Vaccine-autism how long will this crap be taken seriously

[Daehawk]

I know nothing about autism. I always thought it was a mental disease. Are they saying its a physical anomaly now by saying vaccines cause it or bring it out?

[ChrisGwinn]

I know nothing about autism. I always thought it was a mental disease. Are they saying its a physical anomaly now by saying vaccines cause it or bring it out?

Many, many mental diseases have a physical basis. How would drugs for mental illness work if they didn't?

[Zarathud]

I don't see the link between vaccinations and autism as an all-or-nothing debate.

My wife has been reviewing the medical research and is concerned about how the Measles Mumps Rubella (MMR) vaccine has no real reason to be bundled together rather than being taken individually. That's a lot to put into a child's system at the same time, and the counter argument seems to be that the combined MMR vaccine reduces the risk of "delayed or missed" immunizations. That's not very compellling.

If we're able to get the shots individually, I think it makes sense to reduce the strain on our child's immune system aside from the potential link to autism. We can be inconvenienced and pay a little more in co-payments on the doctor visits.

[Malachite]

I know nothing about autism. I always thought it was a mental disease. Are they saying its a physical anomaly now by saying vaccines cause it or bring it out?

As Chris said, many (most? all?) "mental diseases" are known or suspected to have an anatomical and/or biochemical basis. Definitely, any disease that responds to medical treatment must have some physical basis in order for the medicine or surgery to have an effect.

In any event, autism is classified as a developmental disorder, not a "mental disease". In fact, I recently learned that the State of California classifies autism as a medical disability as opposed to a learning disability, which apparently makes a difference in how often my son needs to be reevaluated to determine his ongoing eligibility for therapy and educational assistance.

Ok, I thought it was an interesting distinction...

[Blackhawk]

Autism is (as best we know) a genetic abnormality. It isn't entirely clear whether it is entirely caused by genes or whether a mutation is involved. The current belief is that whatever causes the physical or physiological variation called autism is present shortly after conception. It isn't a disease that you can catch and then cure - it is a fundamental difference in how the brain works.

[LawBeefaroni]

We can be inconvenienced and pay a little more in co-payments on the doctor visits.

Sure, you can be inconvenienced. But then your employer/insurer will also be paying the difference every time (in this case for 2 additional visits). That's why we have MMR (and now MMRV) combo immuinzations. That and because even if you did them all in one office visit, it's easier to poke a kid with a needle once rather than 3 or 4 times, especially when they're expecting it after the first one.

EDIT: Math:
Say the office visit allowable is $65. Single immunization is $15, MMR is $45.
Case 1, MMR: 1 office visit, 1 shot = $110. Copay: $20. Insurer pays $90.

Case 2, single shots: 3 office visits, 3 shots = $240. Copay: $20x3=$60. Insurer pays $180.

Now that doesn't count possible additional expenses from complications from getting blasted by the MMR shot. But Merck (or whoever makes it) promises us there aren't complications, so don't worry about it.

[triggercut]

Now can we retire the vaccine/autism link silliness and get down to the real science of helping children and families who need it?

[hitbyambulance]

or maybe we can fixate on ultrasounds now...

[Crux]

I think the problems with this phenomenon (that of people blaming vaccines for autism) really comes down to a couple of factors.

1) Lots more kids are being diagnosed with autism now due to a widening of what is considered to autism.

And then the big thing:

2) Autism isn't diagnosable by a simple blood test. Kids don't randomly get tested for autism. The testing is done after they start to display developmental issues regarding behavior in some fashion (object fixation, repetitive actions, speech development, social development etc etc). People only note these developmental issues when their kids start missing 'milestones' we are given for roughly when our child should start to do certain things (such as crawling at 6-10 months, social smiling at x weeks). When your baby is getting vaccines every few months, inevitably most children diagnosed as autistic will miss a milestone in relatively close proximity to a vaccine. Ignorant parents, not willing to consider the possibility that their genes might be the problem, look for something to blame, and vaccines are an easy scapegoat.

[Blackhawk]

1) Lots more kids are being diagnosed with autism now due to a widening of what is considered to autism.

