Octopus Overlords

Meeting at 3PM. I'm already paying out the ass for horrible coverage. We get to switch companies again for even worse coverage and the cost is going up. Doesn't say in the email so it must be a lot. I'm seriously not able to afford my insurance at this point. It will probably be 600 bucks a month after the increase.

I really really need to look for another job that doesn't underpay 20% and doesn't pay much into the insurance.

$600 bucks a month medical?
Is that typical in the US?

Ouch. I'm paying a little over $400/month for crappy insurance with a $4,800 deductible and thought that was bad. $600 is brutal.

ChaoZ wrote:$600 bucks a month medical?
Is that typical in the US?

Depends on the job and employer. There is no typical. I pay very little out of pocket but my employers pay a lot. I don't make a lot of money but the medical is a pig perk. Others in my office aren't so lucky. They pay a little more than a little if they have a spouse that they cover. They pay shit ton for their kids. And the company still pays a ton for their families. Decent coverage under a group policy in the states can cost as much at $1000 a month per person or more. If you are covering a family of four or five, that's can be around $4000 a month or more. If a company is charging you $600 a month for $4000 worth of coverage then they're still eating $3400 a month, which is close to my entire salary. I think a family of four here would pay about $470 a month for the typical HMO with $15 copays on office visits and $40/$10 copays on drugs.

....Note, this is for a typical broad national HMO. A more localized HMO would be cheaper and a PPO would be more expensive and hive higher out of pocket expenses, the bonus being that you can self refer and do not need a primary care physician with a PPO and you must be referred by your PCP with an HMO.

You'd have to ask kraken or the like for what insurance costs without group rates, though even then he might be part of some sort of giant Massachusetts group rate.

ChaoZ wrote:$600 bucks a month medical?
Is that typical in the US?

My ex-boss had his wife and two kids on the company's plan at the time and was playing $675 or so. The company's plan was considered "complete shit", incidentally. HR used to give us spiels that "it's always worse for health care professionals/companies to get insurance because it is assumed they know how to game the system". What the fuck does that even mean? When someone spews out a corporate line like that I just assume it means they aren't even trying at any part of their life.

Typical? I doubt it's "typical". Possible? Very much so.

I wouldn't be able to afford coverage for my daughter, due to her heart conditions, they wanted almost my whole check as a premium. By extension I can't get coverage for myself, because if I do the state quits covering her.

My company pays for my medical in toto since I went with an HRA this year. Covering spouse and kids on the same plan would have been $515/month.

If I had gone for the top, which was $1000 deductible, it would have been $50 / $750 for self / spouse + kids.

Went up 66 bucks a month. That about seals it for me. I have to f'n get the hell out of this place. That brings it up to 580ish a month and our copay is 25 bucks for a doctor 50 for a specialist...

My plan is about $300 / month for me, my wife, and my family, with $20 co-pays for normal visits, $100 for ER. Which is fairly good all things considered, I think. Though since I work for the state people tend to assume that I get crazy benefits for free.

Yea....just got the letter yesterday.
Going up to $500+ a month.

I'm out........wish me luck........

I guess we're even for the crappy car insurance rates we get up here.

What would happen if a hundred million people just threw their arms up and cancelled their health insurance?

Wow, just ... wow.

I pay 104$/Month and I thought it was expensive (I pay 75% of it too)

Unbeleivable.

ChaoZ wrote:I guess we're even for the crappy car insurance rates we get up here.

Um I live in Jersey our car insurance and property taxes suck just as much as my health insurance. I'm not even sure I end up with money at the end of the month at this point.

Paingod wrote:What would happen if a hundred million people just threw their arms up and cancelled their health insurance?

Massive government bailout, too big to fail, etc.

Octavious wrote:

ChaoZ wrote:I guess we're even for the crappy car insurance rates we get up here.

Um I live in Jersey our car insurance and property taxes suck just as much as my health insurance. I'm not even sure I end up with money at the end of the month at this point.

