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Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:17 pm
by ImLawBoy
I just don't know why they have to call something like this an IPA. For 20+ years, the American style of IPA has been synonymous with high hops bitterness (more notable in some beers than others, of course). With hazy/NE/juicy IPAs forgoing that (and apparently 0 IBU "IPAs" too), why not call it something different? Why not just a Hazy Pale Ale or something? I don't begrudge folks enjoying that style of beer, but I really don't care for it (I crave the bitterness!), and I've been fooled more than once when trying a new "IPA" that either doesn't state it's hazy or has it in the small print somewhere. It's a fundamentally different taste, and I can't help but think that brewers are just trying to latch onto the popularity of the IPA style by calling these beers IPAs when they really don't taste like an IPA.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm
by pr0ner
Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
by ImLawBoy
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:53 pm
by pr0ner
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.
I feel like they do by calling them NEIPAs or hazy IPAs.

And I say that as someone who enjoys a good bitter IPA like Jai Alai or Space Dust in addition to Heady Topper.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:58 pm
by ImLawBoy
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:53 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.
I feel like they do by calling them NEIPAs or hazy IPAs.

And I say that as someone who enjoys a good bitter IPA like Jai Alai or Space Dust in addition to Heady Topper.
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:17 pm I've been fooled more than once when trying a new "IPA" that either doesn't state it's hazy or has it in the small print somewhere.
Clear up the whole problem by calling it something other than an IPA, which, since it's not really an IPA by traditional definitions, should be easy enough.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:25 pm
by Rumpy
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.
I agree, which is why I thought it funny when I saw it on the shelf, along with it stating it was a light beer. It runs counter to the notion of what an IPA should be, and it's at that point where I feel a new style should be named because it's theoretically not an IPA.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:36 pm
by pr0ner
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:58 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:53 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.
I feel like they do by calling them NEIPAs or hazy IPAs.

And I say that as someone who enjoys a good bitter IPA like Jai Alai or Space Dust in addition to Heady Topper.
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:17 pm I've been fooled more than once when trying a new "IPA" that either doesn't state it's hazy or has it in the small print somewhere.
Clear up the whole problem by calling it something other than an IPA, which, since it's not really an IPA by traditional definitions, should be easy enough.
Well I've personally never had this problem - in fact, I've more likely had the other issue, where a brewery will brand something a Hazy or New England IPA and it's pretty obvious that it isn't one.

Also, Hazy IPAs officially got industry recognition in 2018 (along with Hazy Pale Ales), so changing their name any time soon will likely not happen.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:42 pm
by ImLawBoy
And me complaining about it likely isn't going to change any time soon, either. ;)

Hmmm. I think I'll brew a yellow beer and call it a "Golden Stout". That should be fun!

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:54 pm
by pr0ner
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:42 pm And me complaining about it likely isn't going to change any time soon, either. ;)

Hmmm. I think I'll brew a yellow beer and call it a "Golden Stout". That should be fun!
I'd try it if you do! :lol:

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:07 pm
by Rumpy
Guinness already has a Golden beer ;)

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:19 pm
by disarm
Rumpy wrote:Guinness already has a Golden beer ;)
And it's made in Baltimore!

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:33 pm
by ImLawBoy
disarm wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:19 pm
Rumpy wrote:Guinness already has a Golden beer ;)
And it's made in Baltimore!
And it's not called a Golden Stout!

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:52 pm
by Scuzz
I have really not become a fan of most Hazy or Juicy beers. I don't think they deliver like a good NEIPA or standard IPA.