That is one of the reasons. The second is that parents, family physicians and educators are now being educated about what to look for, so a lot fewer 'borderline' cases are being missed. Cases like mine would have been (were) missed in the 1970s and '80s. Today they are caught and treated, adding numbers to the statistics that were actually present all along.

[tjg_marantz]

Jenny Mcarthy must be pissed. I'm not making light of her son's condition but I wonder if she'll completely ignore this or do a little research on her own.

[RunningMn9]

or maybe we can fixate on ultrasounds now...

From this link:

Many people believed that a correlation existed between the triple vaccine MMR (mumps, measles and rubella) and ASD. However, a large, retrospective epidemiological study of more than 30,000 children in Japan between 1988 and 1996 found that the autism rate continued to climb after the vaccine was withdrawn.(36) Those results were no different than the outcome of a 1999 study published in The Lancet, that showed no corresponding jump in autism in the UK after the introduction of the MMR vaccine.(37)

Is this referring to the study in the previous link?

[triggercut]

or maybe we can fixate on ultrasounds now...

From this link:

Many people believed that a correlation existed between the triple vaccine MMR (mumps, measles and rubella) and ASD. However, a large, retrospective epidemiological study of more than 30,000 children in Japan between 1988 and 1996 found that the autism rate continued to climb after the vaccine was withdrawn.(36) Those results were no different than the outcome of a 1999 study published in The Lancet, that showed no corresponding jump in autism in the UK after the introduction of the MMR vaccine.(37)

Is this referring to the study in the previous link?

Yep. That Lancet study is the one that has now revealed to have been based on falsified data.

[The Preacher]

Jenny Mcarthy must be pissed. I'm not making light of her son's condition but I wonder if she'll completely ignore this or do a little research on her own.

Not at all. He was cured!

But I'm not completely mocking MMRcarthy. I have actually heard that specialized diet can help autistic children.

[RunningMn9]

Yep. That Lancet study is the one that has now revealed to have been based on falsified data.

Then I'm confoozled. Your link suggested that the doctor falsified data in the Lancet study to CREATE the link. The second link seemed to take it as fact that the Lancet study REFUTED the link. How can it be both?

[RunningMn9]

I have actually heard that specialized diet can help autistic children.

That's the main problem with a condition that is centered around a collection of symptoms, rather than a causative agent.

[The Preacher]

I have actually heard that specialized diet can help autistic children.

That's the main problem with a condition that is centered around a collection of symptoms, rather than a causative agent.

No question. Did little McCarthy suffer from a variant of celiac or was it autism or something else entirely, all of which may have the same set of symptoms? I also find my mind a little bent around the issue of depression in the same way. Doctors forced to shoot in the dark with what they have.

[triggercut]

Yep. That Lancet study is the one that has now revealed to have been based on falsified data.

Then I'm confoozled. Your link suggested that the doctor falsified data in the Lancet study to CREATE the link. The second link seemed to take it as fact that the Lancet study REFUTED the link. How can it be both?

It can't. Sorry the study with the fixed data is from a different Lancet date actually.

[Eightball]

or maybe we can fixate on ultrasounds now...

From this link:

Many people believed that a correlation existed between the triple vaccine MMR (mumps, measles and rubella) and ASD. However, a large, retrospective epidemiological study of more than 30,000 children in Japan between 1988 and 1996 found that the autism rate continued to climb after the vaccine was withdrawn.(36) Those results were no different than the outcome of a 1999 study published in The Lancet, that showed no corresponding jump in autism in the UK after the introduction of the MMR vaccine.(37)

Is this referring to the study in the previous link?

No. The study in the previous link was from 1998.

The research was published in February 1998 in an article in The Lancet medical journal.

[AWS260]

The U.S. "Vaccine Court" has dismissed the three cases before it alleging a link between vaccines and autism. A good overview and excerpts from the ruling are available at Neurodiversity.

[LawBeefaroni]

Jim Carrey weighs in:

Recently, I was amazed to hear a commentary by CNN's Campbell Brown on the controversial vaccine issue. After a ruling by the 'special vaccine court' saying the Measles, Mumps, Rubella shot wasn't found to be responsible for the plaintiffs' autism, she and others in the media began making assertions that the judgment was in, and vaccines had been proven safe. No one would be more relieved than Jenny and I if that were true. But with all due respect to Ms. Brown, a ruling against causation in three cases out of more than 5000 hardly proves that other children won't be adversely affected by the MMR, let alone that all vaccines are safe. This is a huge leap of logic by anyone's standards. Not everyone gets cancer from smoking, but cigarettes do cause cancer. After 100 years and many rulings in favor of the tobacco companies, we finally figured that out.

