December 7th, 1941

[Isgrimnur]

Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.

The United States was at peace with that nation and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with the government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific.

Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleagues delivered to the Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. While this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or armed attack.

It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time, the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.

The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. Very many American lives have been lost. In addition, American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.

Yesterday, the Japanese government also launched an attack against Malaya.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked Guam.

Last night, Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands.

Last night, the Japanese attacked Wake Island.

This morning, the Japanese attacked Midway Island.

Japan has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area. The facts of yesterday speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.

As commander in chief of the Army and Navy, I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense.

Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us.

No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.

I believe I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost, but will make very certain that this form of treachery shall never endanger us again.

Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.

With confidence in our armed forces - with the unbounding determination of our people - we will gain the inevitable triumph - so help us God.

I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, Dec. 7, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese empire.

[Exodor]

I had to glance at the calendar to figure out why you posted this today.


Then again I once asked a friend what "Cinco de Mayo" means.

[tgb]

[Isgrimnur]

Chicago Sun Times

In 1968, history buff Clifford Barrett wrote a fan letter to a famous neighbor in New York City.

World War I flying ace Eddie Rickenbacker responded, thanking Barrett and sharing his memory of Dec. 7, 1941, the day Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

Thus began Barrett's 23-year project to ask famous Americans - politicians, military men, sports heroes, movie stars - to recall how they heard the news of Pearl Harbor.
...
Famous signatures leapt from the plastic-protected pages of his notebook as he read names in a thin, soft voice: former President George H.W. Bush, golf legend Arnold Palmer, author Norman Mailer, the late CBS newsman Walter Cronkite, William F. Buckley Jr. and actors Jimmy Stewart, Jimmy Cagney and Gene Kelly.
...
Barrett has his own memories of Dec. 7, 1941. He, too, was listening to the Giants-Dodgers football game on the radio at home in Queens. He was 15.

Before the war ended he would be drafted and serve as an infantryman in the 42nd "Rainbow" Division. He would fight in France and Germany and was among the troops who liberated Dachau, the German concentration camp near Munich. It was six hours he will never forget.

"The people would come up and shake your hand and fall over dead," he said.

[Remus West]

I will be calling my great "uncle" (quotes because he is not actually blood related) to listen to some stories if he is in the mood (which is very rarely but more frequently since he visited Pearl for the first time since the War during the 60 year memorial).

[Steron]

My wife and I honeymooned on O'ahu in 2005. We had the honor of visiting Pearl Harbor during the trip. Standing on the Arizona memorial was a truly moving experience. When we were there everybody on the memorial spoke in hushed tones, if at all. I hope I get to see it again some day.

[nasai]

The stereotypes are so brazen, aren't they?

Back in 1999, my Grandfather, whom I loved deeply, passed away. He had served in the Pacific during the war, and fought against the Japanese. Prior to his death, I had married a woman from Japan. He never met her, as he was in a vegetative state at the time.

After he passed, I took my wife to his house to visit with the family. This was their first time meeting her. While we all sat around for the impending funeral, we were passing stories around, and the room got very quiet when I spoke up. I asked my Grandmother if she thinks Grandpa would have been ok with me marrying a Japanese woman. She replied "I think he would have warmed to her in time. She's a great girl." Then she says....

Spoiler:

Now.... if you'd married a nigger......"

[Mr. Fed]

Thank God we've matured past demonizing our enemies and employing racial tropes against them.

[Brian]

Being a former Navy man myself, I would very much like to visit the Arizona memorial and pay my respects.

My mother had an uncle (if I remember correctly) that was one of the very few Arizona survivors and another uncle who was on a different ship that was also in Pearl Harbor on that day.

One of these days I'm going to have to pick up Tales From a Tin Can: The USS Dale from Pearl Harbor to Tokyo Bay since the ship I served on in the Navy was the USS Dale which was the fifth ship to bear that name. The USS Dale at Pearl Harbor was the fourth.

[Flatlander]

The Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor is one of the most tragic and fascinating events in US history. How the Japanese could have on the one hand meticulously planned and executed such a devastating strike, while at the same time totally misreading it's effect on the American psyche is just astounding.



I've been doing quite a bit of reading on the Pearl Harbor attack recently, and I recommend HP Willmott's book


It's quite detailed in the background and planning leading up to the actual attack and goes into the orders of battle for both the Japanese and American forces on that day. He gives a comprehensive breakdown of the damage and loss of life suffered on that day.

The Author makes a good argument against the Imperial Japanese Navy launching a third wave of aircraft against Oahu. He gives a timetable and rundown of available aircraft, arguing that launching a third attack would have forced the Japanese to recover their aircraft at night, which Nagumo was loathe to do.

