tesla motors

[Zaxxon]

Some more impressions after I took the car on a 160-mile romp last night, trying out I-70 up into the mountains and back, as well as 285 for curvy mountain roads:

-The 310-mile range is awesome. I started out at 90% (Tesla's recommended level when not planning to need the full range that day), which was about 278 miles or so.
-After 160+ miles of driving, I had 99 miles left (179 miles rated range used). I think that's a pretty solid number given that the miles I did involved heavy elevation changes, stints at 80 mph, and shall we say 'spirited' acceleration.
-With home charging on my 40A EVSE, the Model 3 gains about 38 mph. That compares to my old Leaf at 25 mph, and the Bolt's speced 25 mph. If I had a 48A EVSE, I could get 44 mph. And on a road trip, Superchargers are around twice the speed of the current competition, with far greater availability.
-The thing is planted to the ground, easily taking tight curves at speed. Heavy regen makes for easy slowing for curves without explicitly braking. Followed by head-pushing acceleration out of the curve.
-The UI is great. Simple, speedy map/satellite view. Voice control that works, eg 'Play Chvrches' or 'Take me home' or 'Navigate to the Torchy's Tacos downtown.' Integrated (and free) LTE connectivity, Slacker Plus and TuneIn media. The speedo on the top-left of the tablet interface took me about 5 miles to get used to, and the lack of lights behind the steering wheel aids visibility at night. The HVAC controls work fine.
-Autopilot, for all the headline-grabbing negative press coverage it gets, is fantastic. My other car (a Volvo) has its own Autopilot-like feature called PilotAssist II, based on Mobileye's chip/sensors. It will happily silently disengage at any sign of a curve, construction, poorly-painted road lines, etc, and drive me right off the road. I've used Autopilot for maybe 120 miles so far, and it's been nearly flawless. The 'nearly' part is mostly stuff that isn't strictly Autopilot's fault--things like me having it engaged on a surface road and having it want to take a turn lane that I didn't want it to, or having a semi hugging my lane line and my car not moving away from that side of the lane as far as I would. Autopilot handles routine curves with ease, and even proactively slowed down before taking tighter mountain curves. I'm not sure whether it uses GPS to know it should do that, or looks ahead, or what. But it's pretty cool (and creepy). Bottom line is that if the other driving assists I've used (Volvo, Nissan, Toyota ACC) are toddlers, Autopilot is at least a HS driving class student. In the scenarios where it's meant to be used--well-maintained divided highways without construction complications or crazy curves--it's pretty rock-solid today.
-While the trim available today is not $35k, these driving impressions will hold for the base model (sans the Autopilot stuff). A $35k version with 220 miles of range and acceleration that's a bit more subdued but still in the ballpark of this trim is going to sell as many as they can make.

Owning one reinforces my thought that the financial side of things, while obviously something Tesla needs to work out, is really not the point at this stage. They're going to stay afloat as long as they have the customer fervor that they do (someone [Larry Page, et al] would throw them a life vest if it came to that), and their product is head-and-shoulders ahead of the competition.

[DD*]

Speaking of the competition, I saw a Karma on the road today in Detroit. Had manufacturer plates on it. Interesting looking car, for sure.


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[Isgrimnur]

Hannah Elliott at Bloomberg didn't like it (Aug 2017):

I drove a gray-green Revero up the Palisades Parkway this week in a cool mist that would have made a prettier car look like magic and feel like a dream from behind the wheel. Instead, this redux Fisker Karma put me in a bad mood.
...
Which brings us to the 2018 Karma Revero they’re selling for $130,000. Karma is now unrelated to Fisker Automotive. Henrik himself is not involved. But the car is fundamentally the same as the original Karma, including both the design and the platform.

This is unfortunate.
...
First, the details: The Karma Revero has two electric motors and a 21-kilowatt-hour battery that drive the rear wheels, plus a two-liter, four-cylinder turbocharged engine that extends the range of the car when the battery depletes. General Motors supplies the engine, though it doesn’t currently make it anymore, so when supplies dwindle, the Revero will need another supplier.

As for that range, the Revero will go 50 miles under electric-only power before it switches to gasoline—averaging 20 mpg at speed. These are not impressive numbers. The $33,200 Chevrolet Volt gets 53 miles per electric charge and 42 mpg under gasoline; the sub-$70,000 Tesla Model S gets more than 200 miles on pure electricity.
...
The Revero achieves 60 mph in 5.4 seconds under Sport mode, its fastest setting. Sustain mode, the slowest, sees 60 mph in 7.3 seconds. Top speed (again, in Sport mode only) is 125 mph. We all know the expensive, high-power Tesla Model S in P100D form can hit 60 mph way faster, in record-breaking sub-3-seconds time. But even the base Tesla Model S, which costs $68,500, can hit 60 mph in 5.5 seconds. The disparity here between price and speed doesn’t compute.

