United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Fate is a fickle beast. PRWeek gave Munoz the communicator of the year award *last night*. That has lead to some unfortunate flack for PRWeek. Also United had kicked off a hashtag campaign #UnitedJourney for people to talk about their favorite United Trips. That isn't...going...so well.
- LordMortis
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
And that's the whole problem right there.KDH wrote:.
United CEO Doubles Down, Blames Passenger Who Got His Ass Kicked by Police
Oscar Munoz, the CEO of UnitedDear Team,
Like you, I was upset to see and hear about what happened last night aboard United Express Flight 3411 headed from Chicago to Louisville. While the facts and circumstances are still evolving, especially with respect to why this customer defied Chicago Aviation Security Officers the way he did, to give you a clearer picture of what transpired, I’ve included below a recap from the preliminary reports filed by our employees.
As you will read, this situation was unfortunately compounded when one of the passengers we politely asked to deplane refused and it became necessary to contact Chicago Aviation Security Officers to help. Our employees followed established procedures for dealing with situations like this. While I deeply regret this situation arose, I also emphatically stand behind all of you, and I want to commend you for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.
I do, however, believe there are lessons we can learn from this experience, and we are taking a close look at the circumstances surrounding this incident. Treating our customers and each other with respect and dignity is at the core of who we are, and we must always remember this no matter how challenging the situation.
Oscar
Who has Botnet time they're owed?
The guy who writes the book say "We did everything by the book, so fuck 'em" rather than "We did everything by the book and it resulted in this failure of the system, so I need to rewrite the book."
The last paragraph is just dressing to make the whole thing sound better. What happens if you opened with there are lessons to be learned (and what they lessons are) and then say I do, however, stand behind you. It's a totally different message, IMO.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
LM vs "Communicator of the Year"
Fight!
Fight!
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
They aren't getting a pass. People are piling on the airline for what happened. Whatever fallout there will be, they will be on the receiving end. I'm just wondering was it worth it to him, the guy who got dragged off the plane? Only he knows.Holman wrote:Maybe the guy was an ass, and maybe the police were operating within the limits of their job, but absolutely nothing about that should give United a pass on the shitstorm of bad publicity they've more than earned here.
If the norm becomes "Airlines can do whatever they please," the next step is to eject passengers without even offering them a hotel room, let alone a cash bonus. Why not overbook by dozens and teach passengers that every flight is a crapshoot? Maybe it'll become normal to buy two tickets, just in case.
Bad press is important in the fight for consumer rights. If other airlines learn their lesson from this, things might marginally improve.
That whole "I'm a doctor and need to see my patients" thing makes me laugh harder. He's really using the "Do you know who I am?" gambit? No one cares. Every single person on that plane thinks they are important and need to get where they are going.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Trending now:
"Not enough seating, prepare for a beating."
"Not enough seating, prepare for a beating."
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
- Chrisoc13
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
I'm actually shocked people are defending the airline or the police in this matter. I say bravo to this man for not getting off the plane. What they were doing was wrong, and peaceful resistance is a brave choice in my opinion. I hope more people are inspirited to fight back against unfair actions by airlines. What an absurd choice united made. And then to double down on it, that's astounding. They will only lose by doing so. The only proper response would be "we are so sorry, we were wrong to handle it in this way. We are going to compensate the man in a generous fashion and review our policy and change it to make sure this doesn't happen again."
The answer for the airline is not hard- offer a lot more money for volunteers or find another way to move your crew. I've taken well over a thousand before to be bumped, which also included a hotel voucher and meal vouchers. What they were offering clearly was not enough. Raise the offer and someone will jump on it. But for the love of God do it before everyone boards the plane you idiots. And then never use brute force to remove someone who is not a risk to the safety of others from the plane.
This is a how to lesson by united for how to absolutely mess up a pr nightmare and just make it worse.
