We Are ... Horrified

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:24 pm

msduncan wrote:These penalties appear to be about 3 times as bad (if you factor in the monetary amounts) as what Alabama was hit with in the early 2000's. It took us over 5 years to recover.

On a side note, Coach Paul Bryant became the coach with the 2nd most wins once again, behind Bobby Bowden.

I could see it taking 15 years or more to recover on the field.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:18 pm

Holy crap, PSU might as well just shut down the program for a couple of years. Wow.

msduncan wrote:These penalties appear to be about 3 times as bad (if you factor in the monetary amounts) as what Alabama was hit with in the early 2000's. It took us over 5 years to recover.

They seem quite a bit worse, and I don't expect their program to come back nearly as quickly as yours did. I wouldn't be surprised if it took 20 years. Edit: Pyperkub said roughly the same. Sorry for the repeat.

On a side note, Coach Paul Bryant became the coach with the 2nd most wins once again, behind Bobby Bowden.

Technically he's now 3rd. Eddie Robinson is #1 at 408, Bowden is #2. I'm not sure why the mainstream media always discounts Robinson.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:55 pm

Bowden is number one in FBS though. Robinson didn't compete in FBS as far as I know.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:27 pm

Lorini wrote:Bowden is number one in FBS though. Robinson didn't compete in FBS as far as I know.

Correct. And it's not just media -- the NCAA counts only FBS

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:37 pm

Mark Schlabach ‏@Mark_Schlabach
Was told by an #SEC coach that another #SEC coach had offered 3 #PennState players scholarships by 9:30 a.m. today

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:41 am

triggercut wrote:Mark Schlabach ‏@Mark_Schlabach
Was told by an #SEC coach that another #SEC coach had offered 3 #PennState players scholarships by 9:30 a.m. today

And this is surprising because...?

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:06 am

Skinypupy wrote:
triggercut wrote:Mark Schlabach ‏@Mark_Schlabach
Was told by an #SEC coach that another #SEC coach had offered 3 #PennState players scholarships by 9:30 a.m. today
And this is surprising because...?

I'm not sure I said it was surprising, necessarily.

Posted it because I thought it was interesting and illustrative.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:28 am

msduncan wrote:
Lorini wrote:Bowden is number one in FBS though. Robinson didn't compete in FBS as far as I know.
Correct. And it's not just media -- the NCAA counts only FBS

No, the NCAA does not count only FBS. They count all divisions. That makes John Gagliardi #1, and Bear Bryant #4 (and soon to be #5!), not #2.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:53 am

triggercut wrote:
Skinypupy wrote:
triggercut wrote:Mark Schlabach ‏@Mark_Schlabach
Was told by an #SEC coach that another #SEC coach had offered 3 #PennState players scholarships by 9:30 a.m. today
And this is surprising because...?
I'm not sure I said it was surprising, necessarily.

Posted it because I thought it was interesting and illustrative.

Agreed.

I'm perfectly OK with the ruling, and actually think it's a bit lenient. The only people I feel bad for are the lower to mid-level players (i.e. those not likely to get picked up elsewhere) who are getting caught up in all this while having nothing to do with it.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:57 am

Skinypupy wrote: I'm perfectly OK with the ruling, and actually think it's a bit lenient. The only people I feel bad for are the lower to mid-level players (i.e. those not likely to get picked up elsewhere) who are getting caught up in all this while having nothing to do with it.

I believe if they were on scholarship they can keep it and stay. Those not on scholarship, well they were there to go to school, right? Last I heard the school was still there.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:10 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Skinypupy wrote: I'm perfectly OK with the ruling, and actually think it's a bit lenient. The only people I feel bad for are the lower to mid-level players (i.e. those not likely to get picked up elsewhere) who are getting caught up in all this while having nothing to do with it.
I believe if they were on scholarship they can keep it and stay. Those not on scholarship, well they were there to go to school, right? Last I heard the school was still there.

Exactly...these are SCHOOLS first, with athletic programs originally designed as extracurricular activities.

This is why I cringed every time I read the word "suffer" in the posts above. That's really not the correct word, IMO, for this case. Yes, the sanctions are harsh. But this is supposed to be SPORT, a GAME, maybe a game too many take too seriously (I admit freely I get caught up in the machine and feeding frenzy as much as the next guy). Especially terrible choice of words since the only real suffering here will be in the minds of the raped kids. *That's* suffering, not whiny, entitled college football fans who expect to end up in the top 25 each year, now decidedly not going to do so.

