Enterprise 10/22

Asharak · Post by **Asharak** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:06 pm

Um, that was different. I'm not used to this feeling: I actually cared.

By the standards of Enterprise, I thought that was an amazing episode. Many more like it, and "the standards of Enterprise" might actually start to be synonymous with something higher than "drainage ditch", for a change.

With that leading into Brent Spiner next week, I'm actually slightly excited.

!!!SPOILERS BELOW!!!

Specifically what did I like? It's not any new concept, but better execution of the ideas:

1. Archer struggling credibly with his actions of the past year - they tried to throw it in last season, but it never felt like it was serious
2. The anti-xenophobia moralizing: now this the progressive Trek culture of old
3. T'Pol's mother - and is T'Pol gonna marry the jerk? A character moment for a cliffhanger; what a change from the purile narrative-driven writing of last year.

Bring on Data!

- Ash

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:09 am

More spoilers...

And don't leave out Phlox Puffer-face. I literally laughed out loud at that, and I don't think that's happened at all on an episode of Star Trek, um... ever. Totally caught me off guard.

I also thought this was a good episode for some character development and showed that the writers care about more than the "alien of the week."

Sith

Tim Frederick · Post by **Tim Frederick** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:54 pm

I hadn't seen Enterprise in a long while, but I saw an online interview with Bakule where he said it is going back to a episodal format, so I thought I'd watch to catch up. It was a pretty good start, so I'll stick around a catch some mroe this season. And I definitely have to see the end of the cliffhanger!

D.A.Lewis · Post by **D.A.Lewis** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:24 am

An okay episode but I agree with all that has been mentioned above.

However, I do have one nit pick T'Pol's financee tells her, after the wedding, she need only live on Vulcan for one year and then she can be free to resume her career in Star Fleet. When T'Pol asks why, he says he only wants to make her happy.

Happy?? an emotional state??? What gives???

Asharak · Post by **Asharak** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:36 pm

D.A.Lewis wrote:he says he only wants to make her happy.

Happy?? an emotional state??? What gives???

Damn, I totally missed that. Now, with T'Pol it's actually legit, since she's mentally warped after the horrible drug addiction storyline from last season, but I don't think she mentioned that the fiancee.

The sentiment still flies, but they should have chosen a less emotional word, like "fulfilled".

- Ash

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:14 pm

Tim Frederick wrote:I hadn't seen Enterprise in a long while, but I saw an online interview with Bakule where he said it is going back to a episodal format, so I thought I'd watch to catch up. It was a pretty good start, so I'll stick around a catch some mroe this season. And I definitely have to see the end of the cliffhanger!

So, basically, the Berman and Braga thought they could imitate the success of DS9, failed miserable and went back to episodal format?

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:59 pm

Dirt wrote: So, basically, the Berman and Braga thought they could imitate the success of DS9, failed miserable and went back to episodal format?

I don't see how you could ascribe the phrase "failed miserably" to a season that most people seem to feel was pretty good - a definite improvement over the first two.

Sith

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:29 pm

Sith Lord wrote:
Dirt wrote: So, basically, the Berman and Braga thought they could imitate the success of DS9, failed miserable and went back to episodal format?
I don't see how you could ascribe the phrase "failed miserably" to a season that most people seem to feel was pretty good - a definite improvement over the first two.

Sith

But not good enough to save the show and boost advertising, which is what Berman and Braga are paid to do. The only reason Enterprise is getting this season is so they can package the show and sell it to other stations in the future.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:04 pm

Asharak wrote:
D.A.Lewis wrote:he says he only wants to make her happy.

Happy?? an emotional state??? What gives???
Damn, I totally missed that. Now, with T'Pol it's actually legit, since she's mentally warped after the horrible drug addiction storyline from last season, but I don't think she mentioned that the fiancee.

The sentiment still flies, but they should have chosen a less emotional word, like "fulfilled".

- Ash

There were definitely some vulcan emotional slip-ups, that i'm sure most of the purists noticed.

I did think T'pols mother's comment that 'we don't even know if vulcans and humans can have children' was a nod at Spock.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 pm

Dirt wrote:But not good enough to save the show and boost advertising, which is what Berman and Braga are paid to do. The only reason Enterprise is getting this season is so they can package the show and sell it to other stations in the future.

Frankly, I don't know what the hell Berman and Braga are paid to do, but I'm pretty sure they're paid too much for it. As for "saving the show" or "boosting advertising," I'd say to see the Cancelled Shows thread for examples of plenty of other good shows that have died before their time. Maybe Berman and Braga "failed miserably," but you can't say that the season did. Or if you want, go ahead and start a thread that Firefly "failed miserably" and see what sort of reaction you get around here.