I don't think I have run across a 0 IBU IPA, although it's possible I just didn't catch it if there really are that many out there.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm
by ImLawBoy
Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:49 pm
by Rumpy
disarm wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:19 pm
Rumpy wrote:Guinness already has a Golden beer ;)
And it's made in Baltimore!
Oh, it figures. The English would know better than to make a Golden Guiness :lol:

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:40 pm
by Kraken
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.
Lord Hobo (or was it Clown Shoes?) did a survey awhile back asking its customers which term they prefer.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:36 pm
by Rumpy
It's all blurry to me. I mean, at one point if you had an IPA, you knew what to expect. It was hoppy, somewhat bitter. Actually, more reminiscent of an English style Ale. These days breweries seem to throw terms around and I think even they get confused as to what they're making, so it's no wonder consumers are getting confused at all the different names.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:31 pm
by Jeff V
Rumpy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:36 pm It's all blurry to me. I mean, at one point if you had an IPA, you knew what to expect. It was hoppy, somewhat bitter. Actually, more reminiscent of an English style Ale. These days breweries seem to throw terms around and I think even they get confused as to what they're making, so it's no wonder consumers are getting confused at all the different names.
The traditional IPA is a British concoction, the heavy hops used to preserve the beer on long voyages between the British Isles and their colonial possessions in India.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:03 pm
by Rumpy
Yep, I know the story quite well.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:40 am
by Rumpy
Everyday Magic Hazy IPA by Sawdust City Brewing Co. I feel like I'm being introduced to a new set of hops that to my knowledge I haven't come across before. I'm familiar with Galaxy, but it also has Cashmere, Idaho 7, and Sabro hops.

Also, aside from the IBU, it lists 4-0P FG, 15-5P OG, and SRM 5. Does anyone know what those readings represent?

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:51 am
by Z-Corn
Rumpy wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:40 am Also, aside from the IBU, it lists 4-0P FG, 15-5P OG, and SRM 5. Does anyone know what those readings represent?
15-5P OG is 15 Plato Original Gravity
4-0P FG is 4 Plato Final Gravity
SRM Standard Reference Method is the beer color, very pale.

Original Gravity is how much sugar was in the beer before it fermented to the Final Gravity. You can determine alcohol content by subtracting the FG from the OG.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:52 am
by Jeff V
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.
I've had some hazy IPAs that were deliciously bitter. Mostly the "hazy" is just an adjective for unfiltered.

They should maybe call the 0-IBU ones "fruit cocktails."

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:40 am
by ImLawBoy
Jeff V wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:52 am
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.
I've had some hazy IPAs that were deliciously bitter. Mostly the "hazy" is just an adjective for unfiltered.

They should maybe call the 0-IBU ones "fruit cocktails."
Part of the problem. My understanding is that unfiltered does not equal hazy (despite appearances to the contrary). I wouldn't have an issue with an unfiltered IPA that doesn't use the technique that removes the bitterness.

From Wikipedia:
New England IPA

New England IPAs (also referred to as Hazy IPA or Juicy IPA) are a style of IPA invented by The Alchemist's John Kimmich with his beer, Heady Topper.[44] They are characterized by juicy, citrus, and floral flavours, with an emphasis on hop aroma with low bitterness. They also have a smooth consistency or mouthfeel, and a hazy appearance. These characteristics are achieved using a combination of brewing techniques, including the use of particular strains of yeast, the timing of adding the hops, and adjusting the chemistry of the water.[45][46][47][48] The style has become popular among New England brewers. New England IPAs need not be brewed in New England.[49] It was officially recognized as a separate beer style, the Juicy or Hazy India Pale Ale, by the Brewers Association in 2018.[50][51] A variation on the style is the milkshake IPA, which adds lactose to make a New England IPA more creamy.[52]
From Beer Advocate:
IPA - New England
Emphasizing hop aroma and flavor without bracing bitterness, the New England IPA leans heavily on late and dry hopping techniques to deliver a bursting juicy, tropical hop experience. The skillful balance of technique and ingredient selection, often including the addition of wheat or oats, lends an alluring haze to this popular take on the American IPA.
Note that neither definition uses whether or not the beer was filtered. A cloudy, unfiltered IPA that doesn't use the techniques/ingredients required to create a true NEIPA should just be considered an unfiltered IPA. Again, giving it an unrelated name without "IPA" in the title would avoid the whole issue.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:15 am
by pr0ner
Jeff V wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:52 am
ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.
I've had some hazy IPAs that were deliciously bitter. Mostly the "hazy" is just an adjective for unfiltered.

