tesla motors

[Jaymann]

A word of caution: you will be using your rear view mirror, a lot. Because that is where the other cars are.

I also foresee this guy in your rear view mirror soon.

This is why I rely on the tone that rings when you exceed the speed limit. Yes, it knows the speed limit for every road.

[Zaxxon]

Wow. I thought I spent a lot of time playing around with data on my Fusion... this is like a whole different level of data collection and analysis available. I see myself becoming pretty obsessed with all the tools out there for the Tesla.

Your car looks great, Zaxxon.

Thanks! And yeah, this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as API stuff. You can also integrate the car with Alexa, run your own logging server, etc. I think this is far enough for me...

[Zaxxon]

This is pretty incredible...

I took a trip from Denver to Colorado Springs tonight for a race (foot) tomorrow, in normal I-25 conditions (speed limit 75 mph most of the way, with flow of traffic around 80). In my Leaf, that'd have been a 'drive 15 under the speed limit, or end up out of charge 10 miles out from my destination' even though EPA range on the Leaf is 107 miles and the trip is shy of 70.

In the Model 3, I got 99.8% of rated range and used only 23% of my total capacity. Unbelievable.

[Isgrimnur]

There be mountains.

[Zaxxon]

There be mountains.

In Colorado we call that 'a bit of a slight incline.'

[The Meal]

@ 90 kph (55 mph) or 90 mph?

[edit:]Unless you did a lot of reversin' I'm looking at an average speed in the 80 mph range (which is pretty typical for that stretch). Super duper impressive battery numbers!! With our new home and its proximity (or lack thereof) to my current job, I'm certainly considering my own greener options, and this thread has been bonkers for the last page or two.

[Zaxxon]

80 mph. If you look at the graph, the average was 67 mph but the interstate portion in the middle hung out at 80ish.

I did an airport run this am (I-25, 225) at around 70 mph average and got 110% rated efficiency.

[mori]

New Tesla range record. I do not know how you even do that safely driving that slow. And the car had to be towed to a service center afterwards.

[Zaxxon]

I actually met up with them at the end. They were exhausted. Can't really blame the car, as they (foolishly?) ran it until it literally shut down, then they pushed it into the Supercharger. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there's some safety that kicks in when the pack is fully depleted.

[coopasonic]

No, not Dallas. Possibly Lubbock, but that doesn't help you. If you find yourself in Denver, it's all yours.

Hmmm, wonder what a same day round trip to Denver would cost.

You could also try Turo, but I think most of their Model 3s are in CA.

There is one in Dallas for $245 a day. I am not sure I am excited to pay that price... someone here at work owns one. I need to track that person down.

Ah, cool. I was suggesting it as a probably cheaper alternative than flying to Denver. If you've got a source at work that's clearly your best bet.

I checked DFW-> DEN just for grins and... $111 round trip for this weekend! Hey Zaxxon, whatcha up to? Got a couch I can borrow?

I'm kidding, but wow that's cheap (as long as I have no bags).

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, that's pretty cheap.

[LordMortis]

(as long as I have no bags).

Whenever humanly possible I try not to check bags, not because of cost (which I also hate) but because my I'm like 3 for 10 (which really means 20 as I have never checked bags one way) lifetime when it comes to lost and recovered (thanfully) and/or completely mangled bags.

[Zaxxon]

And just to be clear, both the car and I will be here this weekend.

[coopasonic]

(as long as I have no bags).

Whenever humanly possible I try not to check bags, not because of cost (which I also hate) but because my I'm like 3 for 10 (which really means 20 as I have never checked bags one way) lifetime when it comes to lost and recovered (thanfully) and/or completely mangled bags.

These are beyond "no checked bags" these are no bags at all. No overhead bin access tickets. I am seeing as low as $105 round trip on frontier with only a personal item (purse, small backpack).

And just to be clear, both the car and I will be here this weekend.

That particular one would have been a 4 day weekend, but I am seeing options for same day round trip flights that might be interesting, basically get into Denver at like 7am and leave again at 8pm. Long enough for lunch, a little hang out time and a test drive. That's an interesting option... with the extra time and transportation/parking on the ends it might be more sensible to take the Turo option though.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, Frontier periodically offers crazy rates to Denver.

