The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Jeff V »

Archinerd wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:24 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:16 pm
2025! 30 years to write 7 books.
Still more books than I've written.
I'd prefer he just admit he's not going to do them though and move on. Get someone else to finish them and act as a consultant while he's still around.
You've done one so far? I bet you can wait until year 29 then crank out 6 more.

If he manages to survive to see these through, I'd like to read a post-mortem on why it took as long as it did. For all of it's moving parts, this is still a single story and the framework ought to have been in place before GoT was even written. So many story threads does add a degree of difficulty, but there are storyboarding techniques to keep track of such things and ensure they are both consistent with the rest of the story and intersect back with the main line one or more times. It seems very much like he's winging it without a really clear plan, as if he was expecting the story to write itself once he started telling it. That might work for simpler stories, but not this.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Archinerd wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:37 pm I suspect he has no real incentive to finish them.
He (presumably) knows how the story ends, doesn't need the money at this point, and is unlikely to live up to fan expectations. Much more exciting to work on other things.
That would be disappointing as hell. To think that he has created what is IMO, some of the best work of the genre (maybe the best), only to not finish it? Ugh. Granted, I already have gotten mucho enjoyment out of what he HAS published to date, so there's that, but egad, man, finish your Great Work!
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Jeff V »

I didn't really like the idea of making books 4&5 concurrent and splitting story lines. I suspect this made it harder to reign in all of the divergent threads. I don't follow his blog, but what I've seen over the years (particularly with ADwD) this became very hard work and he lost his passion for it. The decline in the quality of the books declined with the last two, so this struggle is apparent. I don't have high hopes for TWoW because the plodding pace of the project is further indication that the mojo simply isn't there. The best we can hope for is that he knows how this is all going down in the end...and once he's finally done with the book 6 setup, book 7 is far easier for him to write.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by coopasonic »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:44 pm
Archinerd wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:37 pm I suspect he has no real incentive to finish them.
He (presumably) knows how the story ends, doesn't need the money at this point, and is unlikely to live up to fan expectations. Much more exciting to work on other things.
That would be disappointing as hell. To think that he has created what is IMO, some of the best work of the genre (maybe the best), only to not finish it? Ugh. Granted, I already have gotten mucho enjoyment out of what he HAS published to date, so there's that, but egad, man, finish your Great Work!
Watching the ending in the show is enough for me. It's just been too long.

Rothfuss is heading into the same territory in my mind, 2007, 2011, ???
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

coopasonic wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:04 pm Rothfuss is heading into the same territory in my mind, 2007, 2011, ???
Profit?
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by coopasonic »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:40 pm
coopasonic wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:04 pm Rothfuss is heading into the same territory in my mind, 2007, 2011, ???
Profit?
Distraction, possibly fueled by profit.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Scuzz »

coopasonic wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:04 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:44 pm
Archinerd wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:37 pm I suspect he has no real incentive to finish them.
He (presumably) knows how the story ends, doesn't need the money at this point, and is unlikely to live up to fan expectations. Much more exciting to work on other things.
That would be disappointing as hell. To think that he has created what is IMO, some of the best work of the genre (maybe the best), only to not finish it? Ugh. Granted, I already have gotten mucho enjoyment out of what he HAS published to date, so there's that, but egad, man, finish your Great Work!
Watching the ending in the show is enough for me. It's just been too long.

Rothfuss is heading into the same territory in my mind, 2007, 2011, ???
Agreed. Rothfuss is headed in the same direction. He wrote himself into a corner with the second book in the series and probably can't figure out where to go from there. There is no way he concludes the series with the next book.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Zaxxon »

Scuzz wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:57 pmAgreed. Rothfuss is headed in the same direction. He wrote himself into a corner with the second book in the series and probably can't figure out where to go from there. There is no way he concludes the series with the next book.
Rothfuss's lack of progress has certainly been disturbing, but at least he's not putting out half a dozen other books each year. :) Which is of course GRRM's right.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Scuzz »

He has put out at least one new book and seems to show up at events all over the place. He will also work on either the TV show or movie based on the series, the TV show I think.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Jaymann »

They should hire Rothfuss to finish the GoT series!
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by $iljanus »

Scuzz wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:57 pm
coopasonic wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:04 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:44 pm
Archinerd wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:37 pm I suspect he has no real incentive to finish them.
He (presumably) knows how the story ends, doesn't need the money at this point, and is unlikely to live up to fan expectations. Much more exciting to work on other things.
That would be disappointing as hell. To think that he has created what is IMO, some of the best work of the genre (maybe the best), only to not finish it? Ugh. Granted, I already have gotten mucho enjoyment out of what he HAS published to date, so there's that, but egad, man, finish your Great Work!
Watching the ending in the show is enough for me. It's just been too long.

Rothfuss is heading into the same territory in my mind, 2007, 2011, ???
Agreed. Rothfuss is headed in the same direction. He wrote himself into a corner with the second book in the series and probably can't figure out where to go from there. There is no way he concludes the series with the next book.
Unfortunately the only memory I have now of the Rothfuss books is that of a boy with crushing student loans who becomes this rock star sword wielding sex machine but ends up tending bar in some dingy tavern, career on the rocks.

