Solar Power. Talk to me.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:13 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
stessier wrote:It's probably not, but that seems like a lot of daily usage. I've only ever paid my bills, not looked at usage. Do you have electric heat?
I dunno what's average. I use about 14,500 kWh of electricity per year (works out to about 40 per day for the year). I don't have electric heat, I don't have electric appliances. I still haven't figured out where the hell it's all going. I used to use a LOT more juice though. My children are professionals at leaving things on.

You put those plastic stopper thingies in all the outlets you're not using, right? If you don't, you're probably losing a fair amount through slow drips.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:20 pm

stessier wrote:You put those plastic stopper thingies in all the outlets you're not using, right? If you don't, you're probably losing a fair amount through slow drips.

What? Slow drips to what?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:21 pm

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:22 pm

I'm all confused. It's the internet - I have no idea what things people believe.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:01 pm

I'd like to be next but not sure if there's going to be any upfront costs. Just bought a house and waiting for the dust to settle. The last parts of summer our electric bill was around $160.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:02 pm

There are options out there (eg SolarCity) that incur no out of pocket costs. Whether those make the most sense for you, I don't know.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:17 pm

Yeah, there are basically three options available to you (maybe four if the new SolarCity option is appreciably different).

1) Buy the system. Most of the money up front or at least the most expensive financing option up front. Most flexibility in managing the subsidies that may be available to you (tax credits, SRECs, etc.). Also the most flexible when you sell your home as they add value directly and the buyer just gets the system free and clear (solid selling point). Aside from the up front costs, as the owner of the system, you have to maintain it.

2) Power Purchase Agreement. This seems to be the most common lease arrangement. This seems to be the simplest option. Basically you let a power company generate electricity on your roof and they sell it to you cheaper than your current power company. Aside from utility workers maintaining equipment on your roof, it's the most like your current situation. Whatever the panels produce that you consume, you pay for.

3) Solar Equipment Lease. You lease the equipment for a fixed monthly payment (substantially lower than loan, but for substantially longer). They own and maintain the equipment. Whatever the panels produce, you get. They also include guaranteed minimums for production and if the panels don't meet them, they pay you to make up the difference. If they produce more than the minimum, you just get it fo' free.

The major downside to 2 and 3 is if you move and the buyer doesn't want to continue the lease. There are options but they aren't optimal. We chose option 3.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:28 pm

so option 3, if the new buyer doesn't want to continue the lease, they either walk away from the house, or I continue to pay it off?

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:17 pm

There are two primary options. If the new buyer wants, you can add the net present value of the lease to the price of the house, and then they can assume all aspects of the lease except the monthly payment.

Or you can take the system with you and install it on your new house.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:24 pm

I'll probably hit you up for a reference next year. Our roof faces E/W but I'm not 100% convinced we would generate enough to make it worth their investment. I mean, with a $120 month electric bill, I'd imagine we could generate enough every month to cover our use, but how much more? I don't know.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:54 pm

Achievement Unlocked!

Received the certificate of completion today from the County, as all inspections have passed. Now we just wait for JCP&L to complete the interconnection and we are all good to go.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:01 pm

In case anyone wonders what a nice short, cloudy day following a snowstorm can do to solar production...

Yesterday:

An average day:

A good day:

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:27 pm

Zaxxon wrote:In case anyone wonders what a nice short, cloudy day following a snowstorm can do to solar production...

Yesterday:

An average day:

A good day:

I'm color blind so all the lines and stuff look the same to me, which is which?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:29 pm

The mountain-looking line is power (momentary output) in Watts, and the shaded section is energy produced in kWh. The other line is the temperature, which for some reason didn't get pulled into yesterday's graph.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:46 pm

i'm not color blind, but my office blogs imgshack or similar photo sharing services

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:58 pm

naednek wrote:i'm not color blind, but my office blogs imgshack or similar photo sharing services

Short version is 25x the power on a sunny day vs a cloudy day.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:59 pm

coopasonic wrote:
naednek wrote:i'm not color blind, but my office blogs imgshack or similar photo sharing services
Short version is 25x the power on a sunny day vs a cloudy day.

Specifically on a cloudy day while the panels are covered in snow. It's nowhere near 25x on a plain-jane cloudy day.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:26 pm

Zaxxon wrote:September's electricity bill - $9.55. I could get used to this.

Oct came in at $31.71. The combo of shortening days and a couple of snowstorms dropped our production quite a bit. Still, this is a drop of about 2/3 from the prior two Octobers.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:44 am

Jackie Chan improves solar cell efficiencies.

The efficiency of a solar cell is influenced by the amount of photons it can absorb. Cells with surfaces that are etched with patterns that are neither too orderly nor too random, a pattern known as quasi-random, trap light more easily.

