The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

[Moliere]

George R.R. Martin Gives Updates on The Winds of Winter and Picks His Favorite Warriors

Just in case you thought ASOIAF was already pretty dark, Martin is here to remind you that things can always get worse:

But there are a lot of dark chapters right now in the book that I’m writing. It is called The Winds of Winter, and I’ve been telling you for 20 years that winter was coming. Winter is the time when things die, and cold and ice and darkness fills the world, so this is not gonna be the happy feel-good that people may be hoping for. Some of the characters [are] in very dark places…In any story, the classic structure is, ‘Things get worse before they get better,’ so things are getting worse for a lot of people.

[Smoove_B]

According to the man himself, "'I think this year'":

“Not done yet, but I’ve made progress,” Martin wrote. “But not as much as I hoped a year ago when I thought to be done by now. I think it will be out this year. (But hey, I thought the same thing last year.)”

So in other words:

“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.”

[Jaymann]

It will be interesting to see which comes out first, The Winds of Winter or The Doors of Stone (book 3 of The Kingkiller Chronicle). Kind of like Prey vs. Duke Nukem Forever.

[pr0ner]

It's not close.

That's not at all what he's saying. He's saying it's really close, but just not close enough that it'll be out before the next season of Game of Thrones. He thought he would be done with the book by October last year, then thought that at least getting it done by the end of 2015 was guaranteed. He failed to take into account that his inspiration reacts negatively to deadlines.

He's not saying "it's not close." He's saying it's months away. Not years. It's so close that just a few months ago (less than half a year, in fact), he felt confident that he'd be done right this moment. That's close. That's really F-ing close, even if it's not as close as we'd hoped.

Clearly, TiLT misinterpreted GRRM's ability to get anything done.

Thankfully, people who used to work with Martin, like Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck, have learned that how Martin writes is bad for business and doesn't work for most people and can therefore actually write and publish books.

[Scuzz]

It will be interesting to see which comes out first, The Winds of Winter or The Doors of Stone (book 3 of The Kingkiller Chronicle). Kind of like Prey vs. Duke Nukem Forever.

You think the people who are talking about doing the Kingkiller Chronicles are thinking about this? If not, they are fooling themselves.

[DD*]

Interesting (but not hopeful) article on the next(?) book...

[pr0ner]

Interesting (but not hopeful) article on the next(?) book...

I know I already said it once in this thread, but it says a lot that Abraham and Franck, the guys behind the James S. A. Corey pseudonym, both worked with Martin, to the point where they use his POV style for their The Expanse novels, yet managed to not get bogged down in their universe building like Martin did. They've put out 6 books and 5 novellas/short stories in the time just prior to and since ADWD came out.

Oy.

[Madmarcus]

I have a hard time getting worked up over GRRM's writing pace. I certainly want him to finish but I can also sympathize with a desire to retire. Abraham and Franck haven't haven't, I would guess, hit the Enough stage of wealth yet. GRRM almost certainly has.

[Moliere]

George's blog post on Jul. 22nd, 2017

And, yes, I know you all want to know about THE WINDS OF WINTER too. I've seen some truly weird reports about WOW on the internet of late, by 'journalists' who make their stories up out of whole cloth. I don't know which story is more absurd, the one that says the book is finished and I've been sitting on it for some nefarious reason, or the one that says I have no pages. Both 'reports' are equally false and equally moronic. I am still working on it, I am still months away (how many? good question), I still have good days and bad days, and that's all I care to say. Whether WINDS or the first volume of FIRE AND BLOOD will be the first to hit the bookstores is hard to say at this juncture, but I do think you will have a Westeros book from me in 2018... and who knows, maybe two. A boy can dream...

[stessier]

It's sad. I liked the first three and then stopped until he completed the series. I have no interest in watching GoT on HBO - I want the books! There's no way he finishes the story in his lifetime.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

It's sad. I liked the first three and then stopped until he completed the series. I have no interest in watching GoT on HBO - I want the books! There's no way he finishes the story in his lifetime.

You might as well start watching the show if you want to ever see at least some version of the story finished. And, honestly, the last few seasons of the show have been better than the last few books anyway.

[pr0ner]

It's interesting going back in this thread to the beginning of 2016 and seeing the arguments from TiLT saying the book is close and others saying it's not close at all.

Now it's looking like 2018 at the earliest.

