MLB Hall of Fame Inductee(s)

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:14 pm

Henderson and Rice. Blyleven and Raines fall short, sadly.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:17 pm

Ricky Ricky Ricky!

Koz · Post by **Koz** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:24 pm

Congrats to Rice, finally. He was my favorite player (along with Dewey) growing up so nice to see him finally rewarded.

B Dog · Post by **B Dog** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:01 pm

Rice seemed inevitable, but I'm not sure I would have voted for him given the chance. Blyleven bums me out. Let the guy in already, dammit!

Steron · Post by **Steron** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:31 pm

No Mark McGwire again.

I don't think I would have voted for Rice either.

Interesting Rob Neyer Article on Rice.

Now we can stop talking about Jim Rice, until a respectful period has passed and we can simply add him to the list of good players -- Bruce Sutter, Catfish Hunter and Orlando Cepeda come to mind -- who don't really belong in the Hall of Fame but are there anyway. As I wrote earlier this morning, the election of Rice will do little to lower the standards of the institution, as it's unlikely that players like Dave Parker, Albert Belle, Dick Allen and big Frank Howard now will be knocking on the Coop's door (even though, it should be said, all of them were at least Rice's equal).

Jim Palmer on Rice and Dawson.

"But if I was a sportswriter and I was going to vote for Jim Rice, I think you'd have to give just as much if not more consideration to Andre Dawson. He was such a great all-around player. He won the Gold Gloves. He hit the home runs. He stole the bases, and Jim Rice wasn't able to do that."

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:03 pm

If you're going to let in someone with gaudy home numbers and mediocre road numbers, Santo should be next.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:05 pm

Rice?

Both Blyleven and Rice were sort of known as assholes during their playing days, but at least Bert tried to reform his image and be a goodguy at the end of his career and has carved out a nice, likeable niche for himself in the broadcast booth. Jim Rice?

Maybe if we're inducting people for GIDP....

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:15 pm

triggercut wrote:Maybe if we're inducting people for GIDP....

Wait . . . when did Derek Lee become a part of this discussion?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:17 pm

triggercut wrote:Jim Rice?

Probably hired better PR people.

Koz · Post by **Koz** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:24 pm

triggercut wrote:Jim Rice?

He does pre- and post-game coverage for the Sox on their TV network now. Besides the fact that he mumbles and has a John Madden-esque habit of stating the obvious, he seems perfectly likeable. He was an ass back in the day though.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:44 pm

Trammell is another guy who should get in.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:51 pm

Kelric wrote:Trammell is another guy who should get in.

Trammell was my favorite player growing up. I think he should get in but I'm quite biased.

Dickie Allen is on the cusp like Rice was.

McBa1n · Post by **McBa1n** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:30 pm

I'm really happy for Rice. I can retire my crusade of message board touting.
Rice really represented what the credentials of the hall are about - and there was a good chunk of time where no one was a more feared hitter.

B Dog · Post by **B Dog** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:53 pm

McBa1n wrote:I'm really happy for Rice. I can retire my crusade of message board touting.
Rice really represented what the credentials of the hall are about - and there was a good chunk of time where no one was a more feared hitter.

Between 1975 and 1986, Jim Rice received 72 intentional walks. That ranks him 30th for that time period. The truly feared hitters of that time period -- Mike Schmidt and George Brett, for example -- had twice as many intentional walks.

Meanwhile, Rice ranks 6th all-time in GIDPs. And he accomplished that in more than 3,000 fewer at-bats than the five players ahead of him on the list.

I have fond memories of Jim Rice as well and I think there's an argument to be made for his HOF inclusion, but I don't think a claim that there was no more feared hitter for the better part of his career can be supported by the facts.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:03 pm

McBa1n wrote: Rice really represented what the credentials of the hall are about

Marginal candidacy? A legend that lapped a career miles ago?

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:49 pm

Rice's career arc is just perplexing as hell. He basically peaked at age 25-26, had one more monster season at age 30, and the rest of his career he was hitting in the .280 range with 20-27 HR per season. He had no secondary value--he wasn't much of a fielder, had no speed, and a pretty lousy arm--so when he stopped hitting for power at age 34, he was pretty much done. He was never the most feared hitter of his day; the guy hit 40+ HR once, and 30+ HR three times over a 16-year MLB career. Hell, Dale Murphy did that, and won five gold gloves in CF for the Braves...and people are even less sure Murphy's an HoF'er.

