Vaccine-autism how long will this crap be taken seriously

[El Guapo]

One reason I see for this is that the parents (particularly the mothers) have some strange desire to have a child with a disability. Maybe it is that they want to feel pitied or that they want some special treatment.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Without getting into whether or not autism is misdiagnosed or overdiagnosed, it would be such an infitesimally small number of parents who have a desire to have a child with a disability, and those parents would have to be majorly otherwise mentally disturbed, that it's not even worth discussing.

+1.

*Maybe* some parents would prefer to be able to medicate their child over difficult (and exhausting) parenting struggles. I'd be reluctant to say that, but it's at least plausible. But to think that people would want to have a child with a disability is insanity.

I can't even count the number of "Autism Awareness" ribbon magnets on minivans in my town. They are all right there, next to the "Soccer Mom"/"Lacrosse Mom" bumper stickers. They are bragging. I don't go around town with a OCD magnet on my car (which would have to be perfectly level and in line with the lines of the car).

I don't understand this. Why are you so sure that those magnets mean "I have an autistic child and am bragging about it"? Couldn't they be intended to spread awareness and generate donations? Pretty much any parent of a young child is going to be concerned about autism to some degree - worried that their kid might have/develop it, for one. If someone has a pink ribbon sticker on their car are they hoping that they'll get breast cancer or otherwise bragging about it?

Have you asked anyone with one of these autism magnets why they have that on their car?

[ImLawBoy]

I can't even count the number of "Autism Awareness" ribbon magnets on minivans in my town. They are all right there, next to the "Soccer Mom"/"Lacrosse Mom" bumper stickers. They are bragging.

I don't think you understand the mindset of a parent of a special needs child. They're not bragging about the child's issues, but they sometimes go to extremes to not hide their child's issues. They don't want their children to be ashamed of their issues, so when they have an autism awareness sticker (and not everyone who has one of those stickers has an autistic kid, by the way), it's modelling behavior to their kids that they shouldn't be ashamed.

[hepcat]

Autism magnets going on the list of things Jef....


...wait a second.

[Sectoid]

I can't even count the number of "Autism Awareness" ribbon magnets on minivans in my town. They are all right there, next to the "Soccer Mom"/"Lacrosse Mom" bumper stickers. They are bragging.

I don't think you understand the mindset of a parent of a special needs child. They're not bragging about the child's issues, but they sometimes go to extremes to not hide their child's issues. They don't want their children to be ashamed of their issues, so when they have an autism awareness sticker (and not everyone who has one of those stickers has an autistic kid, by the way), it's modelling behavior to their kids that they shouldn't be ashamed.

You obviously don't understand the point I am trying to make and I am not trying to discount the mindset of a parent with a child with real special needs. Also, even if it is a modeling behavior to their children they are still letting the world know of their plight. How do you know they asked the child, who is the one with the supposed problem after all if it is all right for them to put the magnet on the car? Maybe the child doesn't want the label on their primary means of transportation. Or to be reminded that they are different from everyone else. This is a lot like trying to argue that there is no such a thing as an altruistic act.
I am also not a moron, I do know that not all of those with the sticker/magnet on their car have an autistic child. It's not like they hand them to you with the diagnosis.

FWIW, El Guapo, my stepmother died of breast cancer and no I do not have a pink magnet on my car.

[El Guapo]

I'm just confused about the basis for your belief that people with autism magnets on their car are bragging, or that a significant number of people want an autism diagnosis. Maybe they put the autism magnet on their car to help their kid not be ashamed as ImLawBoy says. Maybe the kid doesn't want it on their car as you suggest. But you're making very specific claims about what's going on in the heads of people with autism magnets on their cars - do you have any specific information/data that suggests that's what's going on?

It just seems like there's a lot of generalizing about a large group of people without a lot of specific facts or data.

[noxiousdog]

I'm just confused about the basis for your belief that people with autism magnets on their car are bragging, or that a significant number of people want an autism diagnosis. Maybe they put the autism magnet on their car to help their kid not be ashamed as ImLawBoy says. Maybe the kid doesn't want it on their car as you suggest. But you're making very specific claims about what's going on in the heads of people with autism magnets on their cars - do you have any specific information/data that suggests that's what's going on?