The answer for the airline is not hard- offer a lot more money for volunteers or find another way to move your crew. I've taken well over a thousand before to be bumped, which also included a hotel voucher and meal vouchers. What they were offering clearly was not enough. Raise the offer and someone will jump on it. But for the love of God do it before everyone boards the plane you idiots. And then never use brute force to remove someone who is not a risk to the safety of others from the plane.
This is a how to lesson by united for how to absolutely mess up a pr nightmare and just make it worse.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Nicehentzau wrote:This made me laugh...
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Black lives matter!
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
Wise words of warning from Smoove B: Oh, how you all laughed when I warned you about the semen. Well, who's laughing now?
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
I can just picture United making announcements that they are looking for Volunteers, and how everyone will start to get a little nervousGrifman wrote:Trending now:
"Not enough seating, prepare for a beating."
What a royal mistake.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Unagi wrote:I can just picture United making announcements that they are looking for Volunteers, and how everyone will start to get a little nervousGrifman wrote:Trending now:
"Not enough seating, prepare for a beating."
What a royal mistake.
[andre]We are looking for volunteers to deplane.[/andre]
- Pyperkub
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
About 5 years ago I vowed never to fly United again if I had any choice. They do not regard most passengers with any respect, IMHO (born out by the video). If you aren't a frequent flyer with a ton of miles you aren't shit to them.
We were flying to Hawai'i for my wife's birthday, and we arrived at the terminal 50 minutes to an hour before our flight was scheduled. However, the skycap line took 10+ minutes and by the time he was checking us in he said that because it was less than 45 minutes until take-off, he couldn't check us in, and we would be forced to take another flight.
In contrast, a month or 2 before, we had gotten to the Southwest skycap with about 30 minutes to go before our flight was scheduled, and the skycap got someone to put us in the fast track security line and made sure we caught our flight. Now that's customer service, and coupled with their bags fly free respect for travellers, they have our business for any flights we can possibly take with them.
Other major carrier annoyances (not limited to United) - captive passenger commercials. The last times we flew Delta and United, their seatback TV's automatically turned on for various commercials (large hotel chains/airlines) for which they also broadcast the commercials over the cabin loudspeakers at full volume... in Delta's case, on a red-eye which left at almost midnight. Assholes.
We were flying to Hawai'i for my wife's birthday, and we arrived at the terminal 50 minutes to an hour before our flight was scheduled. However, the skycap line took 10+ minutes and by the time he was checking us in he said that because it was less than 45 minutes until take-off, he couldn't check us in, and we would be forced to take another flight.
In contrast, a month or 2 before, we had gotten to the Southwest skycap with about 30 minutes to go before our flight was scheduled, and the skycap got someone to put us in the fast track security line and made sure we caught our flight. Now that's customer service, and coupled with their bags fly free respect for travellers, they have our business for any flights we can possibly take with them.
Other major carrier annoyances (not limited to United) - captive passenger commercials. The last times we flew Delta and United, their seatback TV's automatically turned on for various commercials (large hotel chains/airlines) for which they also broadcast the commercials over the cabin loudspeakers at full volume... in Delta's case, on a red-eye which left at almost midnight. Assholes.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Kimmel had a great take on this. Also go to the 4:12 mark for a hilarious satirical United commercial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV28_ENzFog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV28_ENzFog
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Has it come out yet who made the call on this?
Obviously the CEO is responsible for the company's poor handling of the aftermath, but who called in the police rather than upping the offer of bonus money/miles/peanut packets?
I assume the captain was at fault, and I think I know someone who just lost a pair of wings.
Obviously the CEO is responsible for the company's poor handling of the aftermath, but who called in the police rather than upping the offer of bonus money/miles/peanut packets?
I assume the captain was at fault, and I think I know someone who just lost a pair of wings.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Is now a good time for me to call my Visa Mileage Plus Card people and tell them I'm no longer comfortable with this card and am thinking of switching to another... I wonder if they would throw a lot of miles at me to stay on...
