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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by tgb »

I'm not entirely convinced Eugene has turned to the Dark Side. He still has those cyanide capsules, which can still end up in the vessel with the pestle.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by Smoove_B »

Yeah, Eugene's smirk as he was walking away from the molten metal discussion was suggesting to me he's up to something. Yes, he knows what his limitations are and of course he's giving the appearance of compliance, but I don't think he's completely turned his back on his former crew. My impression is that he's being rather pragmatic about the whole thing and that will work until he's tested in a way that has him directly opposing (or causing harm to) Rick.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by gameoverman »

Remus West wrote:I think the contrast was them going in different directions. Eugene doesn't yet realize what it cost to be "Negan" while Dwight realizes full on what it has cost him.
Your idea is one I hadn't considered, and it's a good one, but I don't think it's what's happening. Eugene saw up close and personal what it costs. He saw Dwight and rest there when Negan wiped out his friends. Also, we saw that Dwight didn't join up voluntarily, Sherry convinced him that's the way to go. Eugene has no such person to help lead him astray. Finally, it was mentioned that Dwight might not be the smartest guy in the room but Eugene always is.

To me this adds up to Eugene just playing along, what else can you do in his predicament? He's forming plans alright but they're not for Negan's benefit. When Eugene says things like "I noticed you have a smelter" he's not making conversation and he's not making suggestions. He's making a mental note to himself that there's a smelter he can use for whatever sneaky plans he might form. That the person hearing that thinks it's Eugene playing ball is their mistake.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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gameoverman wrote:
Remus West wrote:I think the contrast was them going in different directions. Eugene doesn't yet realize what it cost to be "Negan" while Dwight realizes full on what it has cost him.
Your idea is one I hadn't considered, and it's a good one, but I don't think it's what's happening. Eugene saw up close and personal what it costs. He saw Dwight and rest there when Negan wiped out his friends. Also, we saw that Dwight didn't join up voluntarily, Sherry convinced him that's the way to go. Eugene has no such person to help lead him astray. Finally, it was mentioned that Dwight might not be the smartest guy in the room but Eugene always is.

To me this adds up to Eugene just playing along, what else can you do in his predicament? He's forming plans alright but they're not for Negan's benefit. When Eugene says things like "I noticed you have a smelter" he's not making conversation and he's not making suggestions. He's making a mental note to himself that there's a smelter he can use for whatever sneaky plans he might form. That the person hearing that thinks it's Eugene playing ball is their mistake.
Agreed. He has already proven he is capable of pulling off the long-con. When we first met him, he had convinced three or four other people that he was an expert working for the government and had the answer to the cure to the walker plague. He may be a coward in physical confrontations, but he is a manipulator to the core, especially when it involves other people protecting him. I think he has gotten himself into a situation where he feels he can finally contribute to the downfall of an enemy.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by Max Peck »

It's possible that he really would go all-in with the Saviors if he sees them as the best option for personal survival. My prediction is that he doesn't turn on Negan until he is put in a postion where supporting him would mean letting something bad happen to Tara. She's the one person that has always been supportive and understanding towards him without wanting anything from him, so that may prove to be the soft underbelly to his shell of self-interest.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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EvilHomer3k wrote: The other game mentioned is Warlords.
And that is a great game with four players and paddle controllers...
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by Kraken »

Eugene is two things: a self-professed coward, and a survivor. Negan is treating him better than Rick ever did, so I can see him changing his allegiance...at least for as long as it seems like the safe move.
Hyena wrote:
Agreed. He has already proven he is capable of pulling off the long-con. When we first met him, he had convinced three or four other people that he was an expert working for the government and had the answer to the cure to the walker plague. He may be a coward in physical confrontations, but he is a manipulator to the core, especially when it involves other people protecting him. I think he has gotten himself into a situation where he feels he can finally contribute to the downfall of an enemy.
That's a good point. I like that we aren't sure about him.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by Remus West »

Kraken wrote:Eugene is two things: a self-professed coward, and a survivor. Negan is treating him better than Rick ever did, so I can see him changing his allegiance...at least for as long as it seems like the safe move.
Hyena wrote:
Agreed. He has already proven he is capable of pulling off the long-con. When we first met him, he had convinced three or four other people that he was an expert working for the government and had the answer to the cure to the walker plague. He may be a coward in physical confrontations, but he is a manipulator to the core, especially when it involves other people protecting him. I think he has gotten himself into a situation where he feels he can finally contribute to the downfall of an enemy.
That's a good point. I like that we aren't sure about him.
I disagree that he is treating him better than Rick did. Negan is giving him "stuff" but Rick treats him as an equal. He may be safer from random threats with Negan since he will be inside the walls but he will never be Negan's friend. The more I think on it the more I think the idea of the long con is more true. I think he works with Negan until such a time as he can be sure to bring the whole thing down without endangering himself. Giving the "wives" poison to kill Negan would leave Eugene still in the compound with no protector and no real friends.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by tgb »