...

In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers. Now more than ever, we must resist the urge to close this book before it's been written. The anecdotal evidence of millions of parents who've seen their totally normal kids regress into sickness and mental isolation after a trip to the pediatrician's office must be seriously considered. The legitimate concern they and many in the scientific community have that environmental toxins, including those found in vaccines, may be causing autism and other disorders (Aspergers, ADD, ADHD), cannot be dissuaded by a show of sympathy and a friendly invitation to look for the 'real' cause of autism anywhere but within the lucrative vaccine program.

Etc, etc. Very difficult read.

Note that the 3 out of 5,000 cases he mentions were 3 hand chosen by the antivacs as their best examples.

Solid rebuttal here at LBRB.

[Eightball]

In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers.

Good lord. Yes, they obviously all have the same agenda; making autistic children...

[The Preacher]

In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers.

Good lord. Yes, they obviously all have the same agenda; making autistic children...

And they co-opted the NIH, too, the bastards.

[$iljanus]

In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers.

Good lord. Yes, they obviously all have the same agenda; making autistic children...

And they co-opted the NIH, too, the bastards.

I know not what you speak of. Do not be alarmed by the gentlemen who will be at your door shortly.

[Mr. Fed]

Wow, he's staying in character!

[noxiousdog]

The anecdotal evidence of millions of parents who've seen their totally normal kids regress into sickness and mental isolation after a trip to the pediatrician's office

Eh?

[Smoove_B]

Perhaps it's a combination of the immune system being overstimulated by the administration of multiple vaccines, and then some sort of environmentally stimulated damage? Or maybe we're just diagnosing autism a hell of a lot better (the definition is constantly expanding), and we're a lot more sensitive to it?

I would love to reply to your quote from last year. I was just reading some back-of-the-napkin calculations from an immunologist that suggested the upper limit for multiple vaccinations would be 10,000. That is to say that a child's body could effectively immunologically respond to 10,000 vaccinations given at the same time. I was blown away by the math.

I am pretty sure the most our child had at once was 3...which is substantially less than 10,000.

Jenny McCarthy Body Count amuses me and I really wish the medical community at large would consider enlisting some ridiculous PR firm and get the right message out there.

[Eightball]

Perhaps it's a combination of the immune system being overstimulated by the administration of multiple vaccines, and then some sort of environmentally stimulated damage? Or maybe we're just diagnosing autism a hell of a lot better (the definition is constantly expanding), and we're a lot more sensitive to it?

I would love to reply to your quote from last year. I was just reading some back-of-the-napkin calculations from an immunologist that suggested the upper limit for multiple vaccinations would be 10,000. That is to say that a child's body could effectively immunologically respond to 10,000 vaccinations given at the same time. I was blown away by the math.

Yeah...I'm not surprised. I probably wasn't being clear; I didn't mean that that the body couldn't respond to multiple vaccines, I more meant that the increased stimulation from the administration of multiple vaccines may hyperstimulate the immune system into attacking things that are native to the body, and not foreign. I.e., it's creating a hyper-reactive system.

Jenny McCarthy Body Count amuses me

That is really freaking awesome.

[silverjon]

Something interesting related to that whole indigo/crystal whooptydo, which is not to say I take that seriously, but there is apparently some correlation between a diagnosis of autism in a child and subsequent diagnosis of AD(H)D in a parent. Both conditions are linked to some irregularity in the same gene, IIRC. The articles I found about this are buried somewhere in my email from 6-8 months ago....

But yeah, lots of people don't want to believe there's something wrong with their kid that they can't blame on anybody, or that they can't instead view as specialness (lahdidah special, not shortbus special).

Autism and ADD can both manifest with some really positive and amazing qualities, but there are also these huge challenging negatives. You can't just ignore all that. The overwhelming answer I've seen from the medical and psychological experts is "we still don't know exactly what causes this," but there's indication that a number of factors, genetic and environmental, can come into play. Controlling the environment is a big part of treatment, since that's... uh... something people can actually control.

