Deadwood

[Kadoth Nodens]

I loved it when Dan read Johnny the riot act about butting in if it looks like things went wrong.

Can't believe I was rooting for Dan given the shit he pulled in season 1. Hell, can't believe I'm rooting for Al, either.

[khomotso]

Ellsworth made sense to me even beyond the fact that he's upset she's back on the laudanum. He's all excited about her finally coming to him, that it wasn't all a vain hope. His distance and resignation starts to melt away.

And then he tastes it on her mouth, and realizes that she had to dope herself up in order to deal with coming to him, and it sends his hopes crashing to a new low. In the first place because of her downfall. And in the second place because their sham of a marriage - and his pathetic clinging - was never more stark to him. The only way we can be intimate is if she's drugged up. The hell with it, I'm done.

[Octavious]

Wooh only one episode of season 2 to watch now. Gona watch that tonight and then catchup on this season. Poor kid.

[Smoove_B]

I knew it was all going to be ok when Al opened the secret cabinet and started talking to the old Chief again.

If someone keeps the decapitated head of an Indian in their office, you just don't fuck with them. That's Business 101.

[McNutt]

So if Al's such a great businessman why hasn't he done something to the Bella Union, or whatever the other saloon is called? That place is making money hand over fist while Al's place is always dead.

[Smoove_B]

So if Al's such a great businessman why hasn't he done something to the Bella Union, or whatever the other saloon is called? That place is making money hand over fist while Al's place is always dead.

I was always under the impression that the Gem Saloon was really more of a business front for Al. Before the Bella Union came in, they were the only joint in town for drinking and gambling, but because Al still pulls money down from the Chinese, the whoring and whatever other extortions he's involved in, losing out on some gambling and alcohol sales isn't that big of a deal.

Remember, Al *was* Deadwood before Cy and Bullock came to town. They might be carving out bits from under him, but he's still pulling the strings - this last episode *clearly* demonstrated that.

[McNutt]

I know he still runs the town, but the drop in business at the Gem still makes a hell of a dent. Why does he not care?

[Smoove_B]

I know he still runs the town, but the drop in business at the Gem still makes a hell of a dent. Why does he not care?

Because he's a pretty smart guy - and he knows there's enough money now (with the new mines) to share. Cy isn't a total chump and his goon squad could make a fight too costly. Additionally, I believe Cy's courting a different crowd than Al - they provide the same service but to different people.

I'm also not too sure what the relationship is between that actor's guild that came to town in last week's episdoe and Al - but there's something going on.

Like others, I can't believe I'm actually liking Al and was pulling for him to win last night's fight. After all the fucked up shit he did during the first 2 seasons, it's pretty amazing they get you to care about him.

I read online what happend to the real Al after Deadwood. I felt a little sad. Fucking hoople-headed cocksucker.

[McNutt]

We root for Tony Soprano even though he's pure scum.

I'm not saying Al should have burned the Bella Union down as Cy is no pushover, but I'm just surprised that they haven't shown Al discussing his saloon being constantly empty. The Bella Union does draw a different crowd, but what happened to the lower-end crowd that the Gem should be getting? Why don't they discuss this?

[Smoove_B]

Well, the only other thing I can think of is that because each show is really a single DAY, perhaps the characters don't really have a sense of "it used to be....".

I think the time between Season 1 and Season 2 was one year. Between 2 and 3 was 6 weeks. Pretty quick, in terms of what you'd normally see on a show.

[EvilHomer3k]

Loved that fight.

[Octavious]

Wooh finished the 2nd season and watched the first episode of the third season. Seth needs an anger management class stat!! Him beating the snot out of EB was classic.

[tjg_marantz]

Keep going! It builds!

[rhinohelix]

A couple of posts by W. Earl Brown, who plays Dan Dority, over at the HBO Deadwood forums:

On "the Fight"

Spoiler:

The Fight
Posted: Jul 10, 2006 4:31 PM (4015 of 4139)

I've been away from a computer for several days, and once I finish typing this, I will be away for several more. So, to answer numerous questions/comments I've read in the past 1/2 hour:

The fight was created by basically five people: Mike Watson (stunt choreographer), Dan Minahan (Director), David Milch, Alan Graf, and me.

Ken Clark was my stunt double, Derrick Graf was Alan's. They were used in the long shots where Hearst/Al were watching from their balconies. In tight shots, they did the roll through the tables where the glass was breaking and they did the back flip over the meat table. Otherwise, it was Alan and I rolling through the muck.

Milch had three parameters for the fight: 1) must be realistic -- "No Cowboy roundhouses, flying through fucking plate glass" 2) the audience must never be allowed to draw their breath, just when they think it is going to ease up, it escalates in intensity. 3) "I want something I've never seen before"

We rehearsed for three days and created the fight. We'd toss in suggestions, try things out. I can't remember who exactly suggested what, other than what I contributed. My suggestions yeilded the facial bite, the mud-drowning and subsequent puking, and the eyeball was a combination of three factors.