It just seems like there's a lot of generalizing about a large group of people without a lot of specific facts or data.

My nephew is allegedly autistic. I'm very, very skeptical.

More likely, like ADHD, there is a broad range and the 'weak' end of the range really blurs the line and is able to incorporate a much greater number of people as any distribution is going to do.

For example, I have no doubt I could get a diagnosis of ADHD from a doctor. Maybe not every one. Maybe not 5 out of 10. But I'm sure I could get one without even faking the test. However, it's pretty obvious that while I could show up as a statistic, I'm not really affected by it to the point where I need special attention. My son certainly does.

Any time there is a blurry line, the entire system benefits by being more inclusive. That's more research, more doctors, more books, more medicine, more education and more help. It's very rare for a line to be moved to be less inclusive.

[AWS260]

It's important to recognize that when folks talk about "autism" these days, they're often referring to autism spectrum disorders, which encompasses a range of condition, with autism being the most severe. So when you hear that someone was diagnosed with autism, it's possible that they've been diagnosed with one of the less severe disorders on the spectrum.

[hepcat]

NPR just ran a show on the difficulties of defining mental disorders.

Ah, here it is.

Fascinating stuff. It's depressing to learn that some people use the definitions for mental disorders to try and play the system for more cash in the form of educational and health incentives. They look for loopholes in the definitions and so now the folks who write these definitions are having to view them with an eye towards "how can this be abused?".

[ImLawBoy]

I can't even count the number of "Autism Awareness" ribbon magnets on minivans in my town. They are all right there, next to the "Soccer Mom"/"Lacrosse Mom" bumper stickers. They are bragging.

I don't think you understand the mindset of a parent of a special needs child. They're not bragging about the child's issues, but they sometimes go to extremes to not hide their child's issues. They don't want their children to be ashamed of their issues, so when they have an autism awareness sticker (and not everyone who has one of those stickers has an autistic kid, by the way), it's modelling behavior to their kids that they shouldn't be ashamed.

You obviously don't understand the point I am trying to make and I am not trying to discount the mindset of a parent with a child with real special needs.

You obviously don't understand the point I am trying to make. You somehow seem to know that many of these kids don't really have autism (or fall on the autism spectrum somewhere - good point by AWS) because you think it's a bragging point for parents. That's without basis other than your pure speculation, and is insulting to all parents with kids who have special needs.

Also, even if it is a modeling behavior to their children they are still letting the world know of their plight. How do you know they asked the child, who is the one with the supposed problem after all if it is all right for them to put the magnet on the car? Maybe the child doesn't want the label on their primary means of transportation. Or to be reminded that they are different from everyone else.

That's not really germaine to the discussion. I never claimed that it was a good thing that the parents put the stickers on their cars, but I provided a more realistic explanation for why the parents would do so other than the ludicrous bragging rights that a parent gets for having an autistic child.

I am also not a moron, I do know that not all of those with the sticker/magnet on their car have an autistic child. It's not like they hand them to you with the diagnosis.

I never said you were a moron, nor have I implied it. I think you're dead wrong on a lot of what you're saying in this thread, but that doesn't mean I think you're a moron.

[Blackhawk]

That's part of it. Asperger's is one of the more common forms (it is what I have and what my youngest son has, my eldest having PDD-NOS, all medically diagnosed if that matters to you.) It was only added to the DSM-IV in '94. When I was a kid, there was no diagnosis for someone with my symptoms. I was just 'shy' or a 'loner'. No diagnosis, no treatment. All those people with symptoms right on the border between 'normal' and autism were there, they just weren't being diagnosed and weren't receiving any treatment. Now they are.

I'm fairly certain that there actually are more cases of autism than before, but a lot of the numbers you see in the statistics don't take into account that fewer kids with less severe and obvious symptoms are being missed.

