Breaking Bad is Good

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:56 am

Well, he didn't find a cure for cancer on his drive from New Hampshire. I guess that would have been perfect. But other than that. . .

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:02 pm

McNutt wrote:The finale was written so that Elliot and Gretchen would give Walt Jr. the money. The writers were definitely tidying up loose ends and the money was considered a done deal. We can say that Gretchen and Elliot probably gave it to the cops, but I don't think that's how the writers saw it playing out.

You're bringing up past episodes to say why Walt didn't win. I'm only talking about the last 24 hours of his life, where everything went according to plan. He laid down dying on the drug lab floor knowing that he pulled that last plan off perfectly and that there wasn't a person who deserved to die that he didn't personally kill. Tidy.

I guess it all depends on your goals. If the end result of "fuck everything up just a little bit less" was your goal then mission accomplished. If your goal was to provide a future for your loved ones then mission failure, imo. He will be hated by his eldest, unknown to his youngest save through police records and news stories, his wife can not stand him, his brother in law was murdered in front of him and his sister in law hates him. All he accomplished in the fianl episode may have kept things from getting worse for them but it certainly did nothing to protect the idea of "family" that he had talked about the entire series. He supposedly got into it for his legacy. I hardly think he won that.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:06 pm

As I said, I'm only talking about a perfect ending from the starting point of the beginning of that final episode. He righted as many wrongs as possible. He's never bringing Hank back and he's never going to be happily married and cancer free. He died thinking about what he had just accomplished instead of wallowing in the misery of his mistakes.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:45 pm

We're talking about a starting point exactly 7 minutes before the ending though! ...oh...wait...maybe Remus is talking about a starting point 17 minutes in?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:55 pm

McNutt wrote:He died thinking about what he had just accomplished instead of wallowing in the misery of his mistakes.

I guess that's where we differ then. I feel he died thinking about how he fucked up the life of every one he cared about all for the lure of popwer making meth.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:02 pm

I would make this concession:

Heisenberg had a better day. Walter, not so much.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:05 pm

Remus West wrote:I guess that's where we differ then. I feel he died thinking about how he fucked up the life of every one he cared about all for the lure of popwer making meth.

Go back and watch the end again. He died with a smile on his face, happy to be back where he wanted to be. Breaking Bad isn't the story of a guy that's forced to make drugs to care for his family. It's ultimately the story of a man coming to grips with the fact that he liked the power and recognition associated with being a criminal mastermind. Yes, there were regrets over how it tore apart his family, but I don't get the impression he died wanting to change a thing. He died satisfied.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:32 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
McNutt wrote:However, the way the finale was done you were cheering for Walt. Fuck cheering for that guy.
Isn't that kind of the point of what made the show so great, though? We all know on an intellectual level that Walt is a friggin' monster, but we all kept cheering for him to the end. It's easy to write a show with a character you hate. It's much harder to write a show with a character that you genuinely like AND hate.

This is exactly my take on why the finale was so satisfying. We cheered the monster one last time. The writers knocked it out of the park. And I love that the loose ends (other than Huel!) were addressed -- anything less and folks would be laying scorn (or incompetence) at the writing crew's feet.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:37 pm

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:33 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Remus West wrote:I guess that's where we differ then. I feel he died thinking about how he fucked up the life of every one he cared about all for the lure of popwer making meth.
Go back and watch the end again. He died with a smile on his face, happy to be back where he wanted to be. Breaking Bad isn't the story of a guy that's forced to make drugs to care for his family. It's ultimately the story of a man coming to grips with the fact that he liked the power and recognition associated with being a criminal mastermind. Yes, there were regrets over how it tore apart his family, but I don't get the impression he died wanting to change a thing. He died satisfied.

When we meet Walter White he is a broken man who's just going through the motions of living, following the rules and conforming to other people's expectations. At first he doesn't even want to treat his cancer because it's a release from his life sentence.

Of course he died satisfied. For two years he got to really LIVE.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:47 pm

Kraken wrote:For two years he got to really LIVE.

By killing other people and producing a more potent drug. Yay for the rest of us.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:48 pm

That's why he was evil.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:09 pm

He accumulated 80mill at one point, he could have walked away a millionaire but didn't. He liked it, he wanted that life.

So then, at the end when it was all destroyed(his criminal life, forget his family), how is that a win? He dies knowing it was all for nothing. The resources he controls at the end, the money, is not even the lion's share of what he had earned. Even from that criminal mastermind point of view it's a very sad end for him.

To say that he was dying anyways so this is a win ignores that he could have died with everything intact but instead saw it all end.