Blah. Hot button topic.

[SpaceLord]

I play poker with a guy who blames his daughter's severe autism on a vaccine. It's sad to see, but I can sympathize with a distraught parent, they're not thinking clearly. They just know their baby will live with this forever.

[CGMark]

I have read some on the Indigo Children thing, and having recently had a daughter I read up on the MMR thing.

Mercury. Was and in some cases still IS being used in vaccinations for children and adults. The CDC knew that it was a risk, but felt the benefit of the vaccination outweighed the risk. Which happens A LOT with drugs.

Almost all companies removed the mercury ( which was being used as a preservative) from their vaccinations. You can check around on line and find a small list of about 4 or 5 that still use it. I believe none of which were used for children anymore.

As for Jenny McCartthy, I dont know her full story. I do know that her child was diagnosed with autism early on, and nothing that the doctors were telling her or doing was helping. She simply switched his diet, or something along these lines and it helped I guess. I would be pretty angry too, if I had a problem and kept returning to the doctors who in turn pretty much told me A. there was no solution, or B. they really didnt know what they could do. Which is kind of where Autism sits. Sometimes doctors DONT listen.

GF's twins were born with skids, and it went un-diagnosed, she took them multiple times to hospitals and doctors telling them that something was wrong. It went until they both became so severly ill they were taken to UofM Hospital. Where they were FINALLY diagnosed with skids, and had bone marrow transplants. At this point they were both so sick, that only one made it. Doctors today are now to stuck on what a book tells them. We learned that in the hospital when Kaya was born. One nurse would tell us one thing, then another nurse would turn right around later and tell us that the hospital no longer does those things.

GF has a Aunt with a autistic child and they have him on a very special diet and he is able to function at a much higher level. So Who knows.

[craterus]

The anecdotal evidence of millions of parents who've seen their totally normal kids regress into sickness and mental isolation after a trip to the pediatrician's office

Eh?

Sounds pretty ridiculous right? Perfectly normal child one day and completely withdrawn the next.

Happened to a cousin of mine.

[Victoria Raverna]

In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers.

Good lord. Yes, they obviously all have the same agenda; making autistic children...

No. They all have the same agenda, to make sure people continue to use vaccines. Vaccine makers to make sure they keep making profit. AAP so that their members can keep making money from giving vaccines. CDC so that there are no outbreak caused by people stop giving vaccines to children.

[Isgrimnur]

In autism news, the geneticists are getting closer.

In the largest genetic studies yet of autism, a team from across the United States has pinpointed previously overlooked DNA that predisposes children to the disorder. The suspect DNA includes the first variant that might underlie a large percentage of autism cases. Although the work is unlikely to lead to new treatments anytime soon, it bolsters a leading theory about autism's biology and points to new avenues for research.
...
The second study yielded the first common variants for autism. They lie in a region of chromosome 5 that sits squarely between two genes that produce cell-adhesion molecules, which govern how neurons connect to each other. The variants don't raise risk all that much--about 20% for the strongest. But, Hakonarson says, the work is exciting for two reasons: 65% of kids in the study had that variant, compared with just under 60% in the control group--a difference that, across a population, is significant, he says. And even more important, the link with cell-adhesion molecules firms up suspicions that in autism, "nerves don't connect normally or break down."

The CNV study turned up nine repeated or deleted regions, some of which had been pinpointed previously. Four of the CNVs were in genes that belong to the ubiquitin gene family, which helps control nerve connections. Children's Hospital of Philadelphia has applied for patents on the variants and hopes to help develop a test that incorporates these and other variants, mainly for siblings of children with autism. Both papers appear today in Nature.

[Captain Caveman]

In autism news, the geneticists are getting closer.

