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How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Isgrimnur » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:33 pm

That sucks.

Sweet talk the manager into signing on, then you have top cover. My boss is already on board with it. Of course, he's taking the whole day to go camping over the holiday weekend.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:35 pm

The Meal wrote:FYI, when future folks are looking for posts they thought they made in this thread, it turns you you really are looking for the posts you (accidentally?) placed in the Random Randomness thread on page 518. You're welcome!
Not so much an accident as commiseration/support.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:52 pm

BusInsider

Enlarge Image
We made a map that shows the most overrepresented job in each state, among jobs with at least 1,000 people employed, using the Bureau of Labor Statistics' recently released May 2015 "Occupational Employment Statistics." Each state has far more of these jobs per capita than the nation as a whole.
If you want laws about strange people in your bathrooms, I guess Missouri is the best place to start. And are people in NJ barred from shampooing themselves like they are from pumping their own gas?
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:58 pm

March Unemployment - 5.0% (0.1%)

>= Age 25 by education level
CategoryPercentChangeYOY Change
Less than a high school diploma8.20.01.2
High school graduates, no college5.80.00.1
Some college or associate degree4.30.30.6
Bachelor's degree and higher2.60.10.2
Table A-1 - Unemployment Rate Ages 16-19 - 15.4% (0.1, 1.6 YOY)

Table A-11 - Reasons for unemployment
Job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs2.6
Job leavers0.5
Reentrants1.5
New entrants0.4
Table A-12 - Unemployed persons by duration of unemployment
WeeksChangeYOY Change
Average Duration29.10.12.2
Median Duration12.71.00.5
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by stessier » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:42 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:BusInsider

Enlarge Image
We made a map that shows the most overrepresented job in each state, among jobs with at least 1,000 people employed, using the Bureau of Labor Statistics' recently released May 2015 "Occupational Employment Statistics." Each state has far more of these jobs per capita than the nation as a whole.
If you want laws about strange people in your bathrooms, I guess Missouri is the best place to start. And are people in NJ barred from shampooing themselves like they are from pumping their own gas?
Minnesota and Wisconsin surprise me, but the rest makes sense.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Isgrimnur » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:52 pm

Minn (PDF)
Of the state’s top 20 manufacturing firms, seven are food manufacturers and distributors. These seven earn $114 billion of revenue each year — 65 percent of all sales made by the state’s leading firms.

The seventh largest farm state in the U.S., with $13 billion in farm sales, Minnesota has an ideal growing climate for a variety of farm products, and holds an enviable position in global trade due to its financial prowess and access to transportation.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by stessier » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:26 pm

Having lived near the state and driven over a decent portion, it still surprises me. :)

I mean, corn I would get (and maybe soy beans) but you don't see much else. And the growing season is soooooooo short!
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:40 am

I don't know how much I agree but

http://www.nextavenue.org/how-the-dream ... nightmare/

I do wonder how people do it and assume, as a nation, we're headed for disaster. I make a great wage by most standards while I live an upper lower class lifestyle in an attempt to live within my means. I have no spouse and no children to support and I'm tucking away everything I can toward retirement. Even so, I'll retire later than my industrial blue collar worker father supporting a family of 7 did and I won't have any of his benefits, even after tucking the maximum amount of my wage into retirement, between IRA and 401k, a total some people barely make in a year.

I don't know how ally'all do it.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by coopasonic » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:13 pm

LordMortis wrote:I don't know how ally'all do it.
How long have you been tucking it all away? I've been doing it for 15 years and made a very timely move with my 401k during the recession that probably doubled what I would have otherwise. My 401k, which is the only retirement savings I have, is at about 6x my salary.... and I am still wondering, with 20+ working years to go (I'll be 44 next month), if I will ever be able to retire comfortably.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Kraken » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:20 pm

LordMortis wrote:I don't know how much I agree but

http://www.nextavenue.org/how-the-dream ... nightmare/

I do wonder how people do it and assume, as a nation, we're headed for disaster. I make a great wage by most standards while I live an upper lower class lifestyle in an attempt to live within my means. I have no spouse and no children to support and I'm tucking away everything I can toward retirement. Even so, I'll retire later than my industrial blue collar worker father supporting a family of 7 did and I won't have any of his benefits, even after tucking the maximum amount of my wage into retirement, between IRA and 401k, a total some people barely make in a year.

