Military Tech / Science

[Holman]

Zumwalt up the river...can tell a bit about it's size.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5SepQZFf-U

I'm struck by how much that looks like a Civil War ironclad on steroids.

It definitely has some that "pillbox on a raft" quality.

[Kasey Chang]

Could there ever be a role for battleships again? Power projection is done by aircraft carriers. Both surface-to-surface naval warfare and land-target bombardment are now missile things rather than gun things (when they're not plane things).

Not until they perfect the railguns with extended range guided projectiles. Missiles, esp. cruise missiles, have range of well over 100 miles, perhaps 1000 miles or more depending on exact model and flight profile. Battleship only has range like 40 miles, IIRC.

[Montag]

Could there ever be a role for battleships again? Power projection is done by aircraft carriers. Both surface-to-surface naval warfare and land-target bombardment are now missile things rather than gun things (when they're not plane things).

Not until they perfect the railguns with extended range guided projectiles. Missiles, esp. cruise missiles, have range of well over 100 miles, perhaps 1000 miles or more depending on exact model and flight profile. Battleship only has range like 40 miles, IIRC.

I can see lasers maturing to greatly reduce missile capability within a decade. Kinetic and ballistic weapons may have renewed relevance. I can imagine a point defense aircraft escorting strike aircraft on missions. The point defense would provide surface and air to air missile defense. There would be a brief period of a huge strategic advantage where air power could almost be immune to air defense.

Naval ships could replace the Phalanx Gatling gun with a laser - using the pre-existing radar and tracking equipment, just a simpler firing solution.

If not in 10 years, surely within 20.

[Daehawk]

Would be nice not to have so many explosives on board your own ships.

[Holman]

Could a laser destroy or degrade a big artillery shell the way it can destroy a missile?

[dbt1949]

Well, I suppose the heat of the laser would ignite the explosive.

[Kasey Chang]

I can see lasers maturing to greatly reduce missile capability within a decade.

Land-based, sure.

Sea-borne, probably. Nuke-powered ships definitely has the power.

Airborne, unlikely, unless it's something slow like a heavy-lift blimp with OTH radar array and laser powered w/ solar cells.

[Daehawk]

Actually the first working laser and testing was airborne on a 747 and has proven to take out targets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1

[Kasey Chang]

Actually the first working laser and testing was airborne on a 747 and has proven to take out targets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1

Too big of a target. Maybe if they fit it into a "Megafortress" or B-2 or even a "Bone" (B-1) it'd work. But not as a typical strike package nowadays that can fit on a carrier.

[Montag]

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/lockhe ... 1635210849 speak of the devil

[Fretmute]

That's all well and good for the slow missiles of today. Things are going to get harder once they're all hypersonic.

[Montag]

Hypersonic would likely only be good against static targets. Can't see it having high maneuverability.

[Sepiche]

If Master of Orion taught me anything, it's that we need to skip over all this missiles/point defense stuff and just start working on death rays.

[Fretmute]

Hypersonic would likely only be good against static targets. Can't see it having high maneuverability.

You don't need high maneuverability when you're closing at 3 km/s.

[xwraith]

The B-21 is going to be called "Raider"

[Isgrimnur]

Admiral Kuznetsov

Russian’s biggest warship and sole aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov, will make its first combat deployment this year — some 26 years after it was commissioned, according to a news report.

The ship is scheduled to cruise to the eastern Mediterranean Sea in October for a four-month deployment to launch airstrikes against militants in Syria, the Russian news agency TASS reported July 2, citing an unnamed military-diplomatic source in Moscow.

Syria is off the Med.

Russia has announced it is sending its only aircraft carrier to waters off Syria's coast, as diplomats met at the United Nations in an effort to revive Syria's failing ceasefire.

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said the Admiral Kuznetsov, carrying dozens of military aircraft, would be sent to the eastern Mediterranean to join other Russian ships off the war-torn country's coast, state news agencies reported.

[dbt1949]

I read an article about the Russian carrier that says they are going to be hard pressed to come up with enough pilots for the thing, and it only holds 16 planes.

[Isgrimnur]

The B-21 is going to be called "Raider"

Honestly, that's pretty tame as a name. I get the Doolittle context, but they named the B-25 after General Mitchell. But then, naming it the B-21 Doolittle might be a bit too open to jokes.

[Holman]

From a page or two back:

Apparently the Admiral Kuzentsov has 25 latrines for almost 2,000 sailors.

Your Aircraft Carrier Is a Piece of Crap.

