When Good Ideas Go Bad

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:31 am

I recently got a new laptop, which has wireless internet. Very cool, since I've never had a laptop before...well, I did when I was a kid. But it was way too big to fit on the lap and it only had a word processor on it, so I used it for school only.

Anyway, I also took a test in my Thursday night class a few weeks ago, and when studying for it realized that I had lost half of my notes for that class, which kind of...you know...sucked.

So I decided that I would bring my laptop to campus with me last night to take notes on, and that way everything will be on my computer. And, since the school has wireless Internet, and my teacher posts the slides online, I can sit in class and download the slides and write my notes right next to them..."How clever" I thought.

Well, for some reason I couldn't access the Internet once I got to class, so no notes. "That's ok, I'll get them later when I go home." Then, just before class starts, my teacher asks me to put my laptop away. It's "too distracting to my class mates."

I was defeated. Having been in my professor's class for several weeks now, I knew that the only thing arguing would do would make me look like a childish idiot, so I just put my laptop away and asked for paper from someone sitting next to me.

I did laugh though when everyone around me made a comment about how they were smart enough to pay attention to the teacher and not be distracted by my shiny laptop. I don't know though, these people in my class are idiots.

Kael · Post by **Kael** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:39 am

I was taking a laptop to class with me in 1990. Who would think that 14 years later anyone would have a problem with it. I type a lot faster than I write so for me having a laptop to take notes on was a godsend.

Bring a stone tablet and chisel to class next time and complain that you were worried that the fancy pencil would have been to much for your fellow students.

I could see them kicking you out of class for playing games, watching movies or looking at porn during the lecture. And of course the laptop should be muted. But this doesn't make any sense to me.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:39 am

My guess is that a laptop, especially in a lecture would be distracting because of the clicking during a lecture, expicially if 10 or 20 or 50 students were hammering away at the keys.

That's just a guess, though.

I have no idea how I'd react as a prof.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:42 am

I remember I once told an HR rep when applying for a job that "I have an answering machine if nobody's home [when you call]." She replied "I don't talk to machines." All I could think was that I hope she was close to retirement, or she was in for a big shock, as there was no way she'd be able to do her job in the 90's if she was unwilling to make that adjustment.

I'd say the same thing applies to your teacher. Some semester soon, everybody's going to show up on the first day of class with a laptop and no paper. Even a die-hard luddite's only going to be able to hold out for so long in the face of pervasive technology.

Also, I like your sig.

Sith

Arnold Yim · Post by **Arnold Yim** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:45 am

I hated people in class that used laptops. Hearing 30 people click click those keys while trying to listen to the professor got really annoying.

Besides, labtops at my school were more inconvenient than just using pen and paper. Students with labtops always had to come early to class in order to sit near an outlet, otherwise u hope the battery holds out. Some professors made the people with labtops sit in the back, or the front, etc. Too much hassle.

But I'm biased, I like desktops :-P

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:09 am

As Kael didn't go to my school, I made it through college during the pre-laptop era, fortunately. I could only imagine how distracting the key clacking would get while I was trying to take notes.

Although I don't think it'd much matter to someone who went through an engineering curriculum. Between having to scrawl sketches fairly frequently, using a variety of greek letters (which eventually I got comfortable with the alt-codes for), and the complicated equations (again, I eventually got pretty quick with equation editors when I was drafting my thesis), there's no way someone on a laptop could keep up with most professors, let alone favorably with those merely using ink-and-paper.

Were I a professor, I'd be inclined to ban the laptops out of consideration for other students, or if that were not an option, go out of my way to present material such that using a laptop would not be feasible. It's too bad, as taking notes directly on the electronically provided slides would be pretty sweet (assuming you weren't a student like me who needs to scrawl down *everything* presented if for no other reason than to stay awake). If there were silent keyboards on folk's laptops, then I wouldn't have a problem with them, and that includes (and I'm talking college here, not compulsory education) surfing the web, playing muted games, or any other activity that did not interfere with those sitting near those students. If students can understand the material while ignoring my lecture, I'm all for it.

I know there were more than a few profs at my alma mater who presented material in such a way that I did better not listening to their lectures but teaching myself the material from other sources. It was a PITA as I had to show up for lectures (at least every now and then) to not miss out on exam dates, pop quizzes, homework assignments, etc. And I always considered it rude/obnoxious to bail out of class in the middle of the profs' presentations, so I'd end up sticking around and not paying attention to the lecture for 50 minutes at a pop...