In the largest genetic studies yet of autism, a team from across the United States has pinpointed previously overlooked DNA that predisposes children to the disorder. The suspect DNA includes the first variant that might underlie a large percentage of autism cases. Although the work is unlikely to lead to new treatments anytime soon, it bolsters a leading theory about autism's biology and points to new avenues for research.
...
The second study yielded the first common variants for autism. They lie in a region of chromosome 5 that sits squarely between two genes that produce cell-adhesion molecules, which govern how neurons connect to each other. The variants don't raise risk all that much--about 20% for the strongest. But, Hakonarson says, the work is exciting for two reasons: 65% of kids in the study had that variant, compared with just under 60% in the control group--a difference that, across a population, is significant, he says. And even more important, the link with cell-adhesion molecules firms up suspicions that in autism, "nerves don't connect normally or break down."

The CNV study turned up nine repeated or deleted regions, some of which had been pinpointed previously. Four of the CNVs were in genes that belong to the ubiquitin gene family, which helps control nerve connections. Children's Hospital of Philadelphia has applied for patents on the variants and hopes to help develop a test that incorporates these and other variants, mainly for siblings of children with autism. Both papers appear today in Nature.

This is where I currently work. We just got a grant to study the behavioral profiles of the kids that have this genetic variant-- are they more socially impaired? Are there behavioral characteristics that differentiate them from children with autism who do not share the variant? We're working with Dr. Hakonarson to test the kids who were involved in his study.

[Turtle]

Go science!

Er, well, just realize people that things like this take time, a lot of experimentation, and more.

What it doesn't require is dumbass movie starts with no knowledge of the subject to start spouting off stupid uneducated tripe and misleading people. Did you know that Jenny Mcarthy, before she went on this anti-vaccination slant thought of her child as an "indigo child"? That's right, the mythology recently covered in the Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit game.

I feel for every parent who has a child afflicted by this is not the way, but if you really want to help, help the geneticists and doctors to find out the cause. After we find the cause, we can think about cures. Heck, stem cells are actually an area where treatment could be had, adding stem cells that aren't affected by the disorder to a brain (our brains do have stem cells that replace older/dead brain tissue over time, but at a slow rate) can really help.

Hell, this whole vaccine-autism BS actually has a body count in children who have died or are now significantly impaired because their dumbass parents trusted the news media and movie stars for info on how to really protect their children. Yes, that's right, there are rising numbers of cases of diseases that we were pretty much gone from developed countries. These diseases are nothing to laugh at.

[raydude]

In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers.

Good lord. Yes, they obviously all have the same agenda; making autistic children...

No. They all have the same agenda, to make sure people continue to use vaccines. Vaccine makers to make sure they keep making profit. AAP so that their members can keep making money from giving vaccines. CDC so that there are no outbreak caused by people stop giving vaccines to children.

I'm pretty sure Peds aren't in it for the money. In fact, because Peds pays crap (compared to specialized fields) and because you have to put up with parents and work long hours and basically have to band together as a pediatric association to survive, I'm definitely sure Peds aren't in it for the money.

[LawBeefaroni]

In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers.

Good lord. Yes, they obviously all have the same agenda; making autistic children...

No. They all have the same agenda, to make sure people continue to use vaccines. Vaccine makers to make sure they keep making profit. AAP so that their members can keep making money from giving vaccines. CDC so that there are no outbreak caused by people stop giving vaccines to children.

I'm pretty sure Peds aren't in it for the money. In fact, because Peds pays crap (compared to specialized fields) and because you have to put up with parents and work long hours and basically have to band together as a pediatric association to survive, I'm definitely sure Peds aren't in it for the money.

Peds can make money from vacs. I'm not saying they are pediatricians solely to make money, but many do make quite a bit from their practices.

[Eightball]

In this growing crisis, we cannot afford to blindly trumpet the agenda of the CDC, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) or vaccine makers.

Good lord. Yes, they obviously all have the same agenda; making autistic children...

No. They all have the same agenda, to make sure people continue to use vaccines. Vaccine makers to make sure they keep making profit. AAP so that their members can keep making money from giving vaccines. CDC so that there are no outbreak caused by people stop giving vaccines to children.

I'm pretty sure Peds aren't in it for the money. In fact, because Peds pays crap (compared to specialized fields) and because you have to put up with parents and work long hours and basically have to band together as a pediatric association to survive, I'm definitely sure Peds aren't in it for the money.

Peds can make money from vacs. I'm not saying they are pediatricians solely to make money, but many do make quite a bit from their practices.