Maybe screenwriters will finish up the series when the tv series comes out like some other series I was reading... :think:
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Zarathud »

Jeff V wrote:If he manages to survive to see these through, I'd like to read a post-mortem on why it took as long as it did. For all of it's moving parts, this is still a single story and the framework ought to have been in place before GoT was even written.
GRRM is an editor. This is his Magnum Opus. He'll do it His Way, or Not At All.

GRRM has stated already that the story has changed as he wrote the characters and at times the key players have ended up in the wrong place from where he intended. So he had to change and rewrite.

I have heard the original version of the story didn't have dragons until a reader suggested that, if it was really a fantasy, it should have dragons. :)
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Wow, that's surprising. DId not realize he was so malleable wrt fan requests. In that case, I am requesting that he finish the series within the next 18-24 months.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

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Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:59 pm Wow, that's surprising. DId not realize he was so malleable wrt fan requests. In that case, I am requesting that he finish the series within the next 18-24 months.
You think that will work? :shock:
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Scuzz wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:00 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:59 pm Wow, that's surprising. DId not realize he was so malleable wrt fan requests. In that case, I am requesting that he finish the series within the next 18-24 months.
You think that will work? :shock:
If the dragon story is true, why not? Someone just needs to phrase it similarly: "a lot of people don't know this, Georgie old pal, but if your books are fantasy, they MUST have a proper ending. It's a thing, I swear!" :P
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by WYBaugh »

Unfortunately the only memory I have now of the Rothfuss books is that of a boy with crushing student loans who becomes this rock star sword wielding sex machine but ends up tending bar in some dingy tavern, career on the rocks.
I'm stealing this!
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Zarathud »

Let's just say these were uber nerds in a very exclusive book group. GRRM now listens to no one. ;)
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by DD* »

As a fan disappointing, never ending series writer, GRRM is a freaking amateur compared to David Gerrold and the Chtorr Series. “A Season for Slaughter” was published in 1993 and we are still waiting for book 5 (and Gerrold has regularly trolled fans over the years...)


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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Smoove_B »

George wanted to take time out of his schedule to reaffirm that it's not happening in 2018 (in case you didn't believe him a few months ago). But Fire and Blood will be released later this year:
Archmaester Gyldayn has at last completed and delivered the first half of his monumental history of the Targaryen kings of Westeros, FIRE & BLOOD, and Bantam Spectra and HarperCollins Voyager will be releasing the hardcover on November 20, I am thrilled to say.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Moliere »

After that gets released what will his next project be in order to avoid completing The Winds of Winter? How about editing another anthology of scifi/fantasy short stories. Or a prequel to the Egg book. All kinds of distractions are available.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Holman »

Sales page for Fire & Blood wrote:With all the scope and grandeur of Gibbon’s The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Fire and Blood is the ultimate game of thrones, giving readers a whole new appreciation for the dynamic, often bloody, and always fascinating history of Westeros.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Exodor »

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:35 pm George wanted to take time out of his schedule to reaffirm that it's not happening
Fixed that for you.


Enjoy the ending provided by the HBO series because it's the only conclusion we'll ever see to this story.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by El Guapo »

Moliere wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:02 pm After that gets released what will his next project be in order to avoid completing The Winds of Winter? How about editing another anthology of scifi/fantasy short stories. Or a prequel to the Egg book. All kinds of distractions are available.
Oh, don't worry - this is just *volume 1*. Fire and Blood is a two volume set, you see. GRRM is one step ahead of you.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

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George R.R. Martin Promises Fans ‘The Winds Of Winter’ Is Nearly Started
George R.R. Martin promised fans Thursday that his upcoming novel The Winds Of Winter was nearly started. “I wanted to let everyone know that I’m sitting at my desk with a nice cup of tea, I’ve got a Word document open, and I’m just about ready to go,” Martin wrote in a blog post on his website, assuring readers that as soon as he cleared off his desk and threw a load of laundry into the dryer, he could pretty much begin.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Moliere wrote: Fri May 18, 2018 7:32 pm George R.R. Martin Promises Fans ‘The Winds Of Winter’ Is Nearly Started
George R.R. Martin promised fans Thursday that his upcoming novel The Winds Of Winter was nearly started. “I wanted to let everyone know that I’m sitting at my desk with a nice cup of tea, I’ve got a Word document open, and I’m just about ready to go,” Martin wrote in a blog post on his website, assuring readers that as soon as he cleared off his desk and threw a load of laundry into the dryer, he could pretty much begin.
Literally laughed out loud at that headline. :D

And as a side note, damn anyone who posts in this thread without news of the GD book being finished. You get me all flummoxed and nervous when I see this thread revived.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by stessier »

I was just coming to post that. So depressing. Last book I read was the one with The Red Wedding. I (sadly) think I chose well.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Fitzy »

An amusing related anecdote, though it's possible I've told this one before. A couple years ago at Dragon Con I attended a panel with Brandon Sanderson and Jim Butcher (plus a couple others). I think the question was about Martin, though I forget exactly what it was. Sanderson started talking about the pressures of on time releases when Jim Butcher gives him this incredulous look and says basically that Sanderson has no idea about being late. Then he said, "I got to the airport, stopped at the bookstore and saw Sanderson had a new release, great! Got off the plane and stopped by the bookstore and look! Sanderson had released another book while I was in the air" or something along those lines. Sanderson looked sheepish. It was funnier in person. :lol:

Anyway.

