Running

Debris · Post by **Debris** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:57 am

I started running/walking a few weeks ago and I really didn't seem like I was progressing as fast as I wanted. I'm now on my second week of Couch-to-5k and I'm really noticing a difference. I do all my running on our treadmill so I can keep track of my speed, time and distance very closely, which I believe is helping me to see my progress.

Is there a big transition from running on a treadmill to running on the street/track? I'm in Florida so there is no such thing as hills or inclines for me to worry about. Any tips?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:08 am

Debris wrote:Is there a big transition from running on a treadmill to running on the street/track? I'm in Florida so there is no such thing as hills or inclines for me to worry about. Any tips?

There is a difference; a small one due to wind resistance that you don't have inside (since you're not actually moving), and a bigger one due to the differing surfaces. If you're used to treadmills' relatively forgiving surface, you might want to start out on non-paved surfaces.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:11 am

Debris wrote:I do all my running on our treadmill so I can keep track of my speed, time and distance very closely, which I believe is helping me to see my progress.

If you have an ipod, Nike+ does all this for you while you run in the beautiful outdoors.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:18 am

Jeff V wrote:
Debris wrote:I do all my running on our treadmill so I can keep track of my speed, time and distance very closely, which I believe is helping me to see my progress.
If you have an ipod, Nike+ does all this for you while you run in the beautiful outdoors.

As will CardioTrainer or RunStar on an Android-powered phone.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:20 am

Debris wrote: Is there a big transition from running on a treadmill to running on the street/track? I'm in Florida so there is no such thing as hills or inclines for me to worry about. Any tips?

Try setting your treadmill to a 1% incline if you can. I find that helps make it feel more like running outdoors.

Other than that I'd just recommend switching to outdoor running ASAP. My mind goes numb if I do treadmill runs longer than 20-30 minutes, but outdoors an hour can go by without a moment of boredom.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:35 am

Zaxxon wrote:As will CardioTrainer or RunStar on an Android-powered phone.

CardioTrainer was rather flaky the last time I tried it. It had me gaining 3,000 feet in elevation in a run around my very, very flat 'hood.

Nike+ taps into a nice community, with online tools to help track things, another reason I prefer to use it. That, and the ipod is much smaller than my phone.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:53 am

Jeff V wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:As will CardioTrainer or RunStar on an Android-powered phone.
CardioTrainer was rather flaky the last time I tried it. It had me gaining 3,000 feet in elevation in a run around my very, very flat 'hood.

Nike+ taps into a nice community, with online tools to help track things, another reason I prefer to use it. That, and the ipod is much smaller than my phone.

Yeah, N+ has its advantages. I haven't seen the wild inaccuracies that you describe with RunStar, tho. Although I have a pretty clear view of the sky where I run, so my phone's GPS may just have an easier time than yours.

DonD · Post by **DonD** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:27 pm

The treadmill forces you to maintain it's pace or fall off (or slow it down, I guess). When running outside, you set your own pace. There's also the aspect of running somewhere and needing to get back home. You can't just turn off the treadmill and get off.

Plan your route ahead of time. I use http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/" target="_blank to get an estimate of the distance, and now have several loops I can run depending on how far I want to go. I'll modify them for variety, but still have a rough idea of the distance based on my preplanning.

I carry my iPhone and use the RunKeeper app to track my distance, pace, calories, etc. It sync's up nicely with an online site that maintains your historic data. There's also a free version you can try.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:43 pm

If you have the money a GPS watch is the way to go. Keeps track of everything you could want, except elevation is useless because it fluctuates so much. Just set it and go, plus it really helps do things like intervals. It makes running fun.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:02 pm

DonD wrote:Plan your route ahead of time. I use http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/" target="_blank to get an estimate of the distance, and now have several loops I can run depending on how far I want to go. I'll modify them for variety, but still have a rough idea of the distance based on my preplanning.

http://www.mapmyrun.com" target="_blank is the site I use for, well, mapping my run.

JonathanStrange · Post by **JonathanStrange** » Sun Feb 14, 2010 11:25 am

For years, I used to run approx. 2 miles six days a week as part of my routine. I'd go to the gym 4-5 times a week too.

I stopped running regularly about a year ago although I still go to the gym. I might go for a run once a week now when I'm in the mood.

I stopped because my primary reason for running was weight control and I've found it easier to simply avoid the breakroom or snacks. I haven't gained any weight and actually am about 5 lbs. lighter than when I ran. I never felt like I was suited for running (being 6'3" and 200lbs) anyway.

