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Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:17 pm
by ImLawBoy
I just don't know why they have to call something like this an IPA. For 20+ years, the American style of IPA has been synonymous with high hops bitterness (more notable in some beers than others, of course). With hazy/NE/juicy IPAs forgoing that (and apparently 0 IBU "IPAs" too), why not call it something different? Why not just a Hazy Pale Ale or something? I don't begrudge folks enjoying that style of beer, but I really don't care for it (I crave the bitterness!), and I've been fooled more than once when trying a new "IPA" that either doesn't state it's hazy or has it in the small print somewhere. It's a fundamentally different taste, and I can't help but think that brewers are just trying to latch onto the popularity of the IPA style by calling these beers IPAs when they really don't taste like an IPA.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm
by pr0ner
Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
by ImLawBoy
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm
Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:53 pm
by pr0ner
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm
Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.
I feel like they do by calling them NEIPAs or hazy IPAs.

And I say that as someone who enjoys a good bitter IPA like Jai Alai or Space Dust in addition to Heady Topper.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:58 pm
by ImLawBoy
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:53 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm
Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.
I feel like they do by calling them NEIPAs or hazy IPAs.

And I say that as someone who enjoys a good bitter IPA like Jai Alai or Space Dust in addition to Heady Topper.
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:17 pm
I've been fooled more than once when trying a new "IPA" that either doesn't state it's hazy or has it in the small print somewhere.
Clear up the whole problem by calling it something other than an IPA, which, since it's not really an IPA by traditional definitions, should be easy enough.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:25 pm
by Rumpy
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm
Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.
I agree, which is why I thought it funny when I saw it on the shelf, along with it stating it was a light beer. It runs counter to the notion of what an IPA should be, and it's at that point where I feel a new style should be named because it's theoretically not an IPA.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:36 pm
by pr0ner
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:58 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:53 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:37 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:28 pm
Hazy Pale Ales are a thing, so a 0 IBU IPA can't fall in that market.
That's missing the forest for the trees. My point is that they should categorize all of these pseudo IPAs as something other than IPAs since they're fundamentally different from IPAs.
I feel like they do by calling them NEIPAs or hazy IPAs.

And I say that as someone who enjoys a good bitter IPA like Jai Alai or Space Dust in addition to Heady Topper.
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:17 pm
I've been fooled more than once when trying a new "IPA" that either doesn't state it's hazy or has it in the small print somewhere.
Clear up the whole problem by calling it something other than an IPA, which, since it's not really an IPA by traditional definitions, should be easy enough.
Well I've personally never had this problem - in fact, I've more likely had the other issue, where a brewery will brand something a Hazy or New England IPA and it's pretty obvious that it isn't one.

Also, Hazy IPAs officially got industry recognition in 2018 (along with Hazy Pale Ales), so changing their name any time soon will likely not happen.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:42 pm
by ImLawBoy
And me complaining about it likely isn't going to change any time soon, either. ;)

Hmmm. I think I'll brew a yellow beer and call it a "Golden Stout". That should be fun!

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:54 pm
by pr0ner
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:42 pm
And me complaining about it likely isn't going to change any time soon, either. ;)

Hmmm. I think I'll brew a yellow beer and call it a "Golden Stout". That should be fun!
I'd try it if you do! :lol:

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:07 pm
by Rumpy
Guinness already has a Golden beer ;)

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:19 pm
by disarm
Rumpy wrote:Guinness already has a Golden beer ;)
And it's made in Baltimore!

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:33 pm
by ImLawBoy
disarm wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:19 pm
Rumpy wrote:Guinness already has a Golden beer ;)
And it's made in Baltimore!
And it's not called a Golden Stout!

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:52 pm
by Scuzz
I have really not become a fan of most Hazy or Juicy beers. I don't think they deliver like a good NEIPA or standard IPA.

I don't think I have run across a 0 IBU IPA, although it's possible I just didn't catch it if there really are that many out there.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm
by ImLawBoy
Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:49 pm
by Rumpy
disarm wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:19 pm
Rumpy wrote:Guinness already has a Golden beer ;)
And it's made in Baltimore!
Oh, it figures. The English would know better than to make a Golden Guiness :lol:

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:40 pm
by Kraken
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm
Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.
Lord Hobo (or was it Clown Shoes?) did a survey awhile back asking its customers which term they prefer.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:36 pm
by Rumpy
It's all blurry to me. I mean, at one point if you had an IPA, you knew what to expect. It was hoppy, somewhat bitter. Actually, more reminiscent of an English style Ale. These days breweries seem to throw terms around and I think even they get confused as to what they're making, so it's no wonder consumers are getting confused at all the different names.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:31 pm
by Jeff V
Rumpy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:36 pm
It's all blurry to me. I mean, at one point if you had an IPA, you knew what to expect. It was hoppy, somewhat bitter. Actually, more reminiscent of an English style Ale. These days breweries seem to throw terms around and I think even they get confused as to what they're making, so it's no wonder consumers are getting confused at all the different names.
The traditional IPA is a British concoction, the heavy hops used to preserve the beer on long voyages between the British Isles and their colonial possessions in India.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:03 pm
by Rumpy
Yep, I know the story quite well.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:40 am
by Rumpy
Everyday Magic Hazy IPA by Sawdust City Brewing Co. I feel like I'm being introduced to a new set of hops that to my knowledge I haven't come across before. I'm familiar with Galaxy, but it also has Cashmere, Idaho 7, and Sabro hops.

Also, aside from the IBU, it lists 4-0P FG, 15-5P OG, and SRM 5. Does anyone know what those readings represent?