Now, over-diagnosing? Sure. That happens, especially with conditions popular with the media. That said, I do know that had I been diagnosed when I was a child, there is a good chance I wouldn't have spent the last eight years on disability, and would have been spared a lot of pain and confusion. The over-diagnosis will settle down in time. In the end, though, it is better to over diagnose a few kids than to miss a lot of them and deny them the treatment that could give them a normal life rather than a miserable one.

[hepcat]

blackhawk, you have never once struck me as a person with a disability of any kind. just my two cents.

[Sectoid]

I'm just confused about the basis for your belief that people with autism magnets on their car are bragging, or that a significant number of people want an autism diagnosis. Maybe they put the autism magnet on their car to help their kid not be ashamed as ImLawBoy says. Maybe the kid doesn't want it on their car as you suggest. But you're making very specific claims about what's going on in the heads of people with autism magnets on their cars - do you have any specific information/data that suggests that's what's going on?

It just seems like there's a lot of generalizing about a large group of people without a lot of specific facts or data.

As I am confused as to your basis for them not bragging. Where is your proof that they are not?

[El Guapo]

I'm just confused about the basis for your belief that people with autism magnets on their car are bragging, or that a significant number of people want an autism diagnosis. Maybe they put the autism magnet on their car to help their kid not be ashamed as ImLawBoy says. Maybe the kid doesn't want it on their car as you suggest. But you're making very specific claims about what's going on in the heads of people with autism magnets on their cars - do you have any specific information/data that suggests that's what's going on?

It just seems like there's a lot of generalizing about a large group of people without a lot of specific facts or data.

As I am confused as to your basis for them not bragging. Where is your proof that they are not?

You're the one who is arguing that they have a particular mindset, i.e. that they are bragging. I don't know what they are thinking. They could be bragging about autism. They could think autism is the name of a band. They could - and I know that this is a crazy idea - be concerned about autism and want to generate more research into autism and ways to ameliorate it.

All I am asking is whether *you* have any actual information to back up *your* assertion that people with autism magnets are thinking one way versus another.

[Blackhawk]

blackhawk, you have never once struck me as a person with a disability of any kind. just my two cents.

That's because you interact with me in very controlled conditions.

[Kasey Chang]

Guys, guys... "Autism" no longer means what it used to be. Nowadays a LOT of minor symptoms can be lumped under "autism", including ADHD.

I believe that some doctors may be slapping "autism" labels onto children that just have some problems adjusting or coping, perhaps to drum up more business.

I believe some parents who love their children but can't help their children cope are self-diagnosing "autism" in their children, and brow-beating their doctors into giving the same diagnosis.

I believe some parents are hoping for miracle cures from Jenny McCarthy their their ilk so they don't have to work so hard.

Such are my beliefs.

[noxiousdog]

Guys, guys... "Autism" no longer means what it used to be. Nowadays a LOT of minor symptoms can be lumped under "autism", including ADHD.

No, it can't. At least not in anything i've read. Beyond being brain disorders they aren't similar at all.

[Mr. Fed]

1. I'm not the child psychologist --- that's my wife -- but it's my understanding that autism is now widely viewed as a broad spectrum of conditions and behaviors. I don't hear "he has autism"; I hear "he's on the spectrum" (which extends, as I understand it, from autism so profound it is nearly catatonic all the way to Asperger's Syndrome.)

2. I think it's ridiculous to suggest that parents are eager to have their kids diagnosed with being on the spectrum because it confers some sort of social status. That's confusing openness and solidarity with bragging.

3. I think that in light of the huge surge of kids diagnosed as on the spectrum -- like the huge surge of kids diagnosed with ADHD or ADD -- it's entirely legitimate to inquire about whether the change is influenced not by mass biological changes in kids but by changes in attitudes, diagnostic standards, awareness, and focus. The higher rate of diagnosis among the affluent tends to support that. It's possible that parents are more likely to seek a diagnosis, and doctors more likely to give a diagnosis, for behavior that in previous generations would have been seen as just quirky, "bookish", shy, boys being boys, etc. That's not at all the same as saying that parents are out looking for the A-label for status. However, it's possible that parents are increasingly conditioned to believe (and keep seeking doctors to confirm the belief) that behavior that deviates from a norm necessarily indicates something biologically "wrong" with the kid.