I don't know how ally'all do it.
My old man was forced into "retirement" by disability, and he made some bad investments on the way, so my parents went through a few impoverished years before they won a lawsuit that left them comfortable through their late years. "Comfortable" means meeting modest living expenses, not playing golf in Florida all winter or anything like that.

Barring a health disaster, I expect to have a better retirement than that...although I won't be able to start it until age 67, which is a couple of years later than my parents' generation usually stopped working. Wife is under the impression that we're going to be traveling the world when we aren't splitting our time between two homes. I mostly let her believe that.

We do have the advantage of no heirs, so we intend to spend our savings down to zero. The trick will be dying at the same time that we do that. I expect to spend more lavishly in the early years while we're still healthy enough to enjoy it. No sense hoarding money just to pay doctors and care providers.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:32 pm

coopasonic wrote:
LordMortis wrote:I don't know how ally'all do it.
How long have you been tucking it all away? I've been doing it for 15 years and made a very timely move with my 401k during the recession that probably doubled what I would have otherwise. My 401k, which is the only retirement savings I have, is at about 6x my salary.... and I am still wondering, with 20+ working years to go (I'll be 44 next month), if I will ever be able to retire comfortably.
I've had a 401K for 17 years. What's gone into it has changed over the years. It started at 10% of my salary contributed solely by my employer, and I could not contribute anything. It has morphed over time, I think to 7% but I had to put in 3% to get that 7%. And nowadays, I think they put in 5% and over time I've slowly ratcheted up to max my contribution, I think I hit the max, maybe 3 years ago. Then I started working on Roth IRAs because I legally, I can. If they up the amount I can contribute to either I will adjust my contributions to max them out if I can.

My combined retirement savings is about 2.5 x's my annual salary and I think I way more of an aggressive saver than most people. I've not really gained anything over time with with the 401k. My choices for investment vehicles have been terrible and our company broker liaison is a joke but that wouldn't have mattered if they weren't. Until two years ago, I didn't even have a small idea how to look at investments or securities or mutual funds or anything. Even after these last two years of learning, I still understand very little.

I don't intend retire comfortably but my goal is retire with peace of mind that I'll continue my upper lower class existence without worry of how I'm going to get by.
Kraken wrote:We do have the advantage of no heirs, so we intend to spend our savings down to zero. The trick will be dying at the same time that we do that. I expect to spend more lavishly in the early years while we're still healthy enough to enjoy it. No sense hoarding money just to pay doctors and care providers.
Heh. I assume my health gives out well before I am prepared to retire. If I'm still employed at that time, well my at least my nieces and nephews will get a leg up toward their futures.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by stessier » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:48 pm

My division just announced 250 job losses worldwide. Quite unfortunate, although I don't expect to be effected.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:44 pm

Medicaid, not paying. The state, not paying. Agencies not accepting patient discharges because Medicaid and the state aren't paying. Patient stays in acute care (much higher expense) or goes home without recommended care and ends up getting reasmitted through the ER. Leading to higher costs which means the state and Medicaid are less likely to be able to pay.


Healthcare and pensions are going to break our economy.



In other news how 'bout that basic income? Might deserve its own thread but can't do that well on my phone.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Kraken » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:49 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: In other news how 'bout that basic income? Might deserve its own thread but can't do that well on my phone.
I like the idea very much and it has enjoyed support in both parties off and on over the decades. Of course it's not on the table in this political environment where all cooperation is considered toxic.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:52 pm

If Obama care stays in tact, I think I would happily not work for $1,700 a month. Of course, I imagine the cost living would shoot way up as people start to pick and choose their jobs and employers lose the upper hand when it comes to making sacrifices in life for job security.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:56 pm

Kraken wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote: In other news how 'bout that basic income? Might deserve its own thread but can't do that well on my phone.
I like the idea very much and it has enjoyed support in both parties off and on over the decades. Of course it's not on the table in this political environment where all cooperation is considered toxic.
But we might see it in other countries. I think once automation and the contractor economy are in full swing our hand will be forced here. Foreign experience will be worth watching.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Madmarcus » Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:58 pm

LordMortis wrote:I don't know how much I agree but

http://www.nextavenue.org/how-the-dream ... nightmare/

I do wonder how people do it and assume, as a nation, we're headed for disaster. I make a great wage by most standards while I live an upper lower class lifestyle in an attempt to live within my means. I have no spouse and no children to support and I'm tucking away everything I can toward retirement. Even so, I'll retire later than my industrial blue collar worker father supporting a family of 7 did and I won't have any of his benefits, even after tucking the maximum amount of my wage into retirement, between IRA and 401k, a total some people barely make in a year.