One thing that just occurred to me is that it was shortly after Eugene refused to turn the poison over to the wives that Negan told him he didn't have to be afraid any longer. I'm starting to think the whole thing was a trap that Eugene was smart enough to see through.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by Smoove_B »

I'd thought that as well - as it would have seemed a bit out of character for Negan to just trust Eugene sight unseen. But then I figured the wives weren't really loyal to Negan and saw Eugene as a genuine way out of the mess they're in. I'd also assumed if that was the real story, there would have been some confirmation that it was a test. I mean, the fact remains that Eugene took all the ingredients and made the pills. I'd think if Negan was trying to test him, he'd know all that and would want to know what happened to all the ingredients.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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tgb wrote:One thing that just occurred to me is that it was shortly after Eugene refused to turn the poison over to the wives that Negan told him he didn't have to be afraid any longer. I'm starting to think the whole thing was a trap that Eugene was smart enough to see through.
I thought that the room might have been bugged and/or videoed.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by gameoverman »

In this episode we saw, I think for the first time, that Negan can be played. He can be manipulated, he's not all knowing and all powerful. For that reason I don't think the pill thing was a test. Why not just ask Eugene for pills to kill Negan? Why all the drama about Amber wanting to kill herself? If that was because they thought Eugene would know it was a test if the plot was against Negan from the start, then that means they think Eugene is already suspicious and the test won't work anyways.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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gameoverman wrote:In this episode we saw, I think for the first time, that Negan can be played. He can be manipulated, he's not all knowing and all powerful. For that reason I don't think the pill thing was a test. Why not just ask Eugene for pills to kill Negan? Why all the drama about Amber wanting to kill herself? If that was because they thought Eugene would know it was a test if the plot was against Negan from the start, then that means they think Eugene is already suspicious and the test won't work anyways.
I figured that they didn't really trust that Eugene would back a play to kill Negan, but he may be nice enough to help a single person end their suffering.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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"Negan is a threat to all of us. We need to find as many guns as we can and take him out as soon as possible!"
"Look at all those guns over there. Let's get them and go back and kill Negan before he can hurt anybody else!"
"Nah. Let's just hang here for a couple of days and make out."
"OK."
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by Smoove_B »

He knows people are going to die. Emo Rick can't handle the loss of someone else - especially his best girl. The tone of last night's show was odd...it was like they were aiming for a bit of a romantic comedy, Walking Dead style.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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Rick was milking "happy fun sexy time" for all he could before the shit storm hits. I can't blame him for that.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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They couldn't rent a real deer? What's next? A CGI cat will walk across the screen in episode 13?

And it looks like they're not only sticking with the whole "We forgot how to use possessive pronouns" gang, they're doubling down by having even more people in that group talk like Mongo from Blazing Saddles.

And again, I can razz the show for things I find funny while still enjoying it.

Although it may just be CGI enjoyment.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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hepcat wrote:A CGI cat will walk across the screen in episode 13?
Twice.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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It's, like, just a show, eh?
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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If you're asking if it's a show, the answer is yes. If you're asking if we know it's a show, the answer is yes.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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Not really. S'all good.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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Jolor wrote:Not really. S'all good.
That doesn't return until next month. Or are you one of the Garbage Dump Kids?
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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Max Peck wrote:
hepcat wrote:A CGI cat will walk across the screen in episode 13?
Twice.
Like Deja Vu?
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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How has Rosarita survived this long without knowing to check out a strange house before stepping inside?
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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tgb wrote:How has Rosarita survived this long without knowing to check out a strange house before stepping inside?
I believe the answer you are looking for is Abraham.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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So, in an early scene, they show Rick and M come across some guys playing golf. The next scene shows them driving with what I assumed was that group's stuff. Did they rob them? Or am I missing some detail?

Also, was that a CGI golf club?
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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coopasonic wrote:
tgb wrote:How has Rosarita survived this long without knowing to check out a strange house before stepping inside?
I believe the answer you are looking for is Abraham.
You'd think she'd learned it for herself by now.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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hepcat wrote:So, in an early scene, they show Rick and M come across some guys playing golf. The next scene shows them driving with what I assumed was that group's stuff. Did they rob them? Or am I missing some detail?

Also, was that a CGI golf club?
I wondered about that myself and made the same assumption. Did they end up killing those guys? Would that have made them too unsympathetic, and that's why it wasn't shown?

Perhaps it was just a fuck up in editing.

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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by Smoove_B »

hepcat wrote:So, in an early scene, they show Rick and M come across some guys playing golf. The next scene shows them driving with what I assumed was that group's stuff. Did they rob them? Or am I missing some detail?