[silverjon]

There can be some similar symptoms, including things like anxiety-induced repetitive motion that can be very misleading, but the underlying causes aren't the same, nor are most of the coping mechanisms.

I did find an article a while ago that indicated there may be some chromosomal linkage, but it wasn't suggesting they were actually the same spectrum. Different genes on the same chromosome? I'd have to dig it up again.

[Smoove_B]

2. I think it's ridiculous to suggest that parents are eager to have their kids diagnosed with being on the spectrum because it confers some sort of social status. That's confusing openness and solidarity with bragging.

I think I get what Sectoid is saying, and I am pretty sure it's along these lines. It my impression that if your child has [Condition X], it's of great benefit to be able to identify and communicate with parents that (in theory) might be experiencing similar issues related to [Condition X]. I mean, if you go to any type of Mom (please don't) or parenting forum, there's usually dozens of subforums dedicated to "Parents of kids with flat heads" or "Parents of kids allergic to corn". The various permutations are mind-boggling. Given the aforementioned "spectrum" label now given with Autism, it's pretty easy to see why someone with an affected child (cousin, nephew, etc...) might want to publicly identify as such.

All that being said, my basic impression from my daughter's arguably small preschool size (N=20) is that every kid has something going on. Delayed speech. ADHD. The hens are always talking about something - and sometimes it does feel like there's some Braggadocchio going on, but I seriously cannot imagine someone really "boasting" about a kids psychological disorder. The exchanges I've heard are more along the lines of:

"My kid has an ear infection"
"Oh, well mine has a double ear infection"
"Yeah, well mine was just diagnosed with flat feet"
"That's terrible - my son has one leg that's just a little shorter than the other"
..etc...

[Victoria Raverna]

One reason I see for this is that the parents (particularly the mothers) have some strange desire to have a child with a disability. Maybe it is that they want to feel pitied or that they want some special treatment.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Without getting into whether or not autism is misdiagnosed or overdiagnosed, it would be such an infitesimally small number of parents who have a desire to have a child with a disability, and those parents would have to be majorly otherwise mentally disturbed, that it's not even worth discussing.

+1.

*Maybe* some parents would prefer to be able to medicate their child over difficult (and exhausting) parenting struggles. I'd be reluctant to say that, but it's at least plausible. But to think that people would want to have a child with a disability is insanity.

El Guapo,
It is insane. That is my point. I can't even count the number of "Autism Awareness" ribbon magnets on minivans in my town. They are all right there, next to the "Soccer Mom"/"Lacrosse Mom" bumper stickers. They are bragging. I don't go around town with a OCD magnet on my car (which would have to be perfectly level and in line with the lines of the car).
I am not against Autism awareness, far from it. However, since the number of Autism cases has increased so dramatically over recent years are the kids that are really suffering from it getting help?
This is turning into a bit of a Philosophical debate, but let me ask you something:
Do you feel better when you overcome adversity? Doesn't it feel good to get back up when you are knocked down?
Of course you do. It is human nature and it is also human nature to tell everyone how hard you had it and how you overcame it. It is why we root for the underdog. Part of our brain releases chemicals that make us feel better when something bad happens. Runners for example get a "runner's high" from endorphins. What the brain is actually telling you is that you should stop because you are doing serious damage here. There are some people who are addicted to these chemicals. It is why there are "cutters" and people who have unnecessary surgeries. Depression can also lead to the same problems. Which is why they are prescribed SSRIs. Serotonin gives you a feeling of well-being, which can snap you out of the depression cycle.
What could be worse than having a child with a serious problem? The catch here is that parents believe (whether intentional or not) that it is a controllable problem. With the added advantage of being able to control the child's behavior with medication and blame the disorder for what is wrong with their kids.
When ADD/ADHD first came about (yes I'm going back there), it was blamed for why a majority of kids could not do well in school. When it became an Axis I disorder (a decision I do not agree with), it became a legal reason to medicate your child and put them in "special" classes. How many kids actually have ADD/ADHD? I have no idea. Will you see improvement in a child's focus if you put them on Ritalin? In a majority of cases, yes. It affects the child chemically regardless of if they have the disorder or not.
So, in a the mind of a parent with an "overactive" child that they cannot deal with, why on earth would you not get the medication and the diagnosis?

