With bee gone, is there no hope for gorillas?

[LordMortis]

Last week it was the amphibians. Yesterday, it was bananas. Today, it's bees.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spi ... 66,00.html

And yet clover continues grow around my house like mad.

[killbot737]

If only there were GM crops that killed exactly two things: killer bees and fire ants.


ADM and Monsanto, are you reading this? Quit with the terminator gene BS and get on to making something useful!

[Trent Steel]

"If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man."

Pffff. The plane is still in the air as far as I can tell.

[LordMortis]

"If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man."

Pffff. The plane is still in the air as far as I can tell.

I don't know. I think it's suffering. We need to make sure it's moving faster so we stay afloat.

[Smoove_B]

It would be pretty got-damn funny if civilization came to a halt over bees and not a lack of gasoline.

Friggin' insects. Pwned.

[LordMortis]

I have to wonder that decline means, too. When I was young honey bees were everywhere. Not only in the rural area I was at but they were everywhere in suburbia as well. As I got older, not only did you not see them so much in suburbia but they weren't abundant in the farming styx where they were actively being cultivated either. For as long as I have been living in suburbia, I can't remember the last time I saw a honey bee.

[Debris]

Maybe someone should tell the 100s of bees in my front yard that seem to really dig the Mexican heather that we planted.

[RunningMn9]

I have to wonder that decline means, too. When I was young honey bees were everywhere. Not only in the rural area I was at but they were everywhere in suburbia as well. As I got older, not only did you not see them so much in suburbia but they weren't abundant in the farming styx where they were actively being cultivated either. For as long as I have been living in suburbia, I can't remember the last time I saw a honey bee.

When I first moved to NJ, our lawn had a crap load of clover in it, and at any given time during the summer, there would be 50-100 honey bees taking care of business. And then they were gone. I don't think I've seen a honey bee in NJ in more than 10 years. Last year, my lawn was covered with clover - and squat.

It's all about wasps. A metric shit ton of wasps.

[Smoove_B]

Maybe someone should tell the 100s of bees in my front yard that seem to really dig the Mexican heather that we planted.

You probably go to bed with a full belly every night too, right? We couldn't expect you to believe that sometimes things are different outside of the 50 mile radius you probably spend 99% of your time in.

Shhhh...go back to sleep. Everything is ok. I promise.

[LawBeefaroni]

As far back as 2005, Haefeker ended an article he contributed to the journal Der Kritischer Agrarbericht (Critical Agricultural Report) with an Albert Einstein quote: "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man."

Maybe someone should tell the 100s of bees in my front yard that seem to really dig the Mexican heather that we planted.

Do what you can to keep them around.

[Poleaxe]

As far back as 2005, Haefeker ended an article he contributed to the journal Der Kritischer Agrarbericht (Critical Agricultural Report) with an Albert Einstein quote: "If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man."

Maybe someone should tell the 100s of bees in my front yard that seem to really dig the Mexican heather that we planted.

Do what you can to keep them around.

To the surprise of no one, I'm going to say I'm skeptical that all animal life is about to die off. This is a good one because the bee is dying off so quickly that we may soon know whether I am wrong or not.

I assume you guys are pulling for me.

[geezer]

Maybe someone should tell the 100s of bees in my front yard that seem to really dig the Mexican heather that we planted.

You probably go to bed with a full belly every night too, right? We couldn't expect you to believe that sometimes things are different outside of the 50 mile radius you probably spend 99% of your time in.

Shhhh...go back to sleep. Everything is ok. I promise.

Well, we don't KNOW that anything we are doing is causing this. After all, there have been bee die-offs in the past. Plus, if all the bees die other pollinators will step up -- that's how the earth balances things after all.

Ultimately, dealing with this problem would exact a high cost on bigAgro, and we simply can't endanger the economy.

Heads back in the sand, people. Now.

[RunningMn9]

To the surprise of no one, I'm going to say I'm skeptical that all animal life is about to die off. This is a good one because the bee is dying off so quickly that we may soon know whether I am wrong or not.

I assume you guys are pulling for me.

Well - all I know is that we went from assload of bees to no bees in the span of a year or two. And I mean NO bees. None. In the southwest, they have to foster africanized bees because there are no more european bees.

[Kadoth Nodens]

Note to self: Invent internal combustion engine that emits pollen and create race of ten foot long indestrucatable super-bees.

And investigate rumors of local Springfieldian with giant sugar pile in yard.

[Malachite]

Maybe someone should tell the 100s of bees in my front yard that seem to really dig the Mexican heather that we planted.

You probably go to bed with a full belly every night too, right? We couldn't expect you to believe that sometimes things are different outside of the 50 mile radius you probably spend 99% of your time in.

Shhhh...go back to sleep. Everything is ok. I promise.