I've been loving watching my property taxes go down every year until this year. This year they're more than doubling my water costs and they're raising property tax rates to make up for the revenue decrease that they can't run government and schools and such on any more because of decreasing property values. The only perk to being into my home for more than twice as much as it is worth is about to be eroded.

My property taxes have gone up 51% in the 6 years I've owned my home. I'm seriously close to pulling a Falling Down moment pretty soon.

I'm feeling worse about my recent rent escapade... ?

Paingod wrote:What would happen if a hundred million people just threw their arms up and cancelled their health insurance?

My guess, premiums would go down enough that 80 million of the healthier ones would pay back in and the rest would be denied coverage.

However I think in a lot of cases employers require some proof of minimum insurance, right? If you can't demonstrate other coverage they automatically enroll you in their cheapest offering.



I think I mentioned it in a thread earlier but one insurer here informed me that their minimum increase this year was around 12%. Some employers are seeing more. One 100+ insured employer was hit with a 40% increase because of just two high cost cases/individuals.

Isgrimnur wrote: I'm feeling worse about my recent rent escapade... ?

Heh. There were more than 1 person who were wondering what all the fuss was about over 12 bucks.

Octavious wrote:Went up 66 bucks a month. That about seals it for me. I have to f'n get the hell out of this place. That brings it up to 580ish a month and our copay is 25 bucks for a doctor 50 for a specialist...

My wife gets fairly good coverage through her work but her copay is $25.

That's $25 every time she walks through the door.

With her chemo she visits at least once a week so we're spending upwards of $100 a month just on co-pays.

I'm paying $349 *each* monthly for my Full time employees (Blue Cross Blue Shield Michigan) and $1047 monthly for my family plan also BCBS Michigan. The family plan has no # of kid restrictions on it though, so the more prolific we are the better deal we get.... hahaah

Currently it's a perk I provide to my FT employees, the trade-off is that their hourly wage isn't as high as it would be otherwise.

When our insurance renewed in Feb it only went up a combined $20.00, so I can't complain.

Pricey, yeah, but worth it since it doesn't come directly out of pocket -- well it's with before taxes business money rather than taxed paycheck $$.

Edit: $20 copay and $5 Generic drugs $20 brand name.

BCBS treated us right though with Olivia. We probably had less than $5000 out of pocket expenses with her open heart surgery, Liver surgery, 2 month long hospitalizations, weekly cardiologist visits, monthly liver specialist visits, special formula, etc etc. We never had to dispute a single bill. I'll appreciate that for the rest of my life.

Okay...I pay insurance for the four non-union people here at the company. A basic Blue Shield Health Insurance plan, $1,000 deductible, $35 co-pay with a decent drug plan. Two with families and two husbands/wives. Granted everyone is over 40.

I pay $5,349 a month. And we get a 5% increase in October. That's right, and don't tell me it's ridiculous and that I should shop around because I have. As a four member group (even added to other small groups for better bargaining power) that's the best we can do.

California is wonderful.

Exodor wrote:

Octavious wrote:Went up 66 bucks a month. That about seals it for me. I have to f'n get the hell out of this place. That brings it up to 580ish a month and our copay is 25 bucks for a doctor 50 for a specialist...

My wife gets fairly good coverage through her work but her copay is $25.

That's $25 every time she walks through the door.

With her chemo she visit at least once a week so we're spending upwards of $100 a month just on co-pays.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I can't *believe* you're complaining about having to pay 100 bucks a month for chemotherapy.

In a more general sense, I think employees are generally blissfully unaware of what the true cost of their health care coverage is, and how much it increases by, every year. Employees are one of the single largest line items for many companies, and when you realize that the cost to employ them alone goes up by a few percentage points a year, the fact that many companies are flat or just squeaking by right now puts a lot of pressure on their bottom line - not the bottom line that pays those fat owners bonuses, but the bottom line that is literally the difference between the company being a worthwhile ongoing concern for the ownership and not.

geezer wrote:I'm not trying to be an ass, but I can't *believe* you're complaining about having to pay 100 bucks a month for chemotherapy.

