Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for AMC

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:01 pm

My favorite bit was at the very beginning when Alpha was in the flashback with her daughter. A victim gets swarmed...and Alpha, as part of her act, pretends to be eating alongside the Zeds. I highly doubt the dead are judging your thespian abilities when you walk amongst them.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:28 pm

New ep report. I have to say last night's episode was one of the better/best ones in a long long time. It just goes to show that with the right combo of writers, actors and director, you *can* field multiple plot lines with multiple sets of characters and still advance the main storyline. It kind of makes last week's Alpha/Beta standalone ep seem even more misplaced, but whatever. Was this just a fluke and luck of the draw? We'll see.

As either a consequence of the fire and explosion in the premiere, or directed from the whisperers, we start the episode in grand style with a ton of zombie killing. It's fantastic to see the "best" of the bunch doing what they do best: kill zombies!! Of course watching each of our stars slaughter one after another zombie, I can't help but go nerdy and wonder at what point the living should start outnumbering the dead? When the show started circa 2010 there were around 300+ million people living in the US. Let's say roughly 1/3 are around the east coast region, that's 100 million. Hmmm, well I guess that's still a ton of people. But each of our stars has probably killed thousands of zombies by this point, there has to be a turning point/time where it starts to thin out? Anyway, wave after wave is coming in toward our heroes and they are getting worn down slaughtering them. The point being that everyone is getting tired and grouchy from sleep deprivation and exhaustion.

The biggest and best impact is on Carol, who is taking speed or something to stay awake because she's still haunted by images of poor dead Henry. She starts to have delusions and they play it well so you don't know if what you are seeing is only in her head. It's a classic horror movie trick but used really well in this ep. Anyway, there's a great confrontation scene between Carol and Alpha, which we'd all been waiting for. Alpha is a real bitch and taunts Carol (or does she?) leading to Carol grabbing a hidden gun to go for an easy head shot. Sadly she is stopped by Michonne. Now I had to pause here to yell at the screen. Why the F not just let her take the shot? Kill Alpha, kill Beta and take your chances with the rest of them with no leader. In the comic it seemed more dangerous because it felt like they didn't need distinctive leadership to keep doing their whispering crap. But in the show they've established Alpha as such a strong leader it makes no sense to not just take her off the board. I realize there would be no show in this case, but the setup here was a little lacking in logic. I guess we are supposed to assume they don't know enough about the whisperers - but Lydia could have told them how dominant Alpha is. (Side note: I suspect that given how Alpha seems to know everything they do, someone is going to be revealed as a spy or traitor. Could it be Lydia? )

The rest of the ep is filled with lots of good stuff. Negan vs Aaron was a fantastic pairing. Possibly the two best actors on the show going at it was wonderful. They had so much chemistry I made a joke on Instagram that I was going to start shipping them, which incidentally got a "Like" from Ross Marquand himself!!! Eugene was fun to watch as a pretty decent zombie killer and caretaker - just until he got permanently friend zoned by Rosita. Ouch! Great stuff though. Michonne had a couple of sweet scenes with Judith and RJ as well as good interaction with Carol and Daryl.

I know I'm forgetting some stuff, the ep just felt really packed with content. Action, horror, romance, humor, frustration, a little bit of everything.

Next week looks like the focus is on Hilltop with the rest of the gang, let's hope for another strong outing.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:42 pm

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I don't think last night's episode that good. Maybe average. I had a hard time imagining Carol would get herself addicted to drugs - it just seemed out of character for her given all she's overcome. Plus, I was half expecting her to start screaming, "I'm so excited...I'm so excited..." at some point.

I guess I understand Aaron's issues to a degree, but at some point you either trust him with your life or you don't. I feel bad for Eugene, but I totally get why he persists. Sadly, it's just not meant to be.

