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Stargate: Universe

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WarPig
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by WarPig »

Doomboy wrote:I don't think they can possibly let the ship leave the galaxy. So they must be about to gain control of it. Story wise, there is just no way they can pull off nothing but shipboard stuff for the next few years.

I guess they could pull a Galactica and suddenly start season 2 with "5 years later..." But that would suck a huge amount.

I don't see how else they can go though. So my prediction is they manage to get destiny turned around and find the castaways, or the show spends several years with nothing but "while exploring the ship the crew find..." episodes. Or the sucky time skip. I hope for number one.
What about the way they got on board to begin with? Maybe they find another planet with a stargate with enough power (altered by the aliens, maybe?) to dial the 9 digit Destiny address.
Spoiler:
It would go deeper into Chloe's seeming osmotic absorption of the alien language. We could see just how far that goes.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Doomboy »

WarPig wrote:
Doomboy wrote:I don't think they can possibly let the ship leave the galaxy. So they must be about to gain control of it. Story wise, there is just no way they can pull off nothing but shipboard stuff for the next few years.

I guess they could pull a Galactica and suddenly start season 2 with "5 years later..." But that would suck a huge amount.

I don't see how else they can go though. So my prediction is they manage to get destiny turned around and find the castaways, or the show spends several years with nothing but "while exploring the ship the crew find..." episodes. Or the sucky time skip. I hope for number one.
What about the way they got on board to begin with? Maybe they find another planet with a stargate with enough power (altered by the aliens, maybe?) to dial the 9 digit Destiny address.
Spoiler:
It would go deeper into Chloe's seeming osmotic absorption of the alien language. We could see just how far that goes.
That could be how the castaways get back, but it does nothing for the problem of them leaving the galaxy and not being in gate range of planets for years.

It is a little strange they decided that Destiny was at the very edge of whatever galaxy it is in so early in the series. Because travelling between galaxies is going to take a very long time. Even at hyper-warp speed or whatever they call it in the Stargate shows.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

Doomboy wrote:It is a little strange they decided that Destiny was at the very edge of whatever galaxy it is in so early in the series. Because travelling between galaxies is going to take a very long time. Even at hyper-warp speed or whatever they call it in the Stargate shows.
I'm not even sure how to research such a thing, so I'll ask here - didn't the ships in SG: Atlantis like the Prometheus make the trip between Earth/Milky Way and Atlantis/Pegasus at least a couple of times? It didn't seem to take them eons to do it.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kelric »

Which is why I say they are able to turn the ship around onto its previous course. That way they still have no real control but lots of places to explore. Am I on everybody's ignore list here? ;)

Edit - Google search: Stargate Prometheus Travel
Sith Lord wrote:
Doomboy wrote:It is a little strange they decided that Destiny was at the very edge of whatever galaxy it is in so early in the series. Because travelling between galaxies is going to take a very long time. Even at hyper-warp speed or whatever they call it in the Stargate shows.
I'm not even sure how to research such a thing, so I'll ask here - didn't the ships in SG: Atlantis like the Prometheus make the trip between Earth/Milky Way and Atlantis/Pegasus at least a couple of times? It didn't seem to take them eons to do it.
Prometheus
The Prometheus, otherwise known as the BC-303 (prior X-303), is Earth's first capital starship and the first ever human-made battleship in the series. .... The Prometheus is the sole BC-303 built. The BC-303 is designed to carry up to eight F-302s for long-range duty, which can be launched and received through a hangar bay even when the ship is in flight. Both the F-302 and BC-303 are capable of hyperspace travel, primarily because of advances in hyperspace technology due to the discovery of naqadriah on Jonas Quinn's homeworld. Prometheus uses Asgard technology in its hyperdrive engine and shields, as well as transport beams and their attendant sensors. ... The vessel is equipped with hyperspace engines, and could also operate in a planet's atmosphere and land on the surface. Research and development for the hyperdrive, powered by naqahdriah cost the United States in excess of 2 billion dollars. Prometheus' main purpose is to serve as a platform for the defence of Earth. The ship could achieve orbit in less than 30 seconds, and utilizing the sub-light engines, could travel at 110,000 miles per second (59% of the speed of light). The corridors of the vessel are constructed of trinium alloys. As part of an agreement regarding the use of the Russian Stargate following the loss of the American Stargate, Russia has received the plans for the X-303. Russia never produced any X-303.
Naqahdriah (also spelled "Naquahdriah" or "Naquadria") /nəˈkwɑdɹiə/ (US) or /nəˈkwɒdɹiə/ (UK) is a highly unstable variant isotope of naqahdah with considerably greater energy producing capability – and equally greater explosive properties. It can also be used to power hyperspace engines with far smaller quantities than with naqahdah, and the greater amount of energy produced allows for intergalactic travel with reasonable transit times.
Basically the Destiny is currently way too old to be able to deal with that level of technology.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