I guess what I am trying to say, but am going off on tangents is that (at least around here) it has become the thing to have a child with Autism. I think it is horrible too and something that will mark the child for a long time.

I think your problem with them is because you're jealous because you don't have kid with autism. You're jealous that you don't belong to the "club". I guess you're the insane one.

You're seriously crazy if you think that parents want their children to be diagnosed with autism. Most parents with autism that I know of are pretty much in denial and claim that their children are normal until it is not possible to ignore the sign. I doubt any of them want their children to be diagnosed with autism so that they can brag that they have hard time raising their children but they managed it.

[Sectoid]

One reason I see for this is that the parents (particularly the mothers) have some strange desire to have a child with a disability. Maybe it is that they want to feel pitied or that they want some special treatment.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Without getting into whether or not autism is misdiagnosed or overdiagnosed, it would be such an infitesimally small number of parents who have a desire to have a child with a disability, and those parents would have to be majorly otherwise mentally disturbed, that it's not even worth discussing.

+1.

*Maybe* some parents would prefer to be able to medicate their child over difficult (and exhausting) parenting struggles. I'd be reluctant to say that, but it's at least plausible. But to think that people would want to have a child with a disability is insanity.

El Guapo,
It is insane. That is my point. I can't even count the number of "Autism Awareness" ribbon magnets on minivans in my town. They are all right there, next to the "Soccer Mom"/"Lacrosse Mom" bumper stickers. They are bragging. I don't go around town with a OCD magnet on my car (which would have to be perfectly level and in line with the lines of the car).
I am not against Autism awareness, far from it. However, since the number of Autism cases has increased so dramatically over recent years are the kids that are really suffering from it getting help?
This is turning into a bit of a Philosophical debate, but let me ask you something:
Do you feel better when you overcome adversity? Doesn't it feel good to get back up when you are knocked down?
Of course you do. It is human nature and it is also human nature to tell everyone how hard you had it and how you overcame it. It is why we root for the underdog. Part of our brain releases chemicals that make us feel better when something bad happens. Runners for example get a "runner's high" from endorphins. What the brain is actually telling you is that you should stop because you are doing serious damage here. There are some people who are addicted to these chemicals. It is why there are "cutters" and people who have unnecessary surgeries. Depression can also lead to the same problems. Which is why they are prescribed SSRIs. Serotonin gives you a feeling of well-being, which can snap you out of the depression cycle.
What could be worse than having a child with a serious problem? The catch here is that parents believe (whether intentional or not) that it is a controllable problem. With the added advantage of being able to control the child's behavior with medication and blame the disorder for what is wrong with their kids.
When ADD/ADHD first came about (yes I'm going back there), it was blamed for why a majority of kids could not do well in school. When it became an Axis I disorder (a decision I do not agree with), it became a legal reason to medicate your child and put them in "special" classes. How many kids actually have ADD/ADHD? I have no idea. Will you see improvement in a child's focus if you put them on Ritalin? In a majority of cases, yes. It affects the child chemically regardless of if they have the disorder or not.
So, in a the mind of a parent with an "overactive" child that they cannot deal with, why on earth would you not get the medication and the diagnosis?

I guess what I am trying to say, but am going off on tangents is that (at least around here) it has become the thing to have a child with Autism. I think it is horrible too and something that will mark the child for a long time.

I think your problem with them is because you're jealous because you don't have kid with autism. You're jealous that you don't belong to the "club". I guess you're the insane one.

You're seriously crazy if you think that parents want their children to be diagnosed with autism. Most parents with autism that I know of are pretty much in denial and claim that their children are normal until it is not possible to ignore the sign. I doubt any of them want their children to be diagnosed with autism so that they can brag that they have hard time raising their children but they managed it.