They should maybe call the 0-IBU ones "fruit cocktails."
A 0-IBU IPA is *not* a fruit cocktail.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:01 pm
by Rumpy
Z-Corn wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:51 am
Rumpy wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:40 am Also, aside from the IBU, it lists 4-0P FG, 15-5P OG, and SRM 5. Does anyone know what those readings represent?
15-5P OG is 15 Plato Original Gravity
4-0P FG is 4 Plato Final Gravity
SRM Standard Reference Method is the beer color, very pale.

Original Gravity is how much sugar was in the beer before it fermented to the Final Gravity. You can determine alcohol content by subtracting the FG from the OG.
Oh ok. I had never come across a beer that listed all of that on it.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:48 pm
by Alefroth
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm Sorry for coming across as a bit curt with you there if I did but I would highly recommend trying it. You'll likely get all the IPA flavor and zero bitterness.
Frankly, that sounds awful. Talk about an unbalanced beer. And why do they think it needs to be called an IPA? Is IPA just synonymous for beer these days?

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:05 pm
by ImLawBoy
Alefroth wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:48 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm Sorry for coming across as a bit curt with you there if I did but I would highly recommend trying it. You'll likely get all the IPA flavor and zero bitterness.
Frankly, that sounds awful. Talk about an unbalanced beer. And why do they think it needs to be called an IPA? Is IPA just synonymous for beer these days?
It's not my cup of tea (pint of beer), but I don't have a problem with pr0ner or anyone else enjoying it. I don't agree with pr0ner that a beer with zero bitterness has "all the IPA flavor", because bitterness is a key flavor component of an IPA. But if someone likes a fruity/juicy/tropical/pick your adjective style beer without bitterness, they're welcome to them.

But I certainly agree with you on the point about the naming convention (as I've been going on about for some time now).

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:16 pm
by Alefroth
ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:05 pm
Alefroth wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:48 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm Sorry for coming across as a bit curt with you there if I did but I would highly recommend trying it. You'll likely get all the IPA flavor and zero bitterness.
Frankly, that sounds awful. Talk about an unbalanced beer. And why do they think it needs to be called an IPA? Is IPA just synonymous for beer these days?
It's not my cup of tea (pint of beer), but I don't have a problem with pr0ner or anyone else enjoying it. I don't agree with pr0ner that a beer with zero bitterness has "all the IPA flavor", because bitterness is a key flavor component of an IPA. But if someone likes a fruity/juicy/tropical/pick your adjective style beer without bitterness, they're welcome to them.

But I certainly agree with you on the point about the naming convention (as I've been going on about for some time now).
Boy do I feel silly. Missed the entire page of discussion about this. At any rate, I wasn't implying pr0ner couldn't enjoy it.

Regarding the naming, here's a quote from the brewer at Twin Sails who are making one-
“Some people laughed and said this isn’t an IPA, and we said we never called it an IPA, we called it a zero IBU IPA.
What a tool.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:07 pm
by Daehawk

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:20 pm
by AWS260
Folksbier Shadow Tricks. Imperial stout with lots of vanilla. Delish.

Image

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:25 pm
by Jeff V
Season flipped from spring to inferno overnight so I'm stuck with a little more than a handful of stouts that I just can't drink right now.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:22 pm
by Kraken
What Beer Sales Tell Us About the Recession
Craft beer sales are surging at stores, but craft breweries are still struggling. Cheap beer is surging, but it's still losing market share. That's because the economics of the beer business are complicated. (And that's before you start drinking.) But the beer business can tell us a lot about the last two recessions.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:19 pm
by AWS260
Any of you guys in Chicago want to buy a brewery?
In addition to missed connections, used cars and concert tickets (RIP), Craigslist has a particularly unique offering at the moment: a Chicago brewery.

Argus Brewery, which quietly stopped operating on Chicago’s Far South Side in late March, is available on the people’s internet marketplace for $2.5 million.