Kelric wrote:Which is why I say they are able to turn the ship around onto its previous course. That way they still have no real control but lots of places to explore. Am I on everybody's ignore list here? ;)
No, I'm just not understanding the words that are coming out of your keyboard.

Have they shown any capacity to alter the ship's course in any direction - side to side, up, down, anything? If not, then it's unlikely they'd be able to turn the ship around without some sort of major breakthrough (which, granted, is possible since Rush is obviously working on exactly that.)
Basically the Destiny is currently way too old to be able to deal with that level of technology.
I don't get it - what's age got to do with anything? They have a hyper-space capable ship, because they make at least one hyperspace jump every episode. Unless they've compared the relative speeds of Destiny vs. Prometheus at some point, I still don't understand why one vessel can make the trip between galaxies in a few weeks and the other would take years.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

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It weighs more.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kyosho »

No Hyperspace. Some sort of "Faster Than Light" travel that isn't in "Hyperspace" or "Subspace" or "Warp" or whatever. However, we don't know whether the Destiny has even more powerful, secondary engines that make its jumps from galaxy to galaxy shorter, possibly in hyperspace. The "FTL" travel is just so a gate can connect. If the ship is between galaxies, none of its gates are local enough. Except one powerful enough like the Icarus one, but perhaps it's cut off from the gate network entirely when between galaxies with its hyperdrive engaged. Assuming it has one.


Am I making any sense? I've been up over 24 hours, so, who knows.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Doomboy »

If I remember rightly, on Stargate Atlantis they took a bunch of stargates from uninhabited worlds and built a chain of them, each at the maximum range of making a jump. Or was that just for transferring personnel? Or am I thinking of something completely different?

I could swear they talked about how long the Destiny has been traveling in the first episode, and it was a long, long time. I just assumed that large parts of that is the in-between galaxies travel, since there is so much distance between galaxies comparatively.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by WarPig »

Ah the pseudo-physics of science fiction. The fact we're debating it gives the show some merit.

How do we know Destiny doesn't speed up between galaxies, knowing there aren't any stargates seeded?

On the other hand, let's say they can get it turned around. If that were the case, a likely scenario would be that Rush is able to reprogram the route in reverse, sending Destiny back the way it came. They could pick the crew back up and be heading back to Earth, presumably, though the trip would take longer than anyone will live. I'm interested to learn bit by bit the knowledge that Rush was able to glean from the chair.

EDIT: Sorry; given the opportunity, I will geek out obsessively, possibly to the detriment of the thread.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kraken »

WarPig wrote:
How do we know Destiny doesn't speed up between galaxies, knowing there aren't any stargates seeded?
If I were writing this show, they'd come upon a starship-sized intergalactic jump gate.

But because this episode began with the ship powering down its systems, I'm guessing that it's either going to be a long slog, or there's a secondary propulsion system. Since the either one present narrative difficulties, I buy Kelric's idea that Rush is going to reverse the ship's route. That's the easiest way to reunite the party.

And I agree that this show's ability to spur speculation bodes well for its future.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Daveman »

From the mini-spoiler preview of this coming episode...
Spoiler:
I gather the aliens attack Destiny before the big inter-galactic jump and somehow damage or deplete its resources enough that it can't make the jump and it just turns back into the current galaxy again, conveniently stopping by Eli and company on the way.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kelric »

And.... I was wrong. Spoilers ahead.