That's just for the visits. The battery of drugs she's on?

Those cost even more.

And that's ignoring the $2000 we spent in January.

Not to mention the ongoing premiums we pay.

And yet we have to pay $25 just to walk through the door. Going in to have a dressing changed? $25. Going in to turn in the machine she wears for two days? $25. Blood draw? $25.


So just fucking bite me if you think I'm out of line for complaining about the costs. "Employees" are making due with stagnant wages while costs for everything keep going up. Believe me, we're well aware of health costs because we pay more than our fair share. We're drawing down our savings and still in the red every month because of all these costs. We both work full-time (well, my wife did and will once she's better) and yet we're quite literally going bankrupt just trying to keep her from dying. Not all of us are driving fucking Lexuses - but I'm sure your employees appreciate your sacrifice.

I'm covered at no cost through my work.

When Neal was laid off, I checked into adding him and Kayla to my work insurance...it would have cost $740 a month for the two of them. So, Neal did his own thing and I decided to purchase separate insurance, just basic emergency-only stuff for Kayla since (knock on wood) she rarely gets ill.

I went back and forth getting rates for a while and finally after about 6 weeks decided on a plan and filled out the forms, only to learn that you can't insure a child alone, has to be family coverage. OK, well, she's not a child, she's 18. Nope, has to be 19 or older to qualify for single-person insurance. So I have no choice but to insure her through my company now, only of course since it's 6 weeks later, it's no longer an extenuating circumstance (or whatever the legal term is), so I have to wait until open enrollment. So, yeah, my kid's been uninsured for the last 5 months. I'm a great parent.

Oh, and I pay $175 a month just in prescriptions alone for only me. Co-pay is $30 per doctor, which means every visit requiring a urine sample (which is all of them due to my kidney disease) is at least $60.

geezer wrote:

Exodor wrote:

Octavious wrote:Went up 66 bucks a month. That about seals it for me. I have to f'n get the hell out of this place. That brings it up to 580ish a month and our copay is 25 bucks for a doctor 50 for a specialist...

My wife gets fairly good coverage through her work but her copay is $25.

That's $25 every time she walks through the door.

With her chemo she visit at least once a week so we're spending upwards of $100 a month just on co-pays.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but I can't *believe* you're complaining about having to pay 100 bucks a month for chemotherapy.

In a more general sense, I think employees are generally blissfully unaware of what the true cost of their health care coverage is, and how much it increases by, every year. Employees are one of the single largest line items for many companies, and when you realize that the cost to employ them alone goes up by a few percentage points a year, the fact that many companies are flat or just squeaking by right now puts a lot of pressure on their bottom line - not the bottom line that pays those fat owners bonuses, but the bottom line that is literally the difference between the company being a worthwhile ongoing concern for the ownership and not.

Given the circumstances I think you were a little tough on Exodor. However I know we would pay $35 for each of those visits and my wife does do $90 a month in drugs.

Our small little company pays almost $65,000 a year to insure four employees. That was closer to $10,000 just 15 years ago. That is $55k that we have to make up somewhere. As an owner it comes out of my pocket. Add the increase in gas prices and the general screwed economy and it's a wonder we are still in business.

I'm self-employed, so I get to buy my own insurance. I pay around $500/mo for nothing but a $2,250 deductible.

We pay around $500/mo to cover the two of us with a pretty decent plan (Harvard Pilgrim). That seems laughably cheap compared to what we paid for individual coverage while my wife was unemployed. We were facing $1200/mo then for minimal coverage.

Exodor wrote:

geezer wrote:I'm not trying to be an ass, but I can't *believe* you're complaining about having to pay 100 bucks a month for chemotherapy.

That's just for the visits. The battery of drugs she's on?

Those cost even more.