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
"The world is suffering more today from the good people who want to mind other men's business than it is from the bad people who are willing to let everybody look after their own individual affairs." - Clarence Darrow
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Best way to get passengers off your aircraft http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/12/30/w ... way-flight
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Delta doesn't work this way. It's all done by computers that don't leave any discretion to the boarding crew. They just keep upping the price until that's no longer an option. I've never seen people forcibly not being able to board... but I was this >< close to finding out first hand about a month ago. My company made me fly cargo class and I was bumped from the flight up until the last minute when someone who had booked their their pass wasn't at the gate and I got their seat. I informed the company that they'll be paying for cargo..., ahem, economy comfort next time which is the difference between reserved seating and being bumped because I can't be held accountable for not showing up to where I'm supposed to be because they don't want to spend the extra $30 extortion each way to get me there.Holman wrote:Has it come out yet who made the call on this?
Obviously the CEO is responsible for the company's poor handling of the aftermath, but who called in the police rather than upping the offer of bonus money/miles/peanut packets?
I assume the captain was at fault, and I think I know someone who just lost a pair of wings.
That almost being forcibly bumped was when I decided I may need to change the way I do flying vacations and play the lottery on airlines that give you cash money for delaying your flight. Then I remembered I haven't been on a plane for non work purposes since 2009.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
As I recall, the Pilots Union is a majority stakeholder in the company and that it is owned by the employees.Holman wrote:Has it come out yet who made the call on this?
Obviously the CEO is responsible for the company's poor handling of the aftermath, but who called in the police rather than upping the offer of bonus money/miles/peanut packets?
I assume the captain was at fault, and I think I know someone who just lost a pair of wings.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Good Kimmel take.
I think there are a few things about this particular incident that make it go beyond the pale, regardless of whether or not United had the right to do what they did:
I think there are a few things about this particular incident that make it go beyond the pale, regardless of whether or not United had the right to do what they did:
- Passengers had already boarded. If you've oversold the flight, figure your shit out before you invite your markscustomers to board the plane. If you've boarded the plane, then lie in the bed you've made.
- They only went up to $800 in compensation offers. That's not a high number. I've seen significantly higher, and Southwest has doled out that much to me for much more minor events beyond their control. This is probably the single biggest issue for me: it's such a remarkably tone-deaf, shortsighted dick move that some actuary likely decided would save the company a few dollars at the expense of customer satisfaction. This flight was an Embraer E170--an 80-seat plane. They needed 4 volunteers. They bump that compensation to $1200 or $1500, they get a dozen volunteers guaranteed. That's $6k in compensation vs $400M market cap hit plus untold negative press. Of course you can argue that United didn't know what was coming when they called the police, and you'd be right. But any rational evaluation of the situation pitting $4k-$6k in compensation vs a jet full of customerssocial media recording devices preparing to broadcast the police removing humans should quickly view $4k-$6k as a PR steal even had this situation resolved itself according to United's plan. Especially given that since United was considering involuntary bumping and getting those passengers to their destination > 2 hours later than originally scheduled, they were already legally required to pay each involuntarily-bumped passenger 400% of their fare, up to $1350 apiece, in addition to placing them on another flight. So effectively the $800 they were offering while looking for volunteers was a $0 goodwill gesture since $800 is their legal minimum on a (my guess) $200 ticket, anyway.
- United wasn't even kicking customers because they oversold the flight. They had all paying passengers seated, then later decided to pull paying passengers in order to move United employees to Louisville. Buy tickets for your crew on another airline if you must (extremely likely to be <$5k in cost). Or get them a rental vehicle for the 5-hour drive as an alternative.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
United is just lucky that man was not a Navy Seal.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Lol, my favorite
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
The guy is 69, I wonder if maybe he's in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's with sundowning? Would explain why he was so non-compliant.
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Latest Ive read.
United now apologizing and saying that should never happen and are reviewing policy and will change.
The passenger has claimed it was because he is Chinese. Now China(where United is the top class carrier) wants a boycott along with many in US
Stocks going badly. United scared.
The guard who did it is removed from work.
United now saying flight was NOT overbooked.