If he died law abiding but broke and left his family poor, yeah that sucks but at least they'd have their reputations and most importantly the good memories of him. Now his son doesn't even have that much. In fact now his son probably doesn't think a whole lot of his mom, even before she admits she knows where his uncle's body is. There's no way I believe when the mom says "Oh, your dad came to see me just before he died and told me where" that the son isn't going to roll his eyes. He's going to believe his mom was partners with the dad from day one. If she pushes him to accept some left field million dollar trust fund, he'll KNOW she was in on it.

That's a horrible ending for all involved, not a win.

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:23 pm

AGAIN, I'm not saying that this is something Walt would have considered a win in season 2. Yes, he's dead. Yes he lost most of his money. Yes his family hates him. But that was also the case before he left New Hampshire. He did a hell of a lot in one day, enough for him to feel satisfied at the end. If you don't think he was satisfied then you don't understand Walt. He was alive when he was Heisenberg and he loved it. So he died doing what he loved, not coughing up a lung in a remote cabin. And as he said to Skyler, being Heisenberg was why he did it.

The criminal mastermind pov is definitely a win. People took everything from him, but he managed to pull off an amazing string of murders to get them all back. He died believing that his family is going to be rich, his enemies are dead and he is Heisenberg, not the sad cancer patient he was the day before.

Oh, and to say he could have died with everything intact? How exactly was he going to do that? He had gotten out of the business when all of this went to hell. There was no way he was going to get out clean.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:48 pm

McNutt wrote:AGAIN, I'm not saying that this is something Walt would have considered a win in season 2. Yes, he's dead. Yes he lost most of his money. Yes his family hates him. But that was also the case before he left New Hampshire. He did a hell of a lot in one day, enough for him to feel satisfied at the end. If you don't think he was satisfied then you don't understand Walt. He was alive when he was Heisenberg and he loved it. So he died doing what he loved, not coughing up a lung in a remote cabin. And as he said to Skyler, being Heisenberg was why he did it.

Exactly. It was about the money at first, but that gradually became secondary -- as Skyler pointed out, they already had more than they could ever spend. Money is just one way of keeping score.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:47 am

In those last two years after finding out he was going to die, Walt finally lived. It's a classic trope, even though the Heisenberg lifestyle is not a praiseworthy example.

Walt may have died partly satisfied with his desire for significance and for his talent to be recognized, but family was important to him (even if he used it as an excuse for doing horrible things) and he lost all that, so it was a partial win at best.

I wonder whether Gilligan considered something like having Lydia's daughter walk in or knock on her bedroom door while she was on the phone with Walt as another gut punch to the viewers. "Just a minute, honey. Mommy's on the phone..."

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:38 am

He didn't say, but the ending we saw certainly wasn't the only one considered. But in his own words:

"Walt has failed on so many levels, but he has managed to do the one thing he set out to do, which is a victory. He has managed to make his family financially sound in his absence, and that was really the only thing he set out to do in that first episode. So, mission accomplished.”

This is great:

Todd is so likable, you almost have these ambivalent feelings when he’s being choked to death. But Lydia? We were all of one mind when we were saying, ‘Oh man, she’s got to go.’ So we figured, ‘What’s the best way to do that?’

mori · Post by **mori** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:36 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:In retrospect, the finale was a bit too tidy for me, and given the chaos Walt had unleashed through his actions, I would have preferred if that carried over somewhat to his final steps, with at least some aspect not executed to perfection. The way it played out just seemed pretty implausible. I mean, really, how lucky was Walt that every one of those Nazi dudes assembled in a tiny little room for his visit? Not even single one is walking around the grounds elsewhere?What if Uncle Jack just wanted to meet with him alone, or just with a couple of people as back up? I don't know how Walt could have anticipated getting every single Nazi in prime shooting range, and then his contraption actually being so successful that it takes out everyone (except, to the benefit of perfect dramatic storytelling, Uncle Jack and Todd, who are finished off personally by Walt and Jesse, respectively).

Even the final song seemed way too perfect in it's lyrical content. I think I would have preferred an ending that was a little more messy, even ambiguous in spots.

That being said, it was still a much more satisfying conclusion than many other great TV shows (e.g., The Sopranos).

I agree and I think that is why I feel disappointed in the conclusion. They gave us 61 episodes of anything but neat and tidy, then the 62 episode was a clean package to wrap the storyline up. But reading this thread, it seemed to be what most people wanted.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:35 pm

I don't think it was a lifetime win for Walt, more like that "Today Was A Good Day" meme.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:07 pm

Jaymann wrote:I don't think it was a lifetime win for Walt, more like that "Today Was A Good Day" meme.

But backwards. Unlike Ice Cube, he did have to use his AK.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:11 pm

And I'm pretty sure Walt's 52 birthday bacon would negate "a breakfast with no hog".