They could have stretched this episode into two episodes. They completely skipped Eli/Chloe/Scott realizing they can get back, for example. Sure, they explained that they saw the Keno Controller light up (and it makes sense from how they set it up previously) but a single scene showing it might have been nice. And when did Dr. Franklin (the guy who had sat in the chair and was in a coma) get out of the infirmary for them to then find him laying on the floor elsewhere on the ship? Maybe I just missed that. They also could have detailed Boobs McHotChick blacking out a little more without spoilering it.

As for Franklin, I'm going to guess that he Ascended. How else could he have disappeared?

In trying to discover who the cutie was who played the Stone-transfer doctor Amanda in this past episode, I saw that Rhona Mitra apparently was in three episodes. How did I completely miss that? Or did I see it and somehow just not remember? By the way, it took way too much Googling to discover Kathleen Munroe was Amanda. She's purty. :wub:

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Re: Stargate: Universe

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It still keeps me interested enough to watch it but it's not something I'd like to watch reruns of like I do with SG1 and Atlantis.
I have a feeling we could miss an entire season and come back and find it pretty much the same except for a small child and some super alien that saves their asses all the time.
Eli will be the same size too. Come to find out he secretly smuggled a ton of Snickers bars on board and saves them for himself.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Doomboy »

Yep, I was wrong also. I am now predicting that the trip between galaxies is going to take exactly the length of time between the end of this season, and the beginning of next season.

Why show writers feel they have to come up with some excuse for this time period is beyond me, but since I have noticed the trend of there being a reason for a long break lately (main character shot, somebody's partner in the hospital, Cylons found their temporary planet because of a nuke in orbit), I predict that that is what is going to happen on SG:U.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kelric »

Doomboy wrote:Yep, I was wrong also. I am now predicting that the trip between galaxies is going to take exactly the length of time between the end of this season, and the beginning of next season.

Why show writers feel they have to come up with some excuse for this time period is beyond me, but since I have noticed the trend of there being a reason for a long break lately (main character shot, somebody's partner in the hospital, Cylons found their temporary planet because of a nuke in orbit), I predict that that is what is going to happen on SG:U.
And that makes sense. But I'm alright with it - any drama between galaxies is most likely just going to be civilian/military crap. This way they get to do maybe one episode to end the season and one to begin with in the void and then they go back to planet hopping next season.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kraken »

Reuniting the party was certainly anticlimactic. "Oh hai.'

I was wrong too, and it's good that none of us called it. I like unpredictability in a show. I don't watch much TV but AFAIK this is the best sf show going ATM. (I finally gave up on "V", btw.)

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kelric »

Ironrod wrote:Reuniting the party was certainly anticlimactic. "Oh hai.'

I was wrong too, and it's good that none of us called it. I like unpredictability in a show. I don't watch much TV but AFAIK this is the best sf show going ATM. (I finally gave up on "V", btw.)
I've given up on V but I just let the DVR record it and watch whenever I get around to it. Still enjoying FlashForward.

By the way, why the fuck is it called a Keno? I know Keno has some sort of ball device involved, but how does that translate to Eli naming a flying video camera?

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

Kelric wrote:
Ironrod wrote:Reuniting the party was certainly anticlimactic. "Oh hai.'

I was wrong too, and it's good that none of us called it. I like unpredictability in a show. I don't watch much TV but AFAIK this is the best sf show going ATM. (I finally gave up on "V", btw.)
I've given up on V but I just let the DVR record it and watch whenever I get around to it. Still enjoying FlashForward.

By the way, why the fuck is it called a Keno? I know Keno has some sort of ball device involved, but how does that translate to Eli naming a flying video camera?
Kino - Eli Wallace discovered the Kinos and named them after the Russian Kino-Pravda newsreel series.

I'm wondering about the "between galaxies" thing, too. They've gone to some effort to set up the blue alien dudes as a serious threat over many many episodes, but it doesn't seem likely they could follow the ship to another galaxy. So, then what? They're just over and done with? Doesn't make sense.

Of course, maybe changing galaxies doesn't leave them behind - maybe they've already followed it across galaxies. Just doesn't feel right - that's a huge distance.