I seriously disagree with you and I've come to the conclusion that none of you have any idea how crazy people are where I live (I'll include myself in that statement). I have a friend, and his wife is this way. She has 4 kids, 2 of which are twins. Twins being twins they are a little weird. They talk amongst themselves a lot which is normal for twins. If I had to live with someone the same age as me, that went to the same school as me, even the same class as me, I'd talk to them a lot too. As a result, she claims they have social interaction problems, are autistic and has gone through the trouble of pulling them out of school, not once, but twice. They have been home-schooled for a few years, then went to a normal school, then were home-schooled again and are now in a normal school again. Seriously, if I were home schooled with pretty much no one to talk to but my siblings, I'd have social problems too. There is nothing wrong with the twins. They are quite bright, have no problem talking to me, playing games with their siblings and some other friends, etc. I also have another friend who's wife claims their son is autistic. Is he social awkward? Yes, but no more than his father, who is doing quite well for himself. Again, he is a smart, albeit quirky, kid. Does that mean he should be labeled as "special needs" and put into a "special" school that will not teach him to be social, because it is chock full of kids with real problems mostly because the wife needs attention?
There are a lot of legitimate cases out there. I am not denying that. There are also parents who have it hard because they have to raise a child or children with autism. I am not denying that either. What I am saying is that, like the ADD/ADHD epidemic that seemed to sweep the nation a little while ago. Autism seems to be the new scape goat that parents (at least the ones around here) are clinging to. Part of the problem is that no one will tell these parents that there is nothing wrong with their children. It is in the doctor's or therapist's best interest for whoever walks in their door to have some sort of problem and to be fair we all have our share of problems. Kids will behave odd or just downright wrong now and again, but slapping a label on them (whether it be autism or ADD/ADHD) for the sake of the parents is not fair. It's not fair to the kids who will have to live under the stigma of having a disorder and it is not fair to people with a legitimate disorder.
Maybe I was a bit harsh in saying that they want a child to have a disorder and maybe you guys are right in that they are looking for some sort of explanation. The problem may be that there is no explanation. Their kids are just being kids.

[Kasey Chang]

Somewhat related... PBS "Need to Know" had a segment just aired on use of Psychotropic drugs on foster kids, and the vast consensus is kids are over-prescribed and basically turned them into drugged zombies.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/he ... dren/6232/" target="_blank

How's this related? Some critics said the drugs are prescribed because parents demand "action now!" They want results now, instead of weeks and months later after many therapy sessions to confirm the diagnosis. Treatment, instead of diagnosis. Also, Medicaid pays drug prescriptions better than the slower therapy sessions. If Medicaid does it, so does all the other insurance companies.

[Sectoid]

Somewhat related... PBS "Need to Know" had a segment just aired on use of Psychotropic drugs on foster kids, and the vast consensus is kids are over-prescribed and basically turned them into drugged zombies.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/need-to-know/he ... dren/6232/" target="_blank

How's this related? Some critics said the drugs are prescribed because parents demand "action now!" They want results now, instead of weeks and months later after many therapy sessions to confirm the diagnosis. Treatment, instead of diagnosis. Also, Medicaid pays drug prescriptions better than the slower therapy sessions. If Medicaid does it, so does all the other insurance companies.

This is relevant. See, it is impatient parents who demand "action now!" This is what I am saying. Part of the reason for therapy is that it will help to diagnose exactly what the problem is. A 30 minute visit with a psychiatrist should not determine what the problem (if any) is. Unfortunately, in this prescribe-and-see-what-happens world we live in, this is exactly what happens.

[Grifman]

The hens . . .

Heh

[hepcat]

This is relevant. See, it is impatient parents who demand "action now!" This is what I am saying.

well...NOW you are.

[Sectoid]

This is relevant. See, it is impatient parents who demand "action now!" This is what I am saying.

well...NOW you are.

True...

[LawBeefaroni]

The Institute of Medicine just released a report entitled Adverse Effects of Vaccines: Evidence and Causality.