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:21 pm

The alternate ending everyone wanted.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:50 pm

Finally got around to watching this show. It took me a couple of months, but I finished it yesterday. What can I say? It's everything everyone said it was. While I think most consistent season was season 2, it's amazing what a great ending can do.

That quick flashback in the final episode, when Walt is in his house and thinks back to his birthday (episode one), with Hank talking about a ride along, really got to me. I've been wracking my brain to come up with a better finale to any drama, and I can't.

nasai · Post by **nasai** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:02 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Remus West wrote:I guess that's where we differ then. I feel he died thinking about how he fucked up the life of every one he cared about all for the lure of popwer making meth.
Go back and watch the end again. He died with a smile on his face, happy to be back where he wanted to be. Breaking Bad isn't the story of a guy that's forced to make drugs to care for his family. It's ultimately the story of a man coming to grips with the fact that he liked the power and recognition associated with being a criminal mastermind. Yes, there were regrets over how it tore apart his family, but I don't get the impression he died wanting to change a thing. He died satisfied.

You win.

KKBlue · Post by **KKBlue** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:14 pm

Inverarity wrote:... I've been wracking my brain to come up with a better finale to any drama, and I can't.

Swoon
That show mann, geesh, what a ride! I'm liking how other TV series are taking the time to give us a good ending to their shows. Agree about a ending for BB. Thank you writers for caring about the whole story, beginning all the way through to the end.

My girlfriend is watching the series now. Think we need to make a date so I can relive the awesomeness of the seasons.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:41 pm

A masterful tribute video to Breaking Bad: http://vimeo.com/93042217#at=0

What an amazing show.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:53 pm

That was well-made by somebody who really understood the show.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:40 am

Wow, that was really well done.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:59 am

Very nice.

KKBlue · Post by **KKBlue** » Thu May 01, 2014 12:32 am

Sweet! Thanks for linking! Love that show!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu May 01, 2014 12:56 pm

Also it was just announced that Michael McKean will be on Just Call Saul, playing an attorney with some undisclosed physical malady.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu May 01, 2014 1:31 pm

El Guapo wrote:Also it was just announced that Michael McKean will be on Just Call Saul, playing an attorney with some undisclosed physical malady.

I read that. Looking forward to it.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:07 pm

Related to nothing, but because I am highly sensitive to the music used in movies and TV, Breaking Bad, if they ever had a soundtrack, has just some kick ass tunes in it. And of course it's all over the place, but highly righteous picks, man. Same for Eastbound and Down, believe it or not.

Given the popularity of BB, I am sure there are more than a few playlists that have compiled all the seasons' music. Need to find that pronto, before Apple yanks my free access to BeatsMusic.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:24 pm

This might be a good place to start.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:41 pm

Beauty! Thanks!

KKBlue · Post by **KKBlue** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:43 pm

Do not click if you have not watched the whole series!

34 Things You Probably Didn't Know About Breaking Bad.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:35 pm

A movie is coming:

Sources tell The Hollywood Reporter that Breaking Bad creator Vince Gilligan is working on a two-hour movie, though it remains unclear if that will be released theatrically or made for television.

...

The Breaking Bad movie would mark Gilligan's first project to stem from the new three-year overall deal he signed with Sony TV in July. Sources said the pact is valued at less than $50 million as Gilligan is not in the same volume space as producers like Shonda Rhimes and Ryan Murphy, who both signed nine-figure deals with Netflix.

A Breaking Bad film (of any sort) would be a boon for Sony TV, which, as an independent studio, has been fighting an uphill battle in an era when ownership has become increasingly important.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:40 pm

KKBlue wrote: ↑Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:43 pm Do not click if you have not watched the whole series!

34 Things You Probably Didn't Know About Breaking Bad.

Okay fine (I know the post is 4 years old).

Breaking Bad is a series that just about everyone has told me I should watch, and I keep intending to. Now that I'm all caught up on The Good Place, maybe I should do some Bad to balance it?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:48 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:35 pm Shonda Rhimes and Ryan Murphy

I don't know who they are...

Shonda Lynn Rhimes ... is best known as the showrunner—creator, head writer, and executive producer—of the television medical drama Grey's Anatomy, its spin-off Private Practice, and the political thriller series Scandal. Rhimes has also served as the executive producer of the ABC television series Off the Map, How to Get Away with Murder, and The Catch

Ryan Patrick Murphy ... is best known for creating/co-creating/producing a number of successful television series, including the FX medical drama Nip/Tuck (2003–10), the Fox musical comedy-drama Glee (2009–15), the FX anthology series American Horror Story (2011–present), American Crime Story (2016–present), and Feud (2017) and the Fox procedural drama 9-1-1 (2018–present). He is also known for directing the 2010 film adaptation of Elizabeth Gilbert's bestselling memoir Eat, Pray, Love

That would be because, while I am aware of most of those titles, I have not watched a single one.