I still don't quite get Alpha. Between her southern accent (?) that's not quite a southern accent and her random responses to things. Three strikes then we take something? That seems weird. Then someone legitimately almost kills her and she doesn't even blink? I can't help but wonder how a full-strength / classic Negan would be dealing with her. She's creepy, but for the wrong reasons.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:31 pm

I too thought it was a strong episode, one of the better ones in a while. Got me a little excited for things to come hoping for more strong episodes. They'll probably crush my hopes in the next one though...

Z-Corn · Post by **Z-Corn** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:02 pm

I think all-in-all Angela Kang has been a breath of fresh air to the show. You can see that she's got an enthusiasm for the characters and isn't afraid to change the tone and the style, for what I think is the better.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:36 am

One of the reviews had a great headline for the episode. Half of Tonight's Walking Dead Was Fantastic, the Rest Was a Saved by the Bell Episode.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:49 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:42 pm I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I don't think last night's episode that good. Maybe average. I had a hard time imagining Carol would get herself addicted to drugs - it just seemed out of character for her given all she's overcome. Plus, I was half expecting her to start screaming, "I'm so excited...I'm so excited..." at some point.

I guess I understand Aaron's issues to a degree, but at some point you either trust him with your life or you don't. I feel bad for Eugene, but I totally get why he persists. Sadly, it's just not meant to be.

I still don't quite get Alpha. Between her southern accent (?) that's not quite a southern accent and her random responses to things. Three strikes then we take something? That seems weird. Then someone legitimately almost kills her and she doesn't even blink? I can't help but wonder how a full-strength / classic Negan would be dealing with her. She's creepy, but for the wrong reasons.

I suspect after the last season of FTWD my standards have dropped significantly lol.

Everything you brought up is valid, but I think given some of the other poor decisions they've made (losing Carl, Rick and Maggie all essentially in one season?), there's only so much we can hope for. I think the writers and even many of the actors are obsessed with Samantha Morton the actress, and while I admit she's good, she's not that good, and in some ways I think their deferring to her is weakening the storyline. They are writing her like she's some sort of uber villain one moment, but the next they want to humanize her. Again, I thought last week's ep was a mistake in terms of when they showed it, and even conceptually. What would have been better is to convey that the Whisperers are/were so big and vast that losing Alpha wouldn't really mean much in terms of their overall power. It's been a long while but that's what I vaguely recall from the comics. Now it seems like the entire Whisperer concept is dictated by Alpha and Beta, so killing her would essentially end the threat. It doesn't seem like she has any enhanced combat training or abilities, or superhuman strength or whatever, so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:46 pm

Was there ever an explanation given as to why Eugene wasn't making bullets after the Savior arc? It seems to me like that should be his number one priority. Heck if they had enough ammo they could completely destroy the Whisperers.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:38 pm

Scraper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:46 pm Was there ever an explanation given as to why Eugene wasn't making bullets after the Savior arc? It seems to me like that should be his number one priority. Heck if they had enough ammo they could completely destroy the Whisperers.

I think they kind of forgot about that and there are discussions on reddit about it, and the availability of bullets in general, in case you are bored lol.

There was also some analysis of approx. how many people might still be alive, and someone mentioned a ratio of about 5000 walkers to 1 person. Which again re-enforces my question as to when the ratio of living to dead starts to flip the other way. When you have each hero killing hundreds of walkers per year, and multi-year time jumps, the numbers have to start dwindling at some point, don't they?

EvilHomer3k · Post by **EvilHomer3k** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:43 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:36 am One of the reviews had a great headline for the episode. Half of Tonight's Walking Dead Was Fantastic, the Rest Was a Bad Saved by the Bell Episode.

Fixed this for you. It wasn't good when they did it on SBtB and wasn't good here either.

Couple of other notes. Negan seemed to actually want to go kill zombies. It seemed that they were having hims use very obvious reverse psychology on Gabriel.

I really dislike their treatment of Neegan. One minute he's redeemed and the next he's evil incarnate. Yeah, no one is always good or bad but the swings are really annoying.