That particular one would have been a 4 day weekend, but I am seeing options for same day round trip flights that might be interesting, basically get into Denver at like 7am and leave again at 8pm. Long enough for lunch, a little hang out time and a test drive. That's an interesting option... with the extra time and transportation/parking on the ends it might be more sensible to take the Turo option though.

I'm not trying to talk you into it, seriously. But if you do decide it's your best option, could be fun to get an impromptu OO get-together going. Turo probably is the most sensible, though.

[LawBeefaroni]

Wider user base...

A Model S driver in Laguna Beach has crashed into a parked (and thankfully unoccupied) police SUV while her EV's Autopilot was reportedly engaged, sustaining minor injuries in the process. It's not yet known what the driver was doing at the time of the collision, but the incident is once again raising questions about Tesla's role in educating drivers about its semi-autonomous feature.

[Jaymann]

Too bad those rims don't match the body color.

[Zaxxon]

More crazy efficiency data... This was a drive from Denver metro up to the peak of Mt Evans (elev gain > 8,000 ft), and on to Winter Park. Net gain 3,000 feet. Speeds ranging from 80 mph on I-70 to 20s near the peak of Evans.

95% of rated efficiency. Once the return is taken into account, should be well over 100% for the trip.

[Jaymann]

Have you used any charging stations? How did that go?

[Zaxxon]

Yes, but not sure what you mean. It went... Fine? But this is my third plug-in car so it's all pretty normal to me at this point. Superchargers are still a crazy accomplishment to my mind, tho.

[Zaxxon]

When elevation is on my side...



Edit: data accuracy refers to map points, etc. The overall miles driven and energy consumed is accurate.

[Jaymann]

Yes, but not sure what you mean. It went... Fine? But this is my third plug-in car so it's all pretty normal to me at this point. Superchargers are still a crazy accomplishment to my mind, tho.

I'm interested in how long it takes and the cost.

[LordMortis]

Yes, but not sure what you mean. It went... Fine? But this is my third plug-in car so it's all pretty normal to me at this point. Superchargers are still a crazy accomplishment to my mind, tho.

I'm interested in how long it takes and the cost.

And convenience. Planning around them vs planning around a gas station, and if they are full, etc... How charging stations work would be my biggest gap in understanding between me and purchase (after the price is doable)

[Jaymann]

They show up on your navigation and it seems there are a lot of them. At least in So Cal.

[Zaxxon]

This is almost certainly far more info than you wanted, but...

Charging has to be divided into 3 categories:

Home - with just a normal 12A/120V plug, you'll get about 4-5 miles of range per hour of charge (1.44 kW sustained draw). Not great, but if you have a short commute, 40-60 miles overnight might be plenty. This is typically enough for a plug-in hybrid, as well since its battery will be comparatively smaller than a full EV. This is known as level one, or L1 charging.

Most folks with a full EV opt to install either an EVSE (fancy term for an EV charging station) or a 240V plug (typically 14-50 for Teslas, but 14-30 dryer outlets are also common. All of these options will drastically improve charge time. On the cheap end, a 14-50 outlet may cost a couple hundred bucks for an electrician to install (or more if your home electrical panel has no open capacity or the wiring path to the garage is a PITA). For an EVSE, they're typically around $500 plus the electrician cost to put in the proper outlet or hardwire it. Range added on the low end of these setups is around 20 miles per hour of charge, up to 44 mph for the Model 3 on its top 48A / 60A (11.5 kW sustained draw) circuit setup. I have a JuiceBox Pro which is 40A and charges the 3 at 38 mph (9.6 kW sustained). I paid $550 for the EVSE and a couple hundred for the 14-50 plug it uses. I could have just gotten the plug and used the cable that comes with the Tesla for 25ish mph of charge (32A). Since I have another plug-in vehicle I went for the more convenient setup.

Short answer is the cost will range from $0 to about $1000 all-in for most folks, and which option you choose depends on how quickly you want to be able to charge. This (240V charging) is known as L2.

Superchargers - I started with the home setups to put some perspective around the power these things put out. At max draw, Superchargers shoot 120 kW into your car, which I believe is around 350 mph of charge on the Model 3. They won't sustain that rate as they taper when the battery gets past about half full to protect the life of the battery pack. Supposedly v3 of the Supercharger is coming at the end of the year, and will be significantly faster.

