We Are ... Horrified

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:24 pm

Inverarity wrote:
Lorini wrote:Ex PSU president charged with felonies. Sucks to be him.
This should be interesting.

Yes, while Sandusky is who everyone wants to see suffer the most, it's the prosecution and conviction of these guys that will really change institutional policies and help kids.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:09 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Inverarity wrote:
Lorini wrote:Ex PSU president charged with felonies. Sucks to be him.
This should be interesting.
Yes, while Sandusky is who everyone wants to see suffer the most, it's the prosecution and conviction of these guys that will really change institutional policies and help kids.

No. Sandusky is a very sick man. He's in jail where he belongs. These people are the ones I want to see suffer, the ones who should have known better and threw those poor boys to the wolf.

Dogstar · Post by **Dogstar** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:03 pm

Just because a politician couldn't possibly let an opportunity to gain some votes go to waste...

Tom Corbett and the state of Pennsylvania sue the NCAA over the sanctions applied after the Sandusky scandal.

This suit arises out of the NCAA and its member institutions' arbitrary and capricious application of their enforcement power for the purpose of crippling Penn State football, thereby harming citizens of the Commonwealth who benefit from a successful football program at Penn State, among them citizens who earn income by working in the stadium on game days; the shop owners whose small businesses generate significant revenue from the sale of Penn State memorabilia; the students who help pay tuition by waiting tables filled with alumni and fans who patronize restaurants and bars before and after games; the hotel owners and employees whose jobs depend on the continued influx of tourists to central Pennsylvania; and the Penn State swimmers and other athletes whose programs are largely funded by football revenue.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:02 pm

So they're going to sue the NCAA like they were BP with an oil rig accident?

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:22 pm

NCAA is not stopping them from playing football but PA didn't get that memo. They can play all the football they want, they just can't play NCAA sanctioned football. Also the NCAA doesn't owe them money. Not to mention that the idiot who is suing is the same one who turned a blind eye to what was going on at Penn State. What a waste of taxpayer money.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:48 pm

The argument that they dropped a nuke when a grenade would have sufficed does have merit as the collateral damage is huge in this one and thousands of people are being punished for the actions of a hand full of assholes. On the other hand the sheer horror of what transpired at Penn State will likely curtail any sympathy for the collateral effect of the sanctions so I doubt that this goes anywhere, in the long run. Its unfortunate when the system has to create even more victims in order to punish those responsible but in this case, I doubt very much that this suit will be anything more than a waste of time.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:10 pm

Because they are still playing NCAA football, I don't see the collateral damage argument having a lot of weight. They are selling out their football stadium, they are playing good football for the most part and the football program is moving forward. The vendors are still making money as well. I don't see the victims here except for the school administration which should have been punished.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:25 pm

They were bowl eligible by wins and at 8-4 would have had a pretty decent bowl. That alone costs the school, the vendors and many others millions. The football team, student athletes and coaches, as well as the student body and millions of Penn Sate fans, who had absolutely nothing to do with what transpired with Sandusky were also punished as collateral damage. Now Im not arguing right or wrong here and Im no fan of PSU, Im just saying dismissing the collateral effect of the sanctions because they are still playing football is very narrow in scope.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:37 pm

I guess my Los Angeles sports team bias is showing here. The students weren't 'punished' because of the NCAA sanctions, they are still getting the education they went there for, just like the students at USC. While I'm sure USC lost vendors during their sanctions, their sanctions also coincided with the Great Recession (still ongoing in California) so there's no way to know. I also know many students enjoy collegiate sports but Penn State doesn't exist to have a football team. This attitude is exactly what got Penn State in trouble in the first place, they forgot who they were and why they were there. And I'd like to see some real numbers on the impact on all of these victims, instead of a lot of hand waving, which is what I've been seeing. The only real victims are the high school students who were hoping to get a football scholarship and didn't and therefore either went to a lesser college or didn't go to college at all. Those were victims (which are totally ignored as usual).

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:40 pm

rshetts2 wrote:They were bowl eligible by wins and at 8-4 would have had a pretty decent bowl. That alone costs the school, the vendors and many others millions. The football team, student athletes and coaches, as well as the student body and millions of Penn Sate fans, who had absolutely nothing to do with what transpired with Sandusky were also punished as collateral damage. Now Im not arguing right or wrong here and Im no fan of PSU, Im just saying dismissing the collateral effect of the sanctions because they are still playing football is very narrow in scope.