Using epidemiologic and mechanistic evidence, the committee developed 158 causality conclusions and assigned each relationship between a vaccine and an adverse health problem to one of four categories of causation:

• Evidence convincingly supports a causal relationship
• Evidence favors acceptance of a causal relationship
• Evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship
• Evidence is inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship

The committee finds that evidence convincingly supports a causal relationship between some vaccines and some adverse events—such as MMR, varicella zoster, influenza, hepatitis B, meningococcal, and tetanus-containing vaccines linked to anaphylaxis. Additionally, evidence favors rejection of five vaccine-adverse event relationships, including MMR vaccine and autism and inactivated influenza vaccine and asthma episodes. However, for the majority of cases (135 vaccine-adverse event pairs), the evidence was inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship. Overall, the committee concludes that few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines.

The report brief is here.

[stessier]

Good news - Jenny McCarthy is going to be a new host on The View.

[Captain Caveman]

So endangering public health isn't met with any negative consequences but instead is rewarded. As long as while doing so one significantly increases one's profile and generates buckets of cash, science and health can go fuck itself.

[Kasey Chang]

Never let entertainers and legislators near science. They always screw up somehow (even if their heart is probably in the right place).

There was a skeptoid.com episode on legislature and science not too long ago. Worth a listen to, when legislators tried to legislate science.

[Smoove_B]

Well hopefully it gives her plenty of time to talk about how her son was cured of Autism never had it in the first place.

[LawBeefaroni]

I like this headline:

Anti-Vaccine Evangelist Jenny McCarthy Is the New Elisabeth Hasselbeck

"I don't watch The View, but I do watch the world of disability, and I know the price that we pay when dangerous conspiracy theories spread," warned David M. Perry in The Atlantic about speculation that McCarthy could become a daily voice with a huge platform.

McCarthy will fill the seat vacated rather abruptly by The View's resident conservative Elisabeth Hasselbeck, who took a job at the always absurd Fox & Friends. While ABC didn't necessarily pull in a token Republican, it did land a passionate blonde who's used to courting controversy. With Walters and co-host Joy Behar both scheduled to leave The View soon, McCarthy — whose public persona in recent years revolves entirely around one issue about which she is not only wrong but potentially malignant — represents a curious start to this new era.

[LawBeefaroni]

Well hopefully it gives her plenty of time to talk about how her son was cured of Autism never had it in the first place.

Was that before or after he was/n't a Crystal Child and she was/n't an Indigo Mom?

At least it appears that the kid is finally properly diagnosed.

[Chrisoc13]

Ugh makes me sick that she will have a bigger platform to spread this nonsense. Endangering people everywhere with her ridiculous ideas.

-

[Daehawk]

When she has children die, become paralyzed, have heart damage, or a mired of things happen to them due to not getting vaccines then maybe she will change her tune.

[Kraken]

Does Jenny McCarthy have a talent or career that justifies her celebrity apart from being the vaccine nut?

[RuperT]

Well, it's possible she's gotten her head around the facts somewhat, so I'll be interested to see what they do with it. I always thought Oprah could've done a lot more on the vaccine debate (and maybe she did, for all I know).
So, yeah, she'll cash in again on the redemption arc, but maybe it'll do some good In the long run.
Kraken: she's pretty, in a feral Barbie way. Playmate of the Year '93 or so, parlayed to TV

[Kraken]

Kraken: she's pretty, in a feral Barbie way. Playmate of the Year '93 or so, parlayed to TV

I know who she used to be 20 years ago. I'm not aware that she has anything else going for her except being controversial on this one topic...so her schtick is about being relevant in a celebrity way. Facts are beside the point.

[silverjon]

She did some magazine ads for shoes that depicted her sitting on a toilet. This is the thing I remember most about Jenny McCarthy before she became the spokesperson for stupid. And bless the internet, here's a paper somebody wrote about it, complete with reproductions of the ads in question.
http://it.stlawu.edu/~global/glossary/j ... oilet.html" target="_blank

[Blackhawk]

Kraken: she's pretty, in a feral Barbie way. Playmate of the Year '93 or so, parlayed to TV

I know who she used to be 20 years ago. I'm not aware that she has anything else going for her except being controversial on this one topic...so her schtick is about being relevant in a celebrity way. Facts are beside the point.

She's controversial the way Westboro is controversial: Batshit insane.