Kiva [Microlending to the less fortunate]

[Drazzil]

I still think this is a terrible scam. Everyone's eating but the lender, who takes ALL the risk. F that.

[Chrisoc13]

I still think this is a terrible scam. Everyone's eating but the lender, who takes ALL the risk. F that.

It's charity, not a monetary investment. Micro loans have proven to work and are excellent.

[em2nought]

I still think this is a terrible scam. Everyone's eating but the lender, who takes ALL the risk. F that.

Seems to work exactly like my trucking business then. Even the accountant made more off of my business than I did this year.

[Drazzil]

I still think this is a terrible scam. Everyone's eating but the lender, who takes ALL the risk. F that.

It's charity, not a monetary investment. Micro loans have proven to work and are excellent.

If its a charity where's the tax write off? Where's the deduction line item for losses?

[Drazzil]

Repayments make Kiva loans not tax-deductible in the United States.

Bah! Humbug!

[Zaxxon]

Ah, yes. The 'it's only good if I get a benefit, too' theory.

[Drazzil]

Ah, yes. The 'it's only good if I get a benefit, too' theory.

Everyone down the chain gets fed but. rhe lender. Total freaking scam in my book. I would understand if it were tax deductable, but its not! Thus the bah and the humbug.

YMMV. But also there have been economic studies done that show that the net gain to impoverished lendees is almost zero, so theres that. If you want to fund a poor person for zero repayment and probable default just make your checks out to Drazzil. Thats Drazzil with two z's.

* Note, please dont do this. I am doing very well, thank you very much.

[Moat_Man]

Ah, yes. The 'it's only good if I get a benefit, too' theory.

Everyone down the chain gets fed but. rhe lender. Total freaking scam in my book. I would understand if it were tax deductable, but its not! Thus the bah and the humbug.

Since when was charity required to be tax deductable? Do you ask for a receipt anytime you put money in a donation can? Being a Kiva contributor isn't something anyone does for profit. Bah humbug indeed.

[Drazzil]

Ah, yes. The 'it's only good if I get a benefit, too' theory.

Everyone down the chain gets fed but. rhe lender. Total freaking scam in my book. I would understand if it were tax deductable, but its not! Thus the bah and the humbug.

Since when was charity required to be tax deductable? Do you ask for a receipt anytime you put money in a donation can? Being a Kiva contributor isn't something anyone does for profit. Bah humbug indeed.

YMMV. I make all my charitable donations to AA. AA is an extremely lean organization with zero administrative costs and does far more good then Kiva. BAH! HUMBUG!!

[stessier]

Under the new tax plan, it is exceedingly unlikey that claiming those deductions will be worthwhile.

Just to put numbers on your musings...Kiva's current payback rate is 91.7%. AA's estimated success rate is 5-10%.

[Isgrimnur]

The ‘Anonymous’ part makes it really hard to get accurate information.

[pr0ner]

Ah, yes. The 'it's only good if I get a benefit, too' theory.

Everyone down the chain gets fed but. rhe lender. Total freaking scam in my book. I would understand if it were tax deductable, but its not! Thus the bah and the humbug.

Since when was charity required to be tax deductable? Do you ask for a receipt anytime you put money in a donation can? Being a Kiva contributor isn't something anyone does for profit. Bah humbug indeed.

YMMV. I make all my charitable donations to AA. AA is an extremely lean organization with zero administrative costs and does far more good then Kiva. BAH! HUMBUG!!

Do you have enough deductions to itemize your tax return to see the tax advantages of your donations? Especially while unemployed? I doubt it, so why do your care if Kiva loans are tax deductible or not?

[Chrisoc13]

Ah, yes. The 'it's only good if I get a benefit, too' theory.

Everyone down the chain gets fed but. rhe lender. Total freaking scam in my book. I would understand if it were tax deductable, but its not! Thus the bah and the humbug.

YMMV. But also there have been economic studies done that show that the net gain to impoverished lendees is almost zero, so theres that. If you want to fund a poor person for zero repayment and probable default just make your checks out to Drazzil. Thats Drazzil with two z's.