So explain, then, under what measures the Governor of Pennsylvania has to sue on this, when Penn State University consented to this punishment and signed a consent agreement that basically means that their sanctions are a self-punishment?

(The school is specifically NOT joining this civil action, and has said as much.)

Don't say "Taxpayer dollars", either. Former US senator George Mitchell has been appointed as a trustee to oversee the financials on the consent agreement and make sure that all fines donated by the school come exclusively from athletic department generated revenue.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:24 pm

The governor can fuck off. I'm sick of Penn State

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:15 pm

rshetts2 wrote:They were bowl eligible by wins and at 8-4 would have had a pretty decent bowl. That alone costs the school, the vendors and many others millions. The football team, student athletes and coaches, as well as the student body and millions of Penn Sate fans, who had absolutely nothing to do with what transpired with Sandusky were also punished as collateral damage. Now Im not arguing right or wrong here and Im no fan of PSU, Im just saying dismissing the collateral effect of the sanctions because they are still playing football is very narrow in scope.

Good stuff. The more tears shed over this, the better.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:17 pm

triggercut wrote:
rshetts2 wrote:They were bowl eligible by wins and at 8-4 would have had a pretty decent bowl. That alone costs the school, the vendors and many others millions. The football team, student athletes and coaches, as well as the student body and millions of Penn Sate fans, who had absolutely nothing to do with what transpired with Sandusky were also punished as collateral damage. Now Im not arguing right or wrong here and Im no fan of PSU, Im just saying dismissing the collateral effect of the sanctions because they are still playing football is very narrow in scope.
So explain, then, under what measures the Governor of Pennsylvania has to sue on this, when Penn State University consented to this punishment and signed a consent agreement that basically means that their sanctions are a self-punishment?

(The school is specifically NOT joining this civil action, and has said as much.)

Don't say "Taxpayer dollars", either. Former US senator George Mitchell has been appointed as a trustee to oversee the financials on the consent agreement and make sure that all fines donated by the school come exclusively from athletic department generated revenue.

You're taking my statement completely out of context. I was answering the question of how the punishment has cause collateral damage, since Lorini claims there is none. The explanation has nothing to do with the suit or the Governor of Pennsylvania. It is completely about the side effects of the sanctions, not the legality of imposing them. Which is what I stated at the end of that quote.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:22 pm

triggercut wrote:
rshetts2 wrote:They were bowl eligible by wins and at 8-4 would have had a pretty decent bowl. That alone costs the school, the vendors and many others millions. The football team, student athletes and coaches, as well as the student body and millions of Penn Sate fans, who had absolutely nothing to do with what transpired with Sandusky were also punished as collateral damage. Now Im not arguing right or wrong here and Im no fan of PSU, Im just saying dismissing the collateral effect of the sanctions because they are still playing football is very narrow in scope.
So explain, then, under what measures the Governor of Pennsylvania has to sue on this, when Penn State University consented to this punishment and signed a consent agreement that basically means that their sanctions are a self-punishment?

(The school is specifically NOT joining this civil action, and has said as much.)

Don't say "Taxpayer dollars", either. Former US senator George Mitchell has been appointed as a trustee to oversee the financials on the consent agreement and make sure that all fines donated by the school come exclusively from athletic department generated revenue.

The point they are making is that those athletic department funds went to keep other sports afloat such as women's volleyball and swimming.

It's a valid point, but still pales to what the athletic department and administration did to cover up and further enable these crimes.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:18 am

I've been watching the updates on the Steubenville, Ohio rape case as they happen over the past few weeks. While not nearly as heinous as Sandusky being protected after the fact through unofficial University policy to turn a blind eye towards anything that might affect their reputation, it's still pretty sickening to see how the culture of school athletics almost gave these kids a free pass for the crime after a 16 year old girl was drugged (or, at the very least, drunk enough that there was no way she could have given consent to anything that night) and dumped on her parent's lawn.

There's a video embedded in the above link of an OU student and Steubenville High School graduate who was either involved or, at the very least, present when some of this was happening. In it, the young man jokes about how the victim must have died after the gang rape...then continues making jokes about her death (she didn't die, by the way) and the rape itself.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:31 am

rshetts2 wrote: They were bowl eligible by wins and at 8-4 would have had a pretty decent bowl. That alone costs the school, the vendors and many others millions. The football team, student athletes and coaches, as well as the student body and millions of Penn Sate fans, who had absolutely nothing to do with what transpired with Sandusky were also punished as collateral damage. Now Im not arguing right or wrong here and Im no fan of PSU, Im just saying dismissing the collateral effect of the sanctions because they are still playing football is very narrow in scope.