When they leave the whisperers and Carol sees 3 whisperers they're with a group. Then, suddenly, the group's gone and it's just Michonne, Daryl, and Carol. Where did everyone else go? Oh, they're just back at Alexandria. They're fine.

As they often do, the writers show something in one episode that shows potential (the phalanx used in EP1) only to completely abandon it the next (same with Eugene making bullets). There's no consistency from episode to episode, you have to make big leaps where they show you one thing and then, yeah, they got out of that. No biggie. It's really annoying. Its like the writers are all underpants gnomes.
1. Zombies
2. ???
3. Squirrel

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:50 am

I'm not seeing the swings in Negan's character that you are. He wants to be a better person but he also likes trolling people. It seems to be a defense mechanism for him. As for running off from Aaron, Aaron was being a bit of a dick to him (not that he doesn't have good reason to, mind you) in bringing up his dead wife. Her loss is obviously what broke him and created the old Negan.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:29 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:50 am I'm not seeing the swings in Negan's character that you are. He wants to be a better person but he also likes trolling people. It seems to be a defense mechanism for him. As for running off from Aaron, Aaron was being a bit of a dick to him (not that he doesn't have good reason to, mind you) in bringing up his dead wife. Her loss is obviously what broke him and created the old Negan.

I agree. I think they've done a good job with Negan all in all. It seems fairly clear they wanted to put him on a semi-redemptive path, particularly with the one episode last season where he left and came back. He's a pragmatist above all, he knows he needs others to survive. The loss of his wife, then the power and insanity of the world obviously all went to his head, but I think we were always meant to believe there was a heart somewhere in there, the same one that made him partial to Carl (and then Judith), plus all the years in prison have changed him. Obviously there's still that darkness lurking, and the snarky confident attitude, and his killing skills, etc.

I do agree, though, that in general these writers lack consistency (the Morgan character is a great example). This is something that drives me crazy in superhero or fantasy or sci-fi shows. It's like a writer comes in and hasn't read half of the old episodes or studied prior seasons. If I were running a show there would be a bible (now online of course) with all the details that everyone could consult. It's not freaking rocket science. I can understand in the old pre-internet days it might have been hard to have everything collected in one spot that could easily be shared amongst writers, but in today's world there's just no excuse.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:17 pm

And we're back!

This ep turned out to be better than I thought, though it did feel a bit disjointed. I was expecting a completely Hilltop-centric episode from the previews, but instead we got a decent follow up from last week. They may have tried to do a little too much in terms of ensemble plotting this week, as they seemed to jump between Alexandria and Hilltop without much clarity and it got to be a little confusing, at least for me.

Points of interest:

- A nice tease of Michonne/Ezekiel, with a nod to the comics. I suspect had she decided to stay they might have went this route, but instead they just played with it. A little awkward all in all but hopefully it will allow them to do something with the Ezekiel character, which now seems to serve zero purpose. If he had killed himself it would have made almost no impact on the show.

- What's happened to Hilltop? Pretty much everyone we knew before is gone or dead, what a jinx place to live. It's so bad that the heroes protecting the place are pretty much entirely made of the new folks that were brought in last year. I guess that's OK as they are interesting so far, but it's just a little sad and disturbing: Henry, Tara, Enid, Maggie, Jesus - pretty much all the characters we associated with Hilltop are gone or dead. At least there is some hot lesbian sex going on now, but that's about all they have going for them. I didn't get why Magda was whining about her girlfriend taking charge, maybe some lesbian relationship thing.

- Best Scene goes to Judith doing her impression of Yoda and slicing/dicing zombies like a little ninja next to Michonne. It was worth the whole ep just to see that one minute or two. A couple of other good scenes with her and Michonne as well.

- Main plotline involved Lydia suffering from prejudices and people blaming her for the bad stuff going on. Well, the fact is it is kind of her fault but whatever. Daryl keeps trying to protect her, because it's his fault for supporting her. But the only one who really sticks up for her is GoodNegan, who then gets blamed for an accident when helping her. Kind of contrived but they needed to move this plot forward so that Negan can go infiltrate The Whisperers. Anyway, it looks like there is clearly a spy in Alexandria screwing with the gang, trying to turn them against each other from within. My money is on the new doctor guy, something about him gives me a bad vibe. I don't even remember where he came from. There actually aren't a whole lot of choices.