The idea was to be as primal as possible. Orginally that had me bashing his head with a oxen yolk. I wanted a stick instead.

I'd written a story arc (not used) that had Dority hitting someone in the forehead so hard that their eyeball popped out (my Grandfather did this to someone once -- it can really happen). We have an advisor on the show who once worked for a Vegas casino interest as an enforcer. His specialty was (if you owed big money and didn't pay) was to gouge an eyeball out with his thumb. David wanted to use the eyeball bit. As we were in the midst of creating the fight, I stumbled across a story. I am a part of a weekly poker game at Jerry Cantrell's (the rock guitarist) house. We were
talking about the eyeball bit when Jerry told me the story of his brother in a fight in a biker bar. His bro was getting his head slammed into the pool table. He was getting tunnel vision as his lights were going out. Merely by chance, as he tried to push his opponent off of him, one of his fingers stuck into the eye of his opponent. Sensing he was about to die, his bro just shoved that finger with all his might. End of fight.

The next day we had fight rehearsal. I told David, "I have an idea about that eyeball..."

So, yes, Dority was dying. He was but a few breaths away from losing permanently. By chance, he got a finger into the Captain's eye. Not one to simply let the gouge be a final move, Dan plucked out the eye. After all, "if an eye offends thee, pluck it out..."

Dan's post-fight response was a combination of many things folks have speculated about on here. Dan almost died -- a new experience. He'd met an opponent who was stronger than him -- that had never happened before. He killed a man eye to eye with whom he had respect for as a warrior. He'd given everything he had to give, physically, spiritually, and emotionally. So as I sat there naked, refusing attention, all those things were going through my mind.

Speaking of nekkid -- that was my idea. The first version David had prepared had me in my muddied clothes. I thought by sitting there completely stripped in every way imaginable, the image could say more than the words. David agreed.

A day or so after we shot, Mark Tinker said he'd seen the dailies and he was going on and on about how emotionally involving the scene was. To show you how commited to authenticity I am, my response, "Yeah, that's cool and all, but did my dick look big?"

Someone questioned the reason for greasing up my groin for the fight. If you've ever had someone grab your nutsack in a tussle then yank on it, you'll know why I greased the boys up.

So... that's the fight. Glad yall liked it. I sure as hell did. I think we pulled off everything the Maestro asked for and more.



Earl

On the cancellation of Deadwood:

It has nothing to do with pregnancies. It has nothing to do with
conservative watchdogs.



It has everything to do with money.

Chris Albrecht, HBO CEO, is in danger of losing his job. The network is
bleeding red ink. His production side lost a ton of money. They sunk
120-million into ROME. They are committed contractually to another
season, plus they have 120 invested already.



On DEADWOOD, they did not get foreign rights. Paramount had a deal with
Milch to work for them. In exchange for them releasing him to HBO, they
got foreign rights to our show. So for three years, HBO has not seen
that money from around the world.



While we are the second biggest show on HBO, we are the 2nd most
expensive to make (half of what ROME costs, mind you). Chris has
shareholders to answer to and is panicked to cut the bottom line. Never
mind the fact, that in 2004 he posted a 1-Billion dollar profit (the
most for ANY network. Ever.) You might've won the Super Bowl last year,
but if you go 0-16 this season, you're looking for another coaching job.



We had been given word of season four. They trumpeted the announcment
of the season to the press in March. Chris, obviously having not been
raised the way I was where a man's word is his bond, reneged on us. He
offered Milch the opportunity to wrap up the series with either a 2
hour movie or an order of six episodes. David refused, feeling that to
conclude with anything short of a full season (which we'd already been
given word of) would demean all the work we'd done prior. I agree.



The shitty part of this is David's Paramount deal is over this year.
Starting with season four, HBO would own the show outright. All world
monies would be theirs. BUT... that doesn't help Chris with the
shareholders today. He is cutting off his nose to spite his face.



Write HBO. Call HBO. Email HBO. It amounts to the bottom line. If the
are overun by subscibers and the threatened cancellations are enough of
an issue to seriously cut into their cash flow, they might change track.



Bottom line matters. CARNIVALE only had a weekly viewership of 2-3
million. SOPRANOS, on the opposite end, has 10-12. DEADWOOD drew 5-6.
ROME has a comparable draw, although their viewership dwindled as the
show went on. However (this is solely my opinion having constantly
encountered fans on the street, in airports, etc. who are only now
getting into the show via dvd of season 1) DEADWOOD is (was) still
ascending.



We've been cut off at the knees.

Read this. Memorize this. I'm afraid some Monitor from Big Brother will
soon delete it and I will never work for HBO again... at least while
Albrecht is at the helm.