[Zaxxon]

I liked this shot of my car with power transmission towers looking on from the background...



The aero wheels have grown on me. I still wouldn't say they look attractive, per se, but they no longer jump out to me as weirdmobile.

[coopasonic]

Got an email today regarding delivery of my Model 3! Apparently Musk sleeping on the factory floor created some motivation. Had to send some more information, but hoping to pick up in the next day or so!

Awesome.

How am I jealous of a guy getting a car that I decided I wasn't interested in?

I just put a reservation down on a car I decided I wasn't interested in. I may be broken.

[Jaymann]

I don't think you will be disappointed. Can you imagine if there was another "gas crisis"? It is to laugh.

[Zaxxon]

Awesome, coop!

[LordMortis]

I don't think you will be disappointed. Can you imagine if there was another "gas crisis"? It is to laugh.

Last week I noticed we broke $80 per barrel mark again. This had me because of Ford's projected decimation ( ) of the sedan lines in the US.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/18/news/ec ... index.html

[coopasonic]

I am really just hedging my bets. I am not yet convinced. I need to find someone to let me drive theirs. Zax or Jaymann, you aren't heading to Dallas any time soon are you? I also need to drive the G70. I don't worry too much about gas prices as I don't drive that much. It's more about the gadget factor.

[Zaxxon]

No, not Dallas. Possibly Lubbock, but that doesn't help you. If you find yourself in Denver, it's all yours.

[Chaz]

I don't think you will be disappointed. Can you imagine if there was another "gas crisis"? It is to laugh.

Last week I noticed we broke $80 per barrel mark again. This had me because of Ford's projected decimation ( ) of the sedan lines in the US.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/18/news/ec ... index.html

Yeah, same. I got a Fiesta back in 2011, just after the financial crisis and high oil prices got people to start buying fuel efficient small cars again. Seeing the price climbing back up makes me think I'll be holding onto this thing for a while. At least until electrics get down into a lower price bracket, and the charging speed and infrastructure make it more realistic to have just electrics in the household.

[coopasonic]

No, not Dallas. Possibly Lubbock, but that doesn't help you. If you find yourself in Denver, it's all yours.

Hmmm, wonder what a same day round trip to Denver would cost.

[Isgrimnur]

Probably more than a trip to Lubbock. But then you'd be in Lubbock.

On the other hand, I will gladly buy you a dinner if you bring me back an ice chest full of calzones.

[Zaxxon]

No, not Dallas. Possibly Lubbock, but that doesn't help you. If you find yourself in Denver, it's all yours.

Hmmm, wonder what a same day round trip to Denver would cost.

You could also try Turo, but I think most of their Model 3s are in CA.

[Zaxxon]

Tesla updated their delivery timing estimates for new reservations today, cutting them significantly. Looks like the ramp-up is finally getting on-track.

[coopasonic]

I saws that last night, which is why I now have a reservation.

[Zaxxon]

Maybe we can get stessier on board...

[coopasonic]

No, not Dallas. Possibly Lubbock, but that doesn't help you. If you find yourself in Denver, it's all yours.

Hmmm, wonder what a same day round trip to Denver would cost.

You could also try Turo, but I think most of their Model 3s are in CA.

There is one in Dallas for $245 a day. I am not sure I am excited to pay that price... someone here at work owns one. I need to track that person down.

[Zaxxon]

No, not Dallas. Possibly Lubbock, but that doesn't help you. If you find yourself in Denver, it's all yours.

Hmmm, wonder what a same day round trip to Denver would cost.

You could also try Turo, but I think most of their Model 3s are in CA.

There is one in Dallas for $245 a day. I am not sure I am excited to pay that price... someone here at work owns one. I need to track that person down.

Ah, cool. I was suggesting it as a probably cheaper alternative than flying to Denver. If you've got a source at work that's clearly your best bet.

[stessier]

Maybe we can get stessier on board...

You have me close, but I don't think I can make it to the end of the year. Also, I can't figure out how to price it out, so I don't know how much it will cost. Interestingly, I think it would be easier to convince my wife to get a Tesla than the Bolt even if there was a big price difference.

The driver assistance stuff doesn't really do anything for me - the big selling points would be the charging network, the increased range over the Bolt (so I'd be getting the bigger battery), and the styling. I believe the nearest showroom is in Atlanta...which is not exactly convenient.

[Zaxxon]

Maybe we can get stessier on board...

You have me close, but I don't think I can make it to the end of the year. Also, I can't figure out how to price it out, so I don't know how much it will cost. Interestingly, I think it would be easier to convince my wife to get a Tesla than the Bolt even if there was a big price difference.

The driver assistance stuff doesn't really do anything for me - the big selling points would be the charging network, the increased range over the Bolt (so I'd be getting the bigger battery), and the styling. I believe the nearest showroom is in Atlanta...which is not exactly convenient.