United now apologizing and saying that should never happen and are reviewing policy and will change.
The passenger has claimed it was because he is Chinese. Now China(where United is the top class carrier) wants a boycott along with many in US
Stocks going badly. United scared.
The guard who did it is removed from work.
United now saying flight was NOT overbooked.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Why in this reality is this not the first response and instinctual? You don't even have to admit fault in your apology. Acknowledge the outcome is unacceptable at the time of social media publication and go from there. I really really really don't understand why that is so hard. Is it a legal thing? "That wasn't right. We're looking in to the incident to mitigate against this sort of event in the future."Daehawk wrote:United now apologizing and ... are reviewing policy
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Could go..."As CEO I find what happened disturbing and appalling to myself personally. We are now looking into exactly what happened and how it happened. All employees of United involved in this incident are immediately put on leave while a full investigation is begun. To those on the plane I personally apologize for this and to those who have simply viewed it online I assure you that a full review and overhaul of our policy in underway. I ask that you dont jump to conclusions and allow us time..allow me time....to suss* this out. (*I got to use suss!). Thank you."
Thats all that should have happened to start with. Instead the first thing United and the CEO did was blame the customer and at the very least not have their own story / facts straight.
Thats all that should have happened to start with. Instead the first thing United and the CEO did was blame the customer and at the very least not have their own story / facts straight.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Or charter a plane. I know Delta has their own business jets. Do not know if they use them to move crews around or if they are just for high rollers. But yea they should of just upped the compensation until someone bit. A lot of poor judgement at that gate.Zaxxon wrote:[*]United wasn't even kicking customers because they oversold the flight. They had all paying passengers seated, then later decided to pull paying passengers in order to move United employees to Louisville. Buy tickets for your crew on another airline if you must (extremely likely to be <$5k in cost). Or get them a rental vehicle for the 5-hour drive as an alternative. [/list]
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Hell if I was in no hurry I would have bit at the $800 and free room if it still included my ticket. $800 for a day of doing nothing is good pay. Thats a month of money to me.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Cash money and no mandatory time sensitive stuff for me to attend to on the other end, I'd jump at the chance. $800 in vouchers not so much. $800 cash is more'n I take home in a week.Daehawk wrote:Hell if I was in no hurry I would have bit at the $800 and free room if it still included my ticket. $800 for a day of doing nothing is good pay. Thats a month of money to me.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
You owe me a new keyboard.naednek wrote:Lol, my favorite
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Alas, it's the nature of hidebound oligopoly.LordMortis wrote:Why in this reality is this not the first response and instinctual? You don't even have to admit fault in your apology. Acknowledge the outcome is unacceptable at the time of social media publication and go from there. I really really really don't understand why that is so hard. Is it a legal thing? "That wasn't right. We're looking in to the incident to mitigate against this sort of event in the future."Daehawk wrote:United now apologizing and ... are reviewing policy
I thought this LA Times op-ed drew an interesting parallel with the "toxic corporate culture" of Wells Fargo:
LA Times wrote:The airline and banking industries may seem to be about as different as chalk and cheese, but United Airlines and Wells Fargo have been shown to share a common bond: toxic corporate cultures that can be blamed on the men at the top, their chief executives.
Wells Fargo’s John Stumpf is gone, having resigned last October in the aftermath of the bank’s fraudulent account scandal. United’s Oscar Munoz only took office in September 2015. This week’s crisis over the airline’s violent deplaning of passenger David Dao to make room for a traveling crewmember was a major test of his leadership, and he flunked. Munoz’s response to the incident, like Stumpf’s tolerance of the misbehavior of one of his top lieutenants and her employees, threaten to make things immeasurably worse for his company’s customers. For a CEO, that’s a cardinal sin.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Indeed - this is the nature of modern American Corporate culture. It extends far beyond airlines or banks. For those of us in it this is what we see everyday from the upwardly mobile. A willingness to move forward no matter what the cost or who else suffers.Anonymous Bosch wrote:Alas, it's the nature of hidebound oligopoly.