Well, we don't KNOW that anything we are doing is causing this. After all, there have been bee die-offs in the past. Plus, if all the bees die other pollinators will step up -- that's how the earth balances things after all.

Ultimately, dealing with this problem would exact a high cost on bigAgro, and we simply can't endanger the economy.

Heads back in the sand, people. Now.

Excellently played!

[LordMortis]

Maybe someone should tell the 100s of bees in my front yard that seem to really dig the Mexican heather that we planted.

You probably go to bed with a full belly every night too, right? We couldn't expect you to believe that sometimes things are different outside of the 50 mile radius you probably spend 99% of your time in.

Shhhh...go back to sleep. Everything is ok. I promise.

Well, we don't KNOW that anything we are doing is causing this. After all, there have been bee die-offs in the past. Plus, if all the bees die other pollinators will step up -- that's how the earth balances things after all.

Ultimately, dealing with this problem would exact a high cost on bigAgro, and we simply can't endanger the economy.

Heads back in the sand, people. Now.

I don't know. I just thought the piece was interesting.

I would seem to me that honey bees had been dying since long before GE and MegaFarming took over. I would also seem that things are still getting pollenated.

But the mystery death of bees still concerns me.

My worry for pollenization if it comes to that is that the killer bees and such often take the nectar from plants without a wealth pollen spreading. That was the big concern from way back when.

[Poleaxe]

To the surprise of no one, I'm going to say I'm skeptical that all animal life is about to die off. This is a good one because the bee is dying off so quickly that we may soon know whether I am wrong or not.

I assume you guys are pulling for me.

Well - all I know is that we went from assload of bees to no bees in the span of a year or two. And I mean NO bees. None. In the southwest, they have to foster africanized bees because there are no more european bees.

I guess we're about to see how mother nature rolls.

The link with GM crops in that story seems tenuous at best. And it's not so surprising that the link would be proposed in Europe as there is already established opposition to GM crops.

[LawBeefaroni]

To the surprise of no one, I'm going to say I'm skeptical that all animal life is about to die off. This is a good one because the bee is dying off so quickly that we may soon know whether I am wrong or not.

I assume you guys are pulling for me.

We might look at Einstein's quote as a bit melodramatic but no pollination from honey bees is a very bad thing. I don't see a worldwide die off in 4 years either. But at the very least, without a solution, I hope you like eating seaweed and algae and fighting lots of wars. An indifference to starvation would be helpful too.

Of course, I suppose we could send millions to work in the fields mastering the art of Gregor Mendel style paintbrush pollination.

[LordMortis]

I guess we're about to see how mother nature rolls.

The link with GM crops in that story seems tenuous at best. And it's not so surprising that the link would be proposed in Europe as there is already established opposition to GM crops.

Correlation is not causation but it's something we ought to think about before we get rid off all of the bees.

[Poleaxe]

I guess we're about to see how mother nature rolls.

The link with GM crops in that story seems tenuous at best. And it's not so surprising that the link would be proposed in Europe as there is already established opposition to GM crops.

Correlation is not causation but it's something we ought to think about before we get rid off all of the bees.

What evidance is there that we are getting rid of the bees?

[Kelric]

I guess we're about to see how mother nature rolls.

The link with GM crops in that story seems tenuous at best. And it's not so surprising that the link would be proposed in Europe as there is already established opposition to GM crops.

Correlation is not causation but it's something we ought to think about before we get rid off all of the bees.

What evidance is there that we are getting rid of the bees?

70% US East Coast die off, 60% US West Coast die off?

[Poleaxe]

To the surprise of no one, I'm going to say I'm skeptical that all animal life is about to die off. This is a good one because the bee is dying off so quickly that we may soon know whether I am wrong or not.

I assume you guys are pulling for me.

We might look at Einstein's quote as a bit melodramatic but no pollination from honey bees is a very bad thing. I don't see a worldwide die off in 4 years either. But at the very least, without a solution, I hope you like eating seaweed and algae and fighting lots of wars. An indifference to starvation would be helpful too.

Of course, I suppose we could send millions to work in the fields mastering the art of Gregor Mendel style paintbrush pollination.

So, I'm just keeping track here.

Reasons civilization is likely to collapse soon
Global Warming
Peak Oil
Death of the Honey Bees


I like to keep a list so I don't forget any of the impending doom possibilities. Am I missing anything?

[LordMortis]

I guess we're about to see how mother nature rolls.

The link with GM crops in that story seems tenuous at best. And it's not so surprising that the link would be proposed in Europe as there is already established opposition to GM crops.

Correlation is not causation but it's something we ought to think about before we get rid off all of the bees.

What evidance is there that we are getting rid of the bees?

70% US East Coast die off, 60% US West Coast die off?

And (according to the link) the die off severity at least in part correllates to the volume of GE MegaFarmed crops put in place in geographic regions.