Also, was that a CGI golf club?
Uhhh...I don't know Rick, this doesn't seem like a good idea. <BELCH> Shut up M and hand me the <BELCH> crowbar. The two golfers were talking about Fat Joey's death - they were Saviors and I'd assumed they were murdered by Emo Rick. I mean, maybe they just grabbed the stuff without the golfers noticing and they left them alive...I can't image that would have been a smart move as it would have raised questions. So death...death seems likely.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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Ah, I didn't catch the line about Fat Joey. If they were part of Negan's group, and Rick offed them, that's much better than Rick patrolling the wastelands looking for PGA members to off.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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Smoove_B wrote:He knows people are going to die. Emo Rick can't handle the loss of someone else - especially his best girl. The tone of last night's show was odd...it was like they were aiming for a bit of a romantic comedy, Walking Dead style.
Tenderness has no place in this world. It was telegraphing the death of one character or the other...or maybe just setting us up for the fakeout (which did not sucker me in...major characters can only die in season enders).
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by naednek »

tgb wrote:How has Rosarita survived this long without knowing to check out a strange house before stepping inside?
more importantly, why is it that it's very quiet, and then all of a sudden the zombie is making their noises. Do zombies stop moaning?
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by Jolor »

I believe that walkers are activated with a 'near proximity sensor'. The sensors are water- and muck-proof as has been previously demonstrated. If there were stock markets in the apocalypse, my cash would be in NrPrx, for sure.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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hepcat wrote:So, in an early scene, they show Rick and M come across some guys playing golf. The next scene shows them driving with what I assumed was that group's stuff. Did they rob them? Or am I missing some detail?

Also, was that a CGI golf club?

I noticed that they looked at the items the golfers had. I assumed that they recognized stuff that Negan took from them and so understood that these were Negan's people. I also assume that any of Negan's people they catch outside town are 'kill on sight' targets. So they killed them, made them disappear, and take their stuff.

I was annoyed by a few things. Fall through the roof, again? Candlelight dinner, one or two candles yeah alright, I can believe that. That was too much. I couldn't enjoy chowing down on the food and having that cozy time knowing my people were miserable and that the food would be a godsend to them. That's just me I guess. Getting careless on the Ferris wheel, lame. How is 'kill all the zombies trying to eat you' not the default? The deer can wait. The comedy with the pull apart zombie was pretty good though. Your best sniper has to take the shot, that's a no brainer. You're only going to get one chance, and Rosita already screwed up once.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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gameoverman wrote:I was annoyed by a few things. Fall through the roof, again?
I told my wife, who doesn't really watch the show, but sits next to me as I watch it, "you know the last time there was a rooftop scene like this..." and then it happened.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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The roof thing again made me groan. Then the ferris wheel did again.

As for the golfers, we know they took stuff from them as Michonne mentions they had good taste in pretzels. Whether they killed them or not I don't know. I would assume that Negan wouldn't let his men just get killed without some sort of investigation. I imagine Negan's men are well provisioned and good at killing zombies. I believe he would get pretty suspicious if they just disappeared.

Overall, it was a decent episode but felt contrived. Seemed like a lot of lazy writing.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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coopasonic wrote:
gameoverman wrote:I was annoyed by a few things. Fall through the roof, again?
I told my wife, who doesn't really watch the show, but sits next to me as I watch it, "you know the last time there was a rooftop scene like this..." and then it happened.
I told my wife, "They should be walking around the edge and not in the middle where the water is standing; knowing their history with roofs." then :doh:
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by gameoverman »

About killing Negan's people, actually we've seen that it's not a big deal to Negan except under certain circumstances. Remember that guy Dwight ran into and brought back? It's not like there was a manhunt underway for him. What about the woman Michonne killed?

I think if Negan sends someone out for a specific reason and they never come back, then he will investigate starting with the place they went. This is why Rick and other leaders would be stupid to kill someone in their town. The two guys out in the middle of nowhere, doing nothing except practicing their golf swings, are prime candidates for never being seen again and it won't affect anyone. For all Negan knows those guys decided life with Negan wasn't for them and they left. Dwight left, remember? Losing people is an ongoing and regular thing for them.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

Post by EvilHomer3k »

But when Dwight left there was a large group that came after him, his wife, and the girl who needed insulin (or some other meds).

I assumed they stole the stuff because of how far away the truck was from them golfing and how they showed the view of them making it pretty clear that you could get to the back without being seen easily.
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Re: Frank Darabont to write/direct Walking Dead series for A

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That's what I was getting at with 'certain circumstances'. Dwight is high up in the chain of command. He took two women with him, and Negan likes women. That's why they went after him.

What I mean is, overall, losing people for one reason or another is nothing new to Negan by itself. If two flunkies who have the job of scavenging don't come back, what are Negan's options? Send out a party? Okay, the search party goes looking in the sector they were sent to scout. No one is there. Now what? They got torn apart by zombies, they got captured, they made a run for it. Either way, Negan won't be seeing them again unless they come back on their own or their captors make contact. There's not much else he can do.

As far as just stealing the stuff, yeah they could just have done that. I don't see why though. They had the advantage of surprise. If in the middle of stealing stuff the golfers get alerted to their presence then they lose the advantage. There's no upside to doing that. If they kill those guys, then they can take everything at their leisure with no downside. These are Negan's people, they plan to kill all of Negan's people anyways. Let's let them live so they can fight alongside Negan against us later...how about no?
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