 30% federal incentive.
I also think there's some concern for the service into/out of homes. The electrical infrastructure to a home is generally designed for 'normal' home power levels. I'm sure there's a lot of wiggle room there to go to 120% and far beyond, but I doubt the power companies want a couple of homes on the block suddenly producing 10x the average home on sunny days.

And there's the potential for rate arbitrage which the power companies probably aren't super-enthused about. It's one thing for me to produce power at the peak rate and consume it at the cheap off-peak rate to charge my car, resulting in a low annual power bill. It's another thing for me to produce 3x my total usage and sell it at peak, netting a chunky cash payout annually from the power company.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Zax, sorry to hear about Xcel's dragging of feet. I had happened to be outside when our net meter was installed and you're not wrong about it being a 5-minute process. I've loved everything about dealing with our energy cooperative, with the exception of their $19/month connection charge. I was very surprised how easy they have been to work with throughout this process, including their turn-around time (in a part of the state not known for its support of non dino-juice energy sources).

Good pick-up on the flakey energy and the grid-tied system not being a perfect remedy. The Tesla Power Walls are expensive solutions to that problem, but they're also the most straight-forward. From my lurking on /r/solar, and there are other battery solutions out there, but nothing as straight forward as the Power Wall. But I've never known Enough to be a mainstream solution sort of guy, so maybe there is a wet-battery or other available solution which would better fit their needs. I have no first-hand experience with either (though my friend in Coal Creek Canyon who's been waiting for his solar installers to show up for the past 5 months is also getting two Solar Walls installed whenever Namaste deigns to install thier system). Unfortunately, you're not wrong about the additional cost, but if that falls under the federal tax incentive now would definitely be the time to make it happen.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Agree with all of that!
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Holy helpful posts batman! Thanks so much!!! A lot to digest, but at this point I am thinking two Tesla Powerwall 2s and a panel lineup maybe similar to Meal but a bit more KWs and maybe a few other tweaks. This seems like a lot of cash, yikes. But I have been given the marital greenlight to obtain estimates! My thinking of a very rough estimate is $36-$45k for a full install and assuming we can get the 30% rebate maybe our net cost comes out closer to $20k?
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Enough wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:59 pm Holy helpful posts batman! Thanks so much!!! A lot to digest, but at this point I am thinking two Tesla Powerwall 2s and a panel lineup maybe similar to Meal but a bit more KWs and maybe a few other tweaks. This seems like a lot of cash, yikes. But I have been given the marital greenlight to obtain estimates! My thinking of a very rough estimate is $36-$45k for a full install and assuming we can get the 30% rebate maybe our net cost comes out closer to $20k?
Speaking only for Tesla as that's all I've got 2019 pricing for, my post-tax credit cost is about $1.65/W. That's for the PV alone, no Powerwalls. Tesla's estimation for Powerwalls is $6500 each plus $1100 (regardless of Powerwall count) for the gateway and other supporting hardware, with some installation costs on top of that. So for two Powerwalls somewhere around $17k before credit. For their 'large' PV system (11.4 kW), $28k before credit. So yes, I would peg your guess at around $45k before credit, all-in, or $31.5k after credit, as pretty accurate. With a medium/7.6 kW system, around $25k after credit.

One Powerwall and a medium system, around $20k post-credit.

It's small potatoes, but if you end up ordering from Tesla, I or another Tesla owner here can get you a whopping $100 off through a referral code (disclosure: the referrer gets the same).

My experience is that Tesla's installed panel pricing in Colorado is pretty tough to beat (my 2014 installer wasn't able to come anywhere near Tesla on the new system), but as Meal pointed out, there may be other cheaper options on the storage side.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Enough »

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:12 pm
Enough wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:59 pm Holy helpful posts batman! Thanks so much!!! A lot to digest, but at this point I am thinking two Tesla Powerwall 2s and a panel lineup maybe similar to Meal but a bit more KWs and maybe a few other tweaks. This seems like a lot of cash, yikes. But I have been given the marital greenlight to obtain estimates! My thinking of a very rough estimate is $36-$45k for a full install and assuming we can get the 30% rebate maybe our net cost comes out closer to $20k?
Speaking only for Tesla as that's all I've got 2019 pricing for, my post-tax credit cost is about $1.65/W. That's for the PV alone, no Powerwalls. Tesla's estimation for Powerwalls is $6500 each plus $1100 (regardless of Powerwall count) for the gateway and other supporting hardware, with some installation costs on top of that. So for two Powerwalls somewhere around $17k before credit. For their 'large' PV system (11.4 kW), $28k before credit. So yes, I would peg your guess at around $45k before credit, all-in, or $31.5k after credit, as pretty accurate. With a medium/7.6 kW system, around $25k after credit.

One Powerwall and a medium system, around $20k post-credit.

It's small potatoes, but if you end up ordering from Tesla, I or another Tesla owner here can get you a whopping $100 off through a referral code (disclosure: the referrer gets the same).