Incidentally, I'm also banking V episodes and enjoying Flashforward. I hope FF makes it to a second season, I think it's a great show.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by dbt1949 »

I'm amazed at all the gear these people managed to carry on board when they were in the middle of a "panic runaway" when the base was being attacked at the beginning.
I can understand resupplying food,water and "plant" medicine but everybody seems to have bunk with a mattress/sleeping bag.
And shouldn't they be running low on ammo by now? It always amazes me how they always are firing fully automatic in the movies and TV. I've also noticed there's a mixture of army and air force personnel in the military. Why would a base have some many air force guards when that should be the job of the army?
And did any of them in their panic bring aboard soap and toothpaste? Do they all share a few toothbrushes? And what would they do for a Klondike bar?
And we won't even go into what they're using for toilet paper and what kind of bathrooms facilities they have there.
And how long before Eli gets laid?
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

dbt1949 wrote:I've also noticed there's a mixture of army and air force personnel in the military. Why would a base have some many air force guards when that should be the job of the army?
Not sure they've ever used US Army troops in Stargate. The show's premise has always been centered predominantly around the USAF and the SGC was based out of the NORAD/Cheyenne Mountain Base. I think the idea (whether it's true or not I dunno) was that scientific research and extraterrestrial exploration would fall more under the auspices of the Air Force than any other branch.

They have, occasionally, used USMC troops in special situations where they needed a lot of firepower.
And did any of them in their panic bring aboard soap and toothpaste? Do they all share a few toothbrushes?
In the show's defense:
a. they showed quite a bit of materiel being tossed through the stargate in the very beginning.
b. how many shows ever worry about this stuff? Ammo, personal hygiene, and bodily excretions are usually only referenced when they have a purpose in the plot. The rest of the time, the show and the viewer both pretend they don't exist.
And we won't even go into what they're using for toilet paper and what kind of bathrooms facilities they have there.
The ancients used the three seashells.
And how long before Eli gets laid?
He's a nerd. Therefore, never. Didn't you ever see Shatner's original speech on Saturday Night Live?

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Doomboy »

Sith Lord wrote:
dbt1949 wrote:
And we won't even go into what they're using for toilet paper and what kind of bathrooms facilities they have there.
The ancients used the three seashells.
Dammit! I was going to say that!

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by WarPig »

dbt1949 wrote:I've also noticed there's a mixture of army and air force personnel in the military. Why would a base have some many air force guards when that should be the job of the army?
Stargate: Atlantis utilized Marines to augment their USAF personnel on more than one occasion, and I know SG:1 did too, especially towards the end of the Goa'uld problem with Anubis. Dunno if that was influence by the IOA that caused it or they just wanted to beef up security.
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Defiant »

Kelric wrote: As for Franklin, I'm going to guess that he Ascended. How else could he have disappeared?
I can think of a couple of (logical?) possibilities:

1) He (or his consciousness?) became integrated with the ship somehow.
2) He, err, "burned up", being unable to hold/use all of the information? A one-time-use "get out of jail free" card?

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Doomboy »

Wow. That certainly was a tense season finale. I do hate cliffhanger endings for tv shows though. I guess they found a way to have conflict without having the earthlings at each others throats all the time. Which is good. Because after a while that starts to seem contrived in a survival situation.

Assuming the situation isn't all resolved at the end of next season's premiere. Also assuming that the show isn't canceled before that by SyFy.

Anyway, I think this show is pretty much a hit with me. I don't think there have been many episodes I couldn't watch again. So maybe I will get the DVD sets like I did with the original Stargate SG-1.