ONE thing though that running has done for me permanently (well, it seems permanent):

I've got callused and cracked heels like the a desert floor after the sun has baked it in its merciless heat. One would think I'd run without the best running shoes and socks to look at the calluses. At best, I sand with a Ped-Egg and moisturize the my feet and they're tolerable to look at (or maybe I just got used to 'em). Still my heels are so callused, I probably could step on nails and stickers without feeling or puncturing the skin.

Thanks running!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:43 am

I ran this morning and for the first time in *gulp* 9 years, I ran 6.25 miles in under 8 min/mile (actually, 6.27 miles in 50:00). The last time I managed that, I was in training for a marathon and in the best shape of my life. It was on a treadmill, but since it was 8F out this morning, I didn't have a lot of other choices. I can't wait until I can get back outside again (probably at least 8 weeks away though). I've been slowly building up to this point for the last year and it felt great to finally do it.

Just had to share.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:58 am

8F and you didn't run outside? I hope it was blizzarding so you at least have a reasonable excuse (two years ago, I was doing 13 mile training runs in colder temps preparing for a January half-marathon).

J/K, congrats on getting back to it, and your result seems incredible for a 9 year lay-off.

One of the first things I'm going to do when I get back to Manila next week is sign my girlfriend and I up for the United Run for Wellness. I will do the 10k, my girlfriend is begging to be allowed to do just the 3k. However, the day before is the Bataan Death March Tribute, a 102k ultra-marathon. I'm tempted to sign up just for the t-shirt and cramp out in the first kilometer.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:05 am

Jeff V wrote:However, the day before is the Bataan Death March Tribute, a 102k ultra-marathon. I'm tempted to sign up just for the t-shirt and cramp out in the first kilometer.

For the record, standard protocol with race T-shirts is that if you don't complete at least half the race, you don't wear the shirt.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:10 am

Zaxxon wrote:
Jeff V wrote:However, the day before is the Bataan Death March Tribute, a 102k ultra-marathon. I'm tempted to sign up just for the t-shirt and cramp out in the first kilometer.
For the record, standard protocol with race T-shirts is that if you don't complete at least half the race, you don't wear the shirt.

For no good reason whatsoever I would argue those rules don't apply in foreign lands. Kind of like the time I tried to convince a Canadian friend his marriage vows weren't valid in Mexico.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:20 am

Jeff V wrote:8F and you didn't run outside? I hope it was blizzarding so you at least have a reasonable excuse (two years ago, I was doing 13 mile training runs in colder temps preparing for a January half-marathon).

I am...how to put this...a wimp.

I also don't have the gear - I started running when I was living in Panama City Beach, FL 10 years ago. Since then, I've lived outside DC and South Carolina. Never had much need for warm weather gear. Now that I've moved to the frozen north, I just can't see the allure - icy, unplowed roads and near zero temps aren't my idea of fun.

J/K, congrats on getting back to it, and your result seems incredible for a 9 year lay-off.

Heh - wasn't a layoff as much as meeting someone, getting married, and having kids. I was actually running off and on that whole time, but also steadily gaining weight and slowing down. I went from 164lbs for the marathon in 2001 to 198lbs in January 2009. I'm down to about 185 now and hope to get below 175 by the end of the year. I'm also doing weight lifting, though, so I'm not sure what my ideal weight will be. My real goal is to get back to a 34" waist (at 35" now).

One of the first things I'm going to do when I get back to Manila next week is sign my girlfriend and I up for the United Run for Wellness. I will do the 10k, my girlfriend is begging to be allowed to do just the 3k. However, the day before is the Bataan Death March Tribute, a 102k ultra-marathon. I'm tempted to sign up just for the t-shirt and cramp out in the first kilometer.

Half an ultra is just a marathon, right? Should just be a long day if you're already at 13miles, right? And then you could wear the shirt!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:27 am

stessier wrote:I just can't see the allure - icy, unplowed roads and near zero temps aren't my idea of fun.

I'm with you, but once you get out there and your body warms up, it's a pretty awesome feeling to be running in < 10F weather while dressed like it's 40F, and feeling good about it.

Half an ultra is just a marathon, right? Should just be a long day if you're already at 13miles, right? And then you could wear the shirt!

Not always. 'Ultra' is a vague term, meaning anything from '26.2 miles plus a bit,' to '200-mile crazy-person race in a desert'.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:28 am

stessier wrote:Half an ultra is just a marathon, right? Should just be a long day if you're already at 13miles, right? And then you could wear the shirt!