I don't know how ally'all do it.
I guess I have to say compound interest works wonders. We've been saving 10% + maxed IRAs + some additional into mutual funds since our early 20's. We just never turned on the consumption engine. I suppose we're also living the upper lower class lifestyle you mention but it just feels like life to us. Probably the biggest thing is that we've always been right around the average family wage but with one adult voluntarily not-working. Not working and being available to do things can really cut costs!

I don't know if we could do it again starting out now; we didn't have college debt and we have lived in low cost of living areas (although that has included specifically looking at salary versus cost of living when moving for a job).

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:11 pm

Madmarcus wrote:I guess I have to say compound interest works wonders. We've been saving 10% + maxed IRAs + some additional into mutual funds since our early 20's.
All of my income was paying my way through college until my mid to late 20s. My wage barely paid rent on a cheap apartment until almost my early 30s. By my early 30s I started the 10% (at my current job, but 10% back then almost nothing)
We just never turned on the consumption engine. I suppose we're also living the upper lower class lifestyle you mention but it just feels like life to us.


I turned the engine on for probably about 3 years after my divorce but never to the point of spending more than I made and still putting lots of money into my retirement.
Probably the biggest thing is that we've always been right around the average family wage but with one adult voluntarily not-working. Not working and being available to do things can really cut costs!
That's what's scary to me. I am at least 1.5 times the average family wage but I'm one guy living in small 1950s home in a depressed neighborhood. I'm making it pretty easily toward my goal but everything I have extra is going to my personal retirement. If my health holds out. I'm good for my lifestyle and I'll retire with my lifestyle in my late 50s. Depending on things like "oh shit I need a new roof" or "oh shit I need a new car" or "oh shit I need a new valve in my heart."

I have idea how people do it. The piece above suggests nobody is doing it and that's gotta hurt in next 10 or 20 years. Who wants to keep a bunch of 70 and 80 year olds in the work force? How do you keep them in the workforce with a bunch 20 somethings trying to get in?

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:38 pm

My dad is going to be 70 and he's still working in construction (administration). He's routinely 14 stories under NYC, walking around and yelling at people. He's been talking about retirement for the last few years, but I think he's *finally* ready to stop working in early 2017. I do know that a complete lack of post-work benefits (no pension, no health care) is part of that driving force. Meanwhile, I have three pensions. They all can't default, right?

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:41 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Meanwhile, I have three pensions.
I completely don't understand how that works. How can you have possibly worked enough in your 40s to have earned three pensions?

I also don't understand how pensions aren't a thing of the past, in general.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:44 pm

I don't understand it either. I had one pension but after 24 months of not contributing, they froze it. When I went back to work in the public sector they forced me to join the pension system again...but I couldn't join my frozen pension, so they opened another pension account for me. It's not 100% identical to my first pension, but pretty close. Then a few years ago they allowed us to join an optional pension system for an additional 5% out of my paycheck or something a month. How could I say no? I just clicked a bunch of boxes and accepted the deductions.

It makes zero sense but after close to 20 years of time working in the public sector, here I am. My wife actually has a pension through her former employer as well. But they were purchased by another company and we're waiting to hear what's going to happen. I'm sure it will totally be fair and equitable. All I know is that I have 94 mortgage payments left. Assuming I'm not dead, I'll figure out the next step.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by coopasonic » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:03 pm

Smoove_B wrote:All I know is that I have 94 mortgage payments left. Assuming I'm not dead, I'll figure out the next step.
That makes me want to look... but not enough to actually look. I think we have more than 94 left, but not a lot.

OK, I looked (can't believe I remembered my password!)... It's a lot more than 94... 145. Dammit Smoove.

Based on where we are now historically paying $200/mo ahead it is actually 130 months left. If we continue paying $200/mo extra it becomes 105 months left. That's better.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LawBeefaroni » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:10 pm

Not all pensions are the same. Some pay out a salary regardless of how much was put in. Others pay our based on your contribution.