Included in sale: the 9,700-square-foot building in the Roseland neighborhood, brewing equipment, furniture, electronics, a delivery van and Argus’ intellectual property.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:55 pm
by Jeff V
That "intellectual property" is pretty worthless, their beer wasn't that good. Never found an Argus beer I liked well enough to drink more than once. In a city with tons of innovative breweries, they seemed afraid to stray too far away from mass-market taste profiles.

While the brewery itself could be repurposed for better beer, this just isn't a good time to invest in any business that requires packed bars and restaurants to thrive. When the Seben's brewery closed back in the 90's, they had a general auction of everything, and since it was on my way to work, I took a pre-auction tour and was amazed by the scope of the operation, the basement was lined with storage tanks. This was near the start of the craft beer craze and most smaller breweries hadn't yet started bottling or canning their wares.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:01 pm
by Rumpy
Yeah, one brewery that kicked things off in our city explained that they almost had to close the business due to the pandemic and they also have a brewpub, so that nearly axed their additional income. They very nearly called it quits but shifted their strategy to offering takeout which probably saved them.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:56 pm
by pr0ner
ImLawBoy wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:05 pm
Alefroth wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:48 pm
pr0ner wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm Sorry for coming across as a bit curt with you there if I did but I would highly recommend trying it. You'll likely get all the IPA flavor and zero bitterness.
Frankly, that sounds awful. Talk about an unbalanced beer. And why do they think it needs to be called an IPA? Is IPA just synonymous for beer these days?
It's not my cup of tea (pint of beer), but I don't have a problem with pr0ner or anyone else enjoying it. I don't agree with pr0ner that a beer with zero bitterness has "all the IPA flavor", because bitterness is a key flavor component of an IPA. But if someone likes a fruity/juicy/tropical/pick your adjective style beer without bitterness, they're welcome to them.

But I certainly agree with you on the point about the naming convention (as I've been going on about for some time now).
I saw this article on the really good beer site October called "Here's Why You Hate Hazy IPAs" that I thought you (and a couple of others who are on the no Hazy side) might find interesting.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:26 pm
by ImLawBoy
While it's an interesting article, it could have done with a less condescending headline. I'm not some beer newbie who doesn't know about beer quality and variations. I've had what they note as an exemplar of the style (King Sue from Toppling Goliath) and I didn't like it. It's not because of hop burn. It's because I want bitterness out of my IPAs.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:33 pm
by pr0ner
ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:26 pm While it's an interesting article, it could have done with a less condescending headline. I'm not some beer newbie who doesn't know about beer quality and variations. I've had what they note as an exemplar of the style (King Sue from Toppling Goliath) and I didn't like it. It's not because of hop burn. It's because I want bitterness out of my IPAs.
It is definitely a bad headline. It's only the word "Explained" away from being a terrible Vox.com headline.

Hop burn is definitely a thing. But you're right, if you want bitter out of your IPAs, hazy is not the way to go!

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:19 pm
by Jeff V
Fantastic Haze by Sierra Nevada, Chico, CA. Sierra Nevada's Hazy Little Thing is something I'll pick up on sale, a decent, but unremarkable NEIPA. Now they are trying to crank it up a notch, and the result is a decent, but unremarkable DNEIPA. Fruit flavors are very muted, and bitterness seems to come from yeast that is much more flavorful than it should be (40 IBU so it has some bitterness, just no bite at the end). 9% IPA is decent (but unremarkable) for a DIPA. Without more flavor, it's hard to justify the premium price (on sale for $12/6).

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:20 pm
by pr0ner
For the non-JeffV's of the world who don't need super high ABV in every beer they drink, Popular Mechanics has a list of ten low-cal (around 100 calories per can) IPAs to try.

Out of the ones on the list, Flyjack 96 is the best Hazy (Oskar Blue's One-y is okay, but I wouldn't go out of my way for it), and Slightly Mighty is the best regular IPA. I do need to try Bell's Light Hearted at some point, but since the state of Virginia and Bell's aren't on speaking terms right now, it might be a bit before I can easily find it. Goose Island So-Lo sounds good, too, but I haven't seen that here either.