[Poleaxe]

70% US East Coast die off, 60% US West Coast die off?

What evidance is there that we are getting rid of the bees?

[LawBeefaroni]

I guess we're about to see how mother nature rolls.

The link with GM crops in that story seems tenuous at best. And it's not so surprising that the link would be proposed in Europe as there is already established opposition to GM crops.

What would you propose instead? A natural cycle of the die-off of honeybees?

The article isn't heavy on science so it's not really useful as far as the cause. My understanding is that the GM angle has two major possibilities. One, the common doomsday scenario that is often touted, is that in addition to engineered genetic changes, unplanned and unobserved genetic changes are doing something horribly wrong. Another is a GM/herbicide combo. Some plants are engineered to survive herbicides that kill other plants and would otherwise kill them. Because of GM, they survive being sprayed. The herbicide then somehow interacts with the bees. EDIT: another related angle is GM insecticide. Where plants are engineered to produce their own insecticide. It's supposed to be safe for honey bees, but might not be.

There are also other valid possibilities that include parasites, non GM herbicides, other chemicals, climate, etc.

I read recently about a study done that revealed certain non-normal chemicals found in dead bees but I don't remember where. I do remember not being satisfied with the source but it's still worth considering.

[qp]

To the surprise of no one, I'm going to say I'm skeptical that all animal life is about to die off. This is a good one because the bee is dying off so quickly that we may soon know whether I am wrong or not.

I assume you guys are pulling for me.

We might look at Einstein's quote as a bit melodramatic but no pollination from honey bees is a very bad thing. I don't see a worldwide die off in 4 years either. But at the very least, without a solution, I hope you like eating seaweed and algae and fighting lots of wars. An indifference to starvation would be helpful too.

Of course, I suppose we could send millions to work in the fields mastering the art of Gregor Mendel style paintbrush pollination.

So, I'm just keeping track here.

Reasons civilization is likely to collapse soon
Global Warming
Peak Oil
Death of the Honey Bees


I like to keep a list so I don't forget any of the impending doom possibilities. Am I missing anything?

Asteroid impact!

[Kelric]

Reasons civilization is likely to collapse soon
Global Warming
Peak Oil
Death of the Honey Bees

I like to keep a list so I don't forget any of the impending doom possibilities. Am I missing anything?

Does Peak Water fall under Global Warming?

[Mr. Sparkle]

The figure is much lower in Germany - only 0.06 percent - and most of that occurs in the eastern states of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania and Brandenburg.

So his theory is that 0.06 percent of their crops are causing massive die offs of bees in completely different parts of the country?

That seems... ludicrous.

[LordMortis]

Reasons civilization is likely to collapse soon
Global Warming
Peak Oil
Death of the Honey Bees

I like to keep a list so I don't forget any of the impending doom possibilities. Am I missing anything?

Does Peak Water fall under Global Warming?

Religious and political difference causing the final total war.

[Poleaxe]

Asteroid impact!

Thanks!

Reasons civilization is likely to collapse soon
Global Warming
Peak Oil
Death of the Honey Bees
Asteroid Impact

[LordMortis]

The figure is much lower in Germany - only 0.06 percent - and most of that occurs in the eastern states of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania and Brandenburg.

So his theory is that 0.06 percent of their crops are causing massive die offs of bees in completely different parts of the country?

That seems... ludicrous.

The die off in Germany vary from 12 to 80% averaging at 25% for the country according to the link. It might be faulty assumption on my part but I'm going to assume the worst of the death tolls are in the eastern states.

Edit:

And I still want a baby polar bear

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/0,5538,20321,00.html

[LawBeefaroni]

To the surprise of no one, I'm going to say I'm skeptical that all animal life is about to die off. This is a good one because the bee is dying off so quickly that we may soon know whether I am wrong or not.

I assume you guys are pulling for me.

We might look at Einstein's quote as a bit melodramatic but no pollination from honey bees is a very bad thing. I don't see a worldwide die off in 4 years either. But at the very least, without a solution, I hope you like eating seaweed and algae and fighting lots of wars. An indifference to starvation would be helpful too.

Of course, I suppose we could send millions to work in the fields mastering the art of Gregor Mendel style paintbrush pollination.

So, I'm just keeping track here.

Reasons civilization is likely to collapse soon
Global Warming
Peak Oil
Death of the Honey Bees


I like to keep a list so I don't forget any of the impending doom possibilities. Am I missing anything?

At an alarmist man-made level:
Nuclear War
Biological pandemic
Grey goo scenario (nanotech)


At a statistically inevitable but not necessarily soon level (measure in geological time, thousands to millions of years):
The previously mentioned space rock impact
Supervolcano eruption
Cubs win the World Series

[Poleaxe]

I read recently about a study done that revealed certain non-normal chemicals found in dead bees but I don't remember where. I do remember not being satisfied with the source but it's still worth considering.