And that's ignoring the $2000 we spent in January.

Not to mention the ongoing premiums we pay.

And yet we have to pay $25 just to walk through the door. Going in to have a dressing changed? $25. Going in to turn in the machine she wears for two days? $25. Blood draw? $25.


So just fucking bite me if you think I'm out of line for complaining about the costs. "Employees" are making due with stagnant wages while costs for everything keep going up. Believe me, we're well aware of health costs because we pay more than our fair share. We're drawing down our savings and still in the red every month because of all these costs. We both work full-time (well, my wife did and will once she's better) and yet we're quite literally going bankrupt just trying to keep her from dying. Not all of us are driving fucking Lexuses - but I'm sure your employees appreciate your sacrifice.

I apologize if what I said was offensive - it wasn't meant to be. My wife is a cancer survivor, as I pray yours will be, and I understand the stress, hardship and sadness you are feeling, and I understand what it's like to have financial pressures on top of that. I truly do, regardless of what's in my driveway.

One of the core principles of every company I am part of is that the people that work with me get 100% of their insurance premiums covered by the company. My point is not, "if you think YOU have it bad, well, those companies have it even worse." My point is actually that I think your anger is misdirected - you and I should both be grateful that we have insurance, and that a $100/month cost to do the things that your wife needs done is only a very small part of the overall cost - a cost that you are somewhat insulated from but your employer may not be - and your employer may be someone just like you and me who is suddenly facing a x dollar/month reduction is income because there are no revenue increases to offset the regular insurance increases. Basically I'm saying it's probably not the case that your employer if fobbing off your wife's critical medical cost increases to you just so he can have a Lexus in his driveway.

Regardless, I'm truly sorry for the struggle you are facing, and if your financial situation is truly that dire, please drop me a PM. My wife still works with cancer survivors and their spouses and is fairly well-versed in options for people that are dealing with your exact financial situation. We'd be happy to help in any way we can.

similar story to Koz but the start up where i work has no insurance so I pay private insurance. MY nut is $600 a month for just me. My deductible is $1000. Plus in NJ private insurance plans are only required to pay 50% of drug costs, so no plan offers better. Lucky me I am diabetic and pay another $400 a months in meds. I pay $1000 a month without even going to a dr. Great stuff.

This thread is depressing the shit out of me.

Tell me about it. I'm feeling guilty as shit that my employer covers my entire health care at no cost to me. No copays. No deductable. No premiums.

I really wish we were serious as a country about fixing our health care system. The rank inequality in the ability to access basic medical care is maddening.

I work for a big-ass borg of a company (~60,000 employees) and the health insurance is next to worthless. I took the cheapest option aside from a HSA, and the online calculator estimated my out-of-pocket costs to be around $3,500 per year.

The prescription drug plan doesn't even kick in until I've met my medical deductible of $2,500 -- which will be difficult most years because diabetes-related costs DON'T COUNT! They want diabetics to just die, not a cent of diabetes-related expense is covered.

I've already started buying my meds in the Philippines. The cost is slightly better than a prescription plan that charges 2 months for a 3 month supply. The best part, though, is that I don't need a prescription for the meds I'm on, meaning I can forego at least one of the sets of labs my doc insists on before writing a prescription (which hasn't changed in years).

Last year, my wife was sick when I was visiting her, and I took her to a doctor. It costs $6 for an office visit. The labs were another $6, and we waited about 30 minutes for the results (not days). The doc prescribed a half-dozen meds, which totaled about $18.

I think an HSA combined with medical tourism is a viable option. This would probably change once kids are involved, them being the disease-vectors they are. Since I don't believe children should be allowed on airplanes, exiling them overseas every time they catch a plague poses some difficulty.

Judging from the outrage expressed at Obama's attempt of healthcare reform, I can only guess that most people are exceptionally pleased with their health insurance and don't want their insurers constrained by government controls. Count me among those few disenfranchised, but I guess the insurance companies (or my employer) would shed a tear if I just died.

gbasden wrote:Tell me about it. I'm feeling guilty as shit that my employer covers my entire health care at no cost to me. No copays. No deductable. No premiums.