I give the overall ep a B, I'm interested to see how the season unfolds. Honestly they could end the Whisperers plot really quickly if they wanted to, but I suspect they will find a way to drag it on a while. We'll see.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:21 pm

Considering the obvious fragility of the average citizen of Alexandria as evidenced by Negan killing one of them via a slight shove, I would think headgear would be mandatory.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:21 pm

the only good thing about that episode was the song.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:03 am

Looks like they're following the Negan storyline from the comic pretty closely...which is good. That was one of the few "redemption" style stories that worked.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:31 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:03 am Looks like they're following the Negan storyline from the comic pretty closely...which is good. That was one of the few "redemption" style stories that worked.

The entire nut tap scene was cringe worthy. Actually all of Negan's scenes up until he kills the kid were cringe worthy.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:42 am

For some reason, he's not bugging me as much as he did when he first debuted. I've actually grown to like Jeffrey Dean Morgan's portrayal of the character. It's not the comic book version of Negan in most cases, but he does capture some of the irreverence of the character without going overboard.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:18 pm

Scraper wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:31 am
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:03 am Looks like they're following the Negan storyline from the comic pretty closely...which is good. That was one of the few "redemption" style stories that worked.
The entire nut tap scene was cringe worthy. Actually all of Negan's scenes up until he kills the kid were cringe worthy.

ya, i'm not one for being too nitpicky when it comes to TWD, but man almost anything that involved Neegan on that episode was horrible in every way.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:31 pm

I am, and have always been, a huge fan of his portrayal of Negan. His tone, his personality, his swagger - it all works. I'm still not fully caught up in the comic (I'm on the 3rd compendium) and I can clearly see how JDM's interpretation flows from the source material. It's not 100% identical, but I think it works for this show.

I liked this episode. I am curious to see where it's all going, that's for sure.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:17 pm

When he first showed up, it felt like he was trying to channel Johnny Depp from the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. But eventually his portrayal grew on me. I actually have sympathy for the character now, and considering his previous actions, that's quite an achievement.

His connecting to the kid over stories about attacking other men's nutsacks came across as a sincere attempt by a former bully to speak to another human being. He's awkward at it (because...well...he was a bully), but yet there's an honesty to it that you can see and feel.

Also, I'll be disappointed if that one line above doesn't make it into someone's signature.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:04 pm

I've been good with Negan on the TV show overall and as mentioned it looks like they are moving along similar to the comic plot which was probably the best part of the Whisperer story. I do think he suffers without someone good to play off of. He had some good stuff with Rick and Carl, even dead Carl's letter lol. I know I'm a broken record, but yet again the choice to lose Carl crippled a key relationship that drove the series, and the Negan character continues to suffer because of it. They've tried to work some of the interesting things in with Judith and now Aaron, but it's not the same. Hopefully they can do something special with Maggie when she returns, as that should really be the ultimate character for Negan to play off of.

Back to this ep - I was hoping they would have progressed with Negan joining the Whisperers a little quicker, but all in all it was OK for me. Looks like what I was anticipating is happening next week. Bro-Brandon was pretty hilarious, and it was basically just a countdown to when he would die. Has he been in the show before? I didn't think they'd kill off those new characters like that, it was pretty rough (particularly the kid) relatively speaking.

I wasn't thrilled with the lesbian bed death subplot, it just seemed out of place. They've known each other 13 years, been together who knows how long, and yet NOW is when they start evaluating their relationship? Magda stealing crap was kind of interesting, it just seemed egregious given the multi-year time jump. I could see her being nervous and distrustful earlier on, consistent with the way they introduced her, but this is like 5(?) years later? It looked like they pretty much run Hilltop, she could have just suggested an emergency bunker in general.