I love A Song of Ice and Fire and I look forward to the next book. However, I long ago gave up caring about release dates. I just can't maintain the high level of anticipation for books anymore. Martin, Rothfuss, Lynch, Jordan back in the day, even the formally steady Jim Butcher all have books I will love when and if they come up, but I can't read every news article telling me about setbacks. Thanks to BookBub my normally heavy backlog is approaching "there's not enough time left in my life to read the books I've already bought" levels. I'll still purchase my favorites day one, but I'm not squeeing at every tidbit anymore.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

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GRRM has become my go-to every time I get annoyed with Elon Musk's inability to hit an initial deadline. I remember that GRRM has been working on tWoW since over a year before the Model S debuted (!) and before SpaceX had reached the ISS (!). And GRRM is writing a friggin' book, not changing the world.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Holman »

Closer to home: I started a brilliant and fun and insightful novel in 2003 that I haven't finished yet.

Suck it, GRRM!
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

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Oh, look, still not done, and GRRM is "struggling".
“I’ve been struggling with it for a few years,” he said. “The Winds of Winter is not so much a novel as a dozen novels, each with a different protagonist, each having a different cast of supporting players, antagonists, allies and lovers around them, and all of these weaving together against the march of time in an extremely complex fashion. So it’s very, very challenging.”

He added, “The show has achieved such popularity around the world, the books have been so popular and so well reviewed, that every time I sit down I’m very conscious I have to do something great, and trying to do something great is a considerable weight to bear. On the other hand, once I really get rolling, I get into the world. The rest of the world vanishes, and I don’t care what I’m having for dinner, what movies are on, what my email says or who’s mad at me this week because The Winds of Winter isn’t out”—sorry about that, George!—“all that is gone and I’m just living in the world I’m writing about. But it’s sometimes hard to get to that almost trance state.”

The good news is that the fire that’s perhaps been flickering these past several years is now burning brightly, as Martin says he’s making the book a priority. “The Winds of Winter is next,” he said, “then I’ll decide what comes after that – whether it’s to go on to A Dream of Spring, the last one, or whether I switch back into Fire and Blood II, do another Dunk and Egg story or two. But I’ll worry about that one thing at a time – that’s too far ahead.”
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Zaxxon »

And now we have a premiere date for the final HBO season--April. So it's pretty much assured now that tWoW will come out after HBO is completely done.

So not only did those who had 'HBO beats GRRM' win, but they won with a full book (at least) to spare.

Really, though, we all lose.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Zaxxon »

Maybe we now start taking bets on whether ADoS beats season five of the spin-out HBO series?
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Asharak »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:08 pm And now we have a premiere date for the final HBO season--April.
I got all excited until I realized that "April" was really all they announced. I mean, c'mon, "premiere month" is not a thing. What's next, an announcement to reveal the date that they'll launch the website that will have a countdown clock to the release of the teaser that will precede the trailer that will reveal the premiere date?

Marketing is ridiculous sometimes.

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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Zaxxon »

I mean, they did previously actually announce the release year, so... Next we'll get a week?
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Asharak »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:51 pm I mean, they did previously actually announce the release year, so... Next we'll get a week?
You forgot the fortnight (not the game) stage.

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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by pr0ner »

Looks like Martin has gone into seclusion in an attempt to get the book done.
Earlier this week, A Song Of Ice And Fire author/professional getting-yelled-at-by-the-internet man George R.R. Martin finally came clean about his struggles with finishing The Winds Of Winter, the sixth novel in the bestselling, franchise-launching book series. Now it sounds like he’s officially buckling down to get the thing done, with a new Wall Street Journal piece about his efforts to complete his latest book suggesting that he is “in hiding” and sequestered in a “remote mountain hideaway whose location he refuses to disclose.” It’s kind of like he’s some sort of villainous supervillain, if said villain’s plan was to finally figure out how the fuck to wrap up that Brienne/Lady Stoneheart cliffhanger from 13 goddamn years ago.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Moliere »



"George RR Martin asks Stephen King: "How do you write so Fast?!""
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Torfish »

Fascinating. Thanks for posting.
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Re: The Winds of Winter [GRRM] [NotDoneYet]

Post by Scuzz »

Moliere wrote: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:36 am

"George RR Martin asks Stephen King: "How do you write so Fast?!""
But Martin does seem to write other stuff, his problem is he is just stuck trying to finish one very important series.
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