It definitely wasn't close at the beginning of 2016. I don't think the book is close now. I will be disappointed if I never get to read it, but I'm starting to think that it's a distinct possibility.

[Zarathud]

I'm sure it is close in that GRRM has written a lot, but he is editing and rewriting.

[Archinerd]

I'm now to the point where I no longer care if he ever finishes it or not. I've given up on it.

[pr0ner]

I'm sure it is close in that GRRM has written a lot, but he is editing and rewriting.

Honestly, I doubt it's even finished. Because he spends too much time editing and rewriting.

[McNutt]

And, honestly, the last few seasons of the show have been better than the last few books anyway.

Much, much better. Books 4 and 5 were a chore to finish.

[morlac]

And, honestly, the last few seasons of the show have been better than the last few books anyway.

Much, much better. Books 4 and 5 were a chore to finish.

So much this! They were crap with some shining moments. I could care less if he finishes it now. In fact, I would prefer he not and just concentrate on other stories in the Universe and/or just retire and hand the reigns off. It's obvious that is what he would rather be doing and his writing in the last couple seemed to reflect this.

[Carpet_pissr]

I disagree. Enjoyed them both immensely. I know I'm the minority voice on that from other GRRM readers though.

[Zaxxon]

I disagree. Enjoyed them both immensely. I know I'm the minority voice on that from other GRRM readers though.

I'll join your club! Do you supply cookies?

[morlac]

I disagree. Enjoyed them both immensely. I know I'm the minority voice on that from other GRRM readers though.

Crap is probably harsh but when held in comparison to the others....crap . I still enjoyed them and they certainly had some great moments but if the first ones were written like that I never would have read the rest.

[stessier]

I think I would judge the books differently based on where the story ends up. When reading Wheel of Time, I had real trouble with 8-10 as they came out, but in reading through the whole series over the course of 3 months, they fit in perfectly and I really enjoyed them. I could see the same thing happening here. And so I wait...with very little hope.

[El Guapo]

I think I would judge the books differently based on where the story ends up. When reading Wheel of Time, I had real trouble with 8-10 as they came out, but in reading through the whole series over the course of 3 months, they fit in perfectly and I really enjoyed them. I could see the same thing happening here. And so I wait...with very little hope.

Just watch the show already.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's sad. I liked the first three and then stopped until he completed the series. I have no interest in watching GoT on HBO - I want the books! There's no way he finishes the story in his lifetime.

I was the same way but aDwD really put me off. I was as die hard as they came, waiting breathlessly between books but I'm really indifferent now. Not interested in the show or tWoW.

I will watch the show eventually, I'm sure it's good, but I don't feel any urgency.

[Nightwish]

And, honestly, the last few seasons of the show have been better than the last few books anyway.

Much, much better. Books 4 and 5 were a chore to finish.

They sure needed some serious cuts. The viewpoint technique is cute, but it just got in the way too much.
On the other hand, the show has deus ex machina time, super-smart characters doing really dumb shit, characters who are supposed to have changed still acting both ways arbitrarily, the Dorne abomination, fleets being built in a month, serious wounds that heal in a day... It's been getting lazier and lazier without something to ground the story.

[Isgrimnur]

RIP Roy Dotrice

British actor Roy Dotrice has died at the age of 94.

Dotrice was known to Game of Thrones fans for his brief role as Wisdom Hallyne the pyromancer in season 2. But more impressively, he also read the audiobooks for George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire, and holds the Guinness World Record for the most characters voiced by a single actor in an audiobook — 223 in the saga’s first novel, A Game of Thrones, the audiobook for which is 33 hours long.

The actor served in the Royal Air Force during WWII, was imprisoned in a German POW camp, and then went on to have a long career in radio, theater, television, and film — including playing Leopold Mozart in the film Amadeus. He also won a Tony in 2000 for a revival of A Moon for the Misbegotten.

[McNutt]

I would dereference how they did the audio books. There were so many characters that I didn't know if it could be done well by one person.

[Smoove_B]

Not happening in 2018, according to the man himself.

This latest round of depressing information began when a fan asked what writing Martin had planned for 2018. He responded that he was close to completing the first volume of his spin-off Targaryen family history series, Fire and Blood. Another fan asked how the timeline for that series would factor into the release of Winds of Winter.

"F&B will be in two volumes,” he wrote, further explaining that, “Vol 1 [will come before Winds of Winter], vol 2 after."

