Buying your first home

[Freezer-TPF-]

]Oh, and make sure the a/c drain is clear before you get into the high humidity season. Ask me how I know!

Yikes! Overflowing condensation pan?

Pretty much. The trap on the drain pipe was clogged, so the water backed up and eventually overflowed the pan. I discovered it on Friday afternoon right as we were getting ready to leave for two nights(!!!), and luckily we caught it fairly early (towels for clean-up rather than wet vacs). If I had not looked in the closet and we had left, we would have come back Sunday to a much more serious situation. Apparently, the previous owner had not really checked/flushed the drain in many, many years.

As it was, there was water on the floor in half of the large utility closet (of course it didn't make it to the drain or sump...) and the carpet around the outside of the closet was damp. We applied a space heater, dehumidifier, fan, and at times even a hair dryer to speed up the drying process. Everything has seemed pretty dry for the last few days, but we're running the gizmos a few more days to make sure we've gotten everything as dry as possible.

I bought some Leakfrogs a while ago from woot!, but of course I hadn't gotten around to setting them up. I am just very lucky I looked in that closet on Friday.

Other than a little warping on a door jamb, I think we should be fine going forward, but I'm sure Smoove will be here shortly to explain how less than perfectly dry carpet padding will eventually kill my entire family.

[Smoove_B]

Have we talked about Legionellosis yet?

Infection normally occurs after inhaling an aerosol containing Legionella bacteria. Such particles could originate from any infected water source. When mechanical action breaks the surface of the water, small water droplets are formed, which evaporate very quickly. If these droplets contain bacteria, the bacteria cells remain suspended in the air, invisible to the naked eye and small enough to be inhaled into the lungs. This often occurs in poorly ventilated areas such as prisons where a condensating air conditioner can spread it throughout the entire room, infecting anyone not immune to the strain of bacteria.

[Freezer-TPF-]

Urf.

[Kelric]

Plot twist: it's a short sale, which the selling agent didn't disclose until they had my offer in hand. I'm TRENT SMASH!!!!! angry right now. They owe $170k, but I don't know how many lenders are involved, and I offered $120k expecting a regular negotiation and sale. On the bright side the selling agent claims she has told the home owner to accept the offer, so then I just have to deal with the lender deciding they want more money from me, or someone else makes a higher offer, or they don't want to sell for that low anyway, or they take several months to even process it, or they don't like my financing....

[Freezer-TPF-]

I'd withdraw the offer immediately unless the bank has already approved their asking price for the short sale. The homeowner accepting the offer means nothing.

[malchior]

Dude, that blows. They should have disclosed that before even showing it. Short sales are a huge pain in the ass. The homeowner can accept anything. It doesn't matter. The bank is the only one that matters. You need to find out if they have even started the process because they can take months to even approve the homeowners application for a short sale.

[Carpet_pissr]

Plot twist: it's a short sale, which the selling agent didn't disclose until they had my offer in hand. I'm TRENT SMASH!!!!! angry right now. They owe $170k, but I don't know how many lenders are involved, and I offered $120k expecting a regular negotiation and sale. On the bright side the selling agent claims she has told the home owner to accept the offer, so then I just have to deal with the lender deciding they want more money from me, or someone else makes a higher offer, or they don't want to sell for that low anyway, or they take several months to even process it, or they don't like my financing....

Damn. Wonder how many times they tried to sell it, disclosing the fact that it's a short sell, up front? Although, isn't that info available on MLS? Pretty sure it is. Are you guys using an agent for buying, or going solo?

[malchior]

Damn. Wonder how many times they tried to sell it, disclosing the fact that it's a short sell, up front? Although, isn't that info available on MLS? Pretty sure it is. Are you guys using an agent for buying, or going solo?

Short sale usually ISN'T in the MLS. At least in PA and NJ. On a townhouse/condo the buyer's agent probably would have trouble detecting it too since the price usually isn't too far out of line with the general market.

[Kelric]

Damn. Wonder how many times they tried to sell it, disclosing the fact that it's a short sell, up front? Although, isn't that info available on MLS? Pretty sure it is. Are you guys using an agent for buying, or going solo?

Short sale usually ISN'T in the MLS. At least in PA and NJ. On a townhouse/condo the buyer's agent probably would have trouble detecting it too since the price usually isn't too far out of line with the general market.