Interesting read.

[Smoove_B]

Interesting read.

Yes it was -- thanks for sharing. 120 million for Rome? They must be pulling down some serious coin to be able to float that kind of production.

[jeansberg]

After all, "if an eye offends thee, pluck it out..."

Lol.

[setaside]

I think W. Earl Brown is one of my new favorite people.

[Doomboy]

I just went to HBO's website and informed them that I will be cancelling HBO once Deadwood is gone. Probably won't make any difference, but then again telling them didn't take much time either.

Deadwood really is the only reason I keep HBO anymore. I hate the Sopranos, I don't really care one way or the other for Entourage, ROME is cool, but Eh. There is nothing else on the network I care about. Movies I can get cheaper from Netflix. So, once they cancel Deadwood, there is no reason for me to give them money every month. I have not yet heard of a show coming up on HBO that is half as good as Deadwood.

[hentzau]

A retrospective on Deadwood, 10 years(!) after the first season premiered.

Still think this show is some of the finest TV ever made.

(Oh yeah. The video is NSFW. This is Deadwood we're talking about...)

[Smoove_B]

The Deadwood movie is happening:

No less a source than the network’s programming president Michael Lombardo said “it’s going to happen,” TV Line reported at the Television Critics Association’s press tour party in Pasadena on Thursday. Creator David Milch has apparently pitched a story for the profanity filled and critically acclaimed cult-favorite Western’s reunion.

[tjg_marantz]

Cock sucker!

[Doomboy]

Yeah, I'm glad I taught you that fuckin' word.

Interesting news. Not sure how I feel about it now, all these years later.

[tjg_marantz]

If they can tie it in a bow, it'll bring finality that is much needed. I can see it set a few years in the future with everyone struggling with the incorporation of the town.

[Skinypupy]

I should probably get around to watching Season 3 one of these days.

[tiny ogre]

I should probably get around to watching Season 3 one of these days.

I loved the first season.

[TiLT]

I thought this would never happen, especially after they tore down the sets and everyone involved in the production said the fight was over.

So yay!

[AjD]

I've been waiting (hoping) for this... I've never watched Deadwood because:

1) I hear it's terrific.
2) They cancelled it before it was done.

These two points together make me NOT want to watch a show -- perfect recipe for frustration. I can see why HBO wants to wrap it up... I can't be the only one who feels this way. Wrap it up nicely, and they've turned a fan disappointment into a perennial classic. It makes good business sense. If they complete the story arc in a satisfying way, I'll binge watch the whole thing (well, once a day while I work out ).

[disarm]

We need to convince them to wrap up Carnivale next...

[mori]

I should probably get around to watching Season 3 one of these days.

I loved the first season.

And I loved the second season. It brought us an evil character I could have compassion for. I love shows or movies that can compel me to feel that way.

Still hate the fictional speech pattern they used in the show.

[GreenGoo]

So HBO in Canada has been slow to get the second episode of Westworld to us but were nice enough to add the complete first and third (no second, w.t.f.) seasons of Deadwood for our viewing pleasure, so I started in on that finally while I wait.

Very enjoyable. On episode 4 or 5 of the first season.

I've managed to avoid spoilers all this time so I'll try to continue that success until I've seen everything I can.

[Rip]

So HBO in Canada has been slow to get the second episode of Westworld to us but were nice enough to add the complete first and third (no second, w.t.f.) seasons of Deadwood for our viewing pleasure, so I started in on that finally while I wait.

Very enjoyable. On episode 4 or 5 of the first season.

I've managed to avoid spoilers all this time so I'll try to continue that success until I've seen everything I can.

Enjoy, it is an awesome story, I hope they finish telling it someday.

[GreenGoo]

So it was episode 4, because at the end of it the thing happens that you suspected was going to happen but you hoped wasn't going to happen, but it did. Ah well.

[Blackhawk]

The biggest source of spoilers for Deadwood is knowing the history of Deadwood (or of that era in the west.) It isn't really historical (although the costumes and props are dead on), but a lot of the characters are historical, and it does hit the historical beats.

[GreenGoo]

I hit episode 7 or 8 and I think it's a little too dark for me. I could handle all the amoral stuff going on for the most part, but at the beginning of this episode a couple of teenagers are looking for their father and Swearenger invites the (15 year old?) to start whoring if they need money.

I'd already spoken to my wife several times because the series is rated 14A, but the portrayal of women is so disrespectful that I think you need to have a high level of maturity to understand just how heinous the treatment is. Sure, it might be historically accurate but it borders on too much even for me. It would be different (possibly) if the show was specifically about whoring, but the casual misogyny is actual worse for how inconsequential it as compared to the show as a whole.