It is worth considering. So let's consider it rather than tar and feathering the industry before considering it.

Diseases happen. What would be the effect on humans from ebola or aids or malaria or bird flu without modern medicine? How many died from the 1918 flu pandemic? We shouldn't pretend that nature isn't capable of rocking the boat without our help.

[Debris]

Maybe someone should tell the 100s of bees in my front yard that seem to really dig the Mexican heather that we planted.

You probably go to bed with a full belly every night too, right? We couldn't expect you to believe that sometimes things are different outside of the 50 mile radius you probably spend 99% of your time in.

Shhhh...go back to sleep. Everything is ok. I promise.

Well, we don't KNOW that anything we are doing is causing this. After all, there have been bee die-offs in the past. Plus, if all the bees die other pollinators will step up -- that's how the earth balances things after all.

Ultimately, dealing with this problem would exact a high cost on bigAgro, and we simply can't endanger the economy.

Heads back in the sand, people. Now.

Excellently played!

Damn! You guys must shit diamonds from being so uptight! Do you really take yourselves so seriously?

Tell us, oh ecological watchmen of OO, what should hastily labeled, fat and happy, head-in-the-sand, myopic, big business advocates do about this supposed problem? Conserve Honey? Open up flop-hives for wayward bees? Invade Beeistan?

You can insult me all you want, but this rates very low on my list of cataclysmic world events to worry over. If all the bees die and the world dies off in 4 days, I'll be the first to step up and say that you were right and I was wrong. Until then, I only have so much worry to divvy out and this issue is very low on the list.

[Kelric]

Invade Beeistan?

Don't give Bush any ideas.

[LawBeefaroni]

I read recently about a study done that revealed certain non-normal chemicals found in dead bees but I don't remember where. I do remember not being satisfied with the source but it's still worth considering.

It is worth considering. So let's consider it rather than tar and feathering the industry before considering it.

Diseases happen. What would be the effect on humans from ebola or aids or malaria or bird flu without modern medicine? How many died from the 1918 flu pandemic? We shouldn't pretend that nature isn't capable of rocking the boat without our help.

I haven't made judgement yet. Where I'm considering most of the proposed causes, you're discounting them. That's all.


Sure modern medicine and science saves lives. No doubt. It may save our species sometime. We're but one species.

What caused the 1918 flu pandemic? What led to it's spread across continents and across oceans?

Some people were immune to the black plague. It is believed that their decendents are resistant to AIDS. Sickle Cell Anemia prevents malaria. Nature rocks the boat, nature sinks it sometimes. But for millions of years nature has always provided a lifeboat.

[Mr. Sparkle]

The figure is much lower in Germany - only 0.06 percent - and most of that occurs in the eastern states of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania and Brandenburg.

So his theory is that 0.06 percent of their crops are causing massive die offs of bees in completely different parts of the country?

That seems... ludicrous.

The die off in Germany vary from 12 to 80% averaging at 25% for the country according to the link. It might be faulty assumption on my part but I'm going to assume the worst of the death tolls are in the eastern states.

It is certainly a baseless assumption, though whether it is faulty I have no idea.

But looking at the wiki entry...

The vast majority of the colonies reported to be dying from CCD occur in locations where GM corn is not grown (at least in the United States), nor were bees from other areas outside of Pennsylvania reported to be significantly infected by Nosema, meaning that even if GM crops were involved in this fashion, it could only potentially account for a very small number of the reported cases of CCD.

That has no citation, so I have no idea of its veracity... but it seems like an easy thing for somebody to check who has access to that kind of data.

Obviously, more research needs to be done... but screaming about GM's as the cause seems to be pretty unfounded.

[LawBeefaroni]

Damn! You guys must shit diamonds from being so uptight! Do you really take yourselves so seriously?

Tell us, oh ecological watchmen of OO, what should hastily labeled, fat and happy, head-in-the-sand, myopic, big business advocates do about this supposed problem? Conserve Honey? Open up flop-hives for wayward bees? Invade Beeistan?

You can insult me all you want, but this rates very low on my list of cataclysmic world events to worry over. If all the bees die and the world dies off in 4 days, I'll be the first to step up and say that you were right and I was wrong. Until then, I only have so much worry to divvy out and this issue is very low on the list.

I don't think anyone is saying you have to do anything. There are people working on it, thankfully. Here we just talk about it. I don't think the cause has been proven to anyone's satisfaction.

[RunningMn9]

Obviously, more research needs to be done... but screaming about GM's as the cause seems to be pretty unfounded.

Yeah - I didn't get how they were making that connection. I always blamed the wasp/hornet invaders that replaced the honey bee populations in my area.

[LordMortis]

It is certainly a baseless assumption, though whether it is faulty I have no idea.

Mine. Yours. Or all of the above?