The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:45 pm

Exodor wrote:I'm reading through the Book 4 thread and just came across this little gem

Zaxxon wrote:Current plan is 7 books.

5 - A Dance With Dragons - Feb (?) 2007
6 - The Winds of Winter - 2010 (?)
7 - A Dream of Spring - When the Cows Come Home

<-- Winnar.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:33 am

stessier wrote:I started The Wheel of Time in 1995. Based on that experieince, after book 2 of Game of Thrones, even though I loved it, I decided to wait until the series was done to read any more. I hope I live a long, long time.

That's not a bad plan. Particularly since Books 4 and 5 are underwhelming compared to the first three.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:26 am

I didn't want to start a new thread and cause problems for those waiting, so I figured a [NotDoneYet] tagged discussion would cause the least amount of problems. And with that:

George R.R. Martin Inks Deal with HBO To Develop New Projects

I'm sure he'll have tons and tons of time now to finish A Song of Ice and Fire, with all that money he can roll around in for not writing more books.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:35 am

Smoove_B wrote:I didn't want to start a new thread and cause problems for those waiting, so I figured a [NotDoneYet] tagged discussion would cause the least amount of problems. And with that:

George R.R. Martin Inks Deal with HBO To Develop New Projects

I'm sure he'll have tons and tons of time now to finish A Song of Ice and Fire, with all that money he can roll around in for not writing more books.

That was a great article. It's heartening to see that middle-schoolers have found a home on the web.

In any case, I have nothing more to say. Martin will finish the books. Or he won't. It has nothing to do with money (he has plenty, and any lack thereof or prospect for more isn't going to inspire him to work any faster, particularly if all the other reasons he has to finish the books aren't sufficient) and probably doesn't have much to do with his other projects (he already has plenty of those as well). I do have to admit that I'm sorely tempted - moreso with each passing year - to shelve this series and just let it gather dust until such time as Martin (or his duly-authorized agent) completes the whole series, as I did with A Wheel of Time. I've found that I have a hard time enjoying books in the middle of a series when they don't really tell any sort of complete story.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:15 pm

I'm excited because it all but guarantees that seasons 4 and 5 of GoT will happen (not that that's a big surprise). I'm not as excited about piling even more crap on GRRM's plate that are not the last two books of ASoIaF. I tend to concur with Odin that the general speed with which GRRM will finish is what it is, and that he's got sufficient other crap going on that one more thing isn't going to make a huge difference. But it's still nerve-wracking.

I've also taken your approach to incomplete series, Odin. Except for this one--I know I'll get book 6 when it hits. I'm enjoying heading through all of WoT now, though. Halfway through book 2 and it's comforting knowing that all the rest are waiting for me.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:32 pm

Zaxxon wrote:I've also taken your approach to incomplete series, Odin. Except for this one--I know I'll get book 6 when it hits. I'm enjoying heading through all of WoT now, though. Halfway through book 2 and it's comforting knowing that all the rest are waiting for me.

I was really shocked at what a huge difference it made in WoT for me. Back when I originally read book 7, I think I believed at the time that the series would probably end around book 9 (based, presumably, on early guesses by Jordan as to how long the series would be. Clearly he had no idea - even the notes he left for his successor indicated that the three Brandon Sanderson books were to be a single volume entitled A Memory of Light), so it was intensely frustrating to get yet another book where "nothing much happened" and not be any closer to the endgame. I actually HATED book 7 the first time I read it. But once I had the full series in my hands and knew that book 7 was dead-center in the middle of the series, I had no problem whatsoever with the various machinations and tangled skein of plotlines addressed in that book and the ones that came after.

I'm hoping I might feel similarly about A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons during a re-read at some point in the future after the series is complete. I kind of doubt it, because I find both works to be fundamentally flawed (AFfC moreso than ADwD), particularly by way of comparison to the first three novels. But I know for sure that waiting for years to read another little snippet of the overall story really pisses me right off.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:58 pm

I imagine I will tolerate the middle books better than I did the first time.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:40 pm

Smoove_B wrote:He's going to cock it up. Mark my words -- one way or another this will end badly.

Just now seeing this thread...and realize your comment is pretty stale, but I have to agree here, just based on that quote. There is NO WAY IN HELL he is going to finish. It could be me, but the unstated message from his quote is "yeah, probably not going to finish those...would be nice, but damn, that would take a LOT of effort! And so much shiny on my plate!"

It almost seems as if he is tired of working on the completion of the story/writing, and these new threads (like a history of Westeros book, a book of illustrations (I will so buy that), a freakin' cookbook!) keep popping up which seem more fun for him than writing. Those projects seem awesome to me, as a fan, but it saddens me to see that he doesn't seem too concerned about the fate of the reason that those threads and opportunities exist.