It isn't listed on this one. Seems to be hit or miss in MA as to whether it gets posted on the MLS sheet.

Edit - The price is comparable for the area at what it is listed at now, but was priced at $175k 3 months ago, which is an insanely high price. My offer is probably less than they could get for that property, but is reasonably comparable. Just texted my agent to ask for her to find out where in the short sale process this is. If they're still doing paperwork to get it approved as a short sale, then I'm going to walk.... though I may give the selling agent a deadline to get on top of the bank situation and come back with a 'Yes, and here is the documentation to prove it has been given a green light.'

I don't know, right now I'm just super pissed. The fiancee doesn't get why I am and references back to the other short sale I was considering, but everything was done with that one and would have just needed seller/lender approval. I have no idea where this one stands and feel like the listing agent roped me in.

[malchior]

I'm still in limbo on my deal. We sent over a letter basically saying we'll inspect the bar situation during home inspection so lets conclude attorney review. Crickets from the other side. I asked my agent to reach out about possible inspection dates and the listing agent on the other side isn't responding. I'm getting that sinking feeling again.

*Edit: I hate this mandatory attorney review crap as an aside. My co-worker signed a contract in PA and it's done. He can go about working to purchase the property. In contrast, we've had days of waiting for the other side to grace us with two paragraph letters. This is literally hell on earth for my wife right now.

[Kelric]

The person accepted, now the paperwork goes to her lender. My agent is waiting to find out from her counterpart what the status of the paperwork is with the bank. If they come back and say it has been approved as a short sale with the lender and now we just need the lender to agree to sell it to me, fine, I'll roll with it. If the bank still needs paperwork from the seller.....

[Smoove_B]

*Edit: I hate this mandatory attorney review crap as an aside. My co-worker signed a contract in PA and it's done. He can go about working to purchase the property. In contrast, we've had days of waiting for the other side to grace us with two paragraph letters. This is literally hell on earth for my wife right now.

Well, as a counterpoint, my in-laws in PA sold and then purchased a home a few years ago without any type of attorney review and about a week after living in the new house they were contacted by a bank because there was some type of problem with the title...it might have been a lien. Anyway, their homeowners insurance was suddenly null and void and ownership of the new home was potentially in jeopardy until it was sorted out. In their case it turned out to be a minor problem (all administrative and it took a few days and a few hundred dollars to sort out), however it was absolutely something that would have been picked up during attorney review prior to the sale of the home.

[malchior]

Well, as a counterpoint, my in-laws in PA sold and then purchased a home a few years ago without any type of attorney review and about a week after living in the new house they were contacted by a bank because there was some type of problem with the title...it might have been a lien. Anyway, their homeowners insurance was suddenly null and void and ownership of the new home was potentially in jeopardy until it was sorted out. In their case it turned out to be a minor problem (all administrative and it took a few days and a few hundred dollars to sort out), however it was absolutely something that would have been picked up during attorney review prior to the sale of the home.

I don't see how that would get picked up in contract review. That sounds more like a title search/closing agent screw up to me.

Edit: Sorry if that is too curt. I'm a little grumpy. I found out last night that the last house where the seller backed out is under contract and has been since 2 days after she cancelled mine. I called the listing agent and gave her a little grief about her honesty because she flat out lied to me about what happened with our deal--she had a change of heart about selling the house and was taking it off the market. She didn't give me a chance to at least even counter offer and I was willing to go much higher. She was the one who put us in the ballpark we ended up at with a huge price concession at the beginning of negotiations. I had offered to discuss it and maybe my crappy former agent played a part in that but the listing agent told me how the seller felt pressured by my agent to sign but meanwhile she is fielding other offers on the sly. Incredibly tacky. I'm pretty much sick of people right now. I think about how I would treat someone in similar circumstances and these people are like aliens to me right now.

[Smoove_B]

Our attorney handled all of the administrative paper work, including coordinating the title search with the mortgage lender (i.e. making sure it was done). I think our attorney was about a thousand dollars. When you compare that to to the price of the home, it's not that unreasonable. Of all the things I had to pay for, I'd consider the attorney one of the least offensive. I also couldn't imagine entering into a contract of that magnitude without someone with training looking over everything. People hire a lawyer to get them out of a speeding ticket but balk at the idea of using one to buy a house? Madness.