And even when the ship functions as intended, her design limits her utility. Admiral Kuzentsov does not have steam catapults like American flatttops do. Instead, her Sukhoi fighters launch into the air off a bow ramp. The fighters must stay light, meaning they can carry only a few air-to-air missiles and a partial fuel load. Their patrol endurance is measured in minutes rather than hours.

English Russia summed up the Russian aircraft carrier’s fundamental limitations succinctly. “Actual aircrafts visit this ship pretty rarely.”

[Kasey Chang]

Bow ramp is what Harrier Jumpjets use on those British pocket carriers when they use to have them. Lets them carry more ordnance than VTOL takeoff.

[Isgrimnur]

B-21: other submissions

Air Force public affairs official Ann Stefanek pointed out the top 15 contenders in an email accompanying the release.

These were, in alphabetical order — Boomerang, Ghost, Horizon, LeMay, Liberator II, Mitchell II, Night Fury, Phoenix, Raider, Shadow Fortress, Stingray, Valkyrie, Victory, Wraith and Zeus II.

These are all reasonable suggestions. While Gen. Curtis LeMay was a controversial figure, his name certainly carries the pedigree for a stealth bomber, as he essentially created America’s nuclear bomber fleet in the 1940s and ’50s. The first Liberators and Mitchells were icons of American air power across North Africa, Europe and the Pacific during World War II.
...
Some of the finalists’ names were already taken. The U.S. Navy claims Stingray for the spy-and-tanker drone it plans to fly from aircraft carriers. Wraith is an unofficial nickname for the RQ-170 surveillance drone.

Many of the rejected names fell into similar categories, including entries based on freedom and liberty. Sequels to historic Air Force planes were popular, such as Dauntless II, Dragon II, Havoc II, Flying Fortress II and Phantom III. Members of the flying branch offered up dozens of monikers beginning with dark, global, shadow, peace, silent and swift.

The Air Force passed on hundreds of joke submissions such as Badasswhoopass, Zoomfist, Bomber McBombface, Plane McPlaneface, Stealthy McStealthface and more.
...
Martial artist and actor Chuck Norris, himself a former Air Force police officer, made the list of bomber names. Same for veterans including Pat Tillman and Chris Kyle. Someone offered up presidents Ulysses Grant and Theodore Roosevelt in the same submission.

Airmen suggested other celebrities, including wrestling superstar John Cena and “Danger Zone” singer-songwriter Kenny Loggins. Other airmen submitted fictional characters Captain America, C-3PO, Darth Vader, Dark Wing Duck and Rainbow Dash.

Spaceships from the Star Wars movies including the Death Star, Millennium Falcon and Y-Wing pop up. At least one of the Bird of Prey suggestions was probably a reference to the Klingon warship from Star Trek, which notably features a cloaking device.

Brand names such as Dorito, Cheeto and the Baconator from the Wendy’s fast food chain make appearances. Perhaps it’s because the basic shape of the B-21 and other secret stealth jets slightly resemble triangular Doritos chips.
...
At least two people submitted references to the far less glamorous A-10 Warthog. The flying branch has repeatedly tried to retire the straight-winged, snub-nosed attack planes, ostensibly to free up money for the F-35 stealth fighter and the B-21.

Suggestions like “YouThinkWeWastedMoneyOnTheF35,hahahahahaha!!!,” “Hole In The Sky To Throw Money Into” and “Do We Really Have The Funding For This” offer some obvious views on the the service’s priorities. Others such as “Our national debt” and “You won’t believe how much this cost you in taxes” are pretty clear cut, as well.

Another service member made particularly good use of the space limits with “DronesRBetterButWeLikeWastingMoneySo…”
...
Someone even put in “Fund the National Institutes of Health.” But perhaps most damning was “THIS is why we can’t have nice stuff at the Deid.”

“Deid” is a popular American nickname for Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar.
...
Less common were inflammatory entries, including references to conspiracy theories involving 9/11 and liberal philanthropist George Soros. Despite having to prove your identity as a member of the Air Force community to add a name, these airmen weren’t deterred from making their opinions known.

Besides, the Air Force had more than enough realistic names to chose from when it picked Raider. The service didn’t have to settle for the B-21 “Triangle Thingy.”

[Isgrimnur]

New hand grenade

The M67 has been around for awhile, being first introduced into service in 1968. And mechanically, it’s little different from the grenades American soldiers lobbed into bunkers during the World Wars. It’s a relic, one still quite practical and useful, that has survived like the M2 Browning machine gun into the 21st century.

But the Army’s Picatinny Arsenal is working on a replacement, which if introduced into service, will amount to the first new lethal American grenade since Vietnam. And there’s an interesting design choice behind it.