If I put myself in a Penn State student's shoes, I would certainly be crushed. Sad as hell, probably angry, but I wouldn't be suffering. I would like to think that after my initial bitching and moaning, I would accept the decision as the RIGHT THING TO DO.

I guess one of the messages the NCAA was trying to send (and even if not, maybe we as a college football community should consider) was that in Penn State's case (and assuredly in dozens if not more other college campuses), the GAME became so powerful and important, that it trumped the safety of individual lives, really. Maybe we've gone too far, and somehow need to reel it in.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:41 pm

Michigan just picked up Ross Douglass, a 4-star corner decommit from PSU. Not sure if that's the first guy who has officially left and committed elsewhere, but it has officially started. He's not a current player, though, just had committed to PSU.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:47 pm

As someone that doesn't care about college football, I'll be curious to see if there are other negative impacts that affect the operation of the university. I guess things like declining enrollment and/or gifts from alumni. There's part of me that thinks there's going to be some type of plea to alumni for funds as a way to make up that $60 million...and that's just creepy.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:00 pm

Smoove_B wrote:As someone that doesn't care about college football, I'll be curious to see if there are other negative impacts that affect the operation of the university. I guess things like declining enrollment and/or gifts from alumni. There's part of me that thinks there's going to be some type of plea to alumni for funds as a way to make up that $60 million...and that's just creepy.

My gut reaction at the beginning of all of this was that Penn State should volunteer to check out of football for at least five years; long enough for the stain to be washed away, where a new class starts mostly unaware of the history. After thinking about this for a long time, I don't care for the institution being punished and not even the program (directly). They will both be punished enough by the court of public opinion. If you were an out of state parent, would you let you 18 year old go to PSU right now? As a football player, would you want to play for PSU? How far down does PSU get moved as prospective school for most kids this year? Next year? The year after?

OTOH, we should absolutely crucify every one actually involved in the cover up and for the sake of the students having to deal with this fallout I think that kids should be able to transfer out, scholarships in tact, no penalty at PSU's expense.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:07 pm

I mentioned it earlier - we have an extended family member that just graduated H.S. and will be attending PSU this September. I have no idea what she's planning on studying or why exactly PSU made the cut, but I couldn't imagine a worse time to be going.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:23 pm

The alumni already contributed a record $260M to PSU last year. I'm sure it'll only get to be more next year, in fact it wouldn't surprise me one bit if an alum offers to pay the $60M. They love their school those PSU alum. If you look at it from a glass half full perspective it could be the best time to go. They will be on their toes about compliance (and not just about football) for the next few years at least.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:30 pm

All I know is I am going to have a good time razzing UPenn grads by asking them how their school will handle NCAA sanctions.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:44 pm

And it becomes even more apparent why Penn State accepted the penalties with apparent ease... it was better than it would be.

If Penn State had not accepted the package of NCAA sanctions announced Monday, the Nittany Lions faced a historic death penalty of four years, university president Rodney Erickson told "Outside the Lines" on Wednesday afternoon.

Per ESPN

Erickson said if Penn State did not agree to the sanctions, a formal investigation would have begun and the university could have faced a multiyear death penalty, as well as "other sanctions," including a financial penalty far greater than $60 million.

Self imposed in that they talked themselves down from outright destruction of their program.

Edit to add:

Penn State Trustees are still oblivious it would seem:

Another trustee said there is a growing movement among some trustees to attempt to challenge the consent decree in court.

"They've destroyed the school, as far as I'm concerned," this trustee said. "Think of the innocent players hurt by this. They had nothing to do with this and they have to pay the price."

I'm afraid if they fight it it will only get worse for them. Hopefully they come to their senses. Especially since the NCAA leadership is ready to really throw down the hammer on them:

Emmert told Erickson in a phone conversation on July 17 that a majority of the NCAA's leadership wanted to levy the four-year penalty

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:34 pm

If they ever got competent counsel, I'm fairly sure he or she would advise that they not sue. If their president and president of the board of trustees' agreement on something isn't valid, then what is?

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:52 am

Graham, since you handled things so well at Penn State, we'd like to hire you as a consultant...

Bloomberg wrote:Graham Spanier, ousted as president of Pennsylvania State University over the Jerry Sandusky child sex-abuse scandal, has taken a national-security job working with the U.S. government, a university spokesman said.

David La Torre, the school’s spokesman, described the job in an e-mail yesterday as a part-time consulting position and declined to provide further details. Spanier and his lawyer, Peter Vaira, didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:04 am

Always nice to have friends in high places, otherwise known as WTF were they thinking???