For example, a police pension might be something like an annual salary equal to an average of your 3 highest years' salary. You pay dues but disbursement isn't directly related to the contribution.

Meanwhile my non-profit, private sector, frozen pension is just an annual disbursement of whatever I have in there upon retirement. Until then it grows at a rate equal to 30 year tbills. But it's fully funded (120% last I checked).
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:45 pm

This is where I win! I have zero payments left on my nearly worthless house!

OtOH, I'm about to be out $500+ to buy and pay for the installation of a new dishwasher. I'm out the three grand for a furnace from last autumn. I don't even want to think about roof and my property taxes are back on the rise (which I guess means, so technically is the value of my home)

I have no idea if I would have been better off putting money into a Roth IRA over paying off the house. Probably, but the stress of a mortgage was huge for a guy who always worked to pay for something before he bought it. Which puts me right where I was. My house is paid off. I brown bag my lunch every day. I sale shop. I buy cheap clothes and wear them until they are thread bare. I should make it to retirement at an early age if my current job and my health hold out. But I am blessed to be this way. I couldn't do it with a family. No way.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:27 pm

coopasonic wrote:OK, I looked (can't believe I remembered my password!)... It's a lot more than 94... 145. Dammit Smoove.
94 payments assumes I continue to throw extra money at it every month, which I've been doing for a few years now. If my work situation changes much more, then we're hosed because I went against my cash-hoarding instincts to pay this mo'fo off. Regardless, if it all works out, the house will be paid off and our daughter will graduate high school 2 months later. But sometimes, yeah, I feel like it's all a house of cards and if there's turmoil, I'll be eating dog food.
LawBeefaroni wrote:Not all pensions are the same. Some pay out a salary regardless of how much was put in. Others pay our based on your contribution.
That is correct. My first pension is a guaranteed return based on my average salary during contributions. My second and third pensions ( :D ) are based on whatever I'm able to amass coupled with what my employer is compelled to provide.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Madmarcus » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:53 am

LordMortis wrote: I have idea how people do it. The piece above suggests nobody is doing it and that's gotta hurt in next 10 or 20 years. Who wants to keep a bunch of 70 and 80 year olds in the work force? How do you keep them in the workforce with a bunch 20 somethings trying to get in?
I agree that it is a huge issue.

I'm just frustrated whenever this type of topic becomes a brief splash. You get articles about how the broadly defined middle aged, middle class can't be expected to save because they either need to keep up with the Jones, need keep up an appearance of being wealthier than they are, or need to spend money on their kids.Certainly there are pressures to do all of these things but there are people out there that are living "the middle class lifestyle" as suggested by the government of a house, cars for the adults, yearly vacations, and financial security in both retirement and (reasonable) higher education for their kids.

I fully agree that it takes a certain mindset that needs to start early. Its harder to have that mindset and the ability to act on it than it was in the past due to increasing higher education costs. Some people have other issues that conspire to frustrate their desires. But I think that harpy on the impossibility is a bad move.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by RunningMn9 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:14 am

Smoove_B wrote:if there's turmoil, I'll be eating dog food.
The mantra of today's upper middle class. :)
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Isgrimnur » Wed May 04, 2016 11:18 am

Aeropostale
Aeropostale on Wednesday filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, saying in the filing that it was seeking approval to immediately close 154 of its more than 800 stores. The news didn’t come as much of a surprise on Wall Street: Sales have been in a long-term slide at the troubled retailer, and the company had said back in March that it was “exploring strategic alternatives,” including finding a buyer. Just two weeks ago, its stock was delisted from the New York Stock Exchange because it was trading for just pennies a share.