* Note, please dont do this. I am doing very well, thank you very much.

It's not a business opportunity or an investment. It's an opportunity to lend a hand to less fortunate people or people that could use a hand. Most of mine have to been impoverished women. I'm clearly in the one percent of the world (most of us in the United States are) Who cares if everyone but you benefits? I have been blessed, if every penny I put into kiva is not repaid so be it. If I can't write it off on my taxes so be it. That's not the point. There are lots of good things people can do for others without benefit coming to yourself. If you're trying to benefit from it then you're doing it wrong. I'm just happy if my loan gets repaid so I can re-lend it.

[Drazzil]

I don't. I. just love to argue. I have an addiction to chaos thats harder to kick then booze or pot.

[pr0ner]

Oh, look, he finally admitted the source of all his dystopian fantasies.

[Drazzil]

Ah, yes. The 'it's only good if I get a benefit, too' theory.

Everyone down the chain gets fed but. rhe lender. Total freaking scam in my book. I would understand if it were tax deductable, but its not! Thus the bah and the humbug.

YMMV. But also there have been economic studies done that show that the net gain to impoverished lendees is almost zero, so theres that. If you want to fund a poor person for zero repayment and probable default just make your checks out to Drazzil. Thats Drazzil with two z's.

* Note, please dont do this. I am doing very well, thank you very much.

It's not a business opportunity or an investment. It's an opportunity to lend a hand to less fortunate people or people that could use a hand. Most of mine have to been impoverished women. I'm clearly in the one percent of the world (most of us in the United States are) Who cares if everyone but you benefits? I have been blessed, if every penny I put into kiva is not repaid so be it. If I can't write it off on my taxes so be it. That's not the point. There are lots of good things people can do for others without benefit coming to yourself. If you're trying to benefit from it then you're doing it wrong. I'm just happy if my loan gets repaid so I can re-lend it.

Respect!!

[gilraen]

Most of mine have to been impoverished women. I'm clearly in the one percent of the world (most of us in the United States are) Who cares if everyone but you benefits? I have been blessed, if every penny I put into kiva is not repaid so be it. If I can't write it off on my taxes so be it. That's not the point. There are lots of good things people can do for others without benefit coming to yourself. If you're trying to benefit from it then you're doing it wrong. I'm just happy if my loan gets repaid so I can re-lend it.

Pretty much same. Only a couple of my loans have defaulted, Kiva shows delinquency rate on my loans to be 0.23%.
I almost always lend to women, with very few exceptions; almost always to specific regions (Central Asia, Africa, some parts of Latin America). It's not all about someone trying to run a business, like a store or a farm (although there are quite a few of those). It may be someone who has no toilet in their house - not even an outdoor one, and they want to borrow a few hundred dollars to build one so their family stops getting sick all the time. What is the "net gain", as you put it, on this project? In my book, it's about as worthwhile as it gets.

[Drazzil]

Most of mine have to been impoverished women. I'm clearly in the one percent of the world (most of us in the United States are) Who cares if everyone but you benefits? I have been blessed, if every penny I put into kiva is not repaid so be it. If I can't write it off on my taxes so be it. That's not the point. There are lots of good things people can do for others without benefit coming to yourself. If you're trying to benefit from it then you're doing it wrong. I'm just happy if my loan gets repaid so I can re-lend it.

Pretty much same. Only a couple of my loans have defaulted, Kiva shows delinquency rate on my loans to be 0.23%.
I almost always lend to women, with very few exceptions; almost always to specific regions (Central Asia, Africa, some parts of Latin America). It's not all about someone trying to run a business, like a store or a farm (although there are quite a few of those). It may be someone who has no toilet in their house - not even an outdoor one, and they want to borrow a few hundred dollars to build one so their family stops getting sick all the time. What is the "net gain", as you put it, on this project? In my book, it's about as worthwhile as it gets.

I would find very little net gain in supporting people with no infrastructure to support them. They grow up and have little job prospects. It sucks because they often live next to extremely sensitive ecological spots. I would feel much guilt about throwing gasoline on the fire.