[Scuzz]

I would recomend to anyone who visits Oahu to also see the Cemetary for WW2 in the Punchbowl above Honolulu. It is like Arlington with a great view of Honolulu. I think it is called the Cemetary of the Pacific or something like that but it is well worth the time.

[tgb]

We also visited the Arizona Memorial on our honeymoon, and it was a very moving experience.

[dbt1949]

My parents anniversary. They can pick em, can't they?

[Isgrimnur]

My parents anniversary. They can pick em, can't they?

Interesting. New thread coming up.

[Steron]

I would recomend to anyone who visits Oahu to also see the Cemetary for WW2 in the Punchbowl above Honolulu. It is like Arlington with a great view of Honolulu. I think it is called the Cemetary of the Pacific or something like that but it is well worth the time.

Yes. The Punch Bowl was also very impressive. I highly recommend it as well.

[Remus West]

I would recomend to anyone who visits Oahu to also see the Cemetary for WW2 in the Punchbowl above Honolulu. It is like Arlington with a great view of Honolulu. I think it is called the Cemetary of the Pacific or something like that but it is well worth the time.

Yes. The Punch Bowl was also very impressive. I highly recommend it as well.

On the drive along H2 to the North Shore you can see a cross mounted in the low point between two peaks where the planes flew in on their attack run. I've always found that more moving than Punchbowl.

[Steron]

I would recomend to anyone who visits Oahu to also see the Cemetary for WW2 in the Punchbowl above Honolulu. It is like Arlington with a great view of Honolulu. I think it is called the Cemetary of the Pacific or something like that but it is well worth the time.

Yes. The Punch Bowl was also very impressive. I highly recommend it as well.

On the drive along H2 to the North Shore you can see a cross mounted in the low point between two peaks where the planes flew in on their attack run. I've always found that more moving than Punchbowl.

I remember that as well. SO much history to see on O'ahu. You can drive around the island in about 4 hours but you'd need two or three days to take it all in.

When my wife wanted to go to Hawaii for our honeymoon the ONE thing I insisted on seeing was the Arizona Memorial. I feel blessed that I was able to see it and fulfill a life-long dream.

[Derail]
North Shore = Giovanni's Shrimp Truck! Damnit, now I am all hungry.
[/Derail]

[Remus West]

[Derail]
North Shore = Giovanni's Shrimp Truck! Damnit, now I am all hungry.
[/Derail]

North Shore = Pie

[Jeff V]

[Derail]
North Shore = Giovanni's Shrimp Truck! Damnit, now I am all hungry.
[/Derail]

North Shore = Pie

+1

The Arizona memorial was a very moving experience. I spent most of a day at Peal Harbor (and the Punch Bowl cemetery).

Today is my youngest brother's birthday. My family doesn't celebrate such things, so this post will be the only acknowledgment from me (and he'll never see it).

nasai, old people sure can be hard to love sometimes. Last week, one of my nephews was suspended from school for making a racially-insensitive comment and acted as if they were overreacting. Had anyone working for me said what he did, I would have fired them on the spot (in fact, I did just that once). I told him just because his grandfather spouts shit all the time doesn't mean it's okay for him to do that, in private much less in public. He right away told my dad what I said, and my dad promptly acted hurt, claiming he wasn't a racist, bigoted asshole most of the time. I agreed that he would never behave that way in public, but I told him, oh yes, you most certainly are racist. My mother even tried to back him up. It doesn't work though when every time I tell them about a date I had or a woman I met, his first question is "what color is she?"

[Steron]

Just for fun, here's a couple pics I took in 05 on the Arizona Memorial.


The Black Tears


Flag pole mounted to the original broken flag mast of the Arizona.

[nasai]

Jeff, it does seem to be waning though, wouldn't you agree? I mean that a lot of this talk, be it "colored" or other terms tend to be falling off, and moving out of the lexicon of acceptability. Honestly, I believe that a lot of this language will die off with my grandfathers generation. My parents never have spoken like that, and my kids have only known a multilingual/multiracial home, and friends.

Still, it catches me off guard when we go to Idaho, or for that matter when I go to Japan to visit the inlaws. Sure, I'm welcome in most places, but I'll be damned if I don't get a lot of hairy eyeballs when I walk on a bus, or into certain restaurants.

[Jeff V]

Jeff, it does seem to be waning though, wouldn't you agree? I mean that a lot of this talk, be it "colored" or other terms tend to be falling off, and moving out of the lexicon of acceptability. Honestly, I believe that a lot of this language will die off with my grandfathers generation. My parents never have spoken like that, and my kids have only known a multilingual/multiracial home, and friends.