Here's a third-party configurator.

[pr0ner]

Consumer Reports has come out with their report, saying the Model 3 is not good enough to recommend.

They praised the car's acceleration, handling, and driving range, but takes issue with the Model 3's controls, wind noise at highway speeds, uncomfortable back seat, and firm ride. In the biggest knock leading to their decision not to recommend the car, they didn't like the braking at all, but indicated that if the braking issues could be resolved, they would consider recommending the car even with its other issues.

[Zaxxon]

Saw that. All I can say is they're nuts.

[stessier]

Here's a third-party configurator.

Thanks!

Unfortunately, it's $10k more for the extended range Model 3 (with no other options) vs the Bolt I am looking at. I'd have to save up another year at least to pull that off and I don't think my current ride will last. A bit sad, but such is life.

[coopasonic]

Here's a third-party configurator.

Thanks!

Unfortunately, it's $10k more for the extended range Model 3 (with no other options) vs the Bolt I am looking at. I'd have to save up another year at least to pull that off and I don't think my current ride will last. A bit sad, but such is life.

On top of that, if you order the Model 3 today you almost certainly aren't getting the full $7500 tax credit.

[stessier]

Here's a third-party configurator.

Thanks!

Unfortunately, it's $10k more for the extended range Model 3 (with no other options) vs the Bolt I am looking at. I'd have to save up another year at least to pull that off and I don't think my current ride will last. A bit sad, but such is life.

On top of that, if you order the Model 3 today you almost certainly aren't getting the full $7500 tax credit.

I'm not with the Bolt either...I don't pay $7500 in taxes. Go me!

But yeah, I get your point. There is some talk that Congress is going to have to extend the credit because it is likely that within the next 12 months, the only cars qualifying for the credit will be made by foreign companies and that won't go over well with the Republican base. It amuses me to think that this is what it takes to get the credit extended.

[Zaxxon]

Here's a third-party configurator.

Thanks!

Unfortunately, it's $10k more for the extended range Model 3 (with no other options) vs the Bolt I am looking at. I'd have to save up another year at least to pull that off and I don't think my current ride will last. A bit sad, but such is life.

On top of that, if you order the Model 3 today you almost certainly aren't getting the full $7500 tax credit.

TBD. The full credit looked like it'd only last through 9/30, but it's now looking like Tesla is pushing a lot of cars to Canada to try to hit 200k US deliveries after 6/30, which would mean the full credit would last through 12/31. If their updated delivery estimates are accurate (ha!), that would mean folks getting the LR battery would have a good shot at the full credit.

Stessier--just curious, but if you're comparing to a Bolt, why are you looking at LR? That's 72 EPA miles more than the Bolt, and the SR Model 3 is likely right around the Bolt's range (220 sandbagged vs 238), but with much better charging options (48A L2 vs 32A L2, and Supercharging vs CCS for L3). IMO, if you're comparing to a Bolt, the standard-range 3 is the one to compare.

[Zaxxon]

Scratch part of my last comment--I think the SR only charges at 32A on L2, equivalent to the Bolt.

[coopasonic]

Here's a third-party configurator.

Thanks!

Unfortunately, it's $10k more for the extended range Model 3 (with no other options) vs the Bolt I am looking at. I'd have to save up another year at least to pull that off and I don't think my current ride will last. A bit sad, but such is life.

On top of that, if you order the Model 3 today you almost certainly aren't getting the full $7500 tax credit.

TBD. The full credit looked like it'd only last through 9/30, but it's now looking like Tesla is pushing a lot of cars to Canada to try to hit 200k US deliveries after 6/30, which would mean the full credit would last through 12/31. If their updated delivery estimates are accurate (ha!), that would mean folks getting the LR battery would have a good shot at the full credit.

OK, I was trying to read the regs and understand them, but I think I get it now. Full value through the quartger following the quarter they hit the target, so they want to hit the target on or after 7/1 in Q3 to extend to year end so 4-6 months should be good for the full amount. I am still going to try to find one to test drive and will still check out the Genesis G70 and still need to check with my insurance co, but this makes me feel a lot better.

Zaxxon or Jaymann, how did your car insurance change from your old car and what was that?

Free power at work is a bonus, though I could see demand for the chargers increasing... eventually work may start charging us for the privilege. They have been extending it one year at a time and reevaluating each year.

[stessier]

Stessier--just curious, but if you're comparing to a Bolt, why are you looking at LR? That's 72 EPA miles more than the Bolt, and the SR Model 3 is likely right around the Bolt's range (220 sandbagged vs 238), but with much better charging options (48A L2 vs 32A L2, and Supercharging vs CCS for L3). IMO, if you're comparing to a Bolt, the standard-range 3 is the one to compare.

That's fair, but it's stretching it to say that car is for sale (going back to hitting timelines).