Did the shows stay on the air forever? No. Did a lot of people enjoy them while they were on? Yes. For me, that meets the key definition of success for a TV show. Maybe because I'm not an advertiser.

Sith

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:55 pm

Sith Lord wrote:Did the shows stay on the air forever? No. Did a lot of people enjoy them while they were on? Yes. For me, that meets the key definition of success for a TV show. Maybe because I'm not an advertiser.

Sith

Any and every show is a business venture. If it can't find and audience and make money, then it's a failure.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:34 pm

Dirt wrote:
Sith Lord wrote:Did the shows stay on the air forever? No. Did a lot of people enjoy them while they were on? Yes. For me, that meets the key definition of success for a TV show. Maybe because I'm not an advertiser.

Sith
Any and every show is a business venture. If it can't find and audience and make money, then it's a failure.

And I'd propose that it did both, or it wouldn't be into its 4th season. Maybe it didn't find as big an audience as the producers would have liked, or make as much money as they'd like, but if the show were a failure then it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did. Shows that are unprofitable and don't find an audience are yanked after a few episodes - not four years.

Dirt, you obviously didn't watch this show and couldn't care less about it. It baffles me that you're trying so desperately to disparage it. Did Berman and Braga hit your dog with their BMW or something?

Sith

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:41 pm

Sith Lord wrote: Dirt, you obviously didn't watch this show and couldn't care less about it. It baffles me that you're trying so desperately to disparage it. Did Berman and Braga hit your dog with their BMW or something?

Sith

No, they ran my favorite fictional world into the ground.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:35 pm

Dirt wrote:]I don't watch it.

It's so bad that this is going to be it's last season from what I understand.

No, they ran my favorite fictional world into the ground.

Which is it? If you DO watch it, then you'd be in a position to complain about how bad it is, because you'd have seen it and judged it for yourself. If you don't watch it (and with comments like "Is this show still on?" I presume that you don't) then maybe you should give it a chance before just crapping all over it and bemoaning the damage to your favorite fictional setting. Despite everyone reporting back that season 3 and the first episode of seaon 4 were pretty good, all you seem to care is that it's not a financial blockbuster. Is it your favorite fictional world because you own stock in Paramount or because you like Star Trek? I just don't get it.

Sith

mdsmith · Post by **mdsmith** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:01 pm

IMHO the Enterprise is better this year. I like the episodic format better than the season long story arc. Just a personal preference. It seems to me that ,except for The New Generation, all the ST shows have taken a while to find themselves. I really thought this incarnations premise had a lot of potential,ie, to go back to the beginning, to show how it all started, etc. I just hope it isn't to late and they can get decent enough ratings to stick around a while.

SPOILERS

Yes, the Vulcans are different than the Vulcans of Spocks time. One of the story arcs this season will address that. Their will apparently be some type of social revolution like the Protestent Reformation on Earth. The Vulcans will come out of it being much more like the Vulcan everyone is familiar with.

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:11 pm

Sith Lord wrote:
Dirt wrote:]I don't watch it.

It's so bad that this is going to be it's last season from what I understand.

No, they ran my favorite fictional world into the ground.
Which is it? If you DO watch it, then you'd be in a position to complain about how bad it is, because you'd have seen it and judged it for yourself. If you don't watch it (and with comments like "Is this show still on?" I presume that you don't) then maybe you should give it a chance before just crapping all over it and bemoaning the damage to your favorite fictional setting. Despite everyone reporting back that season 3 and the first episode of seaon 4 were pretty good, all you seem to care is that it's not a financial blockbuster. Is it your favorite fictional world because you own stock in Paramount or because you like Star Trek? I just don't get it.

Sith

I did watch a few episodes from the first and second season. Has it gotten better? That's a question of aesthetics. For now, I'll let the fact that this is it's final season (where all the others including the generally abhorred 'Voyager' received 7 season) speak for itself.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:29 pm

Dirt wrote: I did watch a few episodes from the first and second season. Has it gotten better? That's a question of aesthetics. For now, I'll let the fact that this is it's final season (where all the others including the generally abhorred 'Voyager' received 7 season) speak for itself.

I guess I still don't see how you can so fervently deride a show that you have barely watched - particulary the 1/3 of the series that most viewers seemed to like best - and instead base your opinion on a scant few episodes and the fact that it didn't enjoy the same-length run as its predecessors. Aesthetics? Unless you're a producer or station executive, what else are viewers to base their opinions on? Or shall we all just enjoy what the corporate world says we should?

Sith

is_dead · Post by **is_dead** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:38 pm

I haven't watched it in a long time, but I watched the season opener this year, where they go back to World War 2, part 1.