Rice had three wonderful seasons from 77-79, and another one in '83 (I guess his 1986 season of hitting .324 with 20 HR can be called pretty good.) Other than that, he was a better than average middle of the lineup guy who benefited greatly from being in the lineups he was in and playing in the park he played in.

Trammell deserves a spot more than Rice; both guys had similar career arcs, but at least Tramm can point to a series of terrible injuries as the reason his career tailed off so badly after age 32.

Dan_Theman · Post by **Dan_Theman** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:52 pm

I'm quite miffed that Blyleven missed out while Rice got in. However, I've still got faith that Bert will make his way in there before he leaves the booth.

B Dog · Post by **B Dog** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:54 am

Dan_Theman wrote:I'm quite miffed that Blyleven missed out while Rice got in. However, I've still got faith that Bert will make his way in there before he leaves the booth.

Sadly, after a sizable leap in votes last year, Blyleven only received two more votes this year than he did in 2008. He's still below two thirds of votes (62.7% to be precise), which leaves him more than 65 votes short of the 75% needed for enshrinement. I wonder whether the momentum behind his candidacy has stalled.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:35 am

Raines and Dawson should be there as a final sendoff to the Expos or something.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:36 am

Rice Home: .320/.374/.546
Rice Away: .277/.330/.459

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:28 pm

Kelric wrote:Trammell is another guy who should get in.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:47 pm

Can we induct double play and catcher/pitcher partners as pairs? That way we can get both Whitaker and Trammell since neither one is getting in on their own.

McBa1n · Post by **McBa1n** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:16 pm

Sometimes stats are over-rated - and yeah, Schmidt and Brett were among the best hitters of that era. Intentional walks is not a reliable counter stat IMO - it has everything to do with game situation. You can't walk Rice with Dewey on deck - that's stupid.

I can see the arguments for Dawson, whom I think is worthy - and Jack Morris (post season nasty boy)... But beyond that? I dunno - I don't get the anti-Rice sentiment. The guy at his best was as good, if not better, as any other elite in baseball. In fact, I think it can be argued he had seasons where he was the best, plus some seasons where he was amongst the elite. Other elite players of that era are already in the Hall - I think Rice got a raw deal a long time. While he didn't have the '20 year nasty career' that 1% of 1% have, he was dominant (relative to the rest of the league) for a period of time - and I think that's where he earned it and deserves it. I think that's what makes a Hall of Famer.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:08 am

He was dominate.. at home. That's where there is a problem. It's the same problem as Ron Santo.

The Preacher · Post by **The Preacher** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:43 am

noxiousdog wrote:Rice Home: .320/.374/.546
Rice Away: .277/.330/.459

Stupid Fenway.

Can someone explain the argument for NOT voting for Ricky? How do 5% not vote for him?

tag edit

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:20 am

The Preacher wrote: Can someone explain the argument for NOT voting for Ricky? How do 5% not vote for him?

There's no argument. It's simply tradition. For whatever reason Babe Ruth did not get a unanimous vote. Therefore, noone else has either.

The Preacher · Post by **The Preacher** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:01 am

noxiousdog wrote:
The Preacher wrote: Can someone explain the argument for NOT voting for Ricky? How do 5% not vote for him?
There's no argument. It's simply tradition. For whatever reason Babe Ruth did not get a unanimous vote. Therefore, noone else has either.

Fucking noone. Won't he ever leave us alone?

That said, I think they should root out the 5% and take away their voting rights. Idiots.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:41 am

The Preacher wrote: That said, I think they should root out the 5% and take away their voting rights. Idiots.

5%? You need to root out way more than that.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:56 pm

Kelric wrote: ↑Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:44 pm Trammell is another guy who should get in.

Done.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:46 pm

Hell yes, Trammell and Morris!

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:14 am

Blah, Morris. Yay, Trammell! Now we need to get Whitaker in.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:15 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:46 pm Hell yes, Trammell and Morris!

Jack Morris really didn't deserve to get in.

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