The Enhanced Tactical Multi-Purpose grenade, or ET-MP, will be able to switch between two modes and produce two different kinds of explosions, according to Picattiny. At the same time, it brings back an older “concussive” effect absent from the U.S. Army since the 1970s.

Adjust the grenade, and the operator can select a fragmentation or concussion mode.

The ET-MP is also safer for the thrower, Picatinny Arsenal added in an announcement this week. This is because the grenade will feature an electronic fuze, or delay mechanism, unlike the M67’s mechanical fuze. To simplify, an electronic fuze is more reliable over the long term and the detonation can be timed to be extremely precise.

However, the grenade appears to be just a design at this stage, with the Pentagon committing $1.1 million in funding for the 2017 fiscal year — tiny on the scale of other military programs.
...
There’s one more improvement with the ET-MP — it’s ambidextrous.

That’s important because the current M67 was designed for right-handed soldiers, so the Army trains left-handed troops to flip the grenade upside down, holding the safety lever down with the left thumb, while pulling out the ring with the opposite hand.

But that can be awkward for lefties to handle. When dealing with a weapon where a single fumble can kill the thrower and the people around them, awkward is a word you don’t want to hear.

[dbt1949]

We practiced with the WW2 grenades when I was in the army but used the newer types in the field. I always preferred the WW2 type.

[Smoove_B]

As a left handed person, I didn't realize that about grenades and the idea that I could have been in the military and taught how to use and throw one differently is quite frightening. I'll need to keep that in mind if I find a crate of surplus grenades, I suppose. Regardless, wouldn't having an electronic fuse for the new model mean they'd be rendered useless with an EMP? Or are we pretending those don't exist?

[Holman]

A modern force hit with EMP will probably have bigger problems than its grenades not working.

[dbt1949]

With all the soldiers cell phones kaput it would be total mayhem in the soldiers lives. No more Youtube! Ahhhhhhh................

[xwraith]

So apparently the Iranian backed proxies in Yemen now have ASCMs

And a UAE transport was hit and became a complete loss a couple of days ago (it didn't sink, but it is probably going to get scrapped)

They also fired at an Aegis DDG -- and it defended itself with SM-2s and ESSMs

[Grifman]

That's all well and good for the slow missiles of today. Things are going to get harder once they're all hypersonic.

Lasers are the speed of light. Can't get much faster than that

[xwraith]

And apparently they just took another shot at the USS Mason.

[Max Peck]

Navy's new destroyer rides like 'a really souped-up' SUV

What's a ride like in the Navy's largest and most sophisticated new destroyer? Capt. James Kirk compares it to "a really souped-up sport utility vehicle."

"It's not like a Ferrari, but it's like a very big SUV that is made to go very fast," says Kirk, commanding officer of the futuristic USS Zumwalt that's being commissioned Saturday in Baltimore.

With a price tag of at least $4.4 billion, the guided missile destroyer is perhaps more like a stealthy Rolls-Royce. The company manufactured the ship's propellers and generator sets. The Zumwalt also features an unconventional wave-piercing hull.

"Very smooth," is how Lt. Cmdr. Nate Chase described the ride. "You had no fear of having an open cup of coffee and getting jerked around, like some of these other ships."

Here are some other details about the Zumwalt:

STEALTH

The 610-foot-long warship is sleek, with an angular shape to minimize its radar signature. It looks like a much smaller vessel on radar. Quieter than other ships, the Zumwalt is hard to detect, track and attack. A composite deckhouse hides radar and other sensors. Its powerful new gun system can unload 600 rocket-powered projectiles on targets more than 70 miles away.

POWER

Weighing nearly 15,000 tons, the ship's advanced technology and capabilities allow it a range of defensive and offensive missions to project power, wherever it is needed. Kirk says it generates 78 megawatts of power, "enough power to power a medium- to small-sized city." With a motto of Pax Proctor Vim (Peace Through Power), it's unique capability to generate power could be used in ways perhaps not even envisioned yet, such as in the testing and use of laser and directed-energy weapon systems.

MISSILES

The Zumwalt will be able to launch Tomahawk cruise missiles, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles, standard surface-to-air missiles and anti-submarine rockets from 80 missile tubes.

CREW

With 147 officers and sailors, the Zumwalt's crew is the smallest of any destroyer built since the 1930s, thanks to extensive automation. All sailors are cross-trained, and there's more sharing of tasks on the Zumwalt. Sailors have staterooms, instead of bunk rooms with dozens of people in them. "So, when they wake up, they wake up to only one or two alarm clocks, not four, not 50," Kirk says.