That Aeropostale had to resort to bankruptcy reflects some big-picture challenges in retailing. Many of the chain’s stores are located in the kinds of smaller, regional malls that have experienced plummeting foot traffic due to the rise of online shopping. And teen retailers that dominated high-school dressing trends in the 90s and early aughts generally have struggled to adapt to the preferences of today’s young shoppers, who are instead flocking to fast-fashion outposts such as H&M and Zara. Fellow teen retailers Delia’s, Deb Stores and Wet Seal ended up filing for bankruptcy and closing their entire store fleets last year because they could not figure out how to court customers in this shopping environment.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri May 06, 2016 5:27 pm

AprilUnemployment - 5.0% (0.0%)

>= Age 25 by education level
CategoryPercentChangeYOY Change
Less than a high school diploma7.50.70.9
High school graduates, no college5.20.60.0
Some college or associate degree3.90.40.5
Bachelor's degree and higher2.30.30.2
Table A-1 - Unemployment Rate Ages 16-19 - 14.6% (0.8, 1.0 YOY)

Table A-11 - Reasons for unemployment
Job losers and persons who completed temporary jobs2.3
Job leavers0.5
Reentrants1.4
New entrants0.5
Table A-12 - Unemployed persons by duration of unemployment
WeeksChangeYOY Change
Average Duration29.80.73.0
Median Duration13.20.50.3
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Isgrimnur » Thu May 19, 2016 2:56 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Sports Authority
Saddled with debt and unable to upgrade its stores, Sports Authority filed Wednesday for bankruptcy protection.
Dead
Sports Authority will close all of its 450-plus stores across the United States after it was unable to secure a buyer, according to a new court filing.
...
The Colorado-based company, which was once the largest sporting goods store chain in the country with stores in 41 states and Puerto Rico, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in March with the intention to restructure.

As part of that restructuring, the company announced it would close 140 stores. But the retailer was unable to reach an agreement with creditors and lenders, and was instead sold at auction.
...
Sports Authority currently has the corporate naming rights to Sports Authority Field at Mile High, the stadium where the Denver Broncos play.
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Skinypupy
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Skinypupy » Fri May 20, 2016 8:01 am

This seems as good a place as any to put this story I read yesterday. 2/3 of Americans would struggle to cover a $1,000 emergency. The part that was really eye-opening is this:
These financial difficulties span all income levels, according to the poll conducted by The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research. Seventy-five percent of people in households making less than $50,000 a year would have difficulty coming up with $1,000 to cover an unexpected bill. But when income rose to between $50,000 and $100,000, the difficulty decreased only modestly to 67 percent.

Even for the country’s wealthiest 20 percent — households making more than $100,000 a year — 38 percent say they would have at least some difficulty coming up with $1,000.
I can't wrap my brain around making over $100K a year and not being able to come up with $1K for an emergency.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Smoove_B » Fri May 20, 2016 8:15 am

Skinypupy wrote:I can't wrap my brain around making over $100K a year and not being able to come up with $1K for an emergency.
You and me both. I saw that story yesterday and I just can't even get my mind around it.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by RunningMn9 » Fri May 20, 2016 9:37 am

Something seems very wrong with that analysis. I'm guessing that some portion of that 38% just has no idea how money works. If they are interpreting it to just mean "has $1000 sitting in an account waiting to pay for emergencies", I can understand plenty of circumstances where this could happen (not having $1000 sitting around waiting to pay for an emergency).

Being in the 62% side of that equation doesn't stop me from understanding how circumstances could put me in the 38%. And that stops me from judging. :)
And in banks across the world
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Isgrimnur » Fri May 20, 2016 9:43 am

That's exactly how they're measuring it.
Yet when faced with an unexpected $1,000 bill, a majority of Americans said they wouldn’t be especially likely to pay with money on hand, the AP-NORC survey found. A third said they would have to borrow from a bank or from friends and family, or put the bill on a credit card. Thirteen percent would skip paying other bills, and 11 percent said they would likely not pay the bill at all.

Those numbers suggest that most American families do not have at least $1,000 stashed away in an accessible savings account, much less under their mattresses, to cover an emergency.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Fri May 20, 2016 9:43 am

I find people generally spend as much as or more than they make.
I save nearly everything I make and every time I have to make $1000 purchase is hurts my parts.
People usually have families and like to keep up with Joneses.
$100,000 after taxes doesn't go as far as it used to.
Shit happens. Often medically that put you in a bad way for a long time.
Mortgage
College (and college credit card use) debt

This is just another exercise in how I don't understand how people do it. I don't make $100k but I make a fine wage. I support only myself, doing nothing, in a cheap house, and it's everything I can do to max out my retirement every year, praying that's enough to retire early. There are average two income households making half what I make and I don't get how they do it. I also don't get how people pay for vacations and cars nicer than Focus and replacing them every few years and living big ole mausoleum houses. $100k a year doesn't get you any of that and it sure doesn't do it for a family of 4.