If you ask the car to navigate you to a place beyond your car's current range, it will automatically try to route you through Superchargers as needed, and will tell you how long you need to stay before you have enough juice to continue. The in-car display will also show you how many stalls are open before you arrive, and nearby amenities. (Supercharger stations range from 4 stalls in the boonies to 50ish.

How long you need to stay at a Supercharger will depend on the particulars of your trip, but ranges from 10 minutes to about 75 minutes, with typical (by my non-scientific eyeball method) being 20-45 minutes.

As for convenience, Tesla has most US interstate routes covered at this point, and they're filling in the last of those (eg I-94 through ND) along with popular non-interstate routes (eg US 50 through Colorado). The cost depends on your state but Tesla seems to be pricing it where:

Cost @ home < cost to Supercharge << cost of gasoline-powered trips

The experience at a Supercharger is seamless. Your card is on file with Tesla, and you just plug in and walk away. The car and network talk to each other and handle the billing. Your phone (via the Tesla app) notifies you when it's time to continue on your way. Superchargers and non-Tesla high-voltage (defined as > 240V) charging is known as L3 or quick-charging.

Non-Tesla charging - It's a bit of a Wild West feel. Most chargers are part of a network and require that you have a membership card or app with that network. Cost varies widely, from free (most locations, in my experience) to ludicrous (Walgreens, at something like $1/ minute for a slow charge). Most are either free or reasonable.

Most L2 public chargers run at 30 or 32A, which translates to about 6.6 kW of charge power, for about 25 mph of charge for the Model 3.

There are public L3 chargers, most of which are 30 kW to 80 kW (vs Tesla Superchargers at 120 kW). They are typically either CCS or CHAdeMO plugs. The Leaf uses CHAdeMO and Bolt uses CCS. Tesla Models S and X can buy a CHAdeMO adapter, but Model 3 currently supports neither. I mention these only for completeness' sake, as in the US Superchargers far outnumber CCS and CHAdeMO combined, and have a much better and cheaper experience, as well.

Whew.

On this weekend's trip, we took advantage of a free L2 charger in Winter Park to add about 60 miles of range over 2 hours and change while we ate dinner and my kids played at a park. This was just because it was there, unused, and free. Had we actually needed to charge (which on this trip we did not), there was a Supercharger in Estes Park on our way home that would have done the trick.

Final stats from the in-car trip meter for the whole weekend:



So I'm right around 100% rated efficiency (220 Wh/mi) for the life of the car so far, and this trip was about 110% efficiency. I have the base 18" wheels with the Aero covers on.

If I had to put my thoughts on Tesla charging in a short summary, it'd be that you plug in at night and don't think about it during normal days. Even the base Model 3 has 220 miles of range, and my experience suggests Tesla chose pretty accurate numbers for their range estimates. My Leaf's was laughable (107 EPA miles, and I would typically see 80-90).

On road trips, Teslas have a very real advantage on convenience, and in most areas also on cost and availability.

[LordMortis]

What are the wait times like at superchargers and at wildwest charging stations? Do you plan a lunch around them or is it relatively quick?

It's weird that you guys make them seem so ubiquitous and I've never noticed a single station. Google says that's because they aren't superchargers all over the place here but I suppose that's not too bad if you plug in every night or know that you have to find one when you can't plug in for a day or two or have a long drive.

In addition to that it looks like the wild west option here is all " ChargePoint - Public" and the ones around me appear to be parking lots with no advertising.

As far as I can tell the closest one to me is about 5 miles away unmarked with an "unknown" cost in a Dentist office.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Charg ... 7?hl=en-US

Anyhoo, learning how to charge when away from home is actually the goal. I also see you should be happy production continues to go up but it looks like they are going to need to expand facilities to ramp up any further. I also wonder how they are reacting the sheer volatility of manufacturing right now. (Rumor has it they are preparing to go Henry Ford old school and partner with suppliers to move more manufacturing "in house" sort of. It's a fascinating rumor and the exact opposite of current trends in "disruptive exponential growth opportunity" Tesla never ever ever fails to )

[Zaxxon]

Last post was from my phone, so no links which probably led to your follow-up questions. I'll try to address that here by over-linking.