Everyone crying about losing money, the stadium workers, bars, stores, etc, all hitched themselves the to PSU wagon. They were happily making money during the good times, when Sandusky was raping boys at PSU facilities. They had no idea it was going on obviously, but nonetheless, they were dependent on a rotten organization. PSU football failed so they fail with it. Essentially what you're asking for here, or what the suit is asking for at any rate, is a bailout for everyone who makes money off PSU football. Or more specifically, since PSU still played football, everyone who makes extra money off PSU having a winning program (which they still did) and PSU in bowl games.

Dogstar · Post by **Dogstar** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:50 am

Since this might as well become the catch-all thread for incidents of this type...

Why I Won't Be Cheering for Old Notre Dame.

Well, since you asked — and many of my friends have, some more than once — no, I will not be cheering for my alma mater, the University of Notre Dame, to win big-time college football’s championship on Jan. 7. What’s really surprising me are those who believe as I do that two players on the team have committed serious criminal acts – sexual assault in one case, and rape in another — but assumed that I’d support the team anyway, just as they are...

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:08 pm

So I did the research I asked Reemul to do and here is what I found.

*Penn State went from being the 2nd most profitable school in NCAA division 1 football to the 11th most profitable. This however can be totally explained by the loss of a home game between 2011 and 2012
*Penn State made $4.5 million in ticket sales alone. There was no drop off in the average sales per game from 2011 to 2012
*Penn State sold 95% of its season tickets by the end of May 2012, down from 2011 however the rest of the season made up the difference in sales

So since the number of people buying tickets and attending the games didn't drop off, there basically would be no explanation of how there was some sort of financial 'collateral damage'. SportsEconomist.com agrees, they think the Corbett claims are ridiculous. The loss of the bowl game has little effect on 'collateral damage' since bowl games are not held at Penn State. And frankly if Penn State would have been bowl eligible and showed up at the Rose Bowl, there would have been some real serious collateral damage as USC Trojan fans would have been livid. Sports Economist went on to say that the financial impact of Penn State on the revenues of the state are minimal, since Pennsylvania is far far bigger than the state college.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:38 pm

Corbett (Gov-PA) is a scumbag on just about every issue. He's throwing his weight behind Penn State to try and buff his long-sagging popularity.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:35 am

Penn State has agreed to pay $59.7 million to 26 victims. There are still six outstanding claims under review.

The money will be coming from liability insurance claims. I'm sure that will do wonders for their rates.

Gavin · Post by **Gavin** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:51 am

This occurance is still shocking. I will never understand the kind of mentality that would take such advantage of kids. It is nice to see that it isn't going unpunished. Don't know if it has become a witch hunt or something like that (haven't been keeping up with it sense) but at least it has come to light and those victims know that people are getting punished.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:01 am

Gavin wrote:This occurance is still shocking. I will never understand the kind of mentality that would take such advantage of kids. It is nice to see that it isn't going unpunished. Don't know if it has become a witch hunt or something like that (haven't been keeping up with it sense) but at least it has come to light and those victims know that people are getting punished.

Money talks. With these settlements, other institutions will think twice before trying to bury a similar scandal.

Unfortunately I think some principals are dodging criminal prosecution but overall it's an encouraging outcome.

Default · Post by **Default** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:19 pm

The situation sucks and there isn't enough criminal prosecution (imho), but Penn State isn't going to be hurt financially in any meaningful way. The same factors that prevented people from reporting abuse are the same ones that keep in profitable. The fact that PSU is the only significant employer in Central PA, prevented people from coming forward because no one wanted to lose their jobs. You lose your job, you might be able to pick up one in Harrisburg, if you want to drive two hours one way. They also have an insular, podunk police force that isn't interested in rocking the boat.

Penn State is the only damned thing in Centre County. Too far to go to major league baseball, hockey or basketball games, little in the way of culture or nightlife beyond the roadhouse bars. Therefore people pour into State College because it's the only damned thing to do on a fall weekend.