It was one of the worst 60 minutes of television I have ever watched. Ever. It was contrived and dumb. My roomate says it was a bad example, that the show actually has a few plotlines going that are decent, but I can't help but refuse to watch it anymore. And it makes me feel bad because I wanted it to work.

I watched half an episode of Next Generation today, from season 1, and it looked like it belonged in the 70's with its bad hair and goofy dialect. But I couldn't help but think the characters were endearing, that there were subtlties in the story and theme and morality and between what the characters did and didn't tell each other. Someday I'll start recording the reruns or even buy the dvds.

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:04 pm

is_dead wrote: I watched half an episode of Next Generation today, from season 1, and it looked like it belonged in the 70's with its bad hair and goofy dialect.

Iddint that funny? I think the movies have held up better.

ChaoZ · Post by **ChaoZ** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:10 pm

Dirt wrote:
is_dead wrote: I watched half an episode of Next Generation today, from season 1, and it looked like it belonged in the 70's with its bad hair and goofy dialect.
Iddint that funny? I think the movies have held up better.

Except Star Trek: The Motion Picture

Asharak · Post by **Asharak** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:24 pm

is_dead wrote:I haven't watched it in a long time, but I watched the season opener this year, where they go back to World War 2, part 1.

It was one of the worst 60 minutes of television I have ever watched. Ever.

Then be glad you didn't watch last year, because it was worse.

Seriously, I'd suggest you give this and (very hopefully) next week's episode a try. My take on the season thus far has been an admirable effort to resurrect the disaster of last year (to the people who considered Season Three Enterprise's best: c'mon, when a TV show invokes Goodwin's Law, something is seriously f*ed up), followed by (one episode) of a much higher calibre than anything produced last season.

I'm attributing it to the new writing staff salvaging what they could from the plot they were forced to carry over from last season, and then being able to start fresh with this week's episode. Perhaps I'm being too generous too quickly, since one episode is hardly a trend, but if they're able to continue at the level they were at this week, I have higher hopes for this season than I've had for any Star Trek show since DS9.

So yes, the Nazi angle was atrocious. But it's over. Done. Gone bye-bye. Will not be resurrected. And with a new staff, new story, and a new hope from this week's episode, I can't but recommend that you give it another shot.

- Ash

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:35 pm

Dirt wrote:
is_dead wrote: I watched half an episode of Next Generation today, from season 1, and it looked like it belonged in the 70's with its bad hair and goofy dialect.
Iddint that funny? I think the movies have held up better.

No question. The good movies are still pretty good, and even the bad ones aren't as bad as the worst series episodes. Probably due to the higher production values. The series were expensive, but each episode's a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of a movie. Too bad the last few movies have been so lousy. I still haven't seen the one with the Romulans, but the last one before it sorely tested my faith in the brand.

Sith

is_dead · Post by **is_dead** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:27 pm

Ah, I have to admit I might want to give it a bit of a chance, maybe I'll watch for more of your feedback(s). What was the general plot of the (better) episode this week or last week? I do have a slight problem with the temporal war concept, but it would be possible for me to look past it if the episodes really were better.

Asharak · Post by **Asharak** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:54 pm

I do have a slight problem with the temporal war concept, but it would be possible for me to look past it if the episodes really were better.

First, the temporal war concept is over and done with. Knocking off the Nazis (coupled with a slightly-more-cheesy-than-usual "wipe the temporal slate clean" gimmick) was their way out of that mess. So no more temporal war.

is_dead wrote:What was the general plot of the (better) episode this week or last week?

It was a homecoming/shoreleave episode for Enterprise, after winning said war, which meant it was rather fragmented. There was a well-handled and surprisingly funny storyline with the alien Doctor and a couple crew members dealing with xenophobia on earth; Tripp and our emotional Vulcan T'Pol (she lost her emotional control thanks to drug addiction she picked up last season - ditzy, but they're stuck with it), who are romantically involved, went to visit her mother on Vulcan, and wound up in the episode's cliffhanger as T'Pol seems forced to marry the fiancee she left on Vulcan years ago; and Archer spent the episode arguing with Vulcan ambassador about the Vulcans not helping defeat the Xindi, and doing a generally credible job of struggling with his personal demons regarding some of his nastier actions last season (along with shagging the not-too-shabby female Captain of the new NX-02 starship).

But that aside, it's next week (this week, now) that has real promise. Brent Spiner guest stars (a recurring role?) as Dr. Airk Soong, a scientist helping Enterprise do something in regards to the Eugenics Wars.

- Ash

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:04 pm

Good synopsis, Ash!

Asharak · Post by **Asharak** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:15 pm

TY. I was afraid I'd missed a whole storyline somewhere.

- Ash