And to whoever made the comment about his editor needing to light a fire under his ass, I suspect he will get a lot more pressure from HBO than he will from any editor. Apparently the dude could use a time management expert. Hell, hire David Allen or someone like him as a PA or something...I am sure Martin is absolutely swimming in cash, even if he has a chronic hookers and blow habit.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:26 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:And to whoever made the comment about his editor needing to light a fire under his ass, I suspect he will get a lot more pressure from HBO than he will from any editor. Apparently the dude could use a time management expert. Hell, hire David Allen or someone like him as a PA or something...I am sure Martin is absolutely swimming in cash, even if he has a chronic hookers and blow habit.

The thing about writing is that not all writers can produce quality creative content on a tight timetable. Some can, others can't. I don't know what sort Martin is, but it's not guaranteed that more organization, more time, more discipline, more money, more pressure etc. will necessarily produce a quicker or better product.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:58 pm

Odin wrote: The thing about writing is that not all writers can produce quality creative content on a tight timetable. Some can, others can't. I don't know what sort Martin is, but it's not guaranteed that more organization, more time, more discipline, more money, more pressure etc. will necessarily produce a quicker or better product.

Good point. Creative juices flow at different speeds for different people. Apparently they just seep for Mr. Martin.

I would bet a lot of money he is a chronic procrastinator (takes one to know one).

Default · Post by **Default** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:16 pm

Can't we just bring in a few stunt writers, give each a character and have them blow out a couple of books in six months? Then GRRM can collate the chapters and take credit for the next six books? That would give him plenty of time to eat cheeseburgers and loll on stacks of hundred dollar bills.

silverjon · Post by **silverjon** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:17 pm

Default wrote:Can't we just bring in a few stunt writers, give each a character and have them blow out a couple of books in six months? Then GRRM can collate the chapters and take credit for the next six books? That would give him plenty of time to eat cheeseburgers and loll on stacks of hundred dollar bills.

Works for James Patterson.

The "Erin Hunter" model could also work.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:43 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:I would bet a lot of money he is a chronic procrastinator (takes one to know one).

I actually suspect he is not. Given the number of side-projects he works on in a given year, he's actually fairly prolific. He usually writes/edits what seems like a yearly anthology with Gardner Dozois, he seems to turn out a new Wild Cards book every year or two, he writes an episode of Game of Thrones every season, he goes on book tours and attends conventions all over the world, etc., etc. I think if he were truly a procrastinator, he'd get a lot less accomplished.

I'm willing to accept that his issues with the mereenese knot (sp?) really did bedevil him with ADwD because I've been struggling with something similar for the last couple years. Granted, I definitely AM a classic procrastinator, so it's not a direct comparison, but I can definitely appreciate how sometimes you have a spot where you can't find a solution that makes sense within the scope of the characters and the nature of the story.

Now, if it takes him another six years to finish TWoW, I'll be a lot less accepting and more inclined to call sloth on him.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:49 am

I don't ever remember reading this before, so I thought it was worth sharing. From the way this article was written, it sounds like maybe he only ever wanted to write this story as a trilogy and that his editor has been prodding him to keep expanding it. That certainly makes more sense as to why it's not happening any time soon. The idea that he's being pushed for an 8th book (or that it's being hinted here) is downright hilarious. Regarding the book referenced in this thread title:

In an online Q&A on May 29, 2014 Martin's editor Anne Groell responded to the anticipated release date with "All I can say is that George is hard at work, and we hope to have it reasonably soon."

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:19 pm

It's been known for a while that GRRM planned a trilogy that quickly escalated. A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings were originally meant to be one book, for example. He split it up at the insistence of his editor/publisher, and was probably better off for it. As for the 7 vs 8 books thing, GRRM has said in previous interviews that his wife thinks he'll end up at 8 books and that she tends to be right, but that he still thinks he'll end up at 7. At this point I suspect he would rather compress parts of the story than write an 8th book.

JSHAW · Post by **JSHAW** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:38 pm

Every GRRM fan in the world better pray to their lucky stars that he doesn't have a heart attack and pass on to the next world.

He's not getting any younger, or thinner.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:41 pm

I know GRRM has said that no one will finish the series if he dies early.

But I'll bet HBO doesn't roll that way. There must be a contingency plot in place in case they need to finish the show without him. Has anything been confirmed about this?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:42 pm

It had been confirmed that the show will continue to the end regardless of book schedule. The show runners have already been briefed on the major characters'storylines.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:10 pm

Some clarification from the man himself:

“My plan is to finish in seven,” Martin says. “But my original plan was to finish in three. I write the stories and they grow. I deal with certain things and sometimes I find myself not at the end of a story. My plan right now is still seven. But first I have to finish Book Six. Get back to me when I’m half-way through Book Seven and then maybe I’ll tell you something more meaningful.”

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:15 pm

TiLT wrote:It's been known for a while that GRRM planned a trilogy that quickly escalated. A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings were originally meant to be one book, for example. He split it up at the insistence of his editor/publisher, and was probably better off for it. As for the 7 vs 8 books thing, GRRM has said in previous interviews that his wife thinks he'll end up at 8 books and that she tends to be right, but that he still thinks he'll end up at 7. At this point I suspect he would rather compress parts of the story than write an 8th book.