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:51 am
by Z-Corn
Rumpy wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:40 am
Also, aside from the IBU, it lists 4-0P FG, 15-5P OG, and SRM 5. Does anyone know what those readings represent?
15-5P OG is 15 Plato Original Gravity
4-0P FG is 4 Plato Final Gravity
SRM Standard Reference Method is the beer color, very pale.

Original Gravity is how much sugar was in the beer before it fermented to the Final Gravity. You can determine alcohol content by subtracting the FG from the OG.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:52 am
by Jeff V
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm
Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.
I've had some hazy IPAs that were deliciously bitter. Mostly the "hazy" is just an adjective for unfiltered.

They should maybe call the 0-IBU ones "fruit cocktails."

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:40 am
by ImLawBoy
Jeff V wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:52 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm
Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.
I've had some hazy IPAs that were deliciously bitter. Mostly the "hazy" is just an adjective for unfiltered.

They should maybe call the 0-IBU ones "fruit cocktails."
Part of the problem. My understanding is that unfiltered does not equal hazy (despite appearances to the contrary). I wouldn't have an issue with an unfiltered IPA that doesn't use the technique that removes the bitterness.

From Wikipedia:
New England IPA

New England IPAs (also referred to as Hazy IPA or Juicy IPA) are a style of IPA invented by The Alchemist's John Kimmich with his beer, Heady Topper.[44] They are characterized by juicy, citrus, and floral flavours, with an emphasis on hop aroma with low bitterness. They also have a smooth consistency or mouthfeel, and a hazy appearance. These characteristics are achieved using a combination of brewing techniques, including the use of particular strains of yeast, the timing of adding the hops, and adjusting the chemistry of the water.[45][46][47][48] The style has become popular among New England brewers. New England IPAs need not be brewed in New England.[49] It was officially recognized as a separate beer style, the Juicy or Hazy India Pale Ale, by the Brewers Association in 2018.[50][51] A variation on the style is the milkshake IPA, which adds lactose to make a New England IPA more creamy.[52]
From Beer Advocate:
IPA - New England
Emphasizing hop aroma and flavor without bracing bitterness, the New England IPA leans heavily on late and dry hopping techniques to deliver a bursting juicy, tropical hop experience. The skillful balance of technique and ingredient selection, often including the addition of wheat or oats, lends an alluring haze to this popular take on the American IPA.
Note that neither definition uses whether or not the beer was filtered. A cloudy, unfiltered IPA that doesn't use the techniques/ingredients required to create a true NEIPA should just be considered an unfiltered IPA. Again, giving it an unrelated name without "IPA" in the title would avoid the whole issue.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:15 am
by pr0ner
Jeff V wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:52 am
ImLawBoy wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:58 pm
Hazy IPA = Juicy IPA = NEIPA. They're just different names for the same style.
I've had some hazy IPAs that were deliciously bitter. Mostly the "hazy" is just an adjective for unfiltered.

They should maybe call the 0-IBU ones "fruit cocktails."
A 0-IBU IPA is *not* a fruit cocktail.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:01 pm
by Rumpy
Z-Corn wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:51 am
Rumpy wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:40 am
Also, aside from the IBU, it lists 4-0P FG, 15-5P OG, and SRM 5. Does anyone know what those readings represent?
15-5P OG is 15 Plato Original Gravity
4-0P FG is 4 Plato Final Gravity
SRM Standard Reference Method is the beer color, very pale.

Original Gravity is how much sugar was in the beer before it fermented to the Final Gravity. You can determine alcohol content by subtracting the FG from the OG.
Oh ok. I had never come across a beer that listed all of that on it.

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:48 pm
by Alefroth
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm
Sorry for coming across as a bit curt with you there if I did but I would highly recommend trying it. You'll likely get all the IPA flavor and zero bitterness.
Frankly, that sounds awful. Talk about an unbalanced beer. And why do they think it needs to be called an IPA? Is IPA just synonymous for beer these days?

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:05 pm
by ImLawBoy
Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:48 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm
Sorry for coming across as a bit curt with you there if I did but I would highly recommend trying it. You'll likely get all the IPA flavor and zero bitterness.
Frankly, that sounds awful. Talk about an unbalanced beer. And why do they think it needs to be called an IPA? Is IPA just synonymous for beer these days?
It's not my cup of tea (pint of beer), but I don't have a problem with pr0ner or anyone else enjoying it. I don't agree with pr0ner that a beer with zero bitterness has "all the IPA flavor", because bitterness is a key flavor component of an IPA. But if someone likes a fruity/juicy/tropical/pick your adjective style beer without bitterness, they're welcome to them.

But I certainly agree with you on the point about the naming convention (as I've been going on about for some time now).

Re: Whatcha drinking?

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:16 pm
by Alefroth
ImLawBoy wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:05 pm
Alefroth wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:48 pm
pr0ner wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:27 pm
Sorry for coming across as a bit curt with you there if I did but I would highly recommend trying it. You'll likely get all the IPA flavor and zero bitterness.
Frankly, that sounds awful. Talk about an unbalanced beer. And why do they think it needs to be called an IPA? Is IPA just synonymous for beer these days?
It's not my cup of tea (pint of beer), but I don't have a problem with pr0ner or anyone else enjoying it. I don't agree with pr0ner that a beer with zero bitterness has "all the IPA flavor", because bitterness is a key flavor component of an IPA. But if someone likes a fruity/juicy/tropical/pick your adjective style beer without bitterness, they're welcome to them.

But I certainly agree with you on the point about the naming convention (as I've been going on about for some time now).
Boy do I feel silly. Missed the entire page of discussion about this. At any rate, I wasn't implying pr0ner couldn't enjoy it.

Regarding the naming, here's a quote from the brewer at Twin Sails who are making one-
“Some people laughed and said this isn’t an IPA, and we said we never called it an IPA, we called it a zero IBU IPA.
What a tool.