I've heard otherwise, thanks to low reimbursement and high state taxes/fees. I've found a few examples, including this from the American Academy of Pediatrics...

Pediatricians spend tens of thousands of dollars and must frequently wait months before payment by payers (including Medicaid and private health plans). Often payments are below the cost of the vaccine. Gardasil, the new cervical cancer vaccine, costs physicians $360 for the recommended series of three doses per person. RotaTeq, the vaccine against diarrhea-causing rotavirus, costs $190 for the recommended three doses. Even the routine measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine costs $86 for the recommended two doses. In addition to the cost of the vaccine, additional costs of ordering, storing, inventory control, insurance and spoilage expenses need to be considered. However, payers are not recognizing these true costs. As a result, some pediatricians are unable to offer the newest vaccines.

About 85 percent of children in the U.S. are vaccinated at pediatricians’ offices. Because the current system threatens to greatly reduce or even eliminate the physician provider role, the AAP is concerned that this will fragment care causing many children not to get the comprehensive and preventive health care they need.

Results from a national survey of pediatricians conducted by the AAP in 2006 indicated that less than half of pediatricians think vaccine reimbursement from private and public health insurance is adequate. Typically, pediatricians are among the lowest-paid physicians.

“Pediatricians are not looking to make huge profits off vaccines,” said Jon R. Almquist, MD, FAAP, chair of the AAP Task Force on Immunization. “We’re in pediatrics because we care about children – but we shouldn’t be expected to subsidize the public health system and perform our jobs at a loss. We’ve carried this burden for long enough.”

And:

Providing childhood vaccines is increasingly a losing financial proposition for many private practices, researchers said.

There are wide variations in the cost of childhood vaccines and in private payer reimbursement, which often failed to even cover the cost, Gary L. Freed, M.D., M.P.H., of the University of Michigan Health System's Mott Children's Hospital here, and colleagues reported in the December issue of Pediatrics.

Expansion of the childhood immunization schedule increased the private sector cost to purchase a child's full course of vaccines from about $600 in 2000 to more than $1,500 in 2008, the researchers noted.

In an accompanying analysis of the impact of the cost/reimbursement disparity, the researchers reported that 11% of the 76 practices surveyed had seriously considered no longer providing all recommended vaccines to privately insured children.

Many family physicians had already stopped purchasing newer, more expensive vaccines such as the human papillomavirus (HPV) and meningococcal conjugate (MCV4) vaccines, the researchers said.

Although not an imminent threat, these factors along with recent inclusion of expensive new vaccines into the childhood immunization schedule have the potential to undermine the vaccine-delivery system, commented Stephen Berman, M.D., of the University of Colorado and Children's Hospital in Aurora, Co., in an accompanying editorial.

<snip>

Although the CDC annually negotiates with vaccine manufacturers for reduced rates on childhood vaccines used for children in the Medicaid program, much of the private sector data has been closely guarded as proprietary.

<snip>

If health plans don't respond to efforts to improve reimbursement, he said federal and state legislation should be considered. "Immunizing America's children is not simply a business decision that should be left to open markets so that health plans can maximize their profits."

<snip>

One practice reported that the vaccine purchase price exceeded the most common payer reimbursement for 15 of the 21 vaccines, the researchers said.

<snip>

But Dr. Berman said there were "disturbing implications" from the finding that payments for immunization services "often do not cover the full costs of immunizing children."

Among surveyed physicians, 49% reported that their practice had delayed the purchase of specific vaccines for financial reasons, most often HPV (67%) and MCV4 (34%).

With declining immunization profit margins over the course of the prior three years for 53% of respondents, more than one in five strongly felt that reimbursement for vaccine purchase was inadequate.

Overall, 21% of family practices and 5% of pediatric practices had seriously considered whether to stop all vaccination of privately insured children

Berman's paper, in part is located here. It's frightening to think that such a large % of practices were considering stopping vaccinating children because of cost...when all docs know how important it is.

[farley2k]

Peds can make money from vacs. I'm not saying they are pediatricians solely to make money, but many do make quite a bit from their practices.

I don't have a clue if that is true but it would require thousands of peds docs being willing to violate the hipocratic oath to make few bucks for this conspiracy theory to be true. I simply don't believe that.