I don't really recall if anything else significant happened. Oh! I remember now, after all the other crap they decide to give Ezekiel thyroid cancer? Ugh.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:30 pm

The Magda subplot seemed pretty haphazard. You can’t just have your characters suddenly change that much without some kind of reason beyond “just ‘cause”.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:54 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:30 pm The Magda subplot seemed pretty haphazard. You can’t just have your characters suddenly change that much without some kind of reason beyond “just ‘cause”.

It almost felt like she was bored with life in the apocalypse and wanted to stir up some drama in her relationship. I guess she's the type that constantly needs drama in her life. Cuz the end of the world and living dead is not enough drama.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:46 pm

So finally we get to what I thought last week's episode was going to be, Negan infiltrating the Whisperers and going up against Beta. I thought it made for some great/funny scenes and it was a nice showcase for Jeffrey Dean Morgan to get to be a more freewheeling Negan again, but this time in a place where he has to adapt and be subservient. The scenes all worked well for me but felt kind of predictable. It's so far playing out almost exactly as I imagined it should from what little I remember about the comics.

What was less predictable was the Carol and Daryl plotline, which should have been a highlight but I honestly found it kind of boring. I don't think it helped that I had been playing Death Stranding earlier, and I kept marveling at the amount of detail they had in the game to capture Daryl, down to the little skull tattoo on his hand. So maybe it's my own fault for being kind of distracted. I still like their scenes together, and I like that at least one person in the group is actually being proactive. I mean let's face it the Whisperers have all but did a direct frontal attack, and our guys are too busy whining about their girlfriends or who is lonely or not. The relationship and trust issues make for some good content, but it seems like there's something missing or off - how is it that our group has become so passive? Why is Carol the lone ranger making moves?

On that topic, we have all of Alexandria obviously suffering from some sort of poisoning and it occurs to no one that it could be their water source? Sigh. Of course if the doctor is a Whisperer spy as I've conjectured, I guess this kind of makes sense since the other guy (Caleb?) is wigging out.

Then we have Eugene sadly whining about being lonely, and then magically he gets to talk to some rando on the radio. Or is he just imagining it? Given they did that plot already with Rick hopefully not. His new lady friend seems a bit suspicious to me but oh well.

I'm not sure what went wrong for me this ep. On paper it seemed like a lot of really interesting things going down but I found myself kind of dis-interested. Maybe I'm just getting jaded.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:20 pm

I find Eugene so relatable (awkward nerd that has trouble with the ladies) - I don't know if he's supposed to be the target audience's point of reference, but man, I really feel for him. I hope the radio storyline isn't a throwaway but at the same time, I also hope it's not a major (bad ending) plot point.

I'm having a hard time believing the Whisperers don't outright kill Negan (why don't they?) - his reputation can't possibly precede him at this point and even if it did, I'd still be more inclined to believe they'd kill him. Do they really think he's going to share secrets with them? Is that the only reason he's still alive? I get why he's joining (at a minimum it's the safest option, at best he's up to something), it just feels wrong for them to let him in.

I don't really know what to make of Carol and Daryl. I think so much of what they are has been lost because of the storyline Fast Forward. Daryl doesn't seem all that different, but Carol isn't quite right.

No idea what to make of the super flu story arc. Didn't we do this already?

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:50 pm

At some point in the past season or two they completely stopped killing main characters and it has hurt the show. I don't know if they just decided that the TV blow back from Glenn was too much - but this is the damned walking dead. People need to die.

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:08 am

msduncan wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:50 pm At some point in the past season or two they completely stopped killing main characters and it has hurt the show. I don't know if they just decided that the TV blow back from Glenn was too much - but this is the damned walking dead. People need to die.

I think captain fist bump cop not cop was the last long time cast member to die. She doesn't exactly count as a main character. Before that I think it was Coral. They left the door open for both Rick and Maggie to come back.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:17 am

They killed off at least 3 main characters in one episode alone last season.