This race is 102km, or roughly 64 miles, so it's longer than a mere double-marathon (52 miles).

The reason I haven't gone beyond 13.1 (well, I did go up to 15 miles in training) is that I start to become acutely aware of physiological problems around the 10 mile mark. Maybe I can train through it, but every time I run that far, I seem on the cusp of blowing something out -- a knee, a part of my foot, whatever. Depending on the terrain, I could possibly run/walk 32 miles in a day, though.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:28 am

I hate you Stessier.

I don't feel like I am improving. I haven't been training right of course, I usually go full out 3 days a week. My times have been getting better, my heart rate going down a bit, and my runs are easier. Except everyone else I talk to seems to be running faster, for longer.

So I have worked up to running 5 days a week and I am loosely following a Hal Higdon plan. I working on trying to not run flat out and keeping my HR below 90% right now. My average pace is much slower, but my average HR is also down. Gradually building miles up. Tons of time to train for the Boulder Boulder 10k.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:15 am

[quote="Lee"So I have worked up to running 5 days a week and I am loosely following a Hal Higdon plan. I working on trying to not run flat out and keeping my HR below 90% right now. My average pace is much slower, but my average HR is also down. Gradually building miles up. Tons of time to train for the Boulder Boulder 10k.[/quote]

If you're worried about increasing your ability to run further, it sounds like you're doing it right. More days, more miles, lower average exertion (and thus HR). Just give it time, and don't increase your mileage by more than 10%/week for any sustained period.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:40 pm

Don't know how you guys do runs in less than 10F. I suppose if I had a face mask it wouldn't be so bad.

Just did a run in 28F, 4mph winds, in the snow and I was hot by the end of it. I always make the mistake of dressing for how it would be to go for a walk, not how I will feel after running a mile or two. By the end of the run today, I was baking. Asics' Thermoplis stuff ain't cheap, but it's pretty awesome for warmth.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:48 pm

In sub-10F weather, layers help. Last time, I made the mistake of relying on thermal tights and the heat generated from my working legs to keep me warm by the waist down. There was one flaw in that theory...and boy did it burn once it started to thaw.

Typically, I'll wear a t-shirt, long-sleeve shirt, and microfleece sweatshirt. Several layers for the waist down helps avoid the above problem. You will sweat, biking clothes as the bottom layer do help keeping the sweat off your skin.

Today it was 33F when I ran. No gloves, rolled up my sleeves and unzipped my long sleeve jersey (had a t-shirt underneath). Regular biking tights on the legs. Still sweaty when I got home, but not terribly so.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:58 pm

This morning I managed to go 6.38 miles in 50minutes (7:50.2 min/mil). Woo-hoo! I think that may be the limit, though, without training at longer times/distances. I'm wiped out when I finally get to stop.

I can't wait until it warms up enough for me to start running outside. We technically have a 30minute time limit on the treadmills at the gym and I feel bad when I get on there for 50 minutes. Luckily, at that time of the day, it's very rare that they are all in use, so I haven't been asked to get off one yet, but I still feel bad about it.

By the way, does anyone have a suggestion for detergent for washing gym clothes? I was them as soon as I get home and they still reek. I've tried the vinegar thing, but then I just start smelling like vinegar. Tide has a new product that includes Febreeze in it - we're going to be trying that this week.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:14 pm

Nice Stressier, that's amazingly fast for someone hasn't been training.

I don't worry about my clothes stinking. I wear them running and no one ever gets near enough to smell me. Well except the occasional person passing me.

So I am no help.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:35 pm

Lee wrote:Nice Stressier, that's amazingly fast for someone hasn't been training.

Well, I'm not training for anything, but I have been running quite a bit. I moved last January and gained a bunch of weight. I started running/lifting weights to lose that and was going to the gym regularly (12-15x/month) from February until August when our second little girl arrived. I then took a 3 month lay off, went 12x in November, took December off, and have been going like crazy since January 13 (will have been at the gym 24x in February if I stick to my schedule). I mix in easier days (a slower steady pace) with the harder ones (intervals, or just all out to see how far I get) so I don't get hurt.

I was up to 45 minutes of running last July before the break so while I'm very happy with my distances, I'm wondering where i could have been without the layoff.

I don't worry about my clothes stinking. I wear them running and no one ever gets near enough to smell me. Well except the occasional person passing me. So I am no help.