I get a supplier discount so the maxed out Bolt is about $2k less than the Premium Standard Range Model 3 ($42k vs $40k) according to the calculator you linked. I think that is similarly equipped. The faster charging would be nice, but I don't think it is $6k ($2k + $4k in federal incentives) and 6-12 months nice.

[Zaxxon]

Zaxxon or Jaymann, how did your car insurance change from your old car and what was that?

Came from a Nissan Leaf and insurance went down slightly moving to the Model 3 (safety, yay!). Not significantly--something like $25/6 mo lower than the Leaf.

Free power at work is a bonus, though I could see demand for the chargers increasing... eventually work may start charging us for the privilege. They have been extending it one year at a time and reevaluating each year.

Yeah, free power is nice.

That's fair, but it's stretching it to say that car is for sale (going back to hitting timelines).

I get a supplier discount so the maxed out Bolt is about $2k less than the Premium Standard Range Model 3 ($42k vs $40k) according to the calculator you linked. I think that is similarly equipped. The faster charging would be nice, but I don't think it is $6k ($2k + $4k in federal incentives) and 6-12 months nice.

Also fair--but it's stretching it to say that the Bolt and the SR 3 are similarly equipped. Similar range, yes. Similar look/size/driving capability/tech, not even close. And I'm not trying to knock the Bolt. I've driven it and it's a big improvement over my old Leaf in pretty much every way. But I truly think the 3 is a big improvement over the Bolt in pretty much every way.

[Jaymann]

My insurance got jacked up about $150/6 months vs. a 2014 Honda Civic. But no gas should make up for that quickly.

[coopasonic]

My insurance got jacked up about $150/6 months vs. a 2014 Honda Civic. But no gas should make up for that quickly.

Thanks.

I've always discounted the gas savings because I just don't drive as far as most people do, but even with my ~10k miles a year I'm spending around $1500 on gas each year (premium gas in a 21mpg car). With free charging at work that expense goes to zero. That goes a long way to justifying a car I have little real justification for.

[LawBeefaroni]

I don't think you will be disappointed. Can you imagine if there was another "gas crisis"? It is to laugh.

Last week I noticed we broke $80 per barrel mark again. This had me because of Ford's projected decimation ( ) of the sedan lines in the US.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/18/news/ec ... index.html

I just did the math. I'm low mileage (~6K/year) and get have averaged 36.5 MPG so far in 2018. If I use an average price of $3.00/gal, I'm spending just under $500 a year in gas. I mean I'm almost spending more in car washes.

That's in a 4-door Ford (Lincoln) sedan. I'm pretty happy with that.

[LordMortis]

I just did the math. I'm low mileage (~6K/year) and get have averaged 36.5 MPG so far in 2018. If I use an average price of $3.00/gal, I'm spending just under $500 a year in gas. I mean I'm almost spending more in car washes.

That's in a 4-door Ford (Lincoln) sedan. I'm pretty happy with that.

Your Lincoln gets almost as much as 2009 Focus. Good for you. Not so much for me. I don't think about gas mileage much, though. I figure I have about 100,000 miles on my car. If the average has been $3 a gallon, which is probably about right and I get somewhere under 40/MPG, say 37. That's about 2700 gallons or $8100 in gas over ten years. $800 in gas a year for a car that average coast $1300 a year, gets $100 a year in oil changes, is up to $100 a year to register with the state, and has to date cost of about in tires and other repairs of about $350 a year and yet somehow PLPD aka no fault with no primary medical is $1884 a year.

$1884 for insurance that is basically insuring other people in the most minor way possible. Everything else combined including gas and the sticker price of the vehicle, a combined $2664 a year and getting cheaper.

It's interesting to break down.

[Jaymann]

A word of caution: you will be using your rear view mirror, a lot. Because that is where the other cars are.

[Carpet_pissr]

A word of caution: you will be using your rear view mirror, a lot. Because that is where the other cars are.

I also foresee this guy in your rear view mirror soon.

[Zaxxon]

Or this one...

[Zaxxon]

I started playing with TeslaFi recently. Pretty slick. You can grant it access to an API token so it can query and log your car to generate all sorts of cool stats for you.

Efficiency by temperature:


Detail for a drive (there's lots more including maps, Google satellite view of the start/end, elevation, etc that I'm not sharing here:


Summary for a day: (can also see a calendar view summarizing the month and each day within the month:


Lots of other cool stuff, too: battery degradation graphing, a lifetime and monthly heat map showing where your car has been, emails whenever drives over a certain distance are completed, text notifications of various activities. All sorts of neatness.

[telcta]

Wow. I thought I spent a lot of time playing around with data on my Fusion... this is like a whole different level of data collection and analysis available. I see myself becoming pretty obsessed with all the tools out there for the Tesla.

Your car looks great, Zaxxon.