Spoiler:

It was a veritable bloodbath. And yes, I would say they were main characters.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:42 pm

Well now, THAT was unexpected. Kudos to TWD for some excellent misdirection and a sly twist that I did not see coming for once.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:42 pm Well now, THAT was unexpected. Kudos to TWD for some excellent misdirection and a sly twist that I did not see coming for once.

About 10 minutes before it happened, I told my wife, I don't trust that dude, wonder if he's a spy.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:59 pm

As cool as that was, I was a bit surprised (and not in a good way) with Carol and Lydia - namely how that ended. Also surprised that everyone was seemingly ok with torturing the captive (if you accept that pressing a wound that has been sutured is torture). Both plot points seemed like character departures, though I guess they both involve Carol and she hasn't been right. Maybe kicking her pill habit turned her into a psycho or something. It just felt weird.

Given the major plot points involving the prisoner, Lydia and Gamma, I don't understand then how this inside person was able to stay on mission. Clearly everything he'd been told by Alpha was a lie.

So yeah, it was a twist but I'm struggling with the deets.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:35 pm

We're still 2-3 episodes behind, so I'm not caught up on this thread; I just want to say that the season has been better than expected. I really thought I was done with this show, and after FTWD left a bad taste in my mouth I wasn't even sure I wanted to return to TWD. But it's drawn me back in and, I daresay, gotten me looking forward to more. That's an achievement for a show this old.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:42 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:42 pm Well now, THAT was unexpected. Kudos to TWD for some excellent misdirection and a sly twist that I did not see coming for once.

Which part was unexpected? If you read any of my posts from the past month you'd have seen I guessed the new doctor was the spy. Or maybe you are referring to something else?

Since they couldn't have the love square go on indefinitely, and since Gabriel seems to have some sort of survival card, Siddiq was bound to be the odd man out. I suspect they still want to pay some fan service and let Eugene get with Rosita at some point, who knows. Not to mention the TWD doctor curse is still in full effect lol. But definitely agree with Smoove that it doesn't make much sense that he's 100% on board with Alpha. Maybe he's less of the cult follower type and more just a straight up bad guy. It's still hard to believe anyone would willingly choose the Whisperer lifestyle after having lived in relative normalcy for so long.

I thought the very end was not so much surprising as it was irritating. The implication in their previous scene was that Carol was going to give Lydia the choice as to whether or not to confront the prisoner and show him her mother was a liar, and she had already agreed to do so before he died. If so, then why would she act so surprised/hurt that that was the SAME thing she was going to do with Gamma? Maybe I missed something, but it seemed totally off to me. Gamma totally flipping out and weeping like a baby seemed off too, but I guess we are supposed to assume she is feeling extra betrayed after offing her own sister.

As far as the torture, I thought it played well enough, especially the opening move with the food. Carol has shown she's the only one left who knows how to get shit done old school; everyone else seems to have been neutered by the years of relative peace. As for it being inconsistent, don't forget this is the same Carol who shot two crazy kids to put them down, killed those people in the prison, burned an entire camp of Sanctuary leftovers, etc. We used to think Rick was the one who would go to any length, but Carol has walked a much more dangerous line than Rick ever did. With the added "revenge for Henry" incentive, it seemed perfectly in character to me for her to step up.

In spite of not being a Siddiq fan, I thought this was a solid episode leading into the fall finale. Seems like someone else will die next week to be a surprise guest star on Talking Dead, likely just Dante. I had thought for a moment it might be Michonne's last ep but I read she's already filmed episodes ahead so she should be good for at least a few more in the back half. Still really curious how they can write her out effectively without taking Judith with her. The simplest exit would be she takes her kids on the road and goes to search for Rick after maybe they hear something on the radio or whatever. But I don't think the show can sustain losing her AND Judith, so it gets more dicey. Killing her off seems like a tactical mistake, and I feel like the franchise can't afford any more major fanbase losses. Should be interesting.

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:51 pm

Really good mid-season finale for the most part, IMHO.