[Exodor]

Well, as a counterpoint, my in-laws in PA sold and then purchased a home a few years ago without any type of attorney review and about a week after living in the new house they were contacted by a bank because there was some type of problem with the title...it might have been a lien. Anyway, their homeowners insurance was suddenly null and void and ownership of the new home was potentially in jeopardy until it was sorted out. In their case it turned out to be a minor problem (all administrative and it took a few days and a few hundred dollars to sort out), however it was absolutely something that would have been picked up during attorney review prior to the sale of the home.

Isn't this the exact scenario that Title Insurance allows you to avoid?

In Oregon you have to get Title Insurance for any transaction. If a lien is suddenly found after-the-fact it's the insurer that's fuct not the buyer.

[Smoove_B]

Yes, I think so, but no, I don't think they had it. All I know is that my in-laws were proud of how much money they saved because they didn't have to pay a fancy big-city lawyerin' type to process the sale of their home. They just signed a bunch of papers and it was theirs....until a few weeks later when it wasn't.

[KKBlue]

I've lined up an attorney already because of wanting to avoid problems. I've been asking around for names all over the place from people who I trust (ex. got the name of a carpenter from our plumber who we got from my sister in law). The attorney is from my brother who used him to close a few years ago. This attorney has returned my calls and responded to Emails with good responce time. Sounds capable and personable enough over the phone and uses proper grammar and punctuation. From being around people professionally, socially and generally over all, it gives me a better feel for what I may be in for continuing the relationship.

My plan is to be better prepared with competent people moving forward with selling and buying. So far, so good. If things speed up, we should be comfortable with the people representing us so we don't fall behind. The goal is not to flaming poop stoop bag anyone and have this change in life be enjoyable. It's more fun to drink celebratory that woe as me drinking for sure (better pictures and memories). I'm asking lots of questions and have absolutely no problem firing someone. Yes, it's much easier to type than do but I'm not willing to act out soap operas. In my old age, I can't handle the drama anymore. Thinking of the last episode of Modern Family, the hospital scene.

[Smoove_B]

It might sound crazy, but you can hire a home inspector now to give your home the once-over and try to anticipate problems another home inspector might find. Since their inspection would be for the current home owner and not used in any type of legal transfer of property, it should be considerably cheaper.

[Zaxxon]

It might sound crazy, but you can hire a home inspector now to give your home the once-over and try to anticipate problems another home inspector might find. Since their inspection would be for the current home owner and not used in any type of legal transfer of property, it should be considerably cheaper.

Just be careful, as anything that's found you would then be required to fix or report. Ignorance can be bliss.

[Kelric]

Got a text from my agent:

Lender is apparently in the process of filing for a short sale. Awaiting signed hard copy docs from seller. I would advise receipt of these prior to scheduling a home inspection. Your thoughts?

My thoughts: Any and all cuss words once said on Deadwood. Most notably, any speech given by Al Swearengen.

I read that text as 'This has been on the market 90 days and the seller has been dragging their ass awaiting an offer before bothering to file for the short sale with the bank.'

[KKBlue]

Naw Smoove, not loco at all. We've been chewing around that idea and just may do that after we get a few things done we know are an issue. Thanks for the advice... think we will set something up with our inspector cause it seems like your comment is the second "sign" to have him take a walk through to keep things moving forward in a positive way.

[Carpet_pissr]

It might sound crazy, but you can hire a home inspector now to give your home the once-over and try to anticipate problems another home inspector might find. Since their inspection would be for the current home owner and not used in any type of legal transfer of property, it should be considerably cheaper.

Just be careful, as anything that's found you would then be required to fix or report. Ignorance can be bliss.

Agree. Not only would doing that add cost for the seller, the buyer is certainly going to want to get their own inspector (can't remember who normally pays for that...buyer or seller?), and the seller's inspector might find something that the buyer's inspector misses. Backfire!

[KKBlue]

We would be using a family friend who has built houses and stuff. The pre inspection for our house for sale would just be having him walk through giving us advice. Most likely he wouldn't take any money so we will give him a gift certificate for a restaurant.

The idea is to have another set of trained eyes look around so we don't have to address something we should of in the first place, that we missed cause of selling prep fatigue.