In other words, Martin is currently focused on finishing Volume 1 of Fire and Blood in 2018, so he can then go back to Winds of Winter, then continue on to Volume 2 after that's done. (Probably in sometime in the year 2049.)

[Holman]

It's like when Tolkien wrote Frodo and Sam up to the gates of Mordor and then paused to spend a decade on his multi-volume collection of Tom Bombadil rhymes and recipes.

[Scuzz]

For the umpteenth time, GRRM will never finish the series. Never.

[pr0ner]

Not happening in 2018, according to the man himself.

This latest round of depressing information began when a fan asked what writing Martin had planned for 2018. He responded that he was close to completing the first volume of his spin-off Targaryen family history series, Fire and Blood. Another fan asked how the timeline for that series would factor into the release of Winds of Winter.

"F&B will be in two volumes,” he wrote, further explaining that, “Vol 1 [will come before Winds of Winter], vol 2 after."

In other words, Martin is currently focused on finishing Volume 1 of Fire and Blood in 2018, so he can then go back to Winds of Winter, then continue on to Volume 2 after that's done. (Probably in sometime in the year 2049.)

I still get a kick out of TiLT claiming back in January of 2016 that GRRM was saying that the book was really close to being finished. It's going to be at least THREE years from that date before Martin is done.

[Zaxxon]

I think we need to start a pool: what comes first--GRRM finishing book 7 or Musk founding a Mars colony.

[pr0ner]

I think we need to start a pool: what comes first--GRRM finishing book 7 or Musk founding a Mars colony.

You could start a pool as to what comes out first out of GRRM finishing book 6 and the last season of the TV show airing on HBO. There *might* be a little drama in that one.

[Smoove_B]

I'm pretty confident the HBO Game of Thrones spin-off series will be aired before he finishes this book. I maintain he's going to wait until HBO finishes their version and then he'll gauge fan response. If fans liked it, he'll finish it with their ending. If they didn't, he'll market the written story as the "true" ending he always wanted but they didn't give.

[El Guapo]

I don't think we should rule out the publisher cobbling together whatever has and publishing it after GRRM dies.

Also, what are the odds of the planned book 7 ever happening? 1%?

[Archinerd]

It's like when Tolkien wrote Frodo and Sam up to the gates of Mordor and then paused to spend a decade on his multi-volume collection of Tom Bombadil rhymes and recipes.

He's currently a consultant on the Hulu show based off the series and I heard a rumor he's helping with rewrites for the graphic novel version. There's some conflicting info on that second one though, it might actually be a graphic novel for dwarven drinking and adventure songs.

[Jeff V]

Well, after season 7, there should be enough disgruntled feedback to indicate they aren't on a good path, regardless of the ratings.

[Zaxxon]

Also, what are the odds of the planned book 7 ever happening? 1%?

I'm not actually kidding about the Mars bet. I think there's a ~50% chance that happens first. I saw on GRRM's recent comments that he referenced he's still looking at a 7-book series 'he hopes,' implying there's a non-zero chance it goes to eight.

We're already at 8 years (realistically--mid-2019) between books 5 and 6. Assuming some improvement for book 7 back to about the time it took between books 3 to 4 (5 years) and 4 to 5 (6 years), that'd be around early 2025.

That's basically the current best-case scenario if you don't assume he's going to suddenly write book 7 in two years.

2025! 30 years to write 7 books.

[Archinerd]

2025! 30 years to write 7 books.

Still more books than I've written.
I'd prefer he just admit he's not going to do them though and move on. Get someone else to finish them and act as a consultant while he's still around.

[Zaxxon]

2025! 30 years to write 7 books.

Still more books than I've written.
I'd prefer he just admit he's not going to do them though and move on. Get someone else to finish them and act as a consultant while he's still around.

True dat. I don't mean to throw stones (even though I'm throwing stones, I guess). It's more that he clearly was more focused initially, when he got the first 3 books *all* out in less time than *any* of the past three. At a certain point I find myself wondering whether it's possible to figure out the road blocks if they haven't been figured out in the first half-decade of a book's development.

Especially when the writer is also tackling a score of other serious ventures.

[Archinerd]

I suspect he has no real incentive to finish them.
He (presumably) knows how the story ends, doesn't need the money at this point, and is unlikely to live up to fan expectations. Much more exciting to work on other things.