First few minutes were great, as was the entire handling of Dante's storyline. As I predicted, he was not long for this world, but a nice surprise on how he was taken out. This was probably the best plotline I've seen for both Father Gabriel and Rosita in years, possibly for the entire series. I was happy to see them get something meaty for once, because honestly I've felt like they both have outlasted potentially better side characters.

I also really enjoyed Carol and Daryl this episode, the interaction felt better for whatever reason. I like that Daryl finally confronted her and she showed some signs of finally opening up. Of course the way Carol likes to manipulate people, maybe this too was an act, but it felt genuine and I enjoyed the scenes regardless. What I didn't enjoy as much was the way our super group runs right into a trap. I mean come on, surely someone would have hesitated or screamed or something so that the entire group didn't go bouncing down a super dark cave. Sure it makes for a great location and setup for the next half of the season, but the lead in felt too forced and obvious.

Finally we get to what I discussed last week, Michonne. In another mental puzzler, she decides to go off on some half baked adventure to get more "weapons" from some island that a rando claims to be from. Really shouldn't these people know better by this point? Even if rando is telling the truth, is it really worth sending your number one leader, mother of two young children, to investigate? Why not send a scout? I suppose you could say they just don't trust anyone else to go and she is the only one badass enough to handle trouble if it's a trap? But more likely it's just a way to be able to write her out of the majority of the back half. We know she's filmed at least one more episode (out of cycle) so perhaps that's it. But having her die on some random remote island from trusting some random remote dude just seems totally horrible. Sending her to a spinoff movie with Rick would be a much better idea, but then it would seem odd for them to not do anything to get back to the kids. It feels like the writers are yet again digging themselves a hole that they simply aren't capable of digging themselves out of.

I await anxiously to see how it all turns out.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:19 pm

This first half of the season has been good and I actually am eager to see the rest of the season. Been a while since I felt that about the show.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:53 pm

I had my hopes up after the last couple of episodes, but the finale was weak.
Stupid decisions made by supposedly smart people.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:57 pm

I had a hard time accepting the characters for this last episode. Both Carol and Daryl bungling into a trap, knowing full-well it was likely to happen? Gabriel enacting vengeance after spending so many seasons as the moral anchor of the show? It all just felt off to me and now I'm thinking Maggie is going to return to the show with some mining equipment or a crane and somehow rescue everyone. I can't even get my mind around Michonne. No one else can go with Virgil to figure this out? She's really the best choice?

rittchard · Post by **rittchard** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:58 pm

In retrospect I think what we are supposed to believe is that Alpha is a mastermind manipulator and her combination of inside and outside tactics has worn the heroes down and driven them to make stupid mistakes. They are supposed to be tired and drained from all the fighting, scared, confused and angry about the spies, and physically ill from the poison, etc. It was kind of alluded to that Alpha was behind everything and trying to drive them crazy and make them prone to error. Unfortunately if this was the intention I don't think they conveyed it well. But then again I've never found Alpha particularly threatening either. It's interesting on the Talking Dead the polls are always picking Alpha as the scariest villain, but I've never found her that intimidating.

The writers seem to have a tough time making the heroes look both badass and vulnerable, not an easy thing to do but something that has to be done to make a show like this effective.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:39 pm

I think this is another problem with the time jump. So much has clearly happened to them in the years between the last season, but we as viewers aren't feeling what they are (IMHO). It's something that likely worked in the comics, but for the show it was seemingly done to simply advance the plot.

I 100% am confused over how everyone is fearing and/or raving about how great/scary Alpha is. Scarier than the governor? Scarier than the friendly cannibals? No, I don't think that's true.

I'm actually reading the comics now; I'm almost done with compendium #3 and it covers (I think) what was in the show last season and part of this season. It's interesting to see the subtle changes and having just been introduced to Alpha in the comics I'm still waiting to see how she is worked into the comic's story overall and if her character is portrayed any differently than what they did on the show. I understand completely they're two different things, but sometimes I wonder if things are lost in translation.