[stessier]

Be thankful Isgrimnur doesn't have the same belief.

[Drazzil]

Be thankful Isgrimnur doesn't have the same belief.

I thank god for Isgrimnur.

[Moat_Man]

Ah, yes. The 'it's only good if I get a benefit, too' theory.

Everyone down the chain gets fed but. rhe lender. Total freaking scam in my book. I would understand if it were tax deductable, but its not! Thus the bah and the humbug.

YMMV. But also there have been economic studies done that show that the net gain to impoverished lendees is almost zero, so theres that. If you want to fund a poor person for zero repayment and probable default just make your checks out to Drazzil. Thats Drazzil with two z's.

* Note, please dont do this. I am doing very well, thank you very much.

It's not a business opportunity or an investment. It's an opportunity to lend a hand to less fortunate people or people that could use a hand. Most of mine have to been impoverished women. I'm clearly in the one percent of the world (most of us in the United States are) Who cares if everyone but you benefits? I have been blessed, if every penny I put into kiva is not repaid so be it. If I can't write it off on my taxes so be it. That's not the point. There are lots of good things people can do for others without benefit coming to yourself. If you're trying to benefit from it then you're doing it wrong. I'm just happy if my loan gets repaid so I can re-lend it.

This sums up nicely how I feel and how/why I use Kiva. Thanks Chrisoc13. I had a momentary blip of anger at Draz but thought of how Luke Skywalker had the same thing with Kylo Ren and look how that turned out. I ended up not responding.

[em2nought]

So as part of Kiva do you get any kind of an update on what was done with the money you've loaned? Such as a photograph of a freshly dug latrine for example, or maybe a photo of a bunch on new baby chicks depending on the loan you make?

[Zaxxon]

Sometimes.

[Zaxxon]

2 loans away from 500 for our team. Who wants to be the hero?

[Kraken]

I can't do it right now, but I'd like to join in a couple of months (if my new editing gig pans out). Right now I'm leaning more toward the end of needing a loan than making one.

[Moat_Man]

499...

[hitbyambulance]

this is a reminder to Kraken to join the OO team

also, Kiva and PayPal have a (soon to expire) promotion where if you make one $25 donation, make another $25 donation (straight out of PayPal's money bin) free. lasts for one more day, approximately:

http://lend.kiva.org/paypal/smallloansbigimpact/

[Kraken]

Done! Thanks for the reminder.

[Zaxxon]

Approved!

[em2nought]

Interesting story
https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/man-tra ... 30-camera/

video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_yEnZlZFnM

[Zaxxon]

2 loans away from 500 for our team. Who wants to be the hero?

We're up to 553 loans, for a total of $16,200 funded. Can we hit 600 this year?

Any new blood want to join us?

[hitbyambulance]

if you make a loan this week, PepsiCo will allocate its money to let you make a bonus loan (free to you).

i've made some 'bad' investments. the average Kiva donator (according to the site stats) loses $6.96 due to currency loss or default. i've lost $26.37. most of that was due to this guy right here:



what was interesting was there was an update three months after i was informed that the loan had defaulted and the money forfeit:

Agradece el crédito Antonio ya que este fue destinado para invertir en la compra de artesanía y así mismo poder venderlas , ya que este es el medio que le genera los ingresos fundamentales para solventar las necesidades del hogar, labor que ha desempeñado desde mucho tiempo y esta ha sido la fuente primordial para su familia, el préstamo le cambio la vida ya que esta oportunidad le permitió abastecer su negocio con mucha mas mercadería para así mismo de esta manera poder tener mejores ganancias, su vida anteriormente a la oportunidad del crédito estaba un poco limitada, ya que no se encontraba con suficiente mercadería en su negocio y esta situación le limitaba sus ingresos anteriormente sus ingresos han sido mínimos, ya que no contaba con la suficiente mercadería para abastecer su negocio y que este le genere como resultado buenas ganancias, su vida anteriormente del crédito se encontraba un poco limitada y así mismo esta situación le resultaba incomodaba ya que las necesidades del hogar se presentan día a día, su mayor sueño a futuro son el poder tener una mejor calidad de vida.