I don't like some of the characters (Chloe, upright nice guy who can't keep his pecker in his pants), but I like most everyone else.
Spoiler:
I'm also happy that they managed to make Telford into a likable guy. I guess the brainwashing also makes you into a giant dickweed as well as a traitor. That is the only explanation I can think of for some of the things he did early on.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

Doomboy wrote:Wow. That certainly was a tense season finale.
Agreed. I just watched it yesterday and I liked it as much as the rest of the series.
assuming that the show isn't canceled before that by SyFy.
I'd swear I read that it was already renewed. Too lazy to back that up with a link, though.
Anyway, I think this show is pretty much a hit with me. I don't think there have been many episodes I couldn't watch again. So maybe I will get the DVD sets like I did with the original Stargate SG-1.
That's one of the big differences for me between this show and the prior Stargate series. I've watched every SG-1 episode from the first 9 seasons or so repeatedly - at least twice, usually 3-4 times (back when it was on Sci-fi every afternoon, with occasional marathons). I've seen many of the Atlantis episodes twice and if I were flipping channels (which I don't actually do anymore) and it was on, I'd probably stop and watch it. I have no desire to watch any of the Atlantis episodes again. It's just not that good. It's good enough to watch once, but I can't get excited about it.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by dbt1949 »

What really bugged me about this latest episode was it's at least a three parter! I thought as it was the second episode it would reach a conclusion. :x
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Daveman »

I kept expecting Eli and Chloe to wander onto the bridge, or at least a brightly lit part of the spaceship for a change, but otherwise enjoyed the past few episodes. Overall the show is a hit with me, I hope it keeps going and gets better next season.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kraken »

I'm enjoying it, too. It's not great sf, but it's good entertaining sf and I look forward to each week's episode.

The weakest story element early on was definitely the teleportation stones, but they seem to have reined those in or figured out how to integrate them better. At least they aren't using them for vacations anymore.

Not a fan of Chloe being the damsel in distress every week. I hope they either grow that character into someone interesting or write her out of the show.
Spoiler:
Did it look to anyone else like the pregnant chick got shot in the abdomen? By the time this show comes back in Oct. the actress will have whelped her spawn, so they're going to have to either give her a fake belly for continuity, or use this opportunity to end the baby subplot...which was forced in the first place.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

Ironrod wrote:
Spoiler:
Did it look to anyone else like the pregnant chick got shot in the abdomen? By the time this show comes back in Oct. the actress will have whelped her spawn, so they're going to have to either give her a fake belly for continuity, or use this opportunity to end the baby subplot...which was forced in the first place.
Spoiler:
Yup, that was how it looked to me and I was thinking the same thing. Of course, she ought to have a hard time surviving a gut wound without any sort of trained medical treatment. Maybe they'll stone in a doc or something.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by disarm »

i really enjoyed the finale, but the cliffhanger ending is a little lame. i don't have a problem with ending the season on a cliffhanger in general, but it's a bit pointless to leave every major character in some sort of peril unless you're really planning to recast the entire show next season. that said, they've really set up an interesting situation for next season and have shown that they can avoid the rut of planet-hopping on the same ship every week. i'll definitely be tuning in again next season 8-)
Ironrod wrote:
Spoiler:
Did it look to anyone else like the pregnant chick got shot in the abdomen? By the time this show comes back in Oct. the actress will have whelped her spawn, so they're going to have to either give her a fake belly for continuity, or use this opportunity to end the baby subplot...which was forced in the first place.
Spoiler:
she had definitely been shot in the abdomen...could be a good way to write her out of the show if she doesn't want to continue after becoming a mother in real life...
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kraken »

disarm wrote:i really enjoyed the finale, but the cliffhanger ending is a little lame. i don't have a problem with ending the season on a cliffhanger in general, but it's a bit pointless to leave every major character in some sort of peril unless you're really planning to recast the entire show next season. that said, they've really set up an interesting situation for next season and have shown that they can avoid the rut of planet-hopping on the same ship every week. i'll definitely be tuning in again next season 8-)
Ironrod wrote:
Spoiler:
Did it look to anyone else like the pregnant chick got shot in the abdomen? By the time this show comes back in Oct. the actress will have whelped her spawn, so they're going to have to either give her a fake belly for continuity, or use this opportunity to end the baby subplot...which was forced in the first place.
Spoiler:
she had definitely been shot in the abdomen...could be a good way to write her out of the show if she doesn't want to continue after becoming a mother in real life...
Spoiler:
They did make a point of introducing a second medic. No reason to do that unless your first medic is out of the game -- whether temporarily or permanently remains to be seen.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

Ironrod wrote:
Spoiler:
They did make a point of introducing a second medic. No reason to do that unless your first medic is out of the game -- whether temporarily or permanently remains to be seen.
Spoiler:
Hold on there - if we're talking about the same guy, wasn't the "extra medic" just Greer in disguise?