[Zaxxon]

:) We would be using a family friend who has built houses and stuff. The pre inspection for our house for sale would just be having him walk through giving us advice. Most likely he wouldn't take any money so we will give him a gift certificate for a restaurant.

The idea is to have another set of trained eyes look around so we don't have to address something we should of in the first place, that we missed cause of selling prep fatigue.

That's fine; I was just pointing out that if you are aware of any major issues, you must either remedy them or report them to any potential buyer. In other words by having your own inspection before a sale, you're risking additional cost to yourself for no actual benefit to yourself. Whether it's an official inspection or not doesn't matter--all that counts is that you become aware of a problem. The SOP is to have the buyer run an inspection, then resolve any issues that come up from that inspection.

That said, if getting this done and pre-emptively resolving anything that comes up reduces your stress level, then perhaps it's worth it.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I suppose there's that issue but I personally wouldn't want to be blind-sided by something I missed but a home inspector would pick up on instantly. For the house we purchased they had some plumbing issues they needed to resolve that would have easily been picked up (and corrected) prior to the point where our inspector would have come through. When we sold our townhouse, the home inspector noted that an outlet was wired incorrectly. Not a big deal, but another expense for me to hire an electrician for $100 to come and do $2 worth of work, dragging out the process another week while that was scheduled and the appropriate paperwork forwarded along to both lawyers. Above and beyond actually finding issues to disclose, the home inspector might also point out general areas of concern. For example -- the age of the windows, roof or siding. Yeah, they might all be in great shape, but if they're 15+ years old that's something that will come up and it could be used against you when the buyer starts negotiating their offer. It's definitely a gamble but unless you buried spent nuclear material in your basement, I'd still rather know ahead of time.

[Carpet_pissr]

Question about disclosure:

When we bought out current house, there were some notes on water issues on the disclosure (that mentioned they had been fixed) that we failed to ask about or act on for whatever reason (perhaps the way it was written didn't ring any bells, and we were also first timers).

Turns out the problems were not fixed, and when heavy rains came, the lower part of the house (at/below grade) would end up with water (not flooding exactly, but when you put your foot in the berber carpet, water would come up to the surface.. We eventually found and fixed the problem (and I mean GOOD), and that problem has not happened since our "fixing" several years ago. We have had a number of major rains since then (many of them this past week), that prior to The Fixing, would surely have resulted in water downstairs. So obviously the problem is not a problem anymore, and has not been for years (in fact, since then we removed the carpet down there and replaced with hardwoods).

Should I disclose any of that (as a seller of the house)?
My agent says not necessary, and that many buyers see excessive disclosures as a sign of honesty, and respond positively to that. I'm not sure I buy that exactly.

As a potential buyer also, I don't necessarily care about seeing problems from 10 years ago that were proven to be fixed.

Side note: I just now realized the title thread is "buying your FIRST home" Oops! Sorry...wrong thread!

[malchior]

I pushed a little this morning and my lawyer got a verbal response that we are under contract so I'm scheduling inspections. I'm 50% of the way there now.

[Freezer-TPF-]

The latest installment of random first home happenings: We were upstairs after dinner last night and heard a loud *THUNK* from below. We thought something had fallen down/over (we still have some boxes and random things in various places) but everything seemed fine. Then we thought maybe a neighbor had just slammed a car/house door very loudly. Finally, we walked back into the breakfast area and looked outside at the deck, where a small bird was lying still a few inches from our sliding glass door.

RIP, little kamikaze. Luckily, this morning was trash day.

Now, Smoove can tell me how handling a dead bird can kill me. (I used gloves and plasticware plates to scoop him into a paper grocery bag for disposal inside our main garbage bag. I hate dead things.)

[Isgrimnur]

I wouldn't worry so much about the bird and associated organisms as I would absorbing all those chemicals from the plastics.

[Smoove_B]

Now, Smoove can tell me how handling a dead bird can kill me. (I used gloves and plasticware plates to scoop him into a paper grocery bag for disposal inside our main garbage bag. I hate dead things.)

As long as you didn't come into contact with the bird droppings while handling it, you should be fine.

Also, I am formally requesting a emoticon that rubs a set of hands together like an evil mad scientist.

[Octavious]

My wife is a germ freak. Mental note never let her near Smoove or I'm going to have bubble wrap on all my furniture.