[em2nought]

CREW

With 147 officers and sailors, the Zumwalt's crew is the smallest of any destroyer built since the 1930s, thanks to extensive automation. All sailors are cross-trained, and there's more sharing of tasks on the Zumwalt. Sailors have staterooms, instead of bunk rooms with dozens of people in them. "So, when they wake up, they wake up to only one or two alarm clocks, not four, not 50," Kirk says.

[/quote]

Wonder if they're going to start paying engineering sailors more in their new Chinese Route Navy? You can't cross train deck division to do anyone else's job, so they'll only have to do their own job. Lot's of individual staterooms for sailors? Sounds like they better call this ship a baby incubator instead of a destroyer.

[Kasey Chang]

Improvement of living arrangements on navy vessels is a given. The nuclear subs have MUCH much nicer living arrangements than the WW2 subs, for example. It's about efficiency. People who can't relax and rest properly aren't very productive.

[Kraken]

Improvement of living arrangements on navy vessels is a given. The nuclear subs have MUCH much nicer living arrangements than the WW2 subs, for example. It's about efficiency. People who can't relax and rest properly aren't very productive.

It's also about making military service an attractive career in an era that needs better educated, professional soldiers/sailors.

[Grifman]

I don't get why they are classifying this as a destroyer. The thing is bigger than a WW2 cruiser.

[Max Peck]

I don't get why they are classifying this as a destroyer. The thing is bigger than a WW2 cruiser.

Strictly speaking, it seems to be bigger that what currently passes as a cruiser. To make it more confusing, the Zumwalt class is sometimes described as occupying the traditional role of a battleship.

U.S. Navy leaders have launched the first in a new class of surface warships designed for shore bombardment -- a job that traditionally belongs to battleships and heavy cruisers.

This new warship, which emphasizes naval surface fire support, is neither a battleship nor a cruiser, but is large enough to be either one. It's the USS Zumwalt (DDG 1000), and the Navy insists on calling it a destroyer, even though its core mission is far from what one would expect from a destroyer.

The Zumwalt is 600 feet long, nearly 81 feet wide, and displaces 14,800 tons, which makes this vessel larger than the Navy's fleet of Ticonderoga-class cruisers (CG 47), WAY larger than the Navy Arleigh Burke-class destroyers (DDG 51), and is only slightly smaller than the 1950s-vintage Navy nuclear-powered Long Beach-class cruiser.

The Zumwalt, in fact, is roughly the mass of a Virginia-class battleship (BB 13), which was at sea from 1906 to 1920. The Zumwalt, however, is longer than the Virginia, which was only 441 feet long compared to the Zumwalt's 600 feet. The new "destroyer" is the largest vessel seen in a long time -- perhaps ever -- in and around the Bath, Me. shipyards where it is still under construction.

Curiously, despite everything to the contrary, the Navy insists on calling this behemoth a destroyer.

[xwraith]

Russian battlegroup transiting the English Channel

[Isgrimnur]

Long live the Warthog!

The depot line for the A-10 Thunderbolt is cranking back up as part of an effort to keep the Cold War-era aircraft flying “indefinitely,” a general said.

Depot maintenance for the popular close-air-support aircraft, popularly known as the Warthog, has been “fully reopened,” Air Force Materiel Command chief Gen. Ellen Pawlikowski told Aviation Week on Monday.

“They have re-geared up, we’ve turned on the depot line, we’re building it back up in capacity and supply chain,” Pawlikowski said. “Our command, anyway, is approaching this as another airplane that we are sustaining indefinitely.”

Pawlikowski also told the magazine that Air Force maintainers are gearing up to replace the Warthog’s wings, dipping into a $2 billion Boeing contract originally awarded in 2007, according to Popular Mechanics. The contract was intended to upgrade the A-10 when the plan was to keep the aircraft flying until 2028.

[Kasey Chang]

I don't get why they are classifying this as a destroyer. The thing is bigger than a WW2 cruiser.

The ship was developed out of what was called the DD21, i.e. 21st century destroyer project. And they keep cramming stuff into it. It needed missiles (80 VLS launch cells) and rocket launched torpedoes, it needed guns (2 x 155mm AGS), and it needed stealth.

[Kasey Chang]

Other than the Russian equivalent Sukhoi Su-25 Frogfoot, and even that's not an exact matchup, there really isn't anything similar to the A-10 for close air support.

US military is interesting in that it has a lot of niche weapons that nobody else in the world wanted to copy. Nobody copied the AC-130 either. It's a very unique American weapon system.

[Rip]

It isn't that interesting, rich kids always have rich kid toys no one else can afford.

Not many have an aircraft carrier either. Let alone double digits of them.