When I run outside, I don't care. But the treadmills are rather close together and after the runs, I always lift weights, so I'm always around people. And I go at 5am - shouldn't all those people be home sleeping!?!?! (Interestingly, the gym is most crowded from 5am-6am. 6am-7am it actually is pretty easy to get on any of the equipment. That surprised me.)

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:48 pm

Ok, pressure is on for me. Signed up for a 5k in less than 2 weeks that is a qualifier for the Boulder Boulder 10k. Not that it really matters, a good time for me on a 5k would be 28 minutes. Hardly enough to bring me up from the rear at the BB10K.

Also signed up for a 10k in the beginning of May, and the Chicago zoo run as I posted in another thread. Signing up for the BB10k after the 5k in March. Now I am starting to feel pressure since I have paid money to run. Something to work for.

Getting Nervous. I don't know why, I am a beginner runner, nothing to be ashamed of for being slow.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:57 am

Earlier this morning (it's afternoon here now) I ran a 10K at the United Wellness Run here in the Philippines. I only had gotten in one run since I've been here (last Monday), so I wasn't in optimal running shape. I'm still waiting for the results to be posted, but I think I came in under 57:00, beating the 58:00 I predicted when I registered. Tiger Woods also told me I had my fastest mile, so at some point I must have been running fast (Nike + says it's 7:10), but my average pace was closer to 9:00. I want to get that a little lower before the Shamrock Shuffle in a few weeks.

The race itself was well done; a concurrent half-marathon, 10K, 5K, and 3K; spaced so runners weren't stepping over each other. The 10K wave began at 5:35 am, and it was already quite warm by the time it ended. I was passed by a group of Kenyans and one Filipino with about 300 meters to go...they were the prize winners (they also ran 21k to my 10k

). For what amounts to a $12 registration fee, the amount of swag was really something. I'm still waiting on my shirt (they ran out and are supposed to text me when they get more), a nice, zippered kit that included several full bottles (not just sample sizes) of sunblock and skin care lotion, and fist full of vitamins and other drugs. Afterward, we were given a "finisher's pack" that included a backpack, another t-shirt, a bottle of energy drink, a bottle of water, and a local runner's magazine. At the Wellness Fair, I also got pack from the sponsor which included more full-size sample products (my girlfriend said they are all for her, so don't ask what all they were) and some more sample drugs. Had I wanted to put the effort in to play their little "visit the exhibits and get a card stamped" game, I could have received yet another goodie bag. The lines by then drove me to a coffee shop instead where we had breakfast before coming home for a nap.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:56 pm

And I thought I was going a long way just to run by going to Chicago.

Serious runners knee here. Doesn't really hurt bad running, but going down stairs is a bitch after the fact. Paid $70 for 2 months of GNC's "joint" vitamins. Read good things about them, so what the hell?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:05 pm

Lee wrote:Paid $70 for 2 months of GNC's "joint" vitamins.

For $64.99, you could've hired the services of a tele-shaman.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:28 pm

Lee wrote:And I thought I was going a long way just to run by going to Chicago.

Serious runners knee here. Doesn't really hurt bad running, but going down stairs is a bitch after the fact. Paid $70 for 2 months of GNC's "joint" vitamins. Read good things about them, so what the hell?

It was worth the trip in terms of race results. I finished 219 out of 1850, easily my highest percentile finish of any race I've been in since high school.

It's also nice to know I can probably outrun any enraged Filipino should the necessity arise.

Lee, is that glucsomine chondroitin (sp?) you are taking for your joints?

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:15 am

There is 6 pills per pack. One of them has glucosamine and chondrotin, which is what a lot of runners swear by according some articles I read. Also has fish oil supplements because it's supposed to help with inflammation. Too soon to say if it's working. Doing leg strengthening exercises and stretches too.

Doing a 5k this Saturday. This will be the biggest organized fitness thing I have done with about 1000 people participating. Hoping to do it in 28 minutes, not sure if that is asking too much or not at this point.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:05 pm

After having two people in the last ask me if I am training for a race, I've decided I should probably sign up for something.

There is a half marathon in May that's only about 20 minutes away. I think that should be do-able. I'm at about 7miles/day right now, so I think my body can handle adding an extra mile/week to a long run on the weekend (every time I've tried to train for a marathon, I break down once I pass 13 miles, so I'm hoping nothing happens this time) . With a little luck, the warm weather will keep sliding this way an I'll be able to get outdoors in 2-3 weeks.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:55 pm

stessier wrote:There is a half marathon in May that's only about 20 minutes away. ... I break down once I pass 13 miles, so I'm hoping nothing happens this time) .