I really wish we were serious as a country about fixing our health care system. The rank inequality in the ability to access basic medical care is maddening.

I agree with you 100%. It's specifically why we DO cover our folks' entire premium - no one should want for fundamental care because of a lack of money. I find the very idea repulsive. That said, I will admit to frustration when people don't take advantage of preventative care, or when they truck their kids to the doctor for every sniffle and sneeze on our dime. I guess that's the conundrum - I believe in doing what I can to contribute to a good quality of life, but in return I expect not to be taken advantage of. Some days I get frustrated.

geezer wrote:

gbasden wrote:Tell me about it. I'm feeling guilty as shit that my employer covers my entire health care at no cost to me. No copays. No deductable. No premiums.

I really wish we were serious as a country about fixing our health care system. The rank inequality in the ability to access basic medical care is maddening.

I agree with you 100%. It's specifically why we DO cover our folks' entire premium - no one should want for fundamental care because of a lack of money. I find the very idea repulsive.

Are you hiring?

Jeff V wrote:

geezer wrote:

gbasden wrote:Tell me about it. I'm feeling guilty as shit that my employer covers my entire health care at no cost to me. No copays. No deductable. No premiums.

I really wish we were serious as a country about fixing our health care system. The rank inequality in the ability to access basic medical care is maddening.

I agree with you 100%. It's specifically why we DO cover our folks' entire premium - no one should want for fundamental care because of a lack of money. I find the very idea repulsive.

Are you hiring?

No In fact, I have to go to CA next week to try and figure out a way not to institute layoffs

geezer wrote:

Jeff V wrote:

geezer wrote:

gbasden wrote:Tell me about it. I'm feeling guilty as shit that my employer covers my entire health care at no cost to me. No copays. No deductable. No premiums.

I really wish we were serious as a country about fixing our health care system. The rank inequality in the ability to access basic medical care is maddening.

I agree with you 100%. It's specifically why we DO cover our folks' entire premium - no one should want for fundamental care because of a lack of money. I find the very idea repulsive.

Are you hiring?

No In fact, I have to go to CA next week to try and figure out a way not to institute layoffs

Hmmm...I wonder how many of your employees would give up free health care in return for keeping their jobs?

MHS wrote:This thread is depressing the shit out of me.

I'm right there with you.

People laugh at Canada because of our free healthcare and bitch at Obama for wanting to "socialise" their country.
Then I hear stories like Exodor and it makes me go "What?" at all those people.

Sure we pay alot of taxes but overall I beleive we're much better off.

Hope your wife gets better

geezer wrote:That said, I will admit to frustration when people don't take advantage of preventative care, or when they truck their kids to the doctor for every sniffle and sneeze on our dime. I guess that's the conundrum - I believe in doing what I can to contribute to a good quality of life, but in return I expect not to be taken advantage of. Some days I get frustrated.

Preventive care incentives have, in many cases, been shown to greatly reduce overall costs. Such incentives include things like paying for smoking cessation, cash/gifts for weight loss and quitting smoking, rewards for increased prescription and diabetic patient compliance, covered (free) preventive visits, etc.

Overutilization is more difficult, and copay/co-insurance/deductibles are meant to combat that. But as this thread has shown, sometimes these dis-incentives hit the wrong people. Out-of-pocket limits are, in turn, meant to combat that. Doesn't always work out.

MHS wrote:This thread is depressing the shit out of me.

Things may have changed since pre-meltdown 2007, but:

Medical problems caused 62% of all personal bankruptcies filed in the U.S. in 2007, according to a study by Harvard researchers. And in a finding that surprised even the researchers, 78% of those filers had medical insurance at the start of their illness, including 60.3% who had private coverage, not Medicare or Medicaid.

Paper.