If I watch Roots for example, I expect the realities of slavery to be front and center. If I watch a show mostly about the intrigues in a white plantation owner's family, having atrocities happening in the background, while realistic, detracts from the main story. It's hard (but not impossible) for me to concentrate on the story instead of the brutal mistreatment going on in the background.

And that's how I feel about Deadwood. Up until now I've just been "gosh, that sure is a shitty life" but now Swearenger is busy trapping the Brother and Sister into a life of servitude, with the intent for this girl to become another pussy in his stable of abused whores.

I'm just not in the mood for that level of shitty, even if it is historically accurate.

[Rip]

I hit episode 7 or 8 and I think it's a little too dark for me. I could handle all the amoral stuff going on for the most part, but at the beginning of this episode a couple of teenagers are looking for their father and Swearenger invites the (15 year old?) to start whoring if they need money.

I'd already spoken to my wife several times because the series is rated 14A, but the portrayal of women is so disrespectful that I think you need to have a high level of maturity to understand just how heinous the treatment is. Sure, it might be historically accurate but it borders on too much even for me. It would be different (possibly) if the show was specifically about whoring, but the casual misogyny is actual worse for how inconsequential it as compared to the show as a whole.

If I watch Roots for example, I expect the realities of slavery to be front and center. If I watch a show mostly about the intrigues in a white plantation owner's family, having atrocities happening in the background, while realistic, detracts from the main story. It's hard (but not impossible) for me to concentrate on the story instead of the brutal mistreatment going on in the background.

And that's how I feel about Deadwood. Up until now I've just been "gosh, that sure is a shitty life" but now Swearenger is busy trapping the Brother and Sister into a life of servitude, with the intent for this girl to become another pussy in his stable of abused whores.

I'm just not in the mood for that level of shitty, even if it is historically accurate.

Did you watch up until their deaths? The brother and sister like many in the story are hardly innocent. Watch some more and you will be surprised to find some endearing traits to many of these despicable people. I think that is much of what I like about the story. Much like Sons of Anarchy. I remember the first time I saw Chucky and I was like eww, glad that is over. Next thing I knew I was hoping for more Chucky stuff.

[hentzau]

Without trying to spoil too much, the brother and sister (well, at least the sister) are not as innocent as it all seems.

[McNutt]

I don't know if I would say they're disrespectful of women rather than disrespectful of everybody. Young attractive women are seen as a way to make money with their bodies (having sex with people). Brawny men are seen as a way to make money with their bodies (intimidating/killing people). Both are horrible jobs and the show focuses on amoral people wanting to have those roles filled for their own gain. All the women on the show aren't there just to be whores just as all men aren't there just to be murderers, but there's enough of that to go around and it isn't lopsided in my opinion.

[GreenGoo]

Did you watch up until their deaths? The brother and sister like many in the story are hardly innocent. Watch some more and you will be surprised to find some endearing traits to many of these despicable people.

No, I did not. In fact I stopped watching the episode moments after cutter mccutterson (I don't have a memory for names), the dude that has done Swearenger's dirty work was stroking the girl's finger. Right around the time Swearenger offered 2 bits a day to the brother to sweep the saloon.

It helps to know that the brother/sister are not what they appeared to be at the start of the episode. They really just seemed to be 2 kids left without parents, looking for their father.

I'll give it another shot and see how the episode plays out. I swear if I have to watch Swearenger screw over a couple of innocent kids, I'm coming back here for you all.

Thanks for the responses. I thought I was seriously done with the show, which kind of sucked because I was enjoying it up until then.

[McNutt]

McShane did an amazing job as Swearengen. How in the hell do you make a character that mean and nasty so fascinating and, at times, someone you root for? McShane's performance was just brilliant.

[GreenGoo]

I don't know if I would say they're disrespectful of women rather than disrespectful of everybody. Young attractive women are seen as a way to make money with their bodies (having sex with people). Brawny men are seen as a way to make money with their bodies (intimidating/killing people). Both are horrible jobs and the show focuses on amoral people wanting to have those roles filled for their own gain. All the women on the show aren't there just to be whores just as all men aren't there just to be murderers, but there's enough of that to go around and it isn't lopsided in my opinion.

Swearenger sells 2 things. Booze and pussy. Both are just things to sell, and if the pussy gets uppity (the booze never does) then the pussy gets put in its place.

Sure everyone is treated badly, but the women are treated particularly badly, presumably because it's easier to do so.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking these women are anything but sex slaves. These aren't modern sex trade workers who are empowered and choose to sell their bodies.

They are slaves and little more than holes for men to use. When Trixie defends herself so she is not beaten to death in the first episode, she is treated as the one doing wrong and Swearenger threatens to kill her if it happens again, or if she doesn't promise right then and there that it wouldn't happen again.

That's hardly the same treatment as scamming an Easterner and then pushing him off a cliff.