I hope that extra .1 mile in a half-marathon doesn't break you!

Good luck with the race! Extending 1 mile per week when you know you have that capacity in you isn't that difficult (I'll be doing the same following the Shamrock Shuffle).

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:10 pm

Lee wrote:Doing a 5k this Saturday. This will be the biggest organized fitness thing I have done with about 1000 people participating. Hoping to do it in 28 minutes, not sure if that is asking too much or not at this point.

Looking through some of my recent runs, at least before I started putting heart rate above speed, and I should be able to do a 5k in less than 26 minutes. Still my goal is to do it in under 28 because I don't want to put too much pressure on myself. Planning to take 2 days off before the run so I will feel fresh and relaxed.

Good look Stressier, keep us informed oh how your training is coming along.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:27 pm

1 - Do not, under any circumstances, sit in a meeting all day long drinking can after can of Dr. Pepper and having a Wendy's double-stack, fries and frosty for lunch, and then leave work and immediately go for a run.

2 - Descending from life at 5,600 feet to 800 feet for a day or two leads to an amusing abundance of oxygen during a run, even when one's stomach is displeased. It's quite an odd feeling.

3 - I predict that Lee will break 26 minutes.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:41 pm

Went for take 2 of 1.1 of Couch to 5k, since I didn't technically finish the full jogging portion during my first attempt on Saturday. It still sucked, but didn't seem as difficult.

30 minutes, later, I get a brief, light visit from an old childhood friend. Hello, asthma. You have not been missed.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:12 am

Zaxxon wrote:1 - Do not, under any circumstances, sit in a meeting all day long drinking can after can of Dr. Pepper and having a Wendy's double-stack, fries and frosty for lunch, and then leave work and immediately go for a run.

Oh yeah. Since I have moved to running 5 days a week it has had a dramatic influence on my diet. Sure I can have a foot long sub at 11:00, 3-4 hours before a run, but I am going to feel that sub on the run. It makes me second guess what I am eating a bit more. My problem is still eating bad after the run.

2 - Descending from life at 5,600 feet to 800 feet for a day or two leads to an amusing abundance of oxygen during a run, even when one's stomach is displeased. It's quite an odd feeling.

I can't wait to run in Chicago to see how it feels to breath regular air.

3 - I predict that Lee will break 26 minutes.

Jeez, don't curse me! (But thank you for the encouragement.) I am really scared that even if I feel good, I will get stuck in a pack or not push myself. Or maybe I just won't feel very good? I don't want to go into this with too much pressure.

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:21 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Went for take 2 of 1.1 of Couch to 5k, since I didn't technically finish the full jogging portion during my first attempt on Saturday. It still sucked, but didn't seem as difficult.

30 minutes, later, I get a brief, light visit from an old childhood friend. Hello, asthma. You have not been missed.

Walk. Forget the C25k for awhile, just get out there and walk as much as you can during the week. Walking is the foundation for running. You are strengthening your legs and building endurance just going for a long walk. It will make running in the future easier.

Good luck with it. Keep at it and don't give up. It does get easier.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:49 am

Lee wrote:
3 - I predict that Lee will break 26 minutes.
Jeez, don't curse me! (But thank you for the encouragement.) I am really scared that even if I feel good, I will get stuck in a pack or not push myself. Or maybe I just won't feel very good? I don't want to go into this with too much pressure.

My experience (especially early in my running career) has been that if I'm stoked for a race, have been running regularly leading up to the race, got sleep the night before and ate properly the morning of, I *always* have more on race day than I can replicate in a training run. If you're basing this 26-minute goal on your training times being a bit slower than that (as opposed to dramatically slower than that), you're golden.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:00 am

Zaxxon wrote:
Lee wrote:
3 - I predict that Lee will break 26 minutes.
Jeez, don't curse me! (But thank you for the encouragement.) I am really scared that even if I feel good, I will get stuck in a pack or not push myself. Or maybe I just won't feel very good? I don't want to go into this with too much pressure.
My experience (especially early in my running career) has been that if I'm stoked for a race, have been running regularly leading up to the race, got sleep the night before and ate properly the morning of, I *always* have more on race day than I can replicate in a training run. If you're basing this 26-minute goal on your training times being a bit slower than that (as opposed to dramatically slower than that), you're golden.

Mostly this is the case with me, a notable exception being that first race I ran with you (the CDC a few years ago). I didn't expect the long stretch of slight grade that wrecked my hamstrings, resulting in 10 minutes slower than my training runs (and crippled me for three days).