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:06 pm

So the Paterno family asked to appeal the sanctions and the NCAA said no. Looks like they are trying to set up for a lawsuit but from what I can see, they don't have standing as well as the fact that the courts are almost certainly not going to get involved with an organization's right to sanction their members...that's pretty longstanding.

Biyobi · Post by **Biyobi** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:49 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:Graham, since you handled things so well at Penn State, we'd like to hire you as a consultant...

Bloomberg wrote:Graham Spanier, ousted as president of Pennsylvania State University over the Jerry Sandusky child sex-abuse scandal, has taken a national-security job working with the U.S. government, a university spokesman said.

David La Torre, the school’s spokesman, described the job in an e-mail yesterday as a part-time consulting position and declined to provide further details. Spanier and his lawyer, Peter Vaira, didn’t immediately respond to requests for comment.

The U.S. Government desperately needs advice on covering things up. Too many things end up in the press lately.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:30 pm

And trustees have officially appealed the sanctions. ESPN

I'm afraid Penn State just doesn't know when to stop when they are ahead. Certainly doesn't seem very self-imposed.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:02 pm

Seems like PennState hasn't learned its lesson. That's playing with fire.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:39 pm

And wasting tax payer's money.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:58 pm

For what it's worth, it's something like 4 of the 32 trustees who have filed the appeal and are threatening suit, so this is not unanimous by any means. I think they're trying to win over the others, but for now it's a small portion of the trustees doing this.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:02 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:For what it's worth, it's something like 4 of the 32 trustees who have filed the appeal and are threatening suit, so this is not unanimous by any means. I think they're trying to win over the others, but for now it's a small portion of the trustees doing this.

That's 7:1 odds. This calls for consensus by combat.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:25 pm

Jeffrey Ross: Unapologetic Comedian

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:59 pm

ImLawBoy wrote:For what it's worth, it's something like 4 of the 32 trustees who have filed the appeal and are threatening suit, so this is not unanimous by any means. I think they're trying to win over the others, but for now it's a small portion of the trustees doing this.

These four are asserting that they have standing over the college President? Do they not see the irony here?

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:02 pm

Lorini wrote:
ImLawBoy wrote:For what it's worth, it's something like 4 of the 32 trustees who have filed the appeal and are threatening suit, so this is not unanimous by any means. I think they're trying to win over the others, but for now it's a small portion of the trustees doing this.
These four are asserting that they have standing over the college President? Do they not see the irony here?

I don't think they're asserting that. I think they're saying that the president didn't have the authority to agree to this without first taking it to the board.

I don't know, maybe that is claiming that they have standing over the president. I don't know how PSU is structured, though, and how the trustees and president are supposed to interact. They may have a point, procedurally speaking, but I don't have enough info to make that determination.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:43 pm

What's the irony? The Board of a university generally has authority over the president, most concretely illustrated by their power to hire and fire the president.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:27 pm

Freezer-TPF- wrote:What's the irony? The Board of a university generally has authority over the president, most concretely illustrated by their power to hire and fire the president.

The board itself does, but not four people of 32. They have nothing close to a majority, and just like they are saying the president alone can't determine whether or not the school should appeal the sanctions, neither can they. The president of the Board of Trustees also approved the action by the President of the university. My suspicion is that it's going to be thrown out on this fact alone. They at least need to get nine more trustees. OR they can try to throw out the president of the university or the president of the Board.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:15 pm

Has anyone explained to the 4 members of the Board who are appealing the decision how punitive damages are awarded in civil cases?

Because seriously, there are some lawyers representing victims who are high fiving over this. The tone-deaf stupidity at Penn State continues.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:13 pm

Their little feelings are hurt so they have to show they matter. I hope the rest of the Board votes them out.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:41 pm

So the board is going to ratify the sanctions which will shut the rebels up (hopefully).

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:15 pm

Lorini wrote:So the board is going to ratify the sanctions which will shut the rebels up (hopefully).

Handful of Trustees: We protest! The President can't act without the consent of the Trustees!
Board of Trustees: We consent.
Handful of Trustees:

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:53 am

It ain't over yet.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:37 am

Good lord. I guess that shouldn't be surprising, yet I am still...shocked.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:18 am

I had read in an earlier article (I can't remember which periodical) that there were rumors about this kind of thing (trafficking in children for some alumni by Sandusky), but I had chalked it up to just that...rumors. God I hope it isn't true. If so, I hope Sandusky lives a very long time...and in horrible pain and suffering throughout that life.