I thought this LA Times op-ed drew an interesting parallel with the "toxic corporate culture" of Wells Fargo:
LA Times wrote:The airline and banking industries may seem to be about as different as chalk and cheese, but United Airlines and Wells Fargo have been shown to share a common bond: toxic corporate cultures that can be blamed on the men at the top, their chief executives.
Wells Fargo’s John Stumpf is gone, having resigned last October in the aftermath of the bank’s fraudulent account scandal. United’s Oscar Munoz only took office in September 2015. This week’s crisis over the airline’s violent deplaning of passenger David Dao to make room for a traveling crewmember was a major test of his leadership, and he flunked. Munoz’s response to the incident, like Stumpf’s tolerance of the misbehavior of one of his top lieutenants and her employees, threaten to make things immeasurably worse for his company’s customers. For a CEO, that’s a cardinal sin.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Or, you know, he might just have felt the airline was in the wrong and was standing his ground.em2nought wrote:The guy is 69, I wonder if maybe he's in the beginning stages of Alzheimer's with sundowning? Would explain why he was so non-compliant.
The New York Times and a few other newspapers have claimed he's Vietnamese...then went on to note he was a convicted felon. Why the hell does that matter? He was punished for his crimes. But hey, let's assume he's not worthy of being treated with dignity any more!Daehawk wrote:Latest Ive read.
United now apologizing and saying that should never happen and are reviewing policy and will change.
The passenger has claimed it was because he is Chinese. Now China(where United is the top class carrier) wants a boycott along with many in US
Stocks going badly. United scared.
The guard who did it is removed from work.
United now saying flight was NOT overbooked.
Covfefe!
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Chinese paper wrote that the guy's some sort of oncolgist. Whatever.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Anonymous Bosch wrote:I thought this LA Times op-ed drew an interesting parallel with the "toxic corporate culture" of Wells Fargo:
Taking 2 days to come up with the right lip service is why I imagine this might be remembered and held against them. We'll see. People don't tend to be forgive and forget when it comes to faceless corporations. I'd think people generally having an unpleasant experience with United will remember this incident and look for different options. On a related note, I wonder how Spirit Air stays in business. Literally, anyone I know who's flown them twice don't even consider them a third time.In a third statement issued Tuesday, Munoz finally made the right noises. “I deeply apologize to the customer forcibly removed and to all the customers aboard, he said. “No one should ever be mistreated this way.”
He pledged to “work to make it right” via a “thorough review” of passenger bumping policies as well as United’s relationship with local law enforcement agencies, with a public report due by April 30.
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
A year from now, if someone does an Orbitz search and the United option comes up $30 cheaper than the next one, I'm guessing they're clicking on United.LordMortis wrote:Taking 2 days to come up with the right lip service is why I imagine this might be remembered and held against them. We'll see. People don't tend to be forgive and forget when it comes to faceless corporations. I'd think people generally having an unpleasant experience with United will remember this incident and look for different options. On a related note, I wonder how Spirit Air stays in business. Literally, anyone I know who's flown them twice don't even consider them a third time.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
- McNutt
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
Most protests end when the price is significantly cheaper.ImLawBoy wrote: A year from now, if someone does an Orbitz search and the United option comes up $30 cheaper than the next one, I'm guessing they're clicking on United.
- UsulofDoom
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Re: United Breaks Guitars (and now, faces!)
I love this one.
If I make a grammar or spelling mistake, PM me. I will correct it. It’s better than you being an asshole!
No one knows the truth, only hypothesis, assumptions, conjectures, speculations, presumptions, guesses and theories.
We are not Gods, but nature. No more than one of many dominate species that will inhabit this planet for a short period of time, on its ever so long journey through the universe.
No one knows the truth, only hypothesis, assumptions, conjectures, speculations, presumptions, guesses and theories.
We are not Gods, but nature. No more than one of many dominate species that will inhabit this planet for a short period of time, on its ever so long journey through the universe.