The fabrication techniques that are required to create such quasi-random patterns for solar cells, however, are very expensive, limiting its widespread use. The researchers looked at the possibility of using Blu-ray discs, which are widely available, as an option to create quasi-random patterns on solar cells at a much cheaper cost.

For their study published in the journal Nature Communications on Nov. 25, Jiaxing Huang from the department of materials science and engineering at the Northwestern University in Illinois and colleagues used Blu-ray discs of Jackie Chan's action flick Police Story 3: Supercop to create a mold with quasi-random patterns that they stamped into the solar cells to transfer the patterns.
...
Huang and colleagues found that the pattern significantly improved the cells' light absorption with the quasi-random patterned panels absorbing 21.8 percent more light compared with the non-patterned panel, boosting power conversion efficiency by almost 12 percent.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:55 pm

The power company is being jack holes. Since they've been informed that I am going solar, they've decided that they are no longer capable of reading my meter.

For the October bill, they estimated the meter and charged me for 1150 kWh. For the November bill, they decided to estimate again and charged me for another 1695 kWh.

I checked the meter. For the two months *combined*, the actual consumption was 890 kWh. They have overcharged me to the tune of about 1900 kWh. Assholes.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:56 pm

Lame.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:27 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Lame.

Yeah. Apparently they just expect me to loan them $230 for the next few months. Angry phone calls will be placed Monday morning. They have finally granted the final permission to operate - but of course, they can't seem to figure out how to get someone out to install the net meter so that any excess generation during the day is credited to me. Apparently in addition to me loaning them money, they are totally cool with getting free electricity from my roof.

Over the same period last year, I consumed 2372 KWH. So I guess reducing that to less than 900 is a good start (as that includes a full month without the solar panels in operation.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:49 pm

Suddenly I appreciate my power company.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:24 pm

They were fairly accommodating this morning, and would be more than happy to return my money. Also, the work order was generated today to swap the meter. So very close to being completely live.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:27 pm

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:39 pm

I feel more like this poor bastard.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:15 pm

On Wed, 12/10 the solar project was finally completed. The net meter has been installed, and we are finally and fully turned on. And the power utility has acknowledged that they have over-charged me by $278. Of course, that will just show up on future bills as a credit until it is exhausted. Like it wasn't on purpose.

Bastards. At least all of my glorious collected photons are now mine to keep.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:22 pm

Awesome; congrats.

Now get your data onto PVOutput so we can make an OO group.

Only 999,998 of you to go. I repeat: who's next?

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:46 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Awesome; congrats. Now get your data onto PVOutput so we can make an OO group.

I have no idea how to do that. You linked me to that before, but I don't have access to that information through the SolarEdge website. It's also been less than 1 day, and I already had to open a customer service ticket to the solar power company because the data from their monitoring portal differs wildly from the data from the inverter monitoring portal. The solar company is alleging that on Nov 3, my panels generated 122 kWh. That's not possible with a 9.9 peak kW system in mid-to-late fall (I imagine).

The inverter reported 42 kWh which seemed far more believable to me.

I would like companies to stop fucking with me.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:49 pm

Yeah, even 42 kWh is a lot for a system that size in Dec. I average about 10 right now on my 4.2 kW system.

You would need the api key from your installer. I think they have to get it for you, but that should take them about 53 seconds.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:16 pm

Well, even if I can't get the live data in there, I can always load the previous month's data on the first of the month. The SolarEdge website spits it out in a CSV file that loads directly into PVOutput. So I have all of the daily data in there now since the system was activated through yesterday.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:34 pm

Join away.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:36 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Join away.

I have tried. There appears to be a delay in me actually appearing (or in my outputs appearing).

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:36 pm

How does one get a weather API key?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:43 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:How does one get a weather API key?

Sign up for a free API key at Weather Underground, then pick an appropriate weather station and enter the station name & API key in your PVOutput settings for your system. I'm not sure how this will work if you're not pulling in live data.

RunningMn9 wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Join away.
I have tried. There appears to be a delay in me actually appearing (or in my outputs appearing).

I see you as a member now.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:09 pm

How do I see me as a member? Is there supposed to be a link or something on my main page?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:14 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:How do I see me as a member? Is there supposed to be a link or something on my main page?

If you open the team page you'll see that it lists only one member (me), but if you look at the daily results there are now 2 outputs listed, reflecting the data you uploaded. I imagine the member count gets updated daily (or something similar). If you click on the 1 Member link, you'll see only me, but the Map has a pin in it for you.

And yes, your main page should have a line that tells you how many people you're following, how many are following you, and your team count. Click that link to see your teams.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:20 pm

Alright, I think I see everything. I have a message in to my installer to give me the SolarEdge info I need so that it can pull live data. Hopefully they get back to me.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:23 pm

Cool.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:47 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Lame.

Over the same period last year, I consumed 2372 KWH. So I guess reducing that to less than 900 is a good start (as that includes a full month without the solar panels in operation.

What did you do to reduce your energy consumption by 62%?