....

What's that about two checks away from homelessness and 4 meals away from anarchy?

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Skinypupy » Fri May 20, 2016 10:24 am

RunningMn9 wrote:Being in the 62% side of that equation doesn't stop me from understanding how circumstances could put me in the 38%.
Oh, I completely get that. Most of us are one disaster away from being in that situation. 38% just seems (to me) like an unusually large percentage of people in that income bracket who couldn't come up with $1K. I'm probably just overestimating how much people actually spend/save.

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised though. I look around my neighborhood and see people with these huge homes, brand new $70K trucks, all the cool toys (jet skis, boats, ATV, etc.), going on cruises 2-3 times a year...all the things that I only wish I could afford. I'm always shocked when I hear how little they make to support that lavish lifestyle (most seem to be living paycheck to paycheck, if even that), and how deeply in debt they typically are.
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by RunningMn9 » Fri May 20, 2016 10:37 am

There are just so many factors in play before we get to the "judgey" parts (i.e. keeping up with the neighbors, etc.). $100,000 in Iowa is going to go a lot further than $100,000 in Manhattan. $100,000 for a single person will go a lot farther than $100,000 for a family of 6. Typical career growth curve might put a lot of people in the low $100K area in the middle of, or on the precipice of, adding crushing college bills to the equation.

But there's also another element of money mgmt that makes the question tricky to me. I could probably pay off my house in cash if I wanted to at this point. But all of that money is currently locked away for other purposes (retirement, college, etc.). I never *feel* like I have any money, despite the fact that I obviously possess money.

In other words, it's not *that* hard for cash flow to make it seem like you can't absorb a $1000 emergency, even though you could obviously easily absorb a $1000 emergency.

As an example, right now I'm paying an extra $1000 a month to the mortgage company to pay off a second mortgage. So obviously I can take a $1000 emergency hit. But it doesn't FEEL like I can take that hit (as easily), because in my head that money is already spoken for.
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
But the monkey in the corner
Well he's slowly drifting out of range

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by Smoove_B » Fri May 20, 2016 10:55 am

I don't consider it a "judge" thing, I just can't comprehend it. As a homeowner, there is a non-stop cavalcade of ridiculous BS expenses - and it sucks. In the same way I cannot comprehend not being able to swim or ride a bike, I cannot comprehend not having an emergency stash of cash around to deal with things like broken refrigerators, a busted furnace element or something else in the $1,000 price range that would be considered critically important for home life to continue. It is more of a "holy crap this happened once and it sucked so I'm going to make sure it never happens again" type deal.

I can imagine spiraling out of control (due to something like job loss or medical event) and that absolutely terrifies me.

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LordMortis
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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Fri May 20, 2016 10:57 am

Skinypupy wrote:38% just seems (to me) like an unusually large percentage of people in that income bracket who couldn't come up with $1K. I'm probably just overestimating how much people actually spend/save.
A third said they would have to borrow from a bank or from friends and family, or put the bill on a credit card.


I put everything on credit card and pay the balance off at the end of the month. I just had an unforeseen nearly $1000 spend on a computer this week and it went on the credit card. I'll deal with it June. Paying with a debit card makes no sense for my situation.
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised though. I look around my neighborhood and see people with these huge homes, brand new $70K trucks, all the cool toys (jet skis, boats, ATV, etc.), going on cruises 2-3 times a year...all the things that I only wish I could afford. I'm always shocked when I hear how little they make to support that lavish lifestyle (most seem to be living paycheck to paycheck, if even that), and how deeply in debt they typically are.
Very much this. I don't get it all. But I guess "I'm a saver" which is to say I suffer anxiety and stress over what the future may hold. I wish I was grasshopper. I think it's a happier life. But either genetically or though years of culture ingraining, I'm an ant.

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Re: How has the recent economic turmoil affected you?

Post by LordMortis » Fri May 20, 2016 11:03 am

Smoove_B wrote:broken refrigerators,
Two years ago.
a busted furnace
Last year


Have I recently mentioned, Fuck home ownership. I constantly ask myself if not having neighbors on my walls and having a garage to park my car in is worth it.

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