~Neal

Kael · Post by **Kael** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:26 am

Oh yeah I can see how the typing would be distracting. Once I had a lecture in a class by a road and the sounds of cars made it IMPOSSIBLE to take notes. And there were windows that girls used to walk by, and you know if I can't manage to keep from staring at a shiny plastic box what hope to have of ignoring people walking by!

I once had to walk into a crowded student union a few doors down from my class and search through the groups of satudents talking, playing foosball and card games to find the guy typing a paper on his laptop and ask him to please go home and work on his paper, I was trying to take notes.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:29 am

From a psychological perspective, we had a saying about note taking. "What the hand writes, the brain retains." Does that work for typing? Do you remember what you type or is typing a less deliberate action than writing?

I type much quicker than I write, but my typing is sloppy and not very deliberate. I am simply focused on letting my fingers perform the actions of patterning my internal monolouge as it would be translated to 102 keys. There are often times when I am not looking at the screen nor the keyboard when I type. I might even hold conversation as my finger attmept to move in concert with my fleeting thoughts.

Writing, though... Where typing is almost an unconscious recation, writing is deliberation. Every word is a choice. Every letter is an activity unto itself. I used to be very passionate writer and the magic that takes between myself, the pen, and the paper was amazing. My note taking "skills" were similar. I can't imagine what they would be while typing.

I have no idea if others experience things this way.

I am such an anachronist. I miss writing and notebooks and permanancy and such.

Discalced · Post by **Discalced** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:50 am

My employer sent me to a 24-hour certification course. I brought my laptop to take notes and played Rise of Nations the entire time.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:16 am

The policy wasn't in place until after I had graduated, but our local college now REQUIRES you to have a laptop and bring it to class.

Kael · Post by **Kael** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:30 am

LordMortis wrote:From a psychological perspective, we had a saying about note taking. "What the hand writes, the brain retains." Does that work for typing? Do you remember what you type or is typing a less deliberate action than writing?

I think it really depends on the person. My wife needs to write something to remember it but writing something doesn't help me at all. I can easily daydream while taking perfect notes and not even remember what the lecture was about even though I'll have pages of notes on it. In fact I remember better if I just sit and listen than if I take notes.

Of course the notes allow me to go back and study so I have to take them, but writing doesn't help me learn at all.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:38 am

A tablet PC is a nice solution.

Fishy · Post by **Fishy** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:44 am

Hell, I distract my classmates with my Ti-86 calculator in class. They watch me play Tetris the whole time. Either that or they stare when I solve my Rubik's Cube.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:16 pm

The typing issue is a good point, I didn't think of that.

He isn't resistant to change though. He's a self described nerd, and we go over some cool new technology every class. He even holds "office hours" over AIM every night.

It's not a big deal not being able to use my laptop for taking notes, I can easily take them with pen and paper.

I agree with those who learn better by listening rather than writing. Most of my history classes I don't take any notes and usually get an A in the class. This started in the 10th grade when I would take pages and pages of notes and not learn anything and then fail the test. So I said "screw it" and stopped taking notes. It pissed my teacher off to no end until I started passing every test.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:29 pm

We're given laptops by our school and pretty much required to use them, so everyone uses them to take notes in lecture. I don't even NOTICE the sound of the keys being pressed. The sound doesn't carry more than a couple feet.

Biyobi · Post by **Biyobi** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:10 pm

msteelers wrote:I agree with those who learn better by listening rather than writing. Most of my history classes I don't take any notes and usually get an A in the class. This started in the 10th grade when I would take pages and pages of notes and not learn anything and then fail the test. So I said "screw it" and stopped taking notes. It pissed my teacher off to no end until I started passing every test.

Werd. In high school I had a teacher pull me aside after class and say "Am I completely boring you?" His was the first class of the day (I'm not a morning person at all) and I'd sit in there with a bleary-eyed, dazed look on my face and not take any notes at all. He stopped giving me oddball looks after I was the only one in the class to ace his first exam. We were cool after that, though he seemed to take great delight in asking me questions when I was still trying to completely wake up. My "record" mode works fine when I'm sleepy. It's my "playback" mode that takes a fully functioning brain.