"the loan changed his life since this opportunity allowed him to supply his business with much more merchandise so that he could have better profits" ... maybe he got the money but the 180 day repayment deadline was already enforced? not sure what happened there.

[Drazzil]

*snickers*

I'm everyone's kiva project now.

I already post regular updates. Job interview tomorrow.

[Zaxxon]

Who wants to make our 600th team loan?

[hitbyambulance]

another default for me:

Hi there!

We're writing to let you know that your Kiva loan to Wild Gum, facilitated by Pomona Impact, has ended in default, for the following reason:

El cliente tenía un plan de crecimiento definido, sin embargo cuando en EE.UU. se presentaron los cierres por la pandemia COVID-19, las ventas se vieron gravemente afectadas. La combinación de baja en las ventas con no tener la liquidez suficiente, obligó a la empresa a declararse en quiebra. .

With Kiva loans it's common to work to accommodate repayment when loans fall behind schedule, however sometimes, despite efforts to be flexible, loans do end in default. Kiva loans are defaulted at the point in time where it’s deemed that future repayment is unlikely, or when the loan is more than 180 days past due.

To date, $8.26 has been repaid to you, and the remainder of your loan can be considered a loss.

Thank you for your support of this loan, and other borrowers on Kiva.

Best wishes,
The Kiva Team

it's the indifferent tone of the email that bothers me. "Hey, you lost the rest of your money! Well... that's how it goes! kthx bye!"

i expect this to happen more frequently now, but that makes $40.20 in total for me - am i the only one experiencing this?

[Zaxxon]

My loans page says I've lost $118.96 out of $5,125, a 2.3% default rate by $.

As for that specific default of yours, COVID-19 closures causing a bankruptcy seems like a valid excuse. Sucks, but we're bound to see a lot of that now.

[Moat_Man]

My loans page says I've lost $118.96 out of $5,125, a 2.3% default rate by $.

As for that specific default of yours, COVID-19 closures causing a bankruptcy seems like a valid excuse. Sucks, but we're bound to see a lot of that now.

I noticed an uptick in the defaults recently. Makes sense considering. In total I've made 67 loans. I've lost $77.13 with $1,800 total lent. My default rate is 3.92% and my currency loss is 1.02%.

I've paused lending right now as I'm not sure it makes sense in this environment. I have a feeling the default rate is going to continue to climb as out of 17 total loans outstanding I have 8 loans that are paying back delinquent. I might just cash out and call it a day. It's charity so I knew going in I'd lose something along the way helping people but I've tired a bit of the defaults. I still feel cheated somehow when I don't get paid back, even though it's really just a donation that you sometimes get back.

[hitbyambulance]

while i was pondering all this, i saw i had $75 sitting idle... so i reloaned all that out, and just dumped in another $50

[hitbyambulance]

another default - lost $16.74 on this one

The loan from Kiva to Organic Gum, LLC was defaulted due to end of operations and the ultimate dissolution of Organic Gum, LLC.

This happened in June, 2020 after several months of reduced operations. Two key conditions contributed to failure of Organic Gum, LLC.

1) Lack of retail opportunity – as the global pandemic began to shut down the economy in February/March of 2020, the uncertainty surrounding retailers led to very little support for new or emerging products from small and independent companies. The limited R&D and co-manufacturing business also evaporated. Even prior to that, there had been difficulty securing shelf space in any retailers beyond small niche stores.

2) Financial structure - no funding or revenue for Organic Gum, LLC was used for payroll; all participants were foregoing compensation so that cash could be used to fund operations. Over the past few years, this had led to several participants abandoning any operational responsibilities.

Given the lack of opportunity (and subsequent revenue) detailed in point #1, the single remaining operational participant was unable to continue. With no one left to run the company and bleak prospects, Organic Gum, LLC was dissolved.

[Zaxxon]

Who wants to make our 700th loan?