My experience is that Tesla's installed panel pricing in Colorado is pretty tough to beat (my 2014 installer wasn't able to come anywhere near Tesla on the new system), but as Meal pointed out, there may be other cheaper options on the storage side.
Silly question perhaps... I go to the Tesla solar site and they are ready to literally take my order but I don't see any options about getting install quotes, etc. Did you order the Tesla system off their site and then hire a local installer to put it up, or? How do I go about getting a quote for Tesla solar at our home?
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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You place the order and they follow up to do an inspection and customize the quote, etc. It's a little weird the way they word it on the site. The order is refundable if the quote doesn't work out once they inspect.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Zaxxon wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:32 pm You place the order and they follow up to do an inspection and customize the quote, etc. It's a little weird the way they word it on the site. The order is refundable if the quote doesn't work out once they inspect.
So say we want to get a few quotes to compare from different installers... and we pick one besides Tesla. Still refundable? And that price quoted on the site must be for fully installed (estimate prior to inspection) I take it?
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Yes and yes. FWIW, my per-watt price was exactly as quoted on the site. (The # of watts changed slightly after inspection.)
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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Duke power is the worst. I think we've re-submitted the paperwork 6 or 7 times over the past few weeks. Good news, they've finally accepted that we've dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Tesla Solar issues aren't just with commercial customers...


Briana Greer was out of town when the fire started in her Tesla solar roof panels. Luckily, her neighbors in Louisville, Colorado — a town outside Boulder — were vigilant, and they were able to put out the fire before the fire department arrived.

...



All the customers — who were in Arizona, Massachusetts, New York, and Maryland — said they were given little to no explanation of why their panels needed to be serviced. They said they were told to turn off their systems and wait for a crew to come and do maintenance. All of them said they were forced to continue paying Tesla leasing fees, as well as an estimate for power, while their systems were shut off.

...

However, Caron said she was still paying Tesla to lease the panels, as well as an average energy rate that the company calculates. Plus, she has to pay her local electricity provider.

"So my electric bills are not $250 or lower — they have ranged from $400 to $800 for one month because my solar has been shut off, and that is with roughly the same usage as last year and the year before," Caron told Business Insider. "Nobody could give us any answers except to say, 'We are not responsible for the high electric bills that are coming in when the system is off.'"
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

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My installer just rolled out their end-of-30%-benefit incentive program, with a claim that they can still complete installs by the end of 2020:
As you know, solar is amazing! In addition to the environmental impact and the wonderful savings solar provides over time, one of the great benefits of going solar is the 30% Federal Tax Credit. This tax credit is scheduled to decrease at the end of 2019. However, all those who get their solar system installed by the end of 2019 can be eligble for the 30% Federal Tax Credit.

I want to give a special $500 referral bonus for anyone you refer to me that signs up for solar by the end of October. This allows us enough time to get their solar system installed by the end of 2019. In addition, I will also give the person you referred $500 once they get their solar system installed!
I think the typical referral incentive is $200/$200. When you're making a purchase that's going to end up being in the tens of thousands, I'm not sure how much emphasis one should put on $200 or $500, but I'm sure it helps push people over the top in some situations.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Formix »

Still waiting for inspection......first the city/county, then the inevitable around the holiday, we're really not motivated, electric company inspection.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by The Meal »

:angry-screaming: :angry-fire: :angry-cussingwhite: :angry-banghead: :angry-cussing: :angry-steamingears: :angry-teeth:
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Yep.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Formix »

And we're live! Now let the obsessive monitoring begin!
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

Formix wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:09 pm And we're live! Now let the obsessive monitoring begin!
Nice. Unfortunately, at least in my area, this is the 'oh, I produced something? Yay!' time of year.

Update on my 2nd install: after Xcel finally got me my meter installed nearly two months after the system was ready, it became clear that I hit the bad end of the bathtub curb on my SolarEdge inverter. So that had to have a warranty replacement ordered. I should finally be producing later this week when that issue is rectified.

Talk about a frustrating process this time around...
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Formix »

bathtub curb?
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by stessier »

Formix wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:24 pmbathtub curb?
Unless CO is weirder than I've heard, a typo. :) Bathtub curve.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

stessier wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:36 pm
Formix wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:24 pmbathtub curb?
Unless CO is weirder than I've heard, a typo. :) Bathtub curve.
That is indeed what I meant to type; thanks. I will leave the typo in for posterity, as the image of a bathtub curb is mildly entertaining to me.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Formix »

Ah ha! That makes much more sense.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Formix »

So, it looks like I'm putting out a rough average of 30 kWh per day on average since going "live" in December. Not fantastic, but I'll take it. It also looks like I got lucky, and will get some $$ from Duke Power for their yearly scraps from the table for solar installs. Now I'm thinking about upgrading by adding some batteries. Has anyone done that as well, and if so, what were the pros/cons?
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by The Meal »

Niice! It'll get bigger for sure!

We had lots of snow sitting atop our (8.96 kW) system in December and totaled 547 kWh (17.6 kWh per day, peak value of 29.3 kWh on 12/31/19). So far in January (with clear panels every day) we've also generated 546 kWh, with a peak day of 30.9 (yesterday). We only have 2 of our 17 South azimuth panels affected by shade and no shade on our 6 West or 5 East panels; Colorado's also notoriously cloud-free compared to the rest of North America.
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Re: Solar Power. Talk to me.

Post by Zaxxon »

If anyone's on the fence, Tesla just upped their referral to $250 for the buyer and referrer each. I'm happy to donate my end if anyone goes through with it. Need moar PV in the world...

Seems to apply to their rental program as well, if you're in a state where they offer renting.
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