Still, it catches me off guard when we go to Idaho, or for that matter when I go to Japan to visit the inlaws. Sure, I'm welcome in most places, but I'll be damned if I don't get a lot of hairy eyeballs when I walk on a bus, or into certain restaurants.

I would like to think that it's dying off, and I think it is over all, but my anecdotal evidence is to the contrary. Out of the 5 kids my parents had, myself (the oldest), the next oldest (a brother) amazingly aren't inclined towards prejudice. I think maybe my youngest brother too. My sister and middle brother, though, are no better than my dad. My sister's kids inherited influence from her and my dad, and the older one is just too dumb to keep it under his hat in public. Where I live never was the hotbed of tolerance -- in a city of 50,000, I still remember when the first black family moved in..and then out because of incessant harassment (including firebombing) and a comment by the mayor that "they can certainly move here, I just won't guarantee their safety." The city is much more diverse now, but a lot of the asshats still remain, and I'm afraid they tend to be self-replicating.

I don't think around here anyone would bat an eye to an Asian/Caucasian couple (except maybe other Asians, like you, I've noticed a fair amount of intolerance in some of their cultures). I maybe trying it out first hand soon though...I expect eyeballs will be raised, but probably not for that reason.

[Kraken]

My Uncle Bud survived the attack on Pearl. I don't remember much else about him...I think I was 10 when I met him...but he married a Hawaiian and lived in CA. That made him exotic. Aunt Fanny ate raw fish for breakfast. That made her subhuman.

[Arcanis]

Arise thread of the deep and remind us of a "Date that will live in infamy".

[Holman]

I scanned this thread and didn't catch a mention of this, so here it is. Apparently an old Brownie camera was discovered with undeveloped film from 12/7/41. Some of the pictures are pretty amazing.

See them here.

[msduncan]

Jeff, it does seem to be waning though, wouldn't you agree? I mean that a lot of this talk, be it "colored" or other terms tend to be falling off, and moving out of the lexicon of acceptability. Honestly, I believe that a lot of this language will die off with my grandfathers generation. My parents never have spoken like that, and my kids have only known a multilingual/multiracial home, and friends.

Still, it catches me off guard when we go to Idaho, or for that matter when I go to Japan to visit the inlaws. Sure, I'm welcome in most places, but I'll be damned if I don't get a lot of hairy eyeballs when I walk on a bus, or into certain restaurants.

It's funny... I think states that didn't have to directly deal with segregation and racism are farther behind other states that were in the middle of the firestorm in the 1960's. Even moving from Alabama to Georgia 10 years ago I could tell a slight difference. Georgia wasn't nearly as in the firestorm as Alabama.... and now Alabama seems a lot more tolerant and friendly among races than even their next door neighbor to the east. Moving back to Bama was a relief... I have many more friends here of a variety of cultures than I did in SE Georgia.

I'd imagine the difference is even stronger if you move north to a place where they never had to face their prejudices head-on.

[Odin]

I scanned this thread and didn't catch a mention of this, so here it is. Apparently an old Brownie camera was discovered with undeveloped film from 12/7/41. Some of the pictures are pretty amazing.

See them here.

Does it seem incredible to anybody else that one guy could have gotten pics from seemingly many different parts of Pearl Harbor during the battle and its immediate aftermath? Dunno - just struck me as odd. Great pics, though.

[Holman]

I scanned this thread and didn't catch a mention of this, so here it is. Apparently an old Brownie camera was discovered with undeveloped film from 12/7/41. Some of the pictures are pretty amazing.

See them here.

Does it seem incredible to anybody else that one guy could have gotten pics from seemingly many different parts of Pearl Harbor during the battle and its immediate aftermath? Dunno - just struck me as odd. Great pics, though.

Yeah--I have no idea whether these are actually all from one source, although the article presents them as a new find.

In any case, they are some images I've never seen, and they emphasize the view from the ground, unlike many.

[Scuzz]

Some are during the attack and others appear to be after....


However....the picture of the damaged ships in the drydock.....I think I have seen that one in a book before..........

[WYBaugh]

Explanation here - http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/pearlharbor.asp" target="_blank

I don't think a brownie could take pictures as good as those posted anyway...

[LawBeefaroni]

Explanation here - http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/pearlharbor.asp" target="_blank

I don't think a brownie could take pictures as good as those posted anyway...

For a "sailor" to have snapped pictures from all the perspectives shown above, he would had to have been in the harbor aboard his ship, on the ground, and aloft in an airplane - all while the attack was in progress.

So? The sailor could have done this easily. I saw the Michael Bay movie.

Rudy Huval remembers the last time he saw his brother, Ivan.