I'm convinced that if this happened in Philly or Pittsburgh instead of Happy Valley, Sandusky would have been caught earlier.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:36 pm

63-14 Loss Disgraces Penn State Football Program

STATE COLLEGE, PA—Following a humiliating 63-14 defeat against Ohio State over the weekend, officials at Pennsylvania State University on Tuesday called the blowout loss a blemish on the school’s storied football program, and the college’s biggest disgrace in recent memory. “Frankly, it’s unacceptable to have the Nittany Lions associated with something loathsome like this,” head coach Bill O’Brien told reporters, claiming that his team’s one-sided loss—its worst in nearly 114 years—does not align with the school’s values, and represents a black eye from which it may never recover. “To see our boys fail time and time again to create plays—and in a conference game, no less—it’s just reprehensible. I never thought I’d say this, but when the clock ran down and I got a final look at that scoreboard, I was actually ashamed to be associated with Penn State football.” O’Brien added that deceased head coach Joe Paterno was “probably rolling over in his grave” when his former team allowed the Buckeyes to put up 408 yards rushing

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:39 pm

There isn't a rollyeyes big enough for those remarks.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:43 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:There isn't a rollyeyes big enough for those remarks.

You might want to look at the news source.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:54 pm

Dammit!

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:57 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Dammit!

Your new job has dulled your previously keen internet sense. Might want to consider quitting before you get too soft.

Next thing you know, you'll be falling for a lowly Rickroll! For help with this issue, click HERE

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:00 pm

Surprisingly Isg wasn't the only one to fall for the article, and PSU officials are actually commenting on it. Bizarre.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:27 pm

Steubenville, Ohio, superintendent resigns

A school superintendent accused of misleading authorities investigating the rape of a girl by two high school football players resigned from the district, prompting prosecutors to drop the charges.

Jury selection in the trial of suspended Steubenville schools superintendent Mike McVey was to begin Monday, but the Ohio Attorney General's office agreed to dismiss all pending charges against him following his resignation.

McVey, who pleaded not guilty to felony charges of obstructing justice and tampering with evidence, had been accused of destroying data related to the school's investigation of the August 2012 rape of the 16-year-old West Virginia girl.

McVey wiped computer hard drives, erased emails and lied to investigators about his knowledge of the allegations against the boys, authorities said.
...
McVey also was accused of concealing knowledge about rumors of sex and drinking at a teen party four months earlier.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:51 pm

Well, he got off easy. It sucks to lose your job but the article implies proof that he destroyed evidence and that makes him complicit for the rape, IMHO. They should put him on the sex offenders list for that bull shit.

Biyobi · Post by **Biyobi** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:10 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Well, he got off easy. It sucks to lose your job but the article implies proof that he destroyed evidence and that makes him complicit for the rape, IMHO. They should put him on the sex offenders list for that bull shit.

Incredibly easy. The Ohio AG just made it a lot easier on the next asshole willing to look the other way. I hope the girl is able to sue his ass into the ground for emotion distress.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:14 pm

Yeah, I'm not real thrilled with the whole idea of getting to quit your job to avoid criminal prosecution. At least his face and name are enough in the media that he shouldn't ever get another chance to work in a capacity where children are under his charge again, though I'm sure some district somewhere will be willing to hire him on the cheap.

Reuters

Michael McVey, 51, a high school superintendent with Steubenville City Schools, agreed to resign and never accept another position with the district before an Ohio judge on Monday.
...
Prosecutor Angie Canepa told the court that the state felt confident it could show that emails and computer data had been deleted from McVey's computer after a subpoena was issued. But it lacked direct evidence of his participation, and decided not to pursue charges.

McVey's lawyer, Charles Bean, said the defense always believed prosecutors couldn't prove their case.

McVey will keep his pension, Bean said.
...
Steubenville City Schools' technology director William Rhinaman, 54, pleaded not guilty to obstruction of justice and perjury charges, and is awaiting trail.

Seth Fluharty, 27, an assistant wrestling coach and special education teacher, was indicted for failing to report child abuse or neglect, a misdemeanor, as was Lynnett Gorman, 41, an elementary school principal.

Charges against both Gorman and Fluharty were dismissed, pending the completion of community service and other programs.

Matthew Belardine, 27, a former volunteer assistant football coach, spent 10 days in jail after pleading no contest to the first-degree misdemeanors of falsification and allowing underage drinking in connection with the rape.

In December, Belardine was sentenced to 60 days in jail for violating conditions of his parole.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:19 pm

Did the prosecutors say why they dropped the charges?

"He quit his job, so, meh." Doesn't right.

Edit:

Wait. What?

McVey will keep his pension, Bean said.