What are the wait times like at superchargers and at wildwest charging stations? Do you plan a lunch around them or is it relatively quick?

It depends. You can go to Tesla | Trips, pick a car (eg Model 3 Long Range), and enter in your start/end destination to get a taste of what the trip would look like in terms of charging times. Superchargers tend to be placed near restaurants, malls, etc, so that there are food and restrooms nearby so that you're not just sitting and waiting but can make the stop 'count' by knocking out a meal and bio break.

Wait times (actual wait times, as in for an open Supercharger stall) tend to be zero for the most part. There are a few stations (in CA mostly) that are exceptions, but Tesla has been expanding/duplicating them to address that. Charge times I addressed in the prior post and via the link above.

It's weird that you guys make them seem so ubiquitous and I've never noticed a single station. Google says that's because they aren't superchargers all over the place here but I suppose that's not too bad if you plug in every night or know that you have to find one when you can't plug in for a day or two or have a long drive.

They're pretty ubiquitous where they need to be, but they are not super-noticeable unless you're looking for them. The big ones will draw attention (anything with 20+ stalls would), but the small ones tend to just look like this near the back of a parking lot:

In addition to that it looks like the wild west option here is all " ChargePoint - Public" and the ones around me appear to be parking lots with no advertising.

As far as I can tell the closest one to me is about 5 miles away unmarked with an "unknown" cost in a Dentist office.

Check out PlugShare to more easily navigate what's available near you, what they may cost, how reliable they are, etc. You can filter on the site or in the app by plug type (all EVs will take J1772, which is the standard L2 plug; Teslas will also take 14-50 and Tesla plug). Each charging network tends to have its own app for locating chargers, but PlugShare is a good resource for doing what most EV drivers want to do, which is find juice regardless of network. I also like their crowdsourced reliability ratings, where people who actually use the plugs are checking in and rating how well they are working.

Anyhoo, learning how to charge when away from home is actually the goal.

How easy this is does depend on where you are, but it's gotten much better in populated areas in the last 3 years or so.

I also see you should be happy production continues to go up but it looks like they are going to need to expand facilities to ramp up any further.

Past 10k 3s/week, yes. Not until then.

(Rumor has it they are preparing to go Henry Ford old school and partner with suppliers to move more manufacturing "in house" sort of. It's a fascinating rumor and the exact opposite of current trends in "disruptive exponential growth opportunity" Tesla never ever ever fails to )

They've been doing this for a few years now. One prominent example are their seats. They had an issue when the X first started production that cause them a lot of problems and bad press. They've since pulled all seat manufacturing for all their models in-house. They like to have control of the whole stack where they can. This allows them to do some things that would be harder if you weren't the one developing the hardware and software, like using the cameras for auto-sensing rain wipers. They no longer need to include a dedicated rain sensor.

[coopasonic]

Zaxx, please stop saying things that make me want a Model 3.

Another 3 showed up on Turo for a little bit less money, $150/day min 2 days. I am thinking about it.

[Zaxxon]

Sorry, can't help you there. I know I've been a Tesla bull for many years, but the car is (IMO) actually as good as I had hoped/thought. It's tough to keep my trap shut.

[LordMortis]

heh, Tesla have a supercharging station as one my commuting distance movie theatres (my preferred one actually) and since searching, the theatre is now advertising to me like mad. I really need to just default my browsing to private mode. There is something very off putting about seeing me type things, here, for instance and then seeing ads based on my posts showing up on all my computer in every site I visit.

[Moliere]

The NHTSA Says Electric Vehicles Can No Longer Stay Silent at Low Speeds

A new ruling mandates that, by 2019, electric and hybrid cars must emit artificial sounds so pedestrians, cyclists, and the blind can better detect these ultraquiet machines. It codifies the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act that Congress passed in 2010, with support from engineering group SAE International and various industry and advocacy groups for the blind. The feds first raised the issue back in 2007, well before the second-generation Toyota Prius would push hybrids into the mainstream.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates the added noise will prevent 2400 pedestrian injuries each year after September 1, 2020, when every new hybrid and EV must be equipped to make sounds. Automakers must equip at least half of such models by September 2019. Only vehicles under 10,000 pounds GVWR are included; electrified motorcycles, three-wheelers, and medium- and heavy-duty trucks are exempt. Want more logic? Gasoline and diesel vehicles with auto stop/start systems aren’t required to make extra sounds while stationary, while EVs and hybrids must.