It was a cold and dreary morning in Covington in 1939 when he was 8 years old and his brother was off to join the Navy. While waiting to catch the school bus, the family said their goodbyes and talked of getting together the next time he came home.

"We knew he'd be back and we could all get together and have a good old time when he came home on leave," Rudy said. "He'd planned on coming home for Christmas in 1941."

...

"He was a good brother to all of us and I just hope people never forget the sacrifice he and others made to keep this country free."

[Grifman]

Thank God we've matured past demonizing our enemies and employing racial tropes against them.

To be fair, though certain sectors of the American people may act/feel this way, the US govt has been very careful about not doing this for the most part. We do not characterize this as a war against Islam, we've gone to great lengths not engage in profiling (when many say we should), etc. It would be mistaken to think some progress has not been made.

[dbt1949]

My parents were married 63 years ago today.

[Yog-Sothoth]

A long time ago I read this paper which talked about American and Japanese racial stereotypes during the war.
He claimed that the stereotypes that were used by the respective sides had connotations which actually may have improved the reconciliation process.

The US tended to portray the Japanese as apes, but apes can be friendly and they can learn quickly.
The Japanese tended to portray the Americans as demons, but in Japanese symbolism demons can also be bringers of knowledge.

Dunno if he was full of crap or not, but it was an interesting paper.

[Odin]

Explanation here - http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/pearlharbor.asp" target="_blank

I don't think a brownie could take pictures as good as those posted anyway...

For a "sailor" to have snapped pictures from all the perspectives shown above, he would had to have been in the harbor aboard his ship, on the ground, and aloft in an airplane - all while the attack was in progress.

Woo hoo! I iz smrt!

[Grundbegriff]

My parents anniversary. They can pick em, can't they?

A Dave that will live in infamy!

[Brian]

My parents anniversary. They can pick em, can't they?

A Dave that will live in infamy!

Clap, clap, clap.

[dbt1949]

Oh no! Look who has the clap!

[Isgrimnur]

CS Monitor

But seven decades later, Pearl Harbor also remains a mystery. More specifically, it remains an event that has produced some of the great unanswered questions of military history.

Why did the Japanese attack a nation whose industrial might was an order of magnitude larger? Why didn’t the US see the signs that a strike was coming? Who in the US chain of command was most responsible for American unpreparedness?

Today, historians continue to debate many of Pearl Harbor’s puzzles, producing new evidence and theories. Here are just a few of those continued conundrums.
...
Why weren't US bases on alert?

The late Gordon Prange, a University of Maryland professor who was perhaps America’s foremost authority on the attack, believed that the core problem was that the US government did not in its heart believe that its own warnings about imminent Japanese aggression were true.
...
A congressional committee conducted extensive hearings into the Pearl Harbor disaster after the war ended. Among its conclusions were that Army forces were so focused on training they lost sight of possible attack – and that Army commanders were so worried about sabotage they locked up anti-aircraft ammunition rather than distribute it to gun sites. The Navy did not maintain aircraft patrols at sea due to lack of equipment – but neither did commanders order a picket line of surface ships instead.
...
Why didn't the Japanese press their advantage?
...
A cautious commander, Nagumo decided against more action. It would have required reloading aircraft on deck at sea at a time when the location of US carriers and submarines was unknown. Japanese forces had already won a spectacular victory. Why waste that gain?

“Nagumo’s decision to turn back came as a disappointment to many of his airmen, who wanted to exploit their opportunity,” wrote Prange.
...
What would have happened if the US had[n't] lost?
...
As to what might have happened if the Pacific Fleet had repulsed its attackers, it’s quite possible that the fleet’s commander, Adm. Husband E. Kimmel, would have launched his battleships and carriers out on a mission to catch and destroy the Japanese, writes Ohio State University military historian Mark Grimsley.

Kimmel was an offensive-minded commander who dreamed of replicating the victories of the great British admirals of the past. Within several weeks he could have gathered US naval power near Wake Island for a possibly decisive encounter.

Both sides would have had eight battleships available for a fight, writes Mr. Grimsley. The Japanese would have had a slight edge in aircraft carriers, but the US would have benefited from land-based planes from Wake Island bases.

The outcome would have been impossible to predict. A US victory could have greatly shortened the Pacific War. But “a decisive American defeat would have been far worse than the historical Pearl Harbor attack,” writes Grimsely. “Most of the vessels damaged or sunk [at Pearl] were subsequently repaired and returned to action, whereas any warships lost in the Central Pacific would have disappeared beneath thousands of feet of water,” writes Grimsley on Military History magazine’s website.

[Remus West]

This year one of my students finally knew what today marked!