So he's set up for the rest of his life in exchange for all charges being dropped? It really doesn't sound right. I hope there is a lot more to it then that. Maybe they took at look at the DoJ and Financial Sector or The Chrysler folks who sold the company to Daimler?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:34 pm

LordMortis wrote:
McVey will keep his pension, Bean said.
So he's set up for the rest of his life in exchange for all charges being dropped? It really doesn't sound right. I hope there is a lot more to it then that. Maybe they took at look at the DoJ and Financial Sector or The Chrysler folks who sold the company to Daimler?

Unions/laws make it tough to take away pensions. We just had a measure on the ballot here to make it easier after a police commander kept his pension despite being convicted of torturing and abusing suspects. It was state law that he got to keep it.

Michael McVey, 51, a high school superintendent with Steubenville City Schools, agreed to resign and never accept another position with the district before an Ohio judge on Monday.

I see they're taking the Boston archdiocese ca. 1980 approach to "punishment."

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:24 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
McVey will keep his pension, Bean said.
So he's set up for the rest of his life in exchange for all charges being dropped? It really doesn't sound right. I hope there is a lot more to it then that. Maybe they took at look at the DoJ and Financial Sector or The Chrysler folks who sold the company to Daimler?
Unions/laws make it tough to take away pensions. We just had a measure on the ballot here to make it easier after a police commander kept his pension despite being convicted of torturing and abusing suspects. It was state law that he got to keep it.

Michael McVey, 51, a high school superintendent with Steubenville City Schools, agreed to resign and never accept another position with the district before an Ohio judge on Monday.
I see they're taking the Boston archdiocese ca. 1980 approach to "punishment."

A school superintendent is not, and may never have been a union employee. I find it hard to blame management pensions on unions.

In the case you cited, the cop had been a regular union employee prior to any promotion, which would be a union pension being protected by collective bargaining.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:59 am

Pyperkub wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
McVey will keep his pension, Bean said.
So he's set up for the rest of his life in exchange for all charges being dropped? It really doesn't sound right. I hope there is a lot more to it then that. Maybe they took at look at the DoJ and Financial Sector or The Chrysler folks who sold the company to Daimler?
Unions/laws make it tough to take away pensions. We just had a measure on the ballot here to make it easier after a police commander kept his pension despite being convicted of torturing and abusing suspects. It was state law that he got to keep it.

Michael McVey, 51, a high school superintendent with Steubenville City Schools, agreed to resign and never accept another position with the district before an Ohio judge on Monday.
I see they're taking the Boston archdiocese ca. 1980 approach to "punishment."
A school superintendent is not, and may never have been a union employee. I find it hard to blame management pensions on unions.

In the case you cited, the cop had been a regular union employee prior to any promotion, which would be a union pension being protected by collective bargaining.

That's why I said unions/laws. In this case it is probably a law. He's a state employee. The point I was trying to make was that pensions are notoriously hard to strip.

District hopping appears to be common too, so banning him from the district is hardly punishment.

cleveland.com wrote:Cheryl Ryan, deputy director for school board services at Ohio School Boards Association, said superintendents average four years at a district.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:20 pm

Disgusting -- NCAA reaches settlement to restore vacated wins:

The NCAA will restore all of Joe Paterno's vacated wins at Penn State, the organization announced on Friday. ESPN's Don Van Natta Jr. first reported the news.

The restoration is part of a proposed settlement in Pa. Senate Majority Leader Jake Corman's lawsuit against the NCAA.

Good to see a state Senate Majority Leader's time and energy being spent on this.

Suitably Ironic Moniker · Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:16 pm

I don't see the issue with reinstating the wins, especially in regards to the student-athletes that played in that era. To have all of one's W/L record, not to mention any personal or team records set back then, wiped out is truly unfair. Paterno should have done more, but he wasn't the one who molested the kids, besides which, what did the wins have to do with it anyway? It always seemed an arbitrary punishment to me.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:38 pm

The issue is the fact that a coach under his supervision sexually molested children for 15+ years. I don't believe for five seconds he didn't know about it and even if he somehow magically didn't, his role as head coach means it's his responsibility to make sure these things aren't happening.

It's my opinion they shouldn't even have a football team anymore. You don't deal with that type of organizational cancer by trying to erase wins. You remove it by killing the culture that let it happen in the first place. The fact that a Senator took it upon himself to restore what was at best a symbolic effort to somehow acknowledge Paterno's role in all this is disgusting.