Until then, these will be required:

[Jaymann]

Yo Zaxxon, do you have to bring your charging cord with you to a charging station? I have mine suspended from the ceiling in my garage and it would be a hassle to keep taking it down.

[Zaxxon]

Yo Zaxxon, do you have to bring your charging cord with you to a charging station? I have mine suspended from the ceiling in my garage and it would be a hassle to keep taking it down.

Only if you're planning to plug into an outlet (eg a wall outlet). Generic non-Tesla L2 charging stations will have J1772 plugs built into them. To use those, you'll just need the adapter that came with the car. I keep mine in the glove box for easy access.

With Tesla charging stations (Superchargers and destination chargers using the HPWC), you need nothing as those will have the actual Tesla plug on them.

[Jaymann]

Great as I was thinking I would have to buy an additional cord. Might be a smart purchase down the road, so to speak.

[LawBeefaroni]

The NHTSA Says Electric Vehicles Can No Longer Stay Silent at Low Speeds

A new ruling mandates that, by 2019, electric and hybrid cars must emit artificial sounds so pedestrians, cyclists, and the blind can better detect these ultraquiet machines. It codifies the Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act that Congress passed in 2010, with support from engineering group SAE International and various industry and advocacy groups for the blind. The feds first raised the issue back in 2007, well before the second-generation Toyota Prius would push hybrids into the mainstream.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates the added noise will prevent 2400 pedestrian injuries each year after September 1, 2020, when every new hybrid and EV must be equipped to make sounds. Automakers must equip at least half of such models by September 2019. Only vehicles under 10,000 pounds GVWR are included; electrified motorcycles, three-wheelers, and medium- and heavy-duty trucks are exempt. Want more logic? Gasoline and diesel vehicles with auto stop/start systems aren’t required to make extra sounds while stationary, while EVs and hybrids must.

I was just thinking about this yesterday. I pulled into my alley and a neighbor was mowing with one of those handpowered mowers. He had his back to me, backing up, and I was running silent so I waited until he was done. He turned and saw me sitting there and looked startled and then did the "hi" sign to usher me through.

I like the quiet ride though. Guess we'll all get those Mustang noisemakers now. I mean if you have to make noise, make noise.

[Isgrimnur]

Loud EVs save lives.

[Jaymann]

I'm wondwering what the retrofit situation will be. Would be sweet if it were just a software update, but that doesn't seem likely.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm wondwering what the retrofit situation will be. Would be sweet if it were just a software update, but that doesn't seem likely.

Undoubtedly legislation steers us to an aftermarket device patented by Darrell Issa or something like that.

[Zaxxon]

Great as I was thinking I would have to buy an additional cord. Might be a smart purchase down the road, so to speak.

I already had a JuiceBox Pro 40A station, so my Tesla cord (known as a Mobile Connector in Tesla lingo) stays in the under-floor area of the trunk, too.

The HPWC (high-powered wall charger) is a nice thing to have if you have the electrical panel capacity for it (for a 60A breaker ideally) and your panel isn't too difficult to make a cable run to from the garage (so the cost to have an electrician wire it isn't obscene). It's slicker and charges the car a lot faster than the cord that came with the car (48A vs 32A), and lets you keep the cord in the car in case you need it. The JuiceBox and Tesla HPWC will also do load sharing in the event you ever find yourself with 2 EVs. Saves capacity on your electrical panel and on wiring costs as the stations will talk to one another and ensure that combined they don't draw more than your rated capacity.

That said, it's definitely not necessary to get the HPWC or another EVSE if 32A charging on the included cord is quick enough for your needs. I mention it only because if you're considering buying a second Mobile Connector for $300, I'd recommend considering the HPWC instead if your home electrical will support it. It's a $200 difference and greatly increases charge rate while looking tidier.

[Zaxxon]

I'm wondwering what the retrofit situation will be. Would be sweet if it were just a software update, but that doesn't seem likely.

No retrofit required--this applies only to new vehicles purchased after the deadline date. We get to be permanently silent.