[PLW]

Now, Smoove can tell me how handling a dead bird can kill me. (I used gloves and plasticware plates to scoop him into a paper grocery bag for disposal inside our main garbage bag. I hate dead things.)

As long as you didn't come into contact with the bird droppings while handling it, you should be fine.

Also, I am formally requesting a emoticon that rubs a set of hands together like an evil mad scientist.

[$iljanus]

The latest installment of random first home happenings: We were upstairs after dinner last night and heard a loud *THUNK* from below. We thought something had fallen down/over (we still have some boxes and random things in various places) but everything seemed fine. Then we thought maybe a neighbor had just slammed a car/house door very loudly. Finally, we walked back into the breakfast area and looked outside at the deck, where a small bird was lying still a few inches from our sliding glass door.

RIP, little kamikaze. Luckily, this morning was trash day.

Now, Smoove can tell me how handling a dead bird can kill me. (I used gloves and plasticware plates to scoop him into a paper grocery bag for disposal inside our main garbage bag. I hate dead things.)

So it begins...

[Freezer-TPF-]

I had a few new droppings on my car this morning, and I don't park right under a tree.

Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences.

I've been amazed lately at the ability of the birds around here to hit the sides of my car. That is only a sliver of a target from above. One bird nailed part of my driver door handle a few months ago. I assume he rolled a 20.

[Isgrimnur]

You're not thinking three dimensionally. If you're not parked under a tree, they're making bombing runs at the car. It's a lot easier to hit it broadside at velocity than to try and make a perfect hit from above without a suitable perch.

[Freezer-TPF-]

You're not thinking three dimensionally. If you're not parked under a tree, they're making bombing runs at the car. It's a lot easier to hit it broadside at velocity than to try and make a perfect hit from above without a suitable perch.

My wife's car is parked right next to mine, so that's still a pretty tight shot even for a strafing run.

[malchior]

So tomorrow is the inspection. I am looking forward to it. On another front, things are not going well with the mortgage broker. The application was for all intents and purposes just garbage. It was full of material errors such as having my wife's name wrong, missing assets (which reduced my net worth on the application by 66%) and other idiotic mistakes. I told them about it and then I corrected the errors by hand and faxed it in. They went forward and the same erroneous information made it to my lawyer. One of the errors might have been a big problem had it made it to the other side so I'm glad I caught it. They regenerated the application and it had 95% of the same errors including my wife's name again and the missing assets!. I bitched a fit so they promised up and down that they'll fix them. They said I'll get it back to me in 2 days. In the meantime, we'll still go forward with the appraisal, etc. Painful.

[Kelric]

Turns out the listing agent on my short sale is also running for office, so she has not yet responded to my agent.

Thanks, universe.

[Octavious]

Short sales are famous for taking forever so good luck with that. I think the average time I read one time was 6 months to close.

So tomorrow is the inspection. I am looking forward to it. On another front, things are not going well with the mortgage broker. The application was for all intents and purposes just garbage. It was full of material errors such as having my wife's name wrong, missing assets (which reduced my net worth on the application by 66%) and other idiotic mistakes. I told them about it and then I corrected the errors by hand and faxed it in. They went forward and the same erroneous information made it to my lawyer. One of the errors might have been a big problem had it made it to the other side so I'm glad I caught it. They regenerated the application and it had 95% of the same errors including my wife's name again and the missing assets!. I bitched a fit so they promised up and down that they'll fix them. They said I'll get it back to me in 2 days. In the meantime, we'll still go forward with the appraisal, etc. Painful.

Good luck we're all counting on you. Does the house have a septic system or is in sewer? I think like 90% of the houses in my town failed the septic inspections. They had to totally replace mine when we bought the house. Which I obviously didn't have to pay for.

[malchior]

Good luck we're all counting on you. Does the house have a septic system or is in sewer? I think like 90% of the houses in my town failed the septic inspections. They had to totally replace mine when we bought the house. Which I obviously didn't have to pay for.

Public sewer/water which is nice. They are actually re-doing the sewer lines in the neighborhood right now to increase capacity. The only wild card for this inspection is likely the roof and the finished basement and of course the infamous bar area. The basement had water during Irene but apparently everyone did because every house we visited disclosed basement water during Irene. A battery-backup sump pump will be an early purchase.