You are kidding about GRRM compressing anything, right.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:20 pm

Scuzz wrote:
TiLT wrote:It's been known for a while that GRRM planned a trilogy that quickly escalated. A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings were originally meant to be one book, for example. He split it up at the insistence of his editor/publisher, and was probably better off for it. As for the 7 vs 8 books thing, GRRM has said in previous interviews that his wife thinks he'll end up at 8 books and that she tends to be right, but that he still thinks he'll end up at 7. At this point I suspect he would rather compress parts of the story than write an 8th book.

You are kidding about GRRM compressing anything, right.

That's cute.

And no.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:28 pm

I think we will know when the 6th book comes out if there will be an 8th. There is no way short of killing off characters en masse that GRRM could wrap everything up in one book. He will need to start moving characters and the story to a certain head in book six if there will only be seven books.

Also, based on his prior books, I don't think he can compress his thoughts, or, if he does somehow, that he could maintain the style the previous books have established.

DD* · Post by DD* » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:35 pm

Take out the food descriptions and we're back at a trilogy. Problem solved.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:56 pm

GRRM has talked about the food thing, and it seems to be a very deliberate choice for him to include detailed descriptions of dishes. He doesn't just want to limit your imagination to sights and sounds, but wants to engage every one of your senses, including taste, touch and smell. The food brings you closer to the alien cultures you're observing through these books, and makes the whole experience more intimate.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:56 pm

DD* wrote:Take out the food descriptions and we're back at a trilogy. Problem solved.

And maybe have less walking around and talking. But definitely less gastrotourism of Westeros.

You could probably shorten things up by saying "and then the dragons showed up and killed everyone."

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:29 pm

Chaz wrote:
DD* wrote:Take out the food descriptions and we're back at a trilogy. Problem solved.
And maybe have less walking around and talking. But definitely less gastrotourism of Westeros.

You could probably shorten things up by saying "and then the dragons showed up and killed everyone."

Actually not a bad idea as long as everyone includes Daenerys Targaryn. Then there could be whole new Dragon Slayer trilogy in the same universe.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:44 pm

TiLT wrote:GRRM has talked about the food thing, and it seems to be a very deliberate choice for him to include detailed descriptions of dishes. He doesn't just want to limit your imagination to sights and sounds, but wants to engage every one of your senses, including taste, touch and smell. The food brings you closer to the alien cultures you're observing through these books, and makes the whole experience more intimate.

And he can sell cook books with Westeros dishes in it.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:48 pm

Can?

Does. And lets others.

DD* · Post by DD* » Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:32 pm

Lemon cakes are the new hair braids.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:05 pm

I always liked the phrase "fiery Dornish peppers."

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:41 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Can? Does. And lets others.

I was aware of that when i wrote my post.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:41 pm

DD* · Post by DD* » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:00 pm

Soon(?) book readers will complain about spoilers in the show...

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:14 pm

DD* wrote:Soon(?) book readers will complain about spoilers in the show...

No, GRRM will just declare the TV show is not "canon" and write whatever he wants in the final books, whether it jibes with the show or not.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:24 pm

Jeff V wrote:
DD* wrote:Soon(?) book readers will complain about spoilers in the show...
No, GRRM will just declare the TV show is not "canon" and write whatever he wants in the final books, whether it jibes with the show or not.

More or less, but both the books and the show are canon. GRRM simply considers them to be separate universes, both canon in their own right. He'll do his own thing, but not as a protest against the show's story in any way.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:42 pm

Jeff V wrote:
DD* wrote:Soon(?) book readers will complain about spoilers in the show...
No, GRRM will just declare the TV show is not "canon" and write whatever he wants in the final books, whether it jibes with the show or not.

He has said as much in interviews. He expects the show to finish before he does.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:23 pm

It's out!

And by "it" I mean a sample chapter, of course.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:28 pm

In a change from his previous "I'll announce it when it's out and mum's the word until then" policy, GRRM now seems to be predicting Spring 2016 for Winds of Winter.

Having The Winds of Winter published before season 6 of Thrones airs next spring “has been important to me all along,” says the best-selling New Mexico author. “I wish it was out now. Maybe I’m being overly optimistic about how quickly I can finish. But I canceled two convention appearances, I’m turning down a lot more interviews—anything I can do to clear my decks and get this done.”

Note: I'm not saying I believe him or I don't believe him, I'm just reporting what he said. I was kind of hoping for 2015, but I guess not.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:23 am

It's not close.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:37 am

Zaxxon wrote:It's not close.

That's not at all what he's saying. He's saying it's really close, but just not close enough that it'll be out before the next season of Game of Thrones. He thought he would be done with the book by October last year, then thought that at least getting it done by the end of 2015 was guaranteed. He failed to take into account that his inspiration reacts negatively to deadlines.

He's not saying "it's not close." He's saying it's months away. Not years. It's so close that just a few months ago (less than half a year, in fact), he felt confident that he'd be done right this moment. That's close. That's really F-ing close, even if it's not as close as we'd hoped.