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kraken »

Odin wrote:
Ironrod wrote:
Spoiler:
They did make a point of introducing a second medic. No reason to do that unless your first medic is out of the game -- whether temporarily or permanently remains to be seen.
Spoiler:
Hold on there - if we're talking about the same guy, wasn't the "extra medic" just Greer in disguise?
Could be. I don't pay real close attention so if he was in disguise, I wouldn't recognize him.

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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

Ironrod wrote:Could be. I don't pay real close attention so if he was in disguise, I wouldn't recognize him.
Well, it wasn't much of a disguise. He took off his uniform and put on a red polo shirt. Greer is the "angry black man" soldier who does most of the hard work on the show.

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Kyosho
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kyosho »

Welp. Season 2 is off to a decent start. Some thoughts:
Spoiler:
Teabag from Prison Break is on the show now! He's an awesome actor, so that's cool. His character seems different. I'm curious about him.

Chloe's "uh, so, I can now magically walk without assistance with just a little limp" thing was a bit unrealistic and downright silly the way they played it off.

Not sure what I think about the stuff with TJ and her baby. I'm not sure if that stuff was just to make people feel better about it, or whether it will actually play into the future of the show at some point

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WarPig
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by WarPig »

Kyosho wrote:Welp. Season 2 is off to a decent start. Some thoughts:
Spoiler:
Teabag from Prison Break is on the show now! He's an awesome actor, so that's cool. His character seems different. I'm curious about him.

Chloe's "uh, so, I can now magically walk without assistance with just a little limp" thing was a bit unrealistic and downright silly the way they played it off.

Not sure what I think about the stuff with TJ and her baby. I'm not sure if that stuff was just to make people feel better about it, or whether it will actually play into the future of the show at some point
Spoiler:
Even I refer to that actor as "Teabag from Prison Break". Must have been his breakthrough role, because he's done a LOT since. Adding Lucien Alliance members to the "crew" will have a bunch of plot possibilities, of course, kudos on that. The Chloe thing; well, she did get messed up by aliens and learn some pretty amazing alien language stuff demonstrated in 2 nonconsecutive episodes, it's obvious they planted nanites in her system or gave her some alien DNA or something. Should be interesting to see how they do that too.
All in all, I too liked the premiere.
"Your test assignment will vary depending on the manner in which you have bent the world to your will." - Cave Johnson

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Kelric
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kelric »

Spoiler:
Yeah, the after episode spoiler showed some Chloe stuff going on for next episode that I thought was pretty clear. Guess they needed to make her interesting somehow. ;)

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Doomboy
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Doomboy »

Yeah, I am glad it is back on and just as good as last year so far. Except for the weird thing with TJ.

I wonder if Telford is going to stay on the show or if they are going to kill him off? I kinda hope he stays. Now that he is back to himself. I guess the main problem will be "which colonel is in charge?"

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Kyosho
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Kyosho »

Kelric wrote:
Spoiler:
Yeah, the after episode spoiler showed some Chloe stuff going on for next episode that I thought was pretty clear. Guess they needed to make her interesting somehow. ;)
Ohh, okay. I don't see those "Next time" things, with my..er.. usual method of viewing.

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Odin
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Re: Stargate: Universe

Post by Odin »

It's funny that this week's episode aired just as I'm in the middle of watching The Hurt Locker - the slow-mo explosion scenes were numerous and entertaining. I also really, really liked the dino-stampede, up to and including Rush's final confrontation with Knepper's character. It's refreshing to have a "protagonist" character who doesn't always knuckle under and "do the right thing in the end."

Lots of carnage, righteous anger, and Eli demanding, "Give me a gun" adds up to an awesome episode in my book. Probably one of my favorites. Plus, I don't like Robert Knepper (sorry, Bob - you were too good at Bagwell and